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View Full Version : China setting up to challenge America?



Hugh Jardon
06-26-2005, 08:53 PM
China's all consuming need for resources may just ensure it.



Army of the future
In the past, some defense specialists insisted a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be a "million-man swim" across the Taiwan Strait because of the country's lack of troop-carrying ships.
"We left the million-man swim behind in about 1998, 1999," the senior Pentagon official said. "And in fact, what people are saying now, whether or not that construct was ever useful, is that it's a moot point, because in just amphibious lift alone, the Chinese are doubling or even quadrupling their capability on an annual basis."
Asked about a possible Chinese attack on Taiwan, the official put it bluntly: "In the '07-'08 time frame, a capability will be there that a year ago we would have said was very, very unlikely. We now assess that as being very likely to be there."
Air Force Gen. Paul V. Hester, head of the Pacific Air Forces, said the U.S. military has been watching China's military buildup but has found it difficult to penetrate Beijing's "veil" of secrecy over it.
While military modernization itself is not a major worry, "what does provide you a pause for interest and concern is the amount of modernization, the kind of modernization and the size of the modernization," he said during a recent breakfast meeting with reporters.
China is building capabilities such as aerial refueling and airborne warning and control aircraft that can be used for regional defense and long-range power projection, Gen. Hester said.
It also is developing a maneuverable re-entry vehicle, or MARV, for its nuclear warheads. The weapon is designed to counter U.S. strategic-missile defenses, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The warhead would be used on China's new DF-31 long-range missiles and its new submarine missile, the JL-2.
Work being done on China's weapons and reconnaissance systems will give its military the capability to reach 1,000 miles into the sea, "which gives them the visibility on the movement of not only our airplanes in the air, but also our forces at sea," Gen. Hester said.
Beijing also has built a new tank for its large armed forces. It is known as the Type 99 and appears similar in design to Germany's Leopard 2 main battle tank. The tank is outfitted with new artillery, anti-aircraft and machine guns, advanced fire-control systems and improved engines.
The country's air power is growing through the purchase of new fighters from Russia, such as Su-30 fighter-bombers, as well as the development of its own fighter jets, such as the J-10.
Gen. Hester compared Chinese warplanes with those of the former Soviet Union, which were less capable than their U.S. counterparts, but still very deadly.
"They have great equipment. The fighters are very technologically advanced, and what we know about them gives us pause for concern against ours," he said.
Missiles also are a worry.
"It is their surface-to-air missiles, their [advanced] SAMs and their surface-to-surface missiles, and the precision, more importantly, of those surface-to-surface missiles that provide, obviously, the ability to pinpoint targets that we might have out in the region, or our friends and allies might have," Gen. Hester said.
The advances give the Chinese military "the ability ... to reach out and touch parts of the United States -- Guam, Hawaii and the mainland of the United States," he said.
To better deal with possible future conflicts in Asia, the Pentagon is modernizing U.S. military facilities on the Western Pacific island of Guam and planning to move more forces there.
The Air Force will regularly rotate Air Expeditionary Force units to Guam and also will station the new long-range unmanned aerial vehicle known as Global Hawk on the island, he said.
It also has stationed B-2 stealth bombers on Guam temporarily and is expected to deploy B-1 bombers there, in addition to the B-52s now deployed there, Gen. Hester said.

Projecting power
China's rulers have adopted what is known as the "two-island chain" strategy of extending control over large areas of the Pacific, covering inner and outer chains of islands stretching from Japan to Indonesia.
"Clearly, they are still influenced by this first and second island chain," the intelligence official said.
The official said China's buildup goes beyond what would be needed to fight a war against Taiwan.
The conclusion of this official is that China wants a "blue-water" navy capable of projecting power far beyond the two island chains.
"If you look at the technical capabilities of the weapons platforms that they're fielding, the sea-keeping capabilities, the size, sensors and weapons fit, this capability transcends the baseline that is required to deal with a Taiwan situation militarily," the intelligence official said.
"So they are positioned then, if [Taiwan is] resolved one way or the other, to really become a regional military power as well."
The dispatch of a Han-class submarine late last year to waters near Guam, Taiwan and Japan was an indication of the Chinese military's drive to expand its oceangoing capabilities, the officials said. The submarine surfaced in Japanese waters, triggering an emergency deployment of Japan's naval forces.
Beijing later issued an apology for the incursion, but the political damage was done. Within months, Japan began adopting a tougher political posture toward China in its defense policies and public statements. A recent Japanese government defense report called China a strategic national security concern. It was the first time China was named specifically in a Japanese defense report.

Energy supply a factor
For China, Taiwan is not the only issue behind the buildup of military forces. Beijing also is facing a major energy shortage that, according to one Pentagon study, could lead it to use military force to seize territory with oil and gas resources.
The report produced for the Office of Net Assessment, which conducts assessments of future threats, was made public in January and warned that China's need for oil, gas and other energy resources is driving the country toward becoming an expansionist power.
China "is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sea lanes [from the Middle East], but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the U.S. Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan," the report said.
The report said China believes the United States already controls the sea routes from the oil-rich Persian Gulf through the Malacca Strait. Chinese President Hu Jintao has called this strategic vulnerability to disrupted energy supplies Beijing's "Malacca Dilemma."
To prevent any disruption, China has adopted a "string of pearls" strategy that calls for both offensive and defensive measures stretching along the oil-shipment sea lanes from China's coast to the Middle East.
The "pearls" include the Chinese-financed seaport being built at Gwadar, on the coast of western Pakistan, and commercial and military efforts to establish bases or diplomatic ties in Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Thailand and disputed islands in the South China Sea.
The report stated that China's ability to use these pearls for a "credible" military action is not certain.
Pentagon intelligence officials, however, say the rapid Chinese naval buildup includes the capability to project power to these sea lanes in the future.
"They are not doing a lot of surface patrols or any other kind of security evolutions that far afield," the intelligence official said. "There's no evidence of [Chinese military basing there] yet, but we do need to keep an eye toward that expansion."
The report also highlighted the vulnerability of China's oil and gas infrastructure to a crippling U.S. attack.
"The U.S. military could severely cripple Chinese resistance [during a conflict over Taiwan] by blocking its energy supply, whereas the [People's Liberation Army navy] poses little threat to United States' energy security," it said.
China views the United States as "a potential threat because of its military superiority, its willingness to disrupt China's energy imports, its perceived encirclement of China and its disposition toward manipulating international politics," the report said.

'Mercantilist measures'
The report stated that China will resort "to extreme, offensive and mercantilist measures when other strategies fail, to mitigate its vulnerabilities, such as seizing control of energy resources in neighboring states."
U.S. officials have said two likely targets for China are the Russian Far East, which has vast oil and gas deposits, and Southeast Asia, which also has oil and gas resources.
Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon official and specialist on China's military, said the internal U.S. government debate on the issue and excessive Chinese secrecy about its military buildup "has cost us 10 years to figure out what to do"
"Everybody is starting to acknowledge the hard facts," Mr. Pillsbury said. "The China military buildup has been accelerating since 1999. As the buildup has gotten worse, China is trying hard to mask it."
Richard Fisher, vice president of the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that in 10 years, the Chinese army has shifted from a defensive force to an advanced military soon capable of operations ranging from space warfare to global non-nuclear cruise-missile strikes.
"Let's all wake up. The post-Cold War peace is over," Mr. Fisher said. "We are now in an arms race with a new superpower whose goal is to contain and overtake the United States."

NicNZ
06-26-2005, 09:03 PM
China setting up to challenge America?

Well duh

Good article though, thank you for posting.

b33f
06-26-2005, 09:11 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52414

Hugh Jardon
06-26-2005, 09:53 PM
Gotta look harder or take more time. It caught my eye though.

usa320
06-26-2005, 11:27 PM
Meh. A half dozen B-2's can end that challenge in a hurry.

Lokos
06-27-2005, 12:30 AM
Meh. A half dozen B-2's can end that challenge in a hurry.

That's as silly as this alarmist article.

Lokos

SS1983
06-27-2005, 12:36 AM
Meh. A half dozen B-2's can end that challenge in a hurry.

That's as silly as this alarmist article.

Lokos rofl rofl rofl

NicNZ
06-27-2005, 01:39 AM
Get used to it Lokos, the US doesnt wait for enemies to appear, it goes looking for them ;)

highlander653
06-27-2005, 04:14 AM
Get used to it Lokos, the US doesnt wait for enemies to appear, it goes looking for them ;)

IMO the US is going a step beyond that, making enemies around the global when the bad guy fails to appear.

ROY H
06-27-2005, 06:08 AM
Get used to it Lokos, the US doesnt wait for enemies to appear, it goes looking for them ;)

IMO the US is going a step beyond that, making enemies around the global when the bad guy fails to appear.

Yes, starting with you I am going to come to your house poor oil on your baby and eat it, than I will listen to some evil American country western music. Last but not least I will drive off in my Ford F-1944000 gas guzzling truck. Nuke Amerikan!

ROY H
06-27-2005, 06:14 AM
Get used to it Lokos, the US doesnt wait for enemies to appear, it goes looking for them ;)

Yeah those Amerikan son of a bitches where lookin for it on Sept the 11th huh? The scary thing about people like you, is that you probably actually believe your distorted fallacies.

Moledet
06-27-2005, 06:19 AM
What's with defending Taiwan with the US military? Arm them but let them fight for themself. I don't expect and don't want the US military to fight for me, I can't see why any country should.

ROY H
06-27-2005, 06:42 AM
What's with defending Taiwan with the US military? Arm them but let them fight for themself. I don't expect and don't want the US military to fight for me, I can't see why any country should.

Taiwan broke off from China to be free and have that privilege, the USA supports democracy and has seen what great things it has done in the world so we support that. The US wants democracy to flourish, in all areas of the world of this vast planet.

Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


We give aid to your country and are socalled "allies", even know this is detrimental to our status in the middle East and alienates us even more as the Jew loving Christian westerners. Why do we do this? Becuase the USA supports democracy and we firmly see that it produces successful nations, nothing like capitalism and democracy.

We would go to bat for the Taiwanese or any other allies that need help.

Flagg
06-27-2005, 07:21 AM
What's with defending Taiwan with the US military? Arm them but let them fight for themself. I don't expect and don't want the US military to fight for me, I can't see why any country should.

Taiwan broke off from China to be free and have that privilege, the USA supports democracy and has seen what great things it has done in the world so we support that. The US wants democracy to flourish, in all areas of the world of this vast planet.

Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


We give aid to your country and are socalled "allies", even know this is detrimental to our status in the middle East and alienates us even more as the Jew loving Christian westerners. Why do we do this? Becuase the USA supports democracy and we firmly see that it produces successful nations, nothing like capitalism and democracy.


We would go to bat for the Taiwanese or any other allies that need help.

I don't mean to bust your stones, nor do I wish to go off topic, but I can't help it.

Taiwan was far from a Democracy, it was a corrupt dictatorship...it may have developed the vaneer of a democracry, and finally into a democracy......but it's a relatively recent development......similiar situation in South Korea.......less recent, but similiar situation in Japan as well....all historical allies of the US, all possessing quite sordid post WWII/Korean War pasts.

The irony of your post when considering the fact that our "ally" Pakistan is a nuclear armed dictatorship and it's neighbor Iran, possessing a much more democratic(if not less corrupt) system of government, is a member of the "axis of evil."

In actual fact, the US, as well as MANY other nations, continue to conduct business with thugs carrying diplomatic immunity.

Democracy is a word....commerce is king

Moledet
06-27-2005, 07:25 AM
What's with defending Taiwan with the US military? Arm them but let them fight for themself. I don't expect and don't want the US military to fight for me, I can't see why any country should.

Taiwan broke off from China to be free and have that privilege, the USA supports democracy and has seen what great things it has done in the world so we support that. The US wants democracy to flourish, in all areas of the world of this vast planet.

Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


We give aid to your country and are socalled "allies", even know this is detrimental to our status in the middle East and alienates us even more as the Jew loving Christian westerners. Why do we do this? Becuase the USA supports democracy and we firmly see that it produces successful nations, nothing like capitalism and democracy.

We would go to bat for the Taiwanese or any other allies that need help.
I said that you should arm them, but you shouldn't fight for them.

Javehn
06-27-2005, 07:41 AM
Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Atlantic Friend
06-27-2005, 08:34 AM
I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Awww, say it ain't so, Javehn ! ;)

Javehn
06-27-2005, 08:49 AM
I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Awww, say it ain't so, Javehn ! ;)

Yep , it were ze Frantsuzen ;) (and Russkies in the form of Czech before them) .

ROY H
06-27-2005, 08:50 AM
Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
_________________________

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

The United States has given more financial aid to Israel than any other country on the face of the earth. What where the top reason's OBL stated on a tape several months after 9/11? "Support for Israel"

Javehn
06-27-2005, 08:54 AM
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

That should be sence 1969 . Go to your local library and check what your country did to our country before that . If you preffer movies , look for brief example in the movie "cast a giant shadow" .
Offcorse ,thanks for the money , but if it were my choice (which is obviously not) I would say thank you very much , pay all back and rather not see one quarter from this "aid money" .

Atlantic Friend
06-27-2005, 09:18 AM
I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Awww, say it ain't so, Javehn ! ;)

Yep , it were ze Frantsuzen ;) (and Russkies in the form of Czech before them) .

Ah, yes, the good old time when the Israeli air Force flew S-99s...before switching to Ouragans, Mystères and then Mirages.

Moledet
06-27-2005, 09:41 AM
Now to your ridiculous comments about Israel, I could just call you an ungratefully Jew prick, but I am going to be civil. First off when your country was first starting up trying to win it's independence in the late 40's and 50's after WW2 who supplied your country with economic aid and weapons? That's right the good old USA. To this day we are the largest country on the face of the earth who provides aid for your country. We have an aid agreement like no other in the entire world with your country.


I'd say you are the one who needs history lessons . It was shurely not your country .

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
_________________________

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

The United States has given more financial aid to Israel than any other country on the face of the earth. What where the top reason's OBL stated on a tape several months after 9/11? "Support for Israel"
The US participated in the Arabian embargo on Israel...not much of an allie at that time.
I think Altelena, the IZL ship stored american weapons and equipment that were bought by donations from American Jews, but Ben Gurion sank it.

OMEGA7
06-27-2005, 10:24 AM
Any way , I'D RATHER I DON'T LIKE THE CHINESE PROJECT