Saddam picture news!!

[richardben23]

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1258&storyid=733336


Secret photo of a cowering dictator

By BRAD CLIFTON

January 9, 2004

THIS appears to be the moment Saddam Hussein was dragged from his hole and exposed to the world – but it is a snapshot the US military did not want the world to see.


The photograph, apparently taken in the seconds after Saddam's capture near Tikrit last month, appeared for the first time yesterday on a military-related website.

The image shows a US soldier posing for the camera as he pins the bearded dictator's body and face to the dirt.


A clearly-distressed Saddam lies on his stomach as members of the US 4th Infantry Division surround him.


US military officials refused to confirm if the photograph was genuine.


The photo was published on the US website Military.com after it was supplied to one of the site's contributors, former journalist John Weisman.


"This photograph of Saddam Hussein in the moment of his capture was e-mailed to me by a friend in special forces who was damn proud of what his former colleagues in Iraq had accomplished when they pulled the dictator out of his hole," Mr Weisman said. "I thought the photo deserved wide dissemination."


Mr Weisman said he had refused military requests to remove the photograph from the site. The officials had claimed it was a security risk.


"While the soldiers in the field may have loved the idea of showing Saddam au naturel, not everyone felt that way," Mr Weisman wrote on the website.


"In fact, Military.com received a call from an official asking them to remove the photo for national security reasons.


"To me, this official was being myopic and his perception has not been echoed by the guys in the trenches, who obviously know a great picture when they see one.


"I'd like to see this photograph posted in every public building in the US so Americans can be reminded to thank the American soldiers who put their lives on the line every day to keep this nation safe and free."




Military.com spokesperson Anne Dwane insisted the picture was genuine.


"Much of our material comes in anonymously and, given our military membership, we have no reason to doubt it,' Ms Dwane said. "It certainly looks like Saddam."


If the authenticity of the picture is proved, it would have been taken by a member of the 600-strong force that captured Saddam at a farmhouse near Tikrit.


Although official army photographers were on hand to record the moment, the picture may have been snapped by a soldier, many of whom were known to carry small cameras while on patrol.

[hood]

There's more of these new photos here:

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Operation_Red_Dawn

[Seoulstriker]

excellent collection, hood! i'm wondering how you managed to get the ORIGINAL photo (without blurring). :)

[Argyll]

Cause it was posted on another site!!
Looks like an Iraqi translator getting some payback!!
Stupid asshole leaves his face for the world to see,way to seal your own fate!

[Macs.]

Damn nice pics.
Waiting for the UBL Collection. p-)

[buckeyedoc]

Hey, Argyll...quick question for ya. What makes you think that this picture is a violation of the Geneva Convention?

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/operation_red_dawn/abz.jpg

[One?]

Hey, Argyll...quick question for ya. What makes you think that this picture is a violation of the Geneva Convention?

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/operation_red_dawn/abz.jpg

When US POWS were on TV all hell broke loose, everyone was saying its against the Geneva Convention.

but I guess you fail to see the connection...

[Uncle Sam]

It looks as if this guy is just "helping" Saddam out of the tunnel...Vigorously... ;)


"Well, there you go Saddam, nice and cozy...Don't get your face dirty...Turn it "this" way...mwaa, mwaaaa, mwaaaaaa (pinky to mouth style)..."
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/operation_red_dawn/abz.jpg

[Argyll]

Buckeyedoc,
Try reading all the posts before asking something that was answered in another thread.
I never said it was,I asked if it was there is a difference and it was answered but you obviously couldn't be bothered reading all of the posts otherwise you wouldn't have posted the same question here?

[Uncle Sam]

What is this....A witch hunt....geez!

[buckeyedoc]

Well, Argyll, it appears I've struck a nerve. Oh well, I posted it in 2 different locations because it was discussed in 2 different locations. You may or may not know, not everyone reads the posts with the pictures. Oh, by the way, I did read the other posts. Then again, I wouldn't want to take your message out of context, oh wait, I didn't.


From: Argyll (Jan 09, 2004 15:14 Eastern Standard Time)
This photo will now be in breach on Geneva conventions as he's now been declared an official POW.......expect it to be pulled soon!

[Deuterium]

Hey, Argyll...quick question for ya. What makes you think that this picture is a violation of the Geneva Convention?

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/operation_red_dawn/abz.jpg

When US POWS were on TV all hell broke loose, everyone was saying its against the Geneva Convention.

but I guess you fail to see the connection...

No you fail to understand what has happened here. There is fundamentaly a difference when someone leaks (for personal gain/fame) a picture and when a GOVERNMENT releases pictures of POWs.

[One?]

Hey, Argyll...quick question for ya. What makes you think that this picture is a violation of the Geneva Convention?

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/operation_red_dawn/abz.jpg

When US POWS were on TV all hell broke loose, everyone was saying its against the Geneva Convention.

but I guess you fail to see the connection...

No you fail to understand what has happened here. There is fundamentaly a difference when someone leaks (for personal gain/fame) a picture and when a GOVERNMENT releases pictures of POWs.

I know this wasn't published by the US government. But why would they allow soldeirs to take pictures of prisoners in the first place.

[Argyll]

Buckeyedoc,

Argyll said

Sky news reporting
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12970056,00.html

Does this mean that the photo's shown on this site of his capture are now against the geneva Convention,and will they subsequently be removed?



Edited
I see where you got that from yes I did post that on the photo's page,but only because this gous face was clearly shown,if you'd read the post in the General topics I opened the question of was it in breach of the convention!
If you'd read the debare you'll see that ir didn't matter to me or not!
But what it does is violate Mission OPSEC according to Ibstolidude!

[mustamato]

When those american POW´s during the war was showed on TV Rumsfeld had this to say.

"I will say this, the Geneva Convention indicates that it's not permitted to photograph and embarrass or humiliate prisoners of war, and if they do happen to be American or coalition ground forces that have been captured, the Geneva Convention indicates how they should be treated."

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7105&start=0

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/12/14/sprj.irq.main/vert.saddam.coalition.ap.jpg

[NcDeuce]

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive7.jpg

[Eviscerator]

Why would the Geneva Convention apply to pictures taken before he was declared a POW?

Also, after a quick look through an online version of the convention, i could find no mention of the prohibition of photographs of POW's, it mentions public curiosity, humiliation and public insult but these are open to interperatation, being locked away on some US Army base in Iraq doesnt seem to leave Saddam open to public curiosity, public insult or humiliation.:


Art. 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, ***, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment ****ounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. (2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.


Art. 13. Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.


http://www.globalissuesgroup.com/geneva/intro.html
http://www.globalissuesgroup.com/geneva/convention3.html (Article on Prisoners of War)

Also, on that webpage there seems to be an interesting paragraph:


Combatants who deliberately violate the rules about maintaining a clear separation between combatant and noncombatant groups — and thus endanger the civilian population — are no longer protected by the Geneva Convention.

Surely this means that Saddam is not protected by the Geneva Convention, his army deliberately placed themselves in proximity to civilians hoping that the allies would not attack them there, in one instance, in Basra i believe, they were using a school playground to house a ZU-23 AA cannon.

[Some Guy]

edited by moi.

[Whistler]

For one, that was not released by the government.

2nd, that was before he was declared a POW. At that point he was just a dictator pulled out of a hole. I don't think he deserves the status POW anyway, thats for soldiers.

And I don't think the Geneva convention is cared about much in Iraq. When you have "freedom fighters" targetting medevacs, blowing up civvie hospitals, etc. suddenly POW pictures don't seem like as much of a bad thing.

[TALOS]

When those american POW´s during the war was showed on TV Rumsfeld had this to say.

"I will say this, the Geneva Convention indicates that it's not permitted to photograph and embarrass or humiliate prisoners of war, and if they do happen to be American or coalition ground forces that have been captured, the Geneva Convention indicates how they should be treated."

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7105&start=0

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/12/14/sprj.irq.main/vert.saddam.coalition.ap.jpg
The complaints are the mistreatment in the photos and videos of american personnel. Showing them for the purpose of news in good condition prolly wouldnt raise anybodies eyebrows

[Uncle Chô]

Apparent Saddam capture photos surface

Unauthorized photos circulating on Internet
Thursday, January 15, 2004 Posted: 11:57 PM EST (0457 GMT)

(CNN) -- New photographs that appear to be of Saddam Hussein on the day of his capture by U.S. forces are circulating around the Internet one month after the ousted Iraqi leader was found in a narrow hole in the ground.

One photo apparently shows Saddam shortly after he was pulled from the infamous "spider hole" where he had been hiding on December 13.

Someone who could be U.S. soldier, a translator or another civilian working with the U.S. military is holding down Saddam on the ground.

Some people have suggested this image shows Saddam bleeding from the mouth, but examination of the photograph has been inconclusive.
Pentagon officials did not release the photographs nor will they officially verify their authenticity and even comment on them.

The photographs appear to have been taken by someone in, or working closely with, the U.S. military when troops nabbed Saddam on a farm compound near the village of Ad Dawr on the banks of the Tigris River outside Tikrit.

Soldiers said afterward that when Saddam was found he said, in English: "I am Saddam Hussein. I am the president of Iraq. I want to negotiate."

The soldiers replied: "President Bush sends his regards."

Capt. Desmond Bailey, who led the close-in security team as part of Operation Red Dawn, recalled at the time that "it wasn't the blaze of glory we expected."

One of the new photos shows dozens of military personnel gathered around as Saddam is led into one of his former palaces in Baghdad that is now serving as a military headquarters.

Although CNN has not independently verified the authenticity or source of the photos, they do appear genuine, according to a senior U.S. government official.

Certain key details known about the event match with the photographs.

For instance, Saddam appears to be wearing the same clothes and the same beard as seen in the pictures officially released by the U.S. military.

Another new photograph of the box of U.S. currency found with Saddam matches the green case of $750,000 dollars displayed by the U.S. military after his capture.

A new picture of Col. James Hickey, commander of the 1st Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, who directed the 600 troops who took part in the capture, matches other photos of Hickey.

The photos don't reveal much more about Operation Red Dawn, whose mission was to capture or kill Saddam, but they do give a little more of a look at how Saddam was handled in the hours after his capture

The Pentagon is reportedly not happy the photographs got out.

But it is uncertain anyone will be reprimanded, because almost every soldier carries a pocket camera these days, and that makes it unlikely whoever took the photos will be identified.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.

[hood]

Actually here's the real question. There's one photo that I don't have but that showed up on military.com. If anyone knows where or has this one that's not already watermarked, please send it in to me so I can post it locally. Thanks.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachments/saddampic.jpg