Berlusconi demands US respect, protests over CIA kidnap

[Sharp]

ROME (AFP) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has summoned the US ambassador to demand an explanation over an alleged CIA kidnapping of an Islamic cleric in Milan, a government minister said.

The incident two years ago made the news on Friday when the Corriere della Sera daily in Rome reported that a judge had issued arrest warrants for 13 CIA agents.

"Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi summoned the American ambassador in Italy to clarify the affair concerning imam Abu Omar," Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Carlo Giovanardi said in a statement to senators.

He said the ambassador was currently out of Rome but would most likely answer the summons on Friday, insisting that the Italian government was not in any way involved in the affair.

"This operation was never brought to the attention of the republic," he said. "It is out of the question that an operation of this type would have been authorized (by the Italian government) and that the Italian secret services had played any part."

Osama Mustafa Hassan, also known as Abu Omar, was seized in a Milan street on February 17, 2003, by two Italian-speakers claiming to want to check his identity. He has since been missing.

Last week Italian judge Chiara Nobili issued 13 arrest warrants for CIA agents suspected of abducting Hassan and whisking him to the US military base at Aviano in northern Italy before transferring him to Egypt, where his entourage claim he was tortured during interrogation.

The Milan prosecutor's office made clear that any Italian found to be implicated in the abduction of the imam would also be prosecuted.

Hassan was imam of a Milan mosque which had been placed under close watch following the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States.

The CIA agents targeted included the alleged head of the operation, who was an accredited diplomat with the US consulate in Milan at the time, the Italian newspaper wrote.

The Central Intelligence Agency "told a number of people" about its kidnapping plan, but "certainly not the magistrate, nor the Milan police," an unnamed CIA veteran told The Washington Post.

The paper's sources said the CIA station chief in Rome -- who has since retired but remains undercover -- briefed and sought approval from his counterpart in Italy for the operation, but it was unclear how far up the chain of command the information was shared or whether Berlusconi's office was aware.

The Milan operation, the CIA officials said, was conceived by the Rome CIA station chief, organized by the CIA's Counter-terrorism Center, and approved by the CIA leadership and by at least one person at the National Security Council.

They also said it was standard practice for the CIA and its Italian counterpart to agree to keep official silence on the covert kidnapping operation if it became public.

Knowledgeable intelligence officials told the Post that the CIA had conducted more than 100 such apprehensions since September 11.

This latest affair is the second incident in only a matter of months to strain Italy's relations with the United States following the killing of its secret service agent Nicola Calipari at a US checkpoint as he was escorting a freed Italian hostage to Baghdad airport in March.

Berlusconi will likely feel obliged to give some public vent to his displeasure only a week before a Group of Eight summit of most industrialised countries in Scotland, where he will meet US President George W. Bush, of whom he boasts to be one of the closest allies in Europe.

[Inquisitor]

lol Bush doesn't give a ---- about Berlusconi...

[K-9s BEST]

Such an outrage!!! :cantbeli:
Somehow, it seems to pale in comparison with the Italian Govt. releasing the PLO terrorist who murdered an American citizen on the Achilles Lauro despite U.S. requests for extradition. :-*$

[Miles.]

Such an outrage!!! :cantbeli:
Somehow, it seems to pale in comparison with the Italian Govt. releasing the PLO terrorist who murdered an American citizen on the Achilles Lauro despite U.S. requests for extradition. :-*$

Even more pale in comparison to you...we got him back in Iraq. ;)

Yeah, it is an outrage, really. But that's my country's Intelligence Agency, so I still support them, and hope they won't sell out their agents. They probably won't. Hopefully, we never hear any more of these problems. ;)

[radon]

Italians support you in Iraq and have been good allies. Even more wrong to collect people probably without asking first.

Pale nothing is pale if someone starts walking over the law and sovereignity like this :|

If I was president and dictator of my country I would let anyone doing that sit atleast 20 years for something like that.

[promillo]

Why are those terrorists who call themself "clerics" are allowed to run around free in italy and hold their hate speeches to other islamofascists?

If we dont act against the enemy within, then our friends have to do.

[Sharp]

Why are those terrorists who call themself "clerics" are allowed to run around free in italy and hold their hate speeches to other islamofascists?

If we dont act against the enemy within, then our friends have to do.

Yes but the american logic... :roll:
can you tell us where have been find the WDM in Irak?

You say "then our friends have to do" , ok so you will not protest if french secret agent go secretly in Germany for find some neo nazi and go with them somewhere in the world?
I'm sorry but each country have his laws and his right, and it's not because you are called "The Great America" that you can broke this laws.

[machupichu]

kidnaping other nations inhabitants - that can only be america or israel, cia or mossad. no wonder the worlds nations see those two as criminals and main factor of global insecurity.

[promillo]

Why are those terrorists who call themself "clerics" are allowed to run around free in italy and hold their hate speeches to other islamofascists?

If we dont act against the enemy within, then our friends have to do.

Yes but the american logic... :roll:
can you tell us where have been find the WDM in Irak?



Thanks to the "fast" and "resolute" inspections from UN, we now have to look for them in Syria.


You say "then our friends have to do" , ok so you will not protest if french secret agent go secretly in Germany for find some neo nazi and go with them somewhere in the world?



If germany would protect the nazi? Yes, in this case justice should be enforced, even if the gubberment of his hideout would try to protect him.




I'm sorry but each country have his laws and his right, and it's not because you are called "The Great America" that you can broke this laws.

"The law" is less important than freedom and human rights.
I **** on such laws, who protect criminals.
They have to be broken from someone who has the military AND moral power to do it.

[promillo]

kidnaping other nations inhabitants - that can only be america or israel, cia or mossad. no wonder the worlds nations see those two as criminals and main factor of global insecurity.

Oh yes... but the toleration of mass-murderers or wannabe-mass murderers ist a wonderful thing, even a nazi war criminal has the right to hide in a rouge state, live his life free and wealthy and nobody shall harm him.

Where is the puke-icon?

No,, such scum has to be hunted down and brought to justice, no matter, where its creeping.

[BigBaribal]

Why are those terrorists who call themself "clerics" are allowed to run around free in italy and hold their hate speeches to other islamofascists?

If we dont act against the enemy within, then our friends have to do.


"The enemy within", dont you even realize that this is a perfectly "nazi" concept!

Btw, it's not very cautious to manipulate such concepts. You know when the story begins, but you have no idea where it can end!

[BigBaribal]

"The law" is less important than freedom and human rights.


The perfect tool to break the concept of national sovereignty (especially what patriots all over the world fear and what rootless globalists want).

And don't forget that no freedom is possible without national sovereignty.

[machupichu]

kidnaping other nations inhabitants - that can only be america or israel, cia or mossad. no wonder the worlds nations see those two as criminals and main factor of global insecurity.

Oh yes... but the toleration of mass-murderers or wannabe-mass murderers ist a wonderful thing, even a nazi war criminal has the right to hide in a rouge state, live his life free and wealthy and nobody shall harm him.

Where is the puke-icon?

No,, such scum has to be hunted down and brought to justice, no matter, where its creeping.
those are nazi methods, youre a nazi!
rofl

[Brookes]

You know i think that there are certainly circumstances when such action by the CIA is necessary and valid (of course, only when we do it..). Here in Holland we had a guy who was arrested and put on trial for planning terrorist activities... he was later acquitted even though he was part of a group with clear hostile intentions. They found he had explosive(making) materials, weapons, detailed plans of the Dutch intelligence agency, schiphol airport and the house of government. Now the reason why the acquitted him was because we could not actually prove he was plotting anything or that he was ever going to use what he had (guess terrorists don't keep diaries these days).

So... free as a bird cause the legal system was to pragmatic for its own good.

At leased by taking the man as an enemy combatant or as someone who is part of you enemy's infrastructure you can keep him locked up. And had they informed the Italian government their ally (bellusconi –yes I probably butchered that) then they or he would be the ones in trouble for allouwing it.

Now of course such methods are very sensitive to abuse, but I’d rather make the mistake of taking to many than to few.
[/i]

[promillo]

"The law" is less important than freedom and human rights.


The perfect tool to break the concept of national sovereignty (especially what patriots all over the world fear and what rootless globalists want).

And don't forget that no freedom is possible without national sovereignty.

Freedom is possible in many ways, you dont need the childish concept of "national sovereignity" for it.

Its time that mankind will emancipate from the ancient concept of nation.

[promillo]

kidnaping other nations inhabitants - that can only be america or israel, cia or mossad. no wonder the worlds nations see those two as criminals and main factor of global insecurity.

Oh yes... but the toleration of mass-murderers or wannabe-mass murderers ist a wonderful thing, even a nazi war criminal has the right to hide in a rouge state, live his life free and wealthy and nobody shall harm him.

Where is the puke-icon?

No,, such scum has to be hunted down and brought to justice, no matter, where its creeping.
those are nazi methods, youre a nazi!
rofl
yes, of course..to hunt down nazi war criminals are nazi mehtods.
rofl

[BigBaribal]

Freedom is possible in many ways, you dont need the childish concept of "national sovereignity" for it.

Its time that mankind will emancipate from the ancient concept of nation.


What you just wrote here is so archetypal of the position you are so openly defending on this forum: obviously you don't like our nations, you don't like the sovereign peoples; in fact, you simply don't like everything that is able to resist your work of deception and division.

So how can a citizen of any of our countries see you as a person worthy of confidence and on which one can count in the difficult situations, because apparently you will never choose to defend your country, but rather to protect other interests. In fact, it's you perhaps "the enemy within" you were talking about in another topic?

But I say "openly" with some surprise as usually this position is rather cleverly and carefuly hidden under fake but very efficient false reasons.

So, an advice: don't tell your opinion so clearly, because even the most stupid lemmings could this way awake one day.

[promillo]

Freedom is possible in many ways, you dont need the childish concept of "national sovereignity" for it.

Its time that mankind will emancipate from the ancient concept of nation.


What you just wrote here is so archetypal of the position you are so openly defending on this forum: obviously you don't like our nations, you don't like the sovereign peoples; in fact, you simply don't like everything that is able to resist your work of deception and division.

I like personal and individual sovereingnity. Its the people, not the state.


So how can a citizen of any of our countries see you as a person worthy of confidence and on which one can count in the difficult situations,



As an example I always backed President Bush and his success in liberating the iraq, mo matter what the mayority of german traitors said.
Seems, as if I am reliable.





because apparently you will never choose to defend your country, but rather to protect other interests. In fact, it's you perhaps "the enemy within" you were talking about in another topic?


I would defend my country, if its necessary...so I defended it against the redgreen traitors by opposing their evil work and making PR against them.




But I say "openly" with some surprise as usually this position is rather cleverly and carefuly hidden under fake but very efficient false reasons.

So, an advice: don't tell your opinion so clearly, because even the most stupid lemmings could this way awake one day.


rofl

[Weasel]

As an example I always backed President Bush and his success in liberating the iraq, mo matter what the mayority of german traitors said.
Seems, as if I am dumb.



because apparently you will never choose to defend your country, but rather to protect other interests. In fact, it's you perhaps "the enemy within" you were talking about in another topic?

I would defend my country, if its necessary...so I defended it against the redgreen traitors by opposing their evil work and making PR against them.

rofl Megalomania.

[RGRBOX]

Such an outrage!!! :cantbeli:
Somehow, it seems to pale in comparison with the Italian Govt. releasing the PLO terrorist who murdered an American citizen on the Achilles Lauro despite U.S. requests for extradition. :-*$

X2.... fvck Berlusconi...

[kenshiroIT]

X2.... fvck Berlusconi

yeah fvck Berlusconi just as fvck Bush...but dont fvck with other national sovreinity.

[Fliptape]

what if Iran`s secret service had kidnapped you while where sitting in front of your TV in the USA, because you where spreading all these antimuslim views on the net.

And if Bush had complained we`d say : Fvck Bush! :)

[kenshiroIT]

that would be a violation of US sovreinity....a criminal act.
Just like the one US did in Italy.....

[promillo]

what if Iran`s secret service had kidnapped you while where sitting in front of your TV in the USA, because you where spreading all these antimuslim views on the net.

And if Bush had complained we`d say : Fvck Bush! :)

Your braindead post is a god example how people can live without moral, without values, without logic and reason.

For people like you its the same, if you are a democrat who wants to keep people free or if you are an islamofascist criminal who want to enslave the world.
:cantbeli:

[Fliptape]

am i braindead? hehe thats the first time i have heard that one :)

now please tell me how i dont have any morale, logic or reason just because i think that people cant be kidnapped from their homes because they dont like your country?

has the guilty until proven othervise phrase been flushed down the toilett togheter with all the other laws that actually protects the the freedom of the individual.

I think USA is starting to look like preww2 german, but hey, its not my country :)

[RGRBOX]

X2.... fvck Berlusconi

yeah fvck Berlusconi just as fvck Bush...but dont fvck with other national sovreinity.

What National Sovernety.... Italy has show in the past that it can be trusted on these types of situations... if has too big a following of support for elements that are listed Terrerist Organizations... I see it where the US did what it had to do... and I'm sure that the Italian Intelegence Community probably knew what was going on... just the media forcing them to tell another tale...

[Sharp]

I'm sure that the Italian Intelegence Community probably knew what was going on... just the media forcing them to tell another tale...

If it's was true why Berlusconi did he not say it? I think that it's most in his interest to say that it's was a "cooperation" with america that say that he had no knowledge of what happen and why the sovernety has been soiled...

[RGRBOX]

I'm sure that the Italian Intelegence Community probably knew what was going on... just the media forcing them to tell another tale...

If it's was true why Berlusconi did he not say it? I think that it's most in his interest to say that it's was a "cooperation" with america that say that he had no knowledge of what happen and why the sovernety has been soiled...

Politics....

[JoaMei]

As an example I always backed President Bush and his success in liberating the iraq, mo matter what the mayority of german traitors said.
Seems, as if I am dumb.



because apparently you will never choose to defend your country, but rather to protect other interests. In fact, it's you perhaps "the enemy within" you were talking about in another topic?

I would defend my country, if its necessary...so I defended it against the redgreen traitors by opposing their evil work and making PR against them.

rofl Megalomania.

promillo on his Mission to save the world... :lol:

[callous]

am i braindead? hehe thats the first time i have heard that one :)

now please tell me how i dont have any morale, logic or reason just because i think that people cant be kidnapped from their homes because they dont like your country?

has the guilty until proven othervise phrase been flushed down the toilett togheter with all the other laws that actually protects the the freedom of the individual.

I think USA is starting to look like preww2 german, but hey, its not my country :)

No in your country you can take over embassies hold people hostage for more than a year. Then later on become president. woot Please don't lecture us about freedom or rights until your country has both. Also everytime someone throws out the "Bush is like Hitler" or " America is like nazi Germany" it just diminishes your point, and makes you look like a fool. You know who was like Hitler? HITLER! That's who!

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I can tell you now.

If this type of operation was carried out in Australia I would be wanting the cheif of ASIO, the Prime Minister, Attorney General, Foreign Affiars all to resign.

This is a flagrant violation of a nations soverignty

[callous]

Not if people in thier government gave the CIA the okay.

[K-9s BEST]

Nice avatar, Callous.

The int`l. community has a LOOONG way to go before lecturing America on respecting freedom, national borders, law, etc. (Concepts absent from European soil for the last 80 years!) Here`s an idea- punish us by removing the U.N. from NYC and stick it in one of the many "noblely principled" other countries, (I can already see it in N. Korea, or Cuba, heck, why not Saudi Arabia?)

Italy can get its` revenge by sending its entire police to America and kidnap all the Italian mafiosos living here and violating U.S. laws. In fact the entire world is welcome to do that-kidnap YOUR nationals living here illegaly and take them back to your countries. :D

Have a nice hypocratic day.

[caridon]

Nice avatar, Callous.

The int`l. community has a LOOONG way to go before lecturing America on respecting freedom, national borders, law, etc. (Concepts absent from European soil for the last 80 years!) Here`s an idea- punish us by removing the U.N. from NYC and stick it in one of the many "noblely principled" other countries, (I can already see it in N. Korea, or Cuba, heck, why not Saudi Arabia?)

Italy can get its` revenge by sending its entire police to America and kidnap all the Italian mafiosos living here and violating U.S. laws. In fact the entire world is welcome to do that-kidnap YOUR nationals living here illegaly and take them back to your countries. :D

Have a nice hypocratic day.

Your little rant is a clasiclexample of logical falacies. It's the "but he did it to" argument. and it does not hold water. If the US commited a crime must be judged independently from all other events.
But that seems to be very hard for the "USA can not do anything wrongbecause everyone else is worse" myrmidon crowd to understand.


/C

[caridon]

[ Please don't lecture us about freedom or rights until your country has both.

Good then i can begin whenever i like
with the rest of the europeeans :)

1) Next time think before you asuume that ther is only the US that have freedom and human rights.

2) if a country has human rights or not is irelevant to the right of the inhabitants of that countris right to lecture anyone about anything.

/C

[Sharp]

I'm sure that the Italian Intelegence Community probably knew what was going on... just the media forcing them to tell another tale...

If it's was true why Berlusconi did he not say it? I think that it's most in his interest to say that it's was a "cooperation" with america that say that he had no knowledge of what happen and why the sovernety has been soiled...

Politics....

once again where are his interests? i don't see your point...

[Fliptape]

No in your country you can take over embassies hold people hostage for more than a year. Then later on become president. Please don't lecture us about freedom or rights until your country has both. Also everytime someone throws out the "Bush is like Hitler" or " America is like nazi Germany" it just diminishes your point, and makes you look like a fool. You know who was like Hitler? HITLER! That's who!

i find it scary when the freedome of the individual is reduced because of the states need to have better control of its own citizens.

If you dont think that resembles prewar germany then you should read some more history.

[NicNZ]

I tip my hat to those few posters who are able to argue coherently in this thread. The rest... why do you even join a forum when you cant string a sentence together? :|

My 2 cents is that the US has abducted an Italian citizen without any consultation with the Italian Government. Much is said about the woes of US foreign policy but this is quite astounding. I agree with those who have posted references upholding sovereignty, human rights, justice, and the rule of law.