What will the UK's long term plan be?

[n4292936]

So what will the UK's long term plan be?
Personally I don't think this changes anything really. In another thread someone said something to the affect that "the war is now upon the UK". I would suggest that it always has been. They've been heavily invovled from the start, even before 9-11.

What will be interesting to see is the UK long term response. Bear in mind folks that the war on terror is as much one of law enforcement and diplomacy as it is a military one. In terms of preventing these sorts of events it is nearly entirely a law enforcement issue.

There are no more countries like A-stan where international terrorism is endemic and supported by the state to the same degree. Commitments to Iraq have already been made.... no more countries will fall as a result of this, no dictators blamed over it etc etc.

Will the result of all this be more of the same law enforcement and intelligence practices or will something shift (public sentiment, policy, planning, practice, strategies) ?

[Moledet]

As I said in another thread, you'd do nothing, as always.
Maybe you'd criticise Israel a bit more to have a bit of a better insurance policy, but that's pretty much it.

[Para]

No doubt it will be the same as it was when the IRA regularly bombed London during the 1970's and 80's.

[BigBaribal]

Long-term plans?

Same business as usual:


- More involvment in Middle-East as a Washington puppet.
- Less liberties for British citizen (ID card, biometry, special laws etc...)
- No deportation of islamists back to their countries.
- Even more empty rhetoric with fake abstract concepts.
- Multiculti agenda as ever. (1)


In fact, nothing which can improve the situation in Europe and go against the neocon agenda.




(1) the paradoxal part is that the neocon elites wish that we hate muslims in Irak or Iran (for a war, you need that the cannon flesh feels hate), but in the same time that we like "our" muslims in Europe :roll:




A good example of this stinky rhetoric here around abstract generous concepts to hide very concrete peculiar interests :

http://www.nationalreview.com/gaffney/gaffney200507071128.asp

Fake-conservatism at its best!

[Sergei]

A good start would be to stop ****ing around with chechen scumbags and calling them "freedom fighters".
Extradict Zakaev and Berezovsky who sponsor the war in Chechnya.
Lord Judd ought to be shot.

To finally realise that US, UK, Russia and other countries are all in the same boat and not to play power politics in Caucasus.

Otherwise more innocent people will die.

[wulfstan]

Drink tea and grumble about the weather.

[None]

Nothing will be done.
Britons, sorry your are kinda old "dead" nation. Why? Cause nothing will be done. Just wait and see. I just hate this, yet its sad but true.
Maybe another blast will clear some brains... though its doubtfull. The ones responsible are living among you, they are "nice" yet a little bit different looking citizens in your tolerant society. They have managed to do what Hitler could not. They already occupied your country and you just happened to notice.
Considering reports on muslim quest for chemical/bioweaponry. You can actually do smth - buy yourself a gas mask and NBC suit. ) Its the best You can do, as the goverment or qeen will do nothing. There was no wmd in iraq, you were looking in the wrong place .. take a closer look to the next door neighbor.

[AROUETLJ]

For a few weeks the papers will contain nothing but "TERRIBLE CARNAGE IN LONDON" (Times) or "SAS TEAMS OUT TO GET THE BASTARDS" (The Sun). Then it will be back to "BECKS SHAVES HIS RIGHT EYEBROW" ad nauseam

[BigBaribal]

Another blast would just install a "1984" society, with a ruling neocon elite pushing the idea of a perpetual war for abstract values, but in fact just to keep their rule solid.

Look here what a bastard like Goering (but a bastard who knew well his bastard's job) said about this:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5378/hoering0nr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)


In fact, all this neocon rhetoric about freedom, value, democracy simply works s on a very efficient fascistoid mechanic (of course, the muslim threat is real, but it is at first a tool in the present situation, in spite of the muslim threat can also be a causal threat by itself in other circumstances).

[BigBaribal]

For a few weeks the papers will contain nothing but "TERRIBLE CARNAGE IN LONDON" (Times) or "SAS TEAMS OUT TO GET THE BASTARDS" (The Sun). Then it will be back to "BECKS SHAVES HIS RIGHT EYEBROW" ad nauseam


"Panem et circenses", bread and games, just like in the Roman time. The best way to avoid that the citizen interest themselves too much in the mechanic of the Empire.

[Sabre]

What will be done? Just what is being done.

Unfortunately, it's not overt enough or concise enough to fit a Jerry Bruckenheimer feature length episode...sorry about that lads. I'll get on the phone to the intelligence services and tell them we need to have a fly-on-the-wall docu-drama covering some attractive, well-dressed 'agents' as they set about investigating, solving the case, tracking down the bad guys and bringing them to 'justice'. :roll:

Back in reality, the world contains people who think it's a great idea to plant bombs and kill people. Our intelligence and security services do their best to prevent them or apprehend them after the matter, beyond that there isn't much else to be done. No-one is out there cutting red wires with one second left on the timer, no-one is running in slow motion as they try to shoot the bad guy before he detonates the mobile phone-bomb. It's far more mundane than that.

Those whos job it is to track these people down and stop them will carry on doing that job and the rest of us will carry on with ours.

[Clearday-TRForce]

What will the UK's long term plan be?

it will deliver "DEMOCRACY" with USA using bomber planes. :D :cantbeli: sucks...

[Weasel]

Long-term plans?

Same business as usual:


- More involvment in Middle-East as a Washington puppet.
- Less liberties for British citizen (ID card, biometry, special laws etc...)
- No deportation of islamists back to their countries.
- Even more empty rhetoric with fake abstract concepts.
- Multiculti agenda as ever. (1)


In fact, nothing which can improve the situation in Europe and go against the neocon agenda.




(1) the paradoxal part is that the neocon elites wish that we hate muslims in Irak or Iran (for a war, you need that the cannon flesh feels hate), but in the same time that we like "our" muslims in Europe :roll:




A good example of this stinky rhetoric here around abstract generous concepts to hide very concrete peculiar interests :

http://www.nationalreview.com/gaffney/gaffney200507071128.asp

Fake-conservatism at its best!

x2

Good post.

[Sabre]

@BigBaribal: You sound like you are on a soapbox mate. Your ideas are sensible, but you present them in a sensationalist manner. There isn't going to be a 1984-esque society in Britain. I agree that an islamic 'bogeyman' is being pedalled to the pubilc from certain parts, but you don't help your argument any by preaching at everyone and quoting the cross-dressing Reichmarshall.

Get off your box mate and join the debate.

[BigBaribal]

@BigBaribal: You sound like you are on a soapbox mate. Your ideas are sensible, but you present them in a sensationalist manner. There isn't going to be a 1984-esque society in Britain. I agree that an islamic 'bogeyman' is being pedalled to the pubilc from certain parts, but you don't help your argument any by preaching at everyone and quoting the cross-dressing Reichmarshall.

Get off your box mate and join the debate.


I have pain to present my ideas in a sensible way in French, so you can imagine the result in my non-Oxfordian English :lol:

Of course, I was not talking of an obvious "1984" society, but rather of a soft and even popular move to a society with less basic and fundamental liberties.

Btw, I was quotinq Goering, because the nazis were of course bastards of first class, but bastards who knew perfectly how to manipulate the masses. And the manipulation of the masses is not so different, either in a totalitary or in a democratic society: the average guy, named John, Hans or Abdul basically doesn't want to be free, he want to be ruled and protected. And if he believes the governement protects him, this government can do almost everything with him.

Douglas McArthur said about the same:


"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it."
~ General Douglas MacArthur, 1957



USMC general Smedley Butler equally:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_is_a_Racket

[Clearday-TRForce]

What will the UK's long term plan be?



-they will continue their superb campaign...
WE WILL BRING THE WORLD "PEACE" using our "BOMBS"



http://www2.rnw.nl/assets/images/muslim-graves.jpghttp://www.deathrow.at/paul/cementery.jpg

Who will pay attention those innocent people killings?
Who will understand there will be no peace with bombs?
Who will save the people from falsified middleeast polices?
everything s getting worse...everything...

[cmdrfire]

Drink tea and grumble about the weather.

Yep. That's what me and my friends did (though one of our more progressive/liberal-minded fellows had a coffee).

Seriously, the IRA tried this for however many years and didn't really achieve anything, and they didn't really change anything (apart from rubbish bins being designed with bombs in mind). Al Qaeda can try this, but again I doubt that anything overtly noticable will occur.

London's very much back to normal, with a few delays due to the obvious road and tube closures in certain areas. Life goes on.

Clearday-TRForce - I'm agreeing with that last sentiment you expressed more and more, but I try to think positive about the situation. Now it only takes me being searched five times before I'm allowed into the US (as opposed to the frankly insane twelve times I was searched in Chicago in 2002... there's only so many lethal weapons I can pick up whilst stuck inside a terminal building...)

[Sabre]

@BigBaribal: True, I see your point.

@cmdrfire: Yep, the only long term effect on the country of the IRA attacks is that none of us can dispose of our rubbish in train stations!

Bombs didn't work with them and they don't work now.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

There was no wmd in iraq, you were looking in the wrong place .. take a closer look to the next door neighbor.What the Republic, could they have secret WMD plants concealed amongst the peat bogs. :roll:

[achilles]

So what will the UK's long term plan be?
Personally I don't think this changes anything really. In another thread someone said something to the affect that "the war is now upon the UK". I would suggest that it always has been. They've been heavily invovled from the start, even before 9-11.

What will be interesting to see is the UK long term response. Bear in mind folks that the war on terror is as much one of law enforcement and diplomacy as it is a military one. In terms of preventing these sorts of events it is nearly entirely a law enforcement issue.

There are no more countries like A-stan where international terrorism is endemic and supported by the state to the same degree. Commitments to Iraq have already been made.... no more countries will fall as a result of this, no dictators blamed over it etc etc.

Will the result of all this be more of the same law enforcement and intelligence practices or will something shift (public sentiment, policy, planning, practice, strategies) ?

I agree that things will not change dramatically, at least not in the short run. Britain has indeed been engaged long before Islamic terrorism boomed and certainly this is NOT Britain's 9/11...i believe the aim of those attacks was to maximize fear and not the body count.

I believe that this kind of terrorism cannot be really beaten but merely contained. Treating the symptoms of it and not its causes does not resolve much. Having said that, i believe that Britain sooner or later will lax its traditional support to Israel and push towards an independent Palestine (the US's already doing it), as well as seek for the quickest possible disengagement from Iraq, something that is going to be far from easy...

[SHAM]

What most dont realise is that the long term plan for london is in play, and has been for quite some time. A the long term plan was put into play long ago when the IRA started bombing there, which is why there is the stiff-upper lip from londoners, a response second to none by the emergency services and wall to wall cctv coverage of streets buses and tubes in london.
Unless the perpetrators are invisible the security services will be knowing what happened very soon if not already.

[RecceGuy]

What most dont realise is that the long term plan for london is in play, and has been for quite some time. A the long term plan was put into play long ago when the IRA started bombing there, which is why there is the stiff-upper lip from londoners, a response second to none by the emergency services and wall to wall cctv coverage of streets buses and tubes in london.
Unless the perpetrators are invisible the security services will be knowing what happened very soon if not already.

Eaxctly... we have been living with this kind of threat for the last 30 years so it is nothing new. Nothing noticeable will be seen to be happening on the streets and as others have pointed out it will be business as usual.

[roland]

And why not do something clever for once ? work with those who know the best the threat ?
I'm speaking of the French. Oh no impossible, everybody knows that apart the superior anglos we only have incapable monkeys isn't it ?
Just in case here is the one that can help you: Jean Louis Bruguere: http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue69/article88.asp?issue_id=69&article_id=88

[Hydro]

And why not do something clever for once ? work with those who know the best the threat ?
I'm speaking of the French. Oh no impossible, everybody knows that apart the superior anglos we only have incapable monkeys isn't it ?
Just in case here is the one that can help you: Jean Louis Bruguere: http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue69/article88.asp?issue_id=69&article_id=88

Jesus, give it a rest. France isn't the be all and end all. If the Security Services need the help of the French, I'm sure it'd be submitted in writing. What is the massive chip on your shoulder about all Brits hating the French? It was only a bit of ribbing over the Olympics. We have had enough **** from terrorism ourselves to know a thing or two.

In the meantime, shut up.

[roland]

Jesus, give it a rest. France isn't the be all and end all. If the Security Services need the help of the French, I'm sure it'd be submitted in writing. What is the massive chip on your shoulder about all Brits hating the French? It was only a bit of ribbing over the Olympics. We have had enough **** from terrorism ourselves to know a thing or two.

In the meantime, shut up.

It's even more worrying to know so well and do so many mistakes. Do you know how London is called inside the French services ? Londonistan. And it well deserved this name. Hell we even had to send illegally some spy to spot the most dangerous clerics and leaders at your place : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10126643
Ok that was before september 2001 but that was 15 years France was warning UK and the USA. And after 2001, they continued to ignore our expertise. Of course you are so superior and the French can't be right isn't it ? this thread is about what to do. I reply: change attitude. you STFU if you have nothing interesting to say.

[Hydro]

Jesus, give it a rest. France isn't the be all and end all. If the Security Services need the help of the French, I'm sure it'd be submitted in writing. What is the massive chip on your shoulder about all Brits hating the French? It was only a bit of ribbing over the Olympics. We have had enough **** from terrorism ourselves to know a thing or two.

In the meantime, shut up.

It's even more worrying to know so well and do so many mistakes. Do you know how London is called inside the French services ? Londonistan. And it well deserved this name. Hell we even had to send illegally some spy to spot the most dangerous clerics and leaders at your place : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10126643
Ok that was before september 2001 but that was 15 years France was warning UK and the USA. And after 2001, they continued to ignore our expertise. Of course you are so superior and the French can't be right isn't it ? this thread is about what to do. I reply: change attitude. you STFU if you have nothing interesting to say.

I'm not giving any attitude here. I've never ever ever said that the French can't be right. But believe me, they CAN be wrong, just like CIA, MI5, MI6, FBI, SAS, DGSE, you name it, they can be wrong and right. You're starting to sound like some of the Israelis here, that you are persecuted by everyone and that the world would be better if we just listened to you.

What you are saying here won't change a damn thing, and unless you categorise your anti-Anglo cack as interesting, then you should also "STFU". In the meantime, our pointless argument is cluttering a perfectly good thread, so in the interests of staying OT, I am breaking off.

[roland]

I'm not giving any attitude here. I've never ever ever said that the French can't be right. But believe me, they CAN be wrong, just like CIA, MI5, MI6, FBI, SAS, DGSE, you name it, they can be wrong and right. You're starting to sound like some of the Israelis here, that you are persecuted by everyone and that the world would be better if we just listened to you.


In my post "you" was Britain and America. Britain let enough of those b@stard be recruited and funded in Londonistan for too long. That's not anti-Anglo cack that.
Just a name: rachid Ramda: BRITAIN has agreed to extradite an Algerian man held for nearly 10 years on a French arrest warrant on suspicion of involvement in Paris bomb attacks in 1995 that killed eight, the Home Office has said.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15557464-1702,00.html
10 years ! 10 years to extrade one of those fvucker and he isn't in France already. Imagine the contrary that it was France that spent 10 years to extrade a terrorist to Britain.
When I say change your attitude I say UK and USA change attitude and stop this sens of superiority while your incompetence is so obvious. Then we'll have result.

ciao.