German government loses confidence vote

[Macs.]

German government loses confidence vote

BERLIN (AP) - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's government lost a confidence vote in parliament Friday, giving Schroeder the chance he has sought to hold new elections.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2005/07/01/1113361-ap.html

OUT OF THE WAY SCHRÖDER ! woot

[Freibier]

Gotta cut him some slack as he could go on for another year but chose to let the people decide

[Weasel]

The alternative to Schröder doesn´t look promising. :|

[Musashi]

It reflect your Chancellor has cojones at least. Look at Polish PM - he is stubborn to be at power in spite of that the approval rate of his party is 5-7% :roll: :cantbeli:

[Rantanplan]

The next german chancelorette?



Good that I live in Canada.

[Dexx]

The next german chancelorette?



Good that I live in Canada.

Merkel will have a hard time to catch the best place there. I mean Westerwelle is looking for some exra fun. :roll: ;)

Exactly the reason why I won't vote CDU although I have done so in all election I could vote. Merkel = traitor!

[promillo]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

[Dexx]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

[Weasel]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

Hey, promillo is right. Don´t you want to receive coffins with german soldiers who died in Iraq? ;)

[promillo]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

Hey, promillo is right. Don´t you want to receive coffins with german soldiers who died in Iraq? ;)

And do you want coffins with german civilians died in germany, because islamofascists will someday hit us here?

[Conga]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

Hey, promillo is right. Don´t you want to receive coffins with german soldiers who died in Iraq? ;)

And do you want coffins with german civilians died in germany, because islamofascists will someday hit us here?

Right, attacking Iraq would have certainly changed that :lol:

I'm gonna vote for Schröder this fall, because I don't think I'll be an enterpriser any time soon, so why should I vote for the CDU?

[Dexx]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

Hey, promillo is right. Don´t you want to receive coffins with german soldiers who died in Iraq? ;)

And do you want coffins with german civilians died in germany, because islamofascists will someday hit us here?

Right, attacking Iraq would have certainly changed that :lol:

Why do you take him seriously? He is crazy.

[promillo]

...blah... Merkel = traitor!

No. Chancellor-wannabe Shredder is the traitor.
He mumbeled something about solidarity with the USA and as it gets into german elections he breaks his promise just because to get some cheap votes.

Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have my own opinion and I am entitled to have one. So don't try to argue with me, I don't take you seriously, you are insane.

Hey, promillo is right. Don´t you want to receive coffins with german soldiers who died in Iraq? ;)

And do you want coffins with german civilians died in germany, because islamofascists will someday hit us here?

Right, attacking Iraq would have certainly changed that :lol:

I'm gonna vote for Schröder this fall, because I don't think I'll be an enterpriser any time soon, so why should I vote for the CDU?

1. Yes, many Islamofascists who lingered around in germany are now in Iraq. There they have a good chance to go to their "Allah". Many problems are solved that way.

2. So you are a worker? But you dont want to work anymore? Then its a good idea to revote Shredder, cause he will make it very probably for you that you soon have a lot of free time to spend...in the floor of the local Arbeitsamt.
rofl

[Conga]

I'm sure Stoiber, a bavarian right wing demagogue, would have done much more for the working class than the SPD rofl

[Weasel]

I'm sure Stoiber, a bavarian right wing demagogue, would have done much more for the working class than the SPD rofl

Of course only for aryan germans. ;)

[promillo]

I'm sure Stoiber, a bavarian right wing demagogue, would have done much more for the working class than the SPD rofl

stOIber is a moron, but he would have done much less damage to the german workers than Shredder. Bavaria is one of the top states in germany.
Its a shame, but even someone like stOIber is much better than Shredder and his commiebunch.

but now we have Angie as the comming chancellor, together with a strong FDP (Gerhard as foreign minister and Westerwelle as internal minister), what will be much more better, than stOIber.

its simple. If you want poverty for all, then reelect Shredder.
but if you want less unemployment, more wealth for the average worker and a modern germany, then elect FDP (or, as lesser evil compared to Shredder) CDU.

[BigBaribal]

I imagine that a "patriot" like Promillo, as a perfect neocon proxy to some hidden allegiance, would prefer that all the European politicians would be directly choosen at Washington or replaced by the way of "orange" totally spontaneous revolutions, this to serve some agendas in which the real interests of Europe take no part.

Ah, the dream of Promillo: a draft in Europe to send all the European youth as soldiers in middle-east or persian operations theaters. I'm really not socialist, but Schröder did the right think about Irak.

[promillo]

pssst, its not Washington but Tel Aviv.
rofl

[Weasel]

I'm sure Stoiber, a bavarian right wing demagogue, would have done much more for the working class than the SPD rofl

stOIber is a moron, but he would have done much less damage to the german workers than Shredder. Bavaria is one of the top states in germany.
Its a shame, but even someone like stOIber is much better than Shredder and his commiebunch.

but now we have Angie as the comming chancellor, together with a strong FDP (Gerhard as foreign minister and Westerwelle as internal minister), what will be much more better, than stOIber.

its simple. If you want poverty for all, then reelect Shredder.
but if you want less unemployment, more wealth for the average worker and a modern germany, then elect FDP (or, as lesser evil compared to Shredder) CDU.

I guess you did not listen to Angies agenda for the next years. Increasing the betterment tax (Mehrwertsteuer) is a fantastic idea to improve internal economy. rofl

[BigBaribal]

pssst, its not Washington but Tel Aviv.
rofl




This was exactly what was written in the Jane's article which was censored here.


Btw, as some guys already asked it to me, I can give the link to this article (hey, it's just an article from the Jane's) by MP.

[promillo]

We need a strong FDP to stop such semicommie bull**** from the CDU/CSU. Thats the main topic for the coming election. The CDU today is as much leftist, as the SPd was in the 80ies. Thats a problem only a strong FDP can cure.

[BigBaribal]

We need a strong FDP to stop such semicommie bull**** from the CDU/CSU. Thats the main topic for the coming election. The CDU today is as much leftist, as the SPd was in the 80ies. Thats a problem only a strong FDP can cure.


Promillo, what do you have with the "commies"? About all of the neocons writing the Bush's speeches are ex-marxist or ex-trotskists from the sixties.

[promillo]

pssst, its not Washington but Tel Aviv.
rofl




This was exactly what was written in the Jane's article which was censored here.

BB, Did you realized, that I am kidding? That I am fooling you? I really cant take you serious amy more. You are an antisemitic clown who believes in a jewish world conspiracy. What do you expect, i sholud tell you? If I tell you, that there is no such conspiracy, you will surely take it as proof, that there is one.

rofl

Oh, wait a moment, there is one...really, they even got a home page.
http://www.internationaljewishconspiracy.com/

So, but now back on topic.
A "government" of commies, semi-commies, former terrorist supporters and plain dumbheads is nothing, that a patriot could wish to have or his country.

[promillo]

We need a strong FDP to stop such semicommie bull**** from the CDU/CSU. Thats the main topic for the coming election. The CDU today is as much leftist, as the SPd was in the 80ies. Thats a problem only a strong FDP can cure.


Promillo, what do you have with the "commies"? About all of the neocons writing the Bush's speeches are ex-marxist or ex-trotskists from the sixties.

Just like our redgreeen "government" They are alll commies too, but no ex-commies. They are the same bunch that they were in the sixties. And thats our problem here.

if they only were ex-commies....

[Kitsune]

What Germany needs is a decisive policy of tough decisions. In my opinion this is not what can be expected of Red/Green.
But there is one other reason to vote for CDU/FDP: The Bundesrat is presently completely controlled by Black/Yellow and that will stay this way for at least 5 years, possibly more. With that being so, no Red/Green government can make the needed decisive policy. Schröder has now come to a point where he feels stuck in such a way that he himself tries to bring new elections about...but if he should win those, Germany is again in the situation in which it is now. Stuck. For four more years.
To put it otherwise, if Red/Green would win the next elcetion this would be the ultimate catastrophe for Germany. Even voters who usually staunchly vote for the social Democrats or the Greens should consider to make an exception this autumn. Germany simply needs a government that can act to face its problems.

[BigBaribal]

Promillo, you would begin to be really boring with your accusations of antisemitism, if I would care about it of course.

Is it your single and only argument, except personal attacks?


Here, for the people on this forum who are still responsible to articulated argumentation, a not so bad article on the neocons, on the liberal site "The Nation":

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040223&s=lind


I just hope that after the Jane's, liberal sites are not to be censored as "nazi" sites :roll:

[BigBaribal]

A "government" of commies, semi-commies, former terrorist supporters and plain dumbheads is nothing, that a patriot could wish to have or his country.


http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/003611.html



More on Bush's opening to terrorists

Providing further support for my indictment of President Bush for his contradictory and deceitful policies, a reader writes:

Now I'm hearing that the Bush administration is considering having contact with Hamas, with, of course, the devious Europeans leading the way. Not having a strategy to win in Iraq is bad enough, but this shows a complete lack of understanding of who the enemy is, since Hamas has the same identical ideology and tactics as Al Qaeda. .......

[BigBaribal]

Also, a good article about the neocons on "Salon.com":

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/04/09/neocons/index_np.html


Btw, a clear point of view of Powell on the neocons:

[mountainbear]

pssst, its not Washington but Tel Aviv.
rofl




This was exactly what was written in the Jane's article which was censored here.


Btw, as some guys already asked it to me, I can give the link to this article (hey, it's just an article from the Jane's) by MP.

Why was it censored? I would like to reed it, not that I agree on the Jewish conspiracy theory p-) but just for information.

[Prometheus]

I guess you did not listen to Angies agenda for the next years. Increasing the betterment tax (Mehrwertsteuer) is a fantastic idea to improve internal economy. rofl

Better than the fantastic ideas of the Socialists and the Eco-Stalinists to “reform” Germany to a socialistic agrarian country where all technology and personal property is prohibited.

BTW: The Value added tax will rise in every case. They simply need the money, no matter which party leads the government.

Red/Green ideas of a “millionaire tax” and bull**** like „the evil managers/businessman/hedge fonds are the reason that so many are unemployed” are nice propaganda in the election campaign, but they are no solution for our problems.



I'm really not socialist, but Schröder did the right think about Irak.

Indeed. I hope that every German government in the future will continue a strong opposition against Bush and the US meddling in Europe.

[Weasel]

I guess you did not listen to Angies agenda for the next years. Increasing the betterment tax (Mehrwertsteuer) is a fantastic idea to improve internal economy. rofl

Better than the fantastic ideas of the Socialists and the Eco-Stalinists to “reform” Germany to a socialistic agrarian country where all technology and personal property is prohibited.

rofl I don´t know any party wanting such things.


BTW: The Value added tax will rise in every case. They simply need the money, no matter which party leads the government.

Red/Green ideas of a “millionaire tax” and bull**** like „the evil managers/businessman/hedge fonds are the reason that so many are unemployed” are nice propaganda in the election campaign, but they are no solution for our problems.

Perhabs people spend more money instead of saving the money if all prices will rise. ;)



I'm really not socialist, but Schröder did the right think about Irak.

Indeed. I hope that every German government in the future will continue a strong opposition against Bush and the US meddling in Europe.

x1000

[Conga]

So, but now back on topic.
A "government" of commies, semi-commies, former terrorist supporters and plain dumbheads is nothing, that a patriot could wish to have or his country.

Patriotism or national pride is the last thing we need.
And why do you call the SPD communists? It seems you don't know anything about the difference capitalism/communism :cantbeli:

[Freibier]

How can a US asskisser like pornillo be a patriot?
Oh, and raising the Mehrwertsteuer is a great idea :cantbeli:

[promillo]

I guess you did not listen to Angies agenda for the next years. Increasing the betterment tax (Mehrwertsteuer) is a fantastic idea to improve internal economy. rofl

Better than the fantastic ideas of the Socialists and the Eco-Stalinists to “reform” Germany to a socialistic agrarian country where all technology and personal property is prohibited.

BTW: The Value added tax will rise in every case. They simply need the money, no matter which party leads the government.


The problem is, that no matter how much they increase the sales tax, they will not get more money...cause the citizens are overtaxed. They will get less money. And more unemployed, more bamcrupcies and so on. We neeed drastic tax cuts. Thats the only cure for this country.



Red/Green ideas of a “millionaire tax” and bull**** like „the evil managers/businessman/hedge fonds are the reason that so many are unemployed” are nice propaganda in the election campaign, but they are no solution for our problems.


The core of the redgreens agenda is envy. Nothing else.





I'm really not socialist, but Schröder did the right think about Irak.

Indeed. I hope that every German government in the future will continue a strong opposition against Bush and the US meddling in Europe.

Yeah, a real good job. He took his bets on Saddam and he losed. But with him, we all losed. We losed jobs, we losed oil contracts, we losed a good customer for our WMD-factories...but first of all, we losed credibility and moral voice.

Shredders opposition against the iraqi liberation was pure election-driven. First he created anti-war hysteria in germany then he backed saddam to make the war inescapable and so he won the election.
It was the most criminal act in his so called career.
it was a shame and a disprofit for every german.

[Weasel]

Shredders opposition against the iraqi liberation was pure election-driven. First he created anti-war hysteria in germany then he backed saddam to make the war inescapable and so he won the election.
It was the most criminal act in his so called career.
it was a shame and a disprofit for every german.

It would have been a crime if he had joined the coalition of the killing. And with this decision he abolutely followed the will of german population.

Btw. I don´t know any nation backing up Saddam. Did I miss something?

[promillo]

Shredders opposition against the iraqi liberation was pure election-driven. First he created anti-war hysteria in germany then he backed saddam to make the war inescapable and so he won the election.
It was the most criminal act in his so called career.
it was a shame and a disprofit for every german.

It would have been a crime if he had joined the coalition of the killing. And with this decision he abolutely followed the will of german population.

Btw. I don´t know any nation backing up Saddam. Did I miss something?


Yes, you missed a lot...but i this case, ist about his blockade of the UNO, where he denied EVERY action against saddam, if he dont prove the disarming of his WMDs. He was Saddams best friend and his UNO-blocking made the forced inspection 8now known as liberation) more likely.

BTW, its a crime to enforce Un-Resolutions?

[machupichu]

the thread creator didnt mention the most important information. Schroedr initiated and intended to lose this vote so new elections can begin. that way hes hoping to gain more power.

[Prometheus]

Better than the fantastic ideas of the Socialists and the Eco-Stalinists to “reform” Germany to a socialistic agrarian country where all technology and personal property is prohibited.

rofl I don´t know any party wanting such things.


The greens want this, the PDS and the new ”WASG” want this and parts of the SPD want this too. You can clearly see it e.g. in Green politics, where a single hamster is more important than the creation of hundreds of new jobs.





BTW: The Value added tax will rise in every case. They simply need the money, no matter which party leads the government.

Red/Green ideas of a “millionaire tax” and bull**** like „the evil managers/businessman/hedge fonds are the reason that so many are unemployed” are nice propaganda in the election campaign, but they are no solution for our problems.

Perhabs people spend more money instead of saving the money if all prices will rise. ;)


No, but that’s not the problem. The household saving ratio is maybe high, but it was higher in the past without creating this problems. The problem of our economic system and the high unemployment isn’t demand, it’s interest. The demand is high enough; every Germany consumes 1.4 % (real) more than in the last year. But economic growth has its limitations, especially in early industrialized countries like Germany. The dogmatism of economic growth is insane. You can’t grow by 3% (real) or more every year (which is supposed to be a solution of our economic problems), this would mean that you double (!) your consumption in 25 years, tipple it in 38, quadruple it in 47 years and so on. After 100 years you had to consume (real) 19 times more than today if you want to achieve 3% annual economic growth. That’s simply impossible.

I will not go to detail with the interest-problem, but I suggest everybody to read Helmut Creutz “Die 29 Irrtümer rund ums Geld”. He describes the real problem of the economy, why it becomes from bad to worse and why the whole (global) system will colapse.

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3854363621/qid=1120385487/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/302-7613277-6924803




Patriotism or national pride is the last thing we need.


I think we need a lot more of them. To love his country is never a fault, it’s only a fault to hate other countries.


And why do you call the SPD communists? It seems you don't know anything about the difference capitalism/communism :cantbeli:

If you hear Müntefering and some of his left-wing idiots, there’s only a slight difference between the SPD and socialism.






The problem is, that no matter how much they increase the sales tax, they will not get more money...cause the citizens are overtaxed. They will get less money. And more unemployed, more bamcrupcies and so on. We neeed drastic tax cuts. Thats the only cure for this country.


As I said before, the problem is interest not demand. Sure the taxes are high, but the taxes are only a result of the interest problem. To cut down taxes would increase our problems, not diminish them. Read Helmut Creutz :). The only thing we can do is increase taxes and cut down subsidies to pay back our loans and leave the vicious circle.




The core of the redgreens agenda is envy. Nothing else.


Envy, ignorance and dogmatism.




Yeah, a real good job. He took his bets on Saddam and he losed.


He didn’t bet on Saddam he bet on international law and order. Not on cowboy-diplomacy like Bush and his bunch of trigger-happy militarists.


But with him, we all losed. We losed jobs,

Nice theory, but empirical not provable.



we losed oil contracts, we losed a good customer for our WMD-factories...

We had never oil from Iraq in Germany, so we loosed nothing. And the most of the Iraqi WMDs were made in USA, we delivered only a very small number of machine building tools for this.



but first of all, we losed credibility and moral voice.

Wrong, it’s quite the contrary. We gained credibility and morality, the USA lost nearly all their support and credit in the world.



Shredders opposition against the iraqi liberation was pure election-driven.

Correct. But it was no liberation it is occupation and bloody oppression.


It was the most criminal act in his so called career.

It was the only good thing he ever did as head of government.


it was a shame and a disprofit for every german.

It is a very large profit for every German not to be a part of the bloody oppression of the Iraqis, and it’s also a large profit not to loose the lifes of brave, young German soldiers in little Georges sandbox-adventure. If he wants to conquer more oil sources, piss the Muslims, and start a holy crusade it’s his business, but not at our expense.




Yes, you missed a lot...but i this case, ist about his blockade of the UNO, where he denied EVERY action against saddam, if he dont prove the disarming of his WMDs. He was Saddams best friend and his UNO-blocking made the forced inspection 8now known as liberation) more likely.


Germany can’t blockade the UN as you know. The USA passed over the UN and attacked a sovereign country without any legitimation. And they still wonder about the insurgency against “the liberators” …



BTW, its a crime to enforce Un-Resolutions?

No, but it is a crime to attack a sovereign country without a declaration of war, without any reason and/or without a legitimation of the UN Security Council. This makes George Bush and every American soldier in Iraq war criminals.

[Turhapuro]

If you have to increase taxes, VAT is the best way to go. It distorts economy less than capital or income taxes.