UH-60 Medivac Goes Down in Iraq, Killing 9

[He219]

There were no survivors among the nine American soldiers aboard the medical evacuation helicopter that crashed about 2:20 p.m. near the city of Fallujah, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt. The cause of the crash was unknown, he said. Fallujah, west of Baghdad, is a flash point of the resistance against the U.S. occupation where rebels previously have shot down U.S. helicopters.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20040108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


RIP
:(

[farmgirl]

There were no survivors among the nine American soldiers aboard the medical evacuation helicopter that crashed about 2:20 p.m. near the city of Fallujah, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt. The cause of the crash was unknown, he said. Fallujah, west of Baghdad, is a flash point of the resistance against the U.S. occupation where rebels previously have shot down U.S. helicopters.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20040108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


RIP
:(


Damn it.... we lose more soldiers in chopper crashes than anything else it seems. RIP :(

[Sean85]

:( RIP

[Argyll]

:( RIP

[oldsoak]

:( - RIP

[George W. Bush]

A lotta birds are shot down because obviously someone on the ground can walk around with an AA missile launcher without being bothered.

Why don't we have people patrolling every square inch in the Sunni triangle?

[Argyll]

Have you seen the size of the Sunni Trangle?
Almost impossible to have large concentrations of troops there at once,it also means the enemy know where you are and can bring in DF onto your position
Man Pads are also easily concealed in vehicles etc

[tony6]

:( RIP

[mustamato]

A lotta birds are shot down because obviously someone on the ground can walk around with an AA missile launcher without being bothered.

Why don't we have people patrolling every square inch in the Sunni triangle?

And that also shows a bit what the ordinary Iraqis think of the occupants when they don´t do anything against the guys that walks around with a 1.5 meter tube on their shoulder.

[Trigger]

And that also shows a bit what the ordinary Iraqis in the Sunni Triangle think of the occupants when they don´t do anything against the guys that walks around with a 1.5 meter tube on their shoulder.

RIP

[Guttorm]

Do we know it was shot down? Or could it be piloterror or technical?

RIP

[Uncle Chô]

According to what I watched on the ******* TV, a farmer who spoke in Arabic (?) repeated the word : " Mujahedeens " (at least this is what I understood ;) )

Later, they said in the Western media a SAM was fired at a pair of helos. The missile hit the tail of the MedEvac aircraft and broke the fuselage in half before the airframe crashed.

2 Blackhawks from the SAR QRF (I guess) later landed under the protection of 2 OH-58.

This is a rural countryside (potatoes fields), it is easy to ambush choppers. You can't put a soldier every 10 yards and of course you won't have a " I saw a SAM laucnher " Toll Free number for the locals...

[He219]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040108/t/r4078670698.jpg
larger (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040108/ids_photos_wl/r4078670698.jpg)


Mohammed Ahmed al-Jamali, a farmer who lives close to the crash site, said he heard the whoosh of a rocket, saw it hit the helicopter in the tail and watched the chopper crash in flames.

Al-Jamali, 27, said he rushed to the scene but found all aboard dead.

"I was in the farm, I heard the sound, looked up and I saw the rocket hit. It hit it in the tail," al-Jamali said.

He said there were two helicopters in the air, both with the distinctive red crosses of medical evacuation craft, and that the second one was hit.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20040108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[Uncle Sam]

I heard the soldiers aboard were 82nd Airborne... Green Canopy and Blue Skies... RIP

[NcDeuce]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between helicopter crashes/shootdowns in the Iraqi conflict and the Vietnam War.

I think we should be flying during the night where we have the advantage due to our technology but there's no doubt the brass over the pond is trying. Sometimes, you just gotta fly during the daytime.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library8/nightvi.jpg

[mustamato]

I think we should be flying during the night where we have the advantage due to our technology but there's no doubt the brass over the pond is trying. Sometimes, you just gotta fly during the daytime.

I don´t think the IR-missile cares if its day or night. Since they lock on the engine and the heat, and the fact that it´s colder in the air during the night it even increases the chance of actually hitting the helicopter. Not to mention that it´s easier for the insurgents to hide during the night.

[NcDeuce]

Have any of the choppers been brought down by IR missiles?

[mustamato]

Have any of the choppers been brought down by IR missiles?

Yes. I very much doubt that they were firing with RPG-7´s at the helicopters. More probably with SA-7 surface to air missiles. It´s guidance is a uncooled Pbs passive infrared homing seeker.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/sa-7-DFST8304944_JPG.jpg


I think we should be flying during the night where we have the advantage due to our technology but there's no doubt the brass over the pond is trying. Sometimes, you just gotta fly during the daytime.

Have you used NVG´s? If so, then you know that they are not the like in those computer games where everything is crisp clear, except for the fact that everything is little green of course. The night is usually the friend of insurgents/guerillas rather than their enemy. It is much easier to hide, and they are not retarded, they know that the americans have NVG´s and even worse, thermal imagers to some extenth and are of course adapting their tactics to it...

[Argyll]

I think you'll find that most of them have ,over that of the RPG's,cause it's one shot that's getting them each time,and as you've pointed out elsewhere the Somali's fire dozens at each BlackHawk to bring it down.
Either that or these guys who are firing at the Helo's are pro's not ragtag run of the mill insurgents.
The IR's are fire and forget,the RPG is ambush techgnique,you get it wrong you miss,then you got the reload and by this time someone will have spotted the rocket(hopefully)from the 1st one 2nd shot the helo's say what 200-300 m's away chances of hitting it less than 25% even a good shot would struggle.

[NcDeuce]

Hairy situations

[Uncle Chô]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between helicopter crashes/shootdowns in the Iraqi conflict and the Vietnam War.

I think we should be flying during the night where we have the advantage due to our technology but there's no doubt the brass over the pond is trying. Sometimes, you just gotta fly during the daytime.

In Vietnam, the NVA/VC used SA-7 from 1972 only. Most of the downed aircrafts were shot by bullets/shells/RPG while flying at low altitude and during landings/takes off.

Up to 1971, almost 4 100 choppers were lost, 1 800 of them directly from ennemy fires, the remaining 2 300 from non combat accidents.

Nowdays, a shoulder missile could hit any chopper, day or night, low or high. It seems the crews did not had time to launch IR flares to jam the heat seeker. That is the point.

Another issue is the vulnerability of the UH-60. It started in Grenada (a dozen machines written off) until today. It does not protect the crew as advertised by Sikorsky when under developement in the late 70s. I do not see many difference with an old Huey.

The Army increased the helo flights because it was found safer than road travels.

We don't know how many hours are flying per month and what does the losses represent in percentage. Every crash is a sad news to everyone and a tragedy to the general public but it is maybe "minimal" by military's standarts...

[NcDeuce]

Another issue is the vulnerability of the UH-60. It started in Grenada (a dozen machines written off) until today. It does not protect the crew as advertised by Sikorsky when under developement in the late 70s. I do not see many difference with an old Huey.


The Black Hawk flies much faster, especially at higher altitudes.

The UH-60 has about twice the range of the Huey and the Hawk can refuel in flight.

The Huey can carry 14 rockets and a machine gun while the Hawk can carry two 7.62 mm mini gun and if the mission calls for it then lots of rockets (many more than 14)

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/mh-60g-19990803hh60x2.jpg

UH-60/MH-60/HH-60 versus UH-1, The Black Hawk wins! ;)

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-1-dvic327.jpg

[Uncle Chô]

Another issue is the vulnerability of the UH-60. It started in Grenada (a dozen machines written off) until today. It does not protect the crew as advertised by Sikorsky when under developement in the late 70s. I do not see many difference with an old Huey.
Take your time reading...

;)

I am not speaking of speed, weaponery etc.

:roll: We all know that.

[Argyll]

Can someone explain if this bird came down almost intact how the 9 GI's were killed?
I seen some pics and the Helo looked ok?

[Maverick77]

Some Iraqi farmer said it was almost blown in half.

By the casualties he might be right.

[Argyll]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1188515.jpg

Must've been a very hard landing,what a nightmare scenario!I can't understand why these Helo's are not protected by Apache's,it's clear that something is wrong with the doctrine of using helo's in daytime!

[He219]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040109/capt.sge.ukg13.090104004101.photo00.default-380x236.jpg

Smoke billows from a US military UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter outside Nuamiya, 5km southeast of the restive town of Fallujah, after it crashed while making an emergency landing.(AFP/Sabah Arar)

Didn't look 'blown in half' to me ....

[Maverick77]

A C-5 also got hit

one of these times those transport planes arent going to be so lucky like they were everytime they got hit so far and unfortunatly a lot of men will be KIA.

[Sierra]

RIP :(
Is it official now that it was shot down or is it not 100% yet?

[NcDeuce]

Uncle Chô wrote:

Another issue is the vulnerability of the UH-60. It started in Grenada (a dozen machines written off) until today. It does not protect the crew as advertised by Sikorsky when under developement in the late 70s. I do not see many difference with an old Huey.


The Black Hawks have been upgraded very much since Grenada. Grenada was pretty much the first combat mission for the 160th. They are extremely tough and can take hits from RPGs and continue the mission.

The only thing: If you take out the tail rotor or main rotor, goodbye chopper. That's a setback, all the insurgents know where to aim.

If you remember in the Battle of Mogadishu, only two were shot down while dozens and dozens of other 160th birds kept flying. One of the Hawks even took an RPG hit (which resulted in the loss of a Delta sniper's leg and knocked the co-pilot lights out) but the badly injured pilot was able to make an emergency landing near the airfield.

I remember reading an article and another time talking to a TFR veteran about the chopper crews counting the holes in the birds. Amazing machines w/ amazing men!

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Its sad that they would target medical helo's.


RIP

[DE_Six]

RIP :(

[Ballistic]

Its sad that they would target medical helo's.


RIP

I dont think they care what they target.

Rest in Piece. :(

[Andyman]

RIP comrads :(

[Ratamacue]

RIP.

[Alpha Leader]

RIP :(

[Alpha Leader]

RIP :(

[Uncle Sam]

One of the guys aboard that chopper was a Ranger that was in Somolia. Yes, Black Hawk Down. He was on his way to see a Doctor because he had been diagnosed with cancer.

About the look of this chopper on the ground...I'm guessing the rocket hit somewhere behind the door towards the rear of the aircraft ("The Hot Seat" for those of us who know where that is), and shrapnel along with the impact probably did the deed.

RIP.

[Rantanplan]

RIP :(

[Argyll]

Heartbreaking stuff Rip Cord!

[marktigger]

sorry to hear about the Medichawk met some of the crews in Kuwait nice bunch.

I know this is a little insensitive but 1. there is alot of UH60's going down and 2 where they not designed to be crash resistant.

[Uncle Sam]

Definitely is. I read about it in my local paper. He was from my area in Florida.

[NcDeuce]

http://photo.worldnews.com/PhotoArchive//uploads/2004/1/9/uploaded-41516_large.jpg

R.I.P.

[Dalleer]

It is truly sad to hear that the "Iraqi resistance" hit a medical chopper this time, but then again it's not like they would really mind who they're hitting as long as the target's American.

[Argyll]

I hate to say this guys but I didn't see anything on that helo to mark it as a Medevac,and I sure have not seen the red cross on any helo's in Iraq so far,not that this downing makes any difference to the insurgents,they shot down a helo,and 9 GI's are dead because of it

[Uncle Chô]

Argyll, the above picture is of the 2 QRF birds that landed on the crash site.

The Red Cross markings on the UH-60Q are very small in size anyway. Hard to notice from the ground. And I don't think they care about after all :( Plus this is a Muslim country. Maybe the Red Cross is not allowed on vehicles.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-60q-image007.jpg
(Picture from archive, not from OIF)

The bigger the Red Cross, the easier for the ennemy to aim at the choppers ! (see what happened in Indochina and Vietnam) :|

[NcDeuce]

I hate to say this guys but I didn't see anything on that helo to mark it as a Medevac,and I sure have not seen the red cross on any helo's in Iraq so far,not that this downing makes any difference to the insurgents,they shot down a helo,and 9 GI's are dead because of it

Yeah good point. I don't think the red cross should be on there but that's just me, red and white makes it easy to spot and clearly indentifies a medical unit.

[Argyll]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1188515.jpg
As far as I'm aware the Red cros markings are usually very visible for the exact purposes as to be seen.
But I doubt the insurgents would care less if it was carrying 15 GI's or 15 nuns!


The red cross is seen on plenty of vehicle in Iraq mate

[Uncle Sam]

I don't know about you...But you can CLEARLY see the red cross on the side of a Medevac chopper, from quite a distance.

[Argyll]

Thats why This may have been a standard bird carrying out MEDEVAC duties?

[NcDeuce]

http://www.benning.army.mil/498th/decklanding2.jpg

http://www.benning.army.mil/498th/axp.jpg

:|

[gaz]

One of the guys aboard that chopper was a Ranger that was in Somolia. Yes, Black Hawk Down. He was on his way to see a Doctor because he had been diagnosed with cancer.


His name was Aaron Weaver, on October 3rd 1993 he was a Sergeant in B/3/75 and a driver in the ground convoy during the Battle of the Black Sea. When he died he was a Chief Warrant Officer and was serving as a Kiowa Warrior pilot. He was 32 and was married with a young daughter.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/7666466.htm

[eggroll]

One of the guys aboard that chopper was a Ranger that was in Somolia. Yes, Black Hawk Down. He was on his way to see a Doctor because he had been diagnosed with cancer.

About the look of this chopper on the ground...I'm guessing the rocket hit somewhere behind the door towards the rear of the aircraft ("The Hot Seat" for those of us who know where that is), and shrapnel along with the impact probably did the deed.

RIP.

No he had a waiver allowing him in Iraq, diagnosed last year with testicular cancer, yet he was in the fight.... btw, his brother is a Black Hawk pilot over there now.

[eggroll]

Oh yeah the ' Hawk was from a medevac unit here at Ft. Carson CO.
along with the crew.