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Thor
07-11-2005, 04:49 PM
I love that tank, best one ever :)

JoaMei
07-11-2005, 04:53 PM
I love that tank, best one ever :)

I think the Panther was cooler and more advanced ;)

http://members.tripod.com/~dietmagic/11.jpg

tenda
07-11-2005, 04:56 PM
I love that tank, best one ever :)

I think the Panther was cooler and more advanced ;)

http://members.tripod.com/~dietmagic/11.jpg
...i like both... ;)

StukaJr
07-11-2005, 07:18 PM
This one took some damage - I'm not sure of the history of the vehicle or if the penetrations were achieved in combat or the test range.

On display in Lenino-Snegiri (near Moscow).

http://www.tanxheaven.com/nic/tiger1snegiri/PzKpfw_VI_Snegiri_2005_30.JPG

http://www.tanxheaven.com/nic/tiger1snegiri/tiger1snegiri.htm

Kubinka's Tiger I

http://www.tanxheaven.com/nic/tiger1kubinka2005/PzKpfw_VI_Kubinka_2005_01.JPG

http://www.tanxheaven.com/nic/tiger1kubinka2005/tiger1kubinka2005.htm

If that's the number "100" Tiger - that's the very first Tiger ever deployed, bogged down in the mud and bitterly contested until the Soviets got the upper hand. It's certainly painted as a later war Tiger belonging to the sPzAbt 505, however the Tiger captured in August of '42 near Leningrad would have belonged to sPzAbt 502 "Mammut"...

There are different sources, that state that two "Tigers" appeared in Kubinka at the second half of the 1942 - one, left completely intact and another, providing valueble balistic tests for finding out the weak spots in the armor.

Onyks
07-11-2005, 07:48 PM
One of my favorite German tanks has to be the "Tiger II" with Porsche turret.

StukaJr
07-11-2005, 08:09 PM
One of my favorite German tanks has to be the "Tiger II" with Porsche turret.

Both vehicles had the turrets designed and produced by the Krupp - the first 50 Tiger II's reffered to as "Porsche Turret"s have nothing of the Porsche's design at all... It's quite a confusing story, but in short - it's a Henshel designed chassis, fitted with prototype Krupp turrets designed for a canceled Porsche's Tiger II prototype(s). Known as Typ 180 (Turm Vorne) and Typ 181 (Turm Hinten)...

"Porsche's Turret" carried less ammo the the "Henshel's" "Production" Turret and had one serious flaw - the lower front portion of a mantlet created a large shot trap, which in turn deflected shells down into thinly protected driver's compartment. On few occassions, Tiger II's were disabled by HE shells, deflected in this very manner and causing a critical kill... But I digress - it is pretty damn sexy!

StukaJr
07-11-2005, 08:15 PM
My favorite German tank of WWII:

Modified with Pz-III cupola

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/gert34_5.jpg

Straight out, T-34-76 Model '41

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/ger_t34.jpg

T-34-76 Model '42

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/t3476.jpg

FlakPanzer T-34(r)

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/flakt34_s.jpg

Come to think of it - the best German tank of the WWII p-)

But not to stray from the subject:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/cttig.jpg

Marshal Zhukov, inspecting the first captured Tiger I Fhrul production belonging to the "Mammut" in Aug '42

Onyks
07-11-2005, 08:22 PM
StukaJr, thanks a lot for the information, I had no idea as to why there were two types but now atleast I do, that is one hell of a flaw too even though it was a brilliant design.

StukaJr
07-11-2005, 08:36 PM
StukaJr, thanks a lot for the information, I had no idea as to why there were two types but now atleast I do, that is one hell of a flaw too even though it was a brilliant design.

It appears that Henshell had a lot of favorites in the higher ups, which could be an explanation for the Porsche's designs always given a red flag. Tiger II(P) has similar engine disposition to that of the Merkava tank.

VK4502(P) (Turm Vorne)

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/tigerii_mrinaldi1.jpg

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/tigerii_mrinaldi3.jpg

Source for the model and the author:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/vk4502_mrinaldi.html

VK4501(P) (Turm Hinten)

http://www.accurate-armour.com/Graphics/K21Ha.jpg
http://www.accurate-armour.com/Graphics/K21Hb.jpg

A good article on creation of PzKmpfWgn VI Tiger II Ausf. B can be found here:

http://pedg.org/panzer/public/website/pz5.htm

Together with a lot of other useful info.

Zarathustra
07-11-2005, 09:00 PM
Nice pics

StukaJr
07-11-2005, 09:51 PM
Soviets caught 10 or so Tiger B's (production models) in an ambush in the first enagement in Poland, August 10th 1944. It's worth mentioning that 20 Tiger B's set out in the initial attack, 10 of which broke down after less then 20km march.

If you read Russian:
http://www.battlefield.ru/battles/battle16_r.html

Soviets tested the 2 of the Tiger B's:

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/weapons7_r.html

Some rough translation from ВАЛЕРИЙ ПОТАПОВ's article

It took two captured vehicles to build one opperational. The cooling system could not cope with 30 degree Celcius temperatures, different breakdowns, track tenshion having to be regulated every 10-15 km, Not to mention tracks snapping on turns. The actual fuel expendature happened to be 900 liters for 80 kilometers (700 as noted in the manual)


Before:

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/043.jpg

And After:

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/044.jpg

Number 25 is SU-100's AP round, number 23 is 88mm from 400 meters - hits on the turret front. The 88mm exited through the rear of the turret.

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/039.jpg

Exit hole in the rear of the turret

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/040.jpg

Chassis frontal plate - 100mm and 122mm AP from 1000 - 1500 meters

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/037.jpg

122mm AP from 1500 meters, some kind of "sharp tip" SABOT round...

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/038.jpg

122mm HE round, cracks the side of the turret

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/pics/042.jpg

Special notes:

Seams broke and cracks formed in the frontal body armor plate from partial penetrations by 3-4 100mm, 122mm and 152mm AP or HE rounds, breaking the transmission and disabling the vehicle. (from ranges of 500m -1000m)

Hits from 100mm and 122mm on the seams of the frontal body plates, resulted in complete penetration at distance of 500 - 600m

Hits from 100mm and 122mm on the front of the turret achieve complete penetration at 500m - 1000m.

Side of the body and turret are penetrated by American 76mm and Soviet 85mm at ranges of 800m - 2000m. It is noted, that American 76mm has 1.5-2 times the range to the Soviet 85mm, probably due to the supperiority of ammo.

Soviet 76mm from Zis-3 and F-34 could not penetrate side armor or the turret. (This is weird, since half of the tanks in the ambush were the T-34-76's).

The tests noted the lower quality to the armor composite as compared to the Tiger I, Panther and Ferdinand tanks. There was a high descrepency in the quality of the frontal armor from the side and rear armor.

And from "Death Traps" by Belton Y. Cooper, one can gather that the seams were of a lot poorer quality - I don't know the technical terminology, but there were quite a few corners cut during production...