The Army Has Updated Its Basic Training

[Sierra]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-01-06-army-training_x.htm

[jlanni]

hooah sounds like fun ... i cant wait to go through it...

[Sean85]

Awesome.I'll be having nothing to do on Sundays anyway!

[garyfanclub]

Hell Yes! It's about time! However, I think they should make Basic Training 12 weeks like the USMC and follow the concept of making "everyone a rifleman".

[Dmitri]

Hell Yes! It's about time! However, I think they should make Basic Training 12 weeks like the USMC and follow the concept of making "everyone a rifleman".Everyone IS a rifleman, all the troops including infantry get the same rifle training first 9 weeks, topped off with a qualification. That usually includes quite a few "Experts", even though that is the first qualification.

[Apogee]

An overhall of the officer education system is in the works as well. I hope some of these new changes find their way into that system too.

[Flagg]

More weapons training. Recruits will be taught to fire weapons other than the M-16, the standard rifle for foot soldiers. New troops will learn how to fire other weapons commonly found in the U.S. arsenal, including a variety of machine guns.

Does this mean Army recruits ONLY train on M16 in Basic?

To be honest, I would have expected at least minimum qualification in ALL rifle platoon weapons, including handgun, SAW, M203, etc. to already be included in Army Basic training.

Can any current or past serving US army pers comment?

[Ratamacue]

Advanced Infantry Training (AIT), which comes after basic, includes qualification on all infantry weapon systems (SAW, M203, etc.). At least that's how I think it is, anyone that's gone through it want to comment?

[ibstolidude]

An overhall of the officer education system is in the works as well. I hope some of these new changes find their way into that system too.

This process has been ongoing for some time.
Over the years the Army has compiled collective experiences of many veterans, and the majority agrees that the best way to overhaul the officer education system is to tape all their mouths shut and put a decent NCO in charge. That way the farking ass will shut is pie hole long enough to listen to the man who has been doing the same job for the last 8 years in the real world, not reading about it is some farking book; and will be there for the next couple of years after the new O is long gone. This way when you finally untape the O's bigarse mouth, he understands where the unit is at and why, before he institutes his hairbrained ideas; therefore the new guy can actually help the unit build and will be better suited to ID priorities and opportunities of advancement/success, have greater cred and better ability to lead.

Sorry :oops: I couldn't resist!!

Certainly you won't be that kinda Officer...

Right?
;)

[Fioraon]

More weapons training. Recruits will be taught to fire weapons other than the M-16, the standard rifle for foot soldiers. New troops will learn how to fire other weapons commonly found in the U.S. arsenal, including a variety of machine guns.

Does this mean Army recruits ONLY train on M16 in Basic?

To be honest, I would have expected at least minimum qualification in ALL rifle platoon weapons, including handgun, SAW, M203, etc. to already be included in Army Basic training.

Can any current or past serving US army pers comment?

Not the M203, nor the handgun.

[FallenAngel]

Hell Yes! It's about time! However, I think they should make Basic Training 12 weeks like the USMC and follow the concept of making "everyone a rifleman".

Of course! And then they can remove all patches an labels from their uniforms like the USMC. I can see it now: "Sorry guys- no more 'Ranger' tabs..." ;)

Course, part of the "everyone a rifleman" thing comes from having EVERY Marine qual on the range at least once a year (although I might be wrong. TP, James, et. al.- please advise). Course, the USMC is much smaller, only around ~200,000 men and their "mission" has been fundamentally different- they are an attacking force. While the USArmy is pushing half a million (485,000 or something like that.), it's main mission is that of an occupying force. That said, in the role of occupying a country where at least a portion of the population is hostile and does not make distinction between a infantryman or a truck mechanic, the ability for those rear echelon troops to defend themselves is a key to a successful occupation.

[martinexsquaddie]

I thought that after the jessica lynch every remf would be wanting to qualify on the range :roll:
How to train young Officers. Sometime in NI our LT got hold of some apprant Intle that the IRA had set up an M60 in a house and he was going to take the platoon patrol around until they opened Fire on us :roll: and then take it out. So the wagons roll to the outskirt of the estate our glorious leader gets out his equally brave/dumb radio op gets out only to be dragged back in and hit hard. Our platoon sgt says, "OK sir this jokes gone far enough time to go home for tea" so we did.
nobody ever really found out if the m60 was true or not but starting a full scale platoon assualt in the middle of a packed housing estate colaterial damage would have made bloody sunday look like a mild scratch. never mind assualting a machine gun post :roll:

[Javehn]

Something sounds strange to me . You saying that support marine soldiers , while they are trained exactly as a combatant marines , have qualification range once in year . Once in year ? What does that mean exactly ? I shure that they have at list once in a month range , but what is that once in a year range ? I refuse to bellieve that it's the only range done by soldiers after they training .

What is the difference between combatant and non combatant /support soldiers training in U.S army ? I don't want to go into details , but the difference of that sort in Israel is huge . However ,when we got "Combat support soldiers " , they trained in higher level then usual non combatants . How does that work in U.S. army ?

And you also saying about the problem between NCO/officers . I am actually curios , how would 35 years old sargent take orders from 22 years old officer , and how does all that works ? I bet this system has quiet a few holles in it .

[WARPIG]

Army standard is also to qualify once a year on their weapon. Every soldier is assigned a weapon even if their job doesn't require one. For instance the Flutist or Tuba player in the Army band has to qualify on an M16 every year. Officers might just need to shoot their M9 but that is the only real acception. Also it is Army standard to train all personnel on common tasks. It is called CTT or Common Task Training. This includes most of the same tasks learned during basic training.
Not further weapons training is required during some AITs. For instance, AIT for a JAG paralegal is not going to include any machinegun training.
Jessi Lynch probably qualified on her M16 within 6 months of the ambush. Pre deployment usually involves sending the unit to the range.

[Uncle Sam]

This is very good news. If you are not in a Combat Arms, then the training is mediocre to say the least, especially after boot camp. I'm guessing this is referring to those MOS's that do not require as much training as, say an 11B. But it is about time...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I am actually curios , how would 35 years old sargent take orders from 22 years old officer , and how does all that works ? I bet this system has quiet a few holles in it .

Across the US military (and most others I'd guess), it's pretty well accepted that there's nothing more miserable than a #$%! 2nd Lieutenant (lowest of the officer ranks - not counting warrant officers). 2nd Lts, often called "butter bars" are very young, inexperienced, and usually right out of school. Utterly obnoxious and full of themselves. The exception are 2nd Lts that are prior enlisted & have some experience.

The smart ones will defer to their senior NCOs on important issues as they learn. This way they appear to make good decisions, and quickly earn respect among the troops. A-hole ones insist that they have all the answers, and get people hurt, or worse. They of course develop a reputation of incompetence and arrogance. But the chain of command is strictly maintained in all cases. It simply goes with the job.

Senior NCOs often have to "fill in the blanks" in many cases. I'll leave that to the imagination, but I think you see what I mean. But the NCOs in all cases have to at least appear to be following orders to the letter.

[Dmitri]

Course, part of the "everyone a rifleman" thing comes from having EVERY Marine qual on the range at least once a year
Wow, this is nothing new. Even National Guard qualifies every year with personal and then crew-served weapons. I'm sure active duty does too.
When I went through couple years ago, we got detailed classes on M16, M249 SAW, M240B, and M203, which included everything from assembling, theory and live fire. Also there was AT4 with simulation fire, and hands on theory with Dragon missle system.

[Apogee]

Certainly you won't be that kinda Officer...
Right?[/size]
;)

I'm going to do everything I can not to be that kinda officer. I know this place isn't the real army, but I see alot of retarted officers on a daily basis. I'm not sure if the point is to keep them out of the operational army or just to give us an example of what not to be.

About the prior service 2LTs, I've heard that they aren't always the best. Some tend to mettle in the NCOs business more than a baby faced LT might. Thats just what some buddies have said. Anyways, have a good one.

[WARPIG]

Soldiers lead by action and example. If a new 2LT acts like he knows it all.. he will alienate his NCO's and lose credibility. If a prior enlisted 2LT tries to micromanage, he will step on everyones toes and be counter affective. He damages the NCO's credibility.
Leadership is a tuff thing as a junior officer. You have to perform at a really specific level when you are leading combat troops. If you don't you are doomed to be picked apart at every eval. The senior leadership got there usually by listening to their troops. Think they stopped? They hear what the Joes think of you.
Best way to lead is to set a high personal standard and challange your men to meet or beat it. Don't ask them to do anything you wouldn't and hold your NCOs accountable and credible. Instead of arguing with them over technical details challenge them to show you where you are wrong. When they do .. commend them. Never forget that it is not you who leads them in victory.. but they who carry you there.
US TRADOC has evaluated the need for some more specific training. We ask more of our recruits today than we ever have. We also must ask more of our leadership.

[martinexsquaddie]

some people dislike ex enlisted officers as they Know to Many of the scams. I well remember getting pulled up by our TQMS a major with the rebuke don't try that on with me son I'm not a proper officer it won't wash with me :(

[Dmitri]

I guess that would depend on their personality too, but otherwise they are best fitted to lead. Every single officer that went trought my company (seven in total), besides one, was prior enlisted, knew their stuff and were cool. Funny how one time the "noob" fresh out of ROTC 2nd Lt. was in the combat simulator (kinda of a computer game but it simulates like you seat in the real Bradley), and our whole platoon was on the mission with him leading the way. On out road to objective all of a sudden I see his Bradley on the top of the hill shooting the hell out of something. Well he successfully engaged 2 tanks, but later we found out that those were Abrams tanks, simulated by computer, that were suppose to cover us. His gunner, doing this for the first time, said that he just saw some objects moving through the woods, and Lt., without even taking his eyes off the map, just ordered him to engage. :cantbeli: Then he topped everything off by sending everyone though the minefield!! rofl
Good thing that wasn't a real combat woot

[2Sheds_Jackson]

some people dislike ex enlisted officers as they Know to Many of the scams. I well remember getting pulled up by our TQMS a major with the rebuke don't try that on with me son I'm not a proper officer it won't wash with me :(

Well I suppose anybody can be a tool - even ex-enlisted Os'. Maybe I've just been lucky that the ones I've worked with have been pretty laid back & let people do their thing.

[martinexsquaddie]

then again my unit were a bunch hooligans and needed keeping a close eye on :lol:

[Apogee]

I guess the advice I read from you guys is one of the reasons I still come here.

[ibstolidude]

About the prior service 2LTs, I've heard that they aren't always the best. Some tend to mettle in the NCOs business more than a baby faced LT might. Thats just what some buddies have said. Anyways, have a good one.
- often you are correct. Sometimes they have a tendency to micro-manage and step inthe NCO lane...but overall they tend to come with more cred....

- & atlast they are not 'ring knockers'..
:lol:

[Tane Angle]

I think SCUBA will be able to do his job very well, but that's just my humble opinion. I hope you don't mind if we throw perhaps unsolicited advice at you, SCUBA. :D

[TriggerPuller]

All Marines have to qualify twice a year on the rifle range regardless of MOS. 03 MOS's get more live fire training but to qualify it's every 6 months. Marines qualify from 200,300 and 500 yards with fixed sights only from the offhand,kneeling,sitting and ****e positions.