Abrams hit by.... well nobody know exactly by what...

[Marmot1]

2 M1a1 Abrams MBT one hit by a mine (this one without turreat) and couple of photos of other one hit probably by RPG-7WR the aromur was penetraten on the right side projectile penetrated also seat and some instruments and then...penetrated other side of hull that mean both sides and whell cover were penetrated by one projectile!!!

http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams08.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams03.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams07.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams04.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams05.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams06.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams02.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams01.jpg
http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams09.jpg

[Operation Ivy]

I think this was already pictured. :(

And why all the hate on the Abrams! :|

[Marmot1]

I think this was already pictured. :(

And why all the hate on the Abrams! :|

well if yes sorry but AFAIK only couple of them not all and this new RPG is interesting it's warhed is probably capable to penetrate all!!! modern MBT's armour... can you imagine what will happen if they will receive more of them..

[Uncle Sam]

What kind of freakin' mine blows off the turret ??? Does anyone know the story behind these images ??? Fill me in, please.


http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams08.jpg

http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams03.jpg

[Seraphim]

Blue on blue......I dunno

[Whistler]

I read that for those mine pics they had a bunch of artillery rounds buried in the ground with a charge under them. Charge goes off, artillery rounds fire through the tank and blow off the turret.

Sounded kind of far out though, don't know how true it was.

[Uncle Sam]

It would have to be something like that, to blow off a turret...I would guess.

[Operation Ivy]

i find it hard to believe a mine could blow the turret off a Abrams...is it possible that it damaged it and that they pulled the turret off once they brang it to a junkyard.

[Marmot1]

It would have to be something like that, to blow off a turret...I would guess.

well text that was attached to this pict said that it was probably barrel filed with gasoline or other flamable liquid burried in road and in addition as a initiator anti tank mine, 2 tankers died, one was hevily wounded, another theory is that it were 3 antitank mines pleced one on the top of another and this technique sounds little palestinian to me (remember the merkavas lost to the same technique)

[Uncle Sam]

i find it hard to believe a mine could blow the turret off a Abrams...is it possible that it damaged it and that they pulled the turret off once they brang it to a junkyard.

I was leaning towards that conclusion also.

[He219]

Palestinians have knocked out and blown the turrets off IDF Tanks a couple of times using buried bombs/mines ......

Here (http://hot.ee/lahingutank2/news/destroyed-magach7-1.htm) is an article of a 100 kilo explosive that destroyed a Magach 7.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1822307.stm

[AFG]

how'd the crew fair?

[He219]

More information can be found Here (http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=solved.htm).

:)

[REMOV]

Palestinians have knocked out and blown the turrets off IDF Tanks a couple of times using buried bombs/mines
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_5092002_Merkava.jpg
Merkava Mk. 3 destroyed by IED (ca. 50 kilograms of explosives), 5 Sept. 2002, in the southern Gaza Strip, near the Kissufim crossing point.

[Merik]

Getting the turret blown off by mines or anti-tank weapons is no new thing.

[Marmot1]

http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=890
another pgoto of the 1st tank that was blown on "something" (probably mine placed atop of other) you can see that turreat "poped up" and inside tank is totaly demolished

And abrams "graveyard"

http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=837

A US "Abrams" MBT destroyed in Iraq by a rocket-propelled grenade. Another destroyed tank is seen in the background. (Photo sent by Dmitry Komolov)

Bradley repairing... note description (It's not mine it 's from the site where the pic come from)
http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=823

US soldiers in Iraq repairing a damaged track on a Bradley IFV. In the recent weeks US forces in Iraq experience increasing shortages of spare tracks, tires, spares for tanks and trucks, automatic rifles and medical supplies.

[Marmot1]

Sorr I couldn't resist look at the barrel text on this drowning Abrams...
http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=871
A US "Abrams" tank stuck in an irrigation canal near Tikrit. The inscription on the tank's main gun is symbolic of Bush's predicament in Iraq.
http://www.iraqwar.ru

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Sorr I couldn't resist look at the barrel text on this drowning Abrams...
http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=871
A US "Abrams" tank stuck in an irrigation canal near Tikrit. The inscription on the tank's main gun is symbolic of Bush's predicament in Iraq.
http://www.iraqwar.ru

Well thats a ****ty situation

[GazB]

It is very easy for a turret to get blown off a tank... all that is required is an internal explosion. A landmine that sets off the ammo in the hull would do it easily. Armour works both ways... it stops penetration but it also contains any internal explosions too. The Turret sits on its turret race... it obviously can't be welded or bolted to the hull so the explosive force just has to exceed the weight of the turret to blow it off. Think how much recoil one round generates... imagine 22 going off at once... and that is jsut the propellent. Add HEAT rounds and it would be quite enough to remove the turret.

[Kingpin]

Sorr I couldn't resist look at the barrel text on this drowning Abrams...
http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=871
A US "Abrams" tank stuck in an irrigation canal near Tikrit. The inscription on the tank's main gun is symbolic of Bush's predicament in Iraq.
http://www.iraqwar.ru

Funny twist of history. That was me who found and posted this pic to IraqWar :)

[ShotOver]

You both ****ing gay :D

[Eddie]

I fail to see the point in this thread. Both cases have been discussed over and over and both are months old. And yet someone makes claims of the RPG penetrating both sides of M1A1, which to my knowledge isn't the case.

Just a couple of places for more info:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4863
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5191

http://www.marinetimes.com/channel.php?GQID=292236

http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum13/HTML/002447.html
http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum13/HTML/002371.html

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/480-22.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/480-32.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/480-1.asp

[Mr. Nielsen]

In this case I think that the tank simply rolled over by the huge explosion, and the turret fell off. I think that normally the weight of the turret would keep it in place without much need for strong attachment to the hull.

In the pictures i see no burn marks or any other indications of internal explosions. The hull might not be penetrated at all.

http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams08.jpg

http://www.altair.com.pl/files/abrams03.jpg

[Uncle Sam]

The caption stated that this tank was destroyed by a "MINE". You show me an anti-tank "MINE" that can blow off a turret...And I'll give you a shiny new quarter...

Mr. Nielsen wrote:
In this case I think that the tank simply rolled over by the huge explosion, and the turret fell off. I think that normally the weight of the turret would keep it in place without much need for strong attachment to the hull.

That could've very well been the case.

[MaxPayne]

I think this was already pictured. :(

And why all the hate on the Abrams! :|

probably cuz they bring death :)

[Tygryssek]

BUSH & CO
"we will **** everything water" :lol:

[Javehn]

Anti Tank mines aren't placed one - one . They placed together and forming what is called "Mine scene" . Mine scene sometimes can become very suffisticated , and include anti personal mines , timer mechanisms , and so on . Usually , who prepares the mine scene , make shure that when tank is pooling on mine , it detonates all the other mines in the sector , causing devestating effect . Or it can be self made improvised high explosives stuffed thingies ( empty shell cases , boilers , everything that can hold HE inside ) , that trapped under the ground , and actived by different meassures .

The tank don't even have to be penetrated . The shock wave from the blast is enough to rip the inside mechanisms of the tanks , and even displace the tank turret .

[REMOV]

The caption stated that this tank was destroyed by a "MINE". You show me an anti-tank "MINE" that can blow off a turret...And I'll give you a shiny new quarter.....and the improvised mines also counts? ;)

And this M1 was AFAIR destroyed by IED made of the 125mm tank round (probably by the propellant charge).

[Uncle Sam]

REMOV Wrote:

..and the improvised mines also counts?
NO !

You must really want that Quarter... :D

Well ya know, it didn't specify a particular kind of mine or IED. But a "regular" anti-tank "mine" can't blow off a tank turret....Can it? Any EOD or explosives experts in here...?

[Operation Ivy]

Why cant we post happy pictures of tanks, and why does it always have to be destroyed Abrams pics? Im sure any modern would have had the same thing happen :(

So now for a happy pic woot

http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank29!T.jpg

[Herrmannek]

Why cant we post happy pictures of tanks, and why does it always have to be destroyed Abrams pics? Im sure any modern would have had the same thing happen :(


You know..everyone tries to blow best tank in neiberhood :)

[Mr. Nielsen]

Im sure any modern would have had the same thing happen :(

I'm sure It would more or less have been the same outcome with another modern tank. And I believe these cases don't reveal any serious flaws with the Abrams. Just a reminder that they, as well as other modern tanks, are not invulnerable.

[Operation Ivy]

Why cant we post happy pictures of tanks, and why does it always have to be destroyed Abrams pics? Im sure any modern would have had the same thing happen :(


You know..everyone tries to blow best tank in neiberhood :)

:hug: woot :hug: woot :hug: woot :hug: woot

[Uncle Sam]

So, has anyone got a definitive answer on what exactly went throught that tank...The "unknown" weapon system ??

[REMOV]

So, has anyone got a definitive answer on what exactly went throught that tank...The "unknown" weapon system ??It was probably the RPG-7VR (with tandem warhead) or... just lucky RPG-7 shot, thats all, no mysterious weapon. The M1Ax's side armor is simply vunerable to the modern RPG-7 warheads...

[Dennis G]

A site with some good info on the RPG-7VR
http://www.milparade.com/1999/35/058.htm

[Mudcat]

Kind'a looks like it rolled over when the mine(s) exploded and the turret came off when they rolled the hull back over. That would explain why parts of the turret basket look like they're bent to the side. Isn't the turret and basket held in by their weight only?

[Uncle Sam]

Thanks REMOV

[GazB]

Hmmm. you think it makes sense that a mine might have rolled a 69 ton tank, but not that the, say 20 odd, ton turret could have been blown off?

Interesting.

BTW

Operation Ivy... don't get too excited mate... I think he meant to say:

You know..everyone tries to blow up best tank in neiberhood.

...You'll have to keep spending money on that $2 hooker for oral ***.

AND

Herrmannek... it is Blow Up, not Blow ... the latter means something else entirely... :D

Also the images posted above are from two completely different incidents. One has been penetrated by an anti armour weapon, while the other has been destroyed by a mine.

Few Tanks have very good mine protection... and you can send that quarter to me RIP_Cord. The old type of mine that you run over with your track and it blows up if you are heavy enough... destroying track and wheels and doing internal damage are still quite common but mines with upward pointing shaped charge HE warheads with sensors that detect large metal object passing overhead are common too.
TM-89, PTM-3, TM-62M, TM-72 and PTM-1 are all anti tank mines that can be fitted influence fuses to allow then to detonate under the belly of a tank... the TM models created 3-4 inch diameter holes of 4 inches or more in the bottom of the tank, while the PTM models are not round or square, but long charges that can cut tracks.
If one of these weapons happened to detonate under the ammo stored in the hull then the turret would be blown off easily.

[Herrmannek]

Herrmannek... it is Blow Up, not Blow ... the latter means something else entirely... :D


This was made on purpose. I see you've got that little joke... :)

[Mudcat]

Actually if it's an A2 it weighs around 72 tons. :D Just be'n picky.

Anyway the ground looks like it tapers off and if it's at enough of an angle on soft enough ground wouldn't the mine(s) detonating under the tread be able to cause the tank to flip.

If there had been an internal explosion wouldn't there be more external burn damage? I know the Abrams has an automatic fire extinguishing system but wouldn't that be the equivilant of spit'n on a house fire if there was an internal ammo explosion? Also, doesn't the Abrams store all of its ammo in the rear ammo compartment (that is designed to blow outward in an internal explosion) to prevent that from happening? I wouldn't think that they would drive around with the ammo stored in the hull when they can safely store it in the rear of the turret.

I understand that the bottom of the hull is thinly armored and that a shaped charge can penetrate the underside but I still don't see any sign of burning. From the angle and distance to the turret it's hard to tell if the insides have been gutted out from fire.

Does anyone have the "official" reason behid the tanks destruction or some better/closer pictures?

[Marmot1]

Also the images posted above are from two completely different incidents. One has been penetrated by an anti armour weapon, while the other has been destroyed by a mine.


yeah check 1st post 1 line there is info that there are 2 tanks one blown up on a mine second one hit with something - probably prg but maybe recoilles rifle or some other ****...

also there is anther photo of this tank on 1st page of this topic you can notice burned sits and extensive damage to innside of tank, it is hard to find more photos since they ar clasified to internal use only and they leaked to publicity...

[Mudcat]

They must use realy, realy good paint on the Abrams. Most tanks that have suffered an internal explosion burn/scorch most of the paint off.

[Operation Ivy]

The ammo is stored behind blast doors(can remember what there called) which are in the back left near the loader

[JaegerWO]

Hello mates ,

We had at least one incident involving a British recon tank that made a turn in a wrong place causing it to lose it's turret etc. , of course it having a lot less tonnage it flipped.

For that effect they used fout TMA-type AT-mines piled 2 on top of each other then a 1-1,5 meter log to transfer pressure and then 2 mines under them. And the result were quite imaginable...

I was approx. 1,1 kilometres from the site when it happened and also "felt" the effects.

Just some thoughts

[Javehn]

Hello mates ,

We had at least one incident involving a British recon tank that made a turn in a wrong place causing it to lose it's turret etc. , of course it having a lot less tonnage it flipped.

For that effect they used fout TMA-type AT-mines piled 2 on top of each other then a 1-1,5 meter log to transfer pressure and then 2 mines under them. And the result were quite imaginable...

I was approx. 1,1 kilometres from the site when it happened and also "felt" the effects.

Just some thoughts

Interesting sharing . What happened to crue ? I pressume nothing good . When was that , and can you share mor info about that matter ? Was that after the operation over , or during it ? If it was after , did the tank drove on rode that haven't inspected , or watched before ?

[JaegerWO]

The blast killed 2 of the crew instantly but somehow 1 survived and didn't get too serious injuries ( at least that's what they told us ) ,
this happened after the war , near Kosovo/Serbian/Macedonian border , road had been inspected by some NGO , poorly by my opinion.

Also weather was one of the causing elements... It had been rainy and enough of land was washed away from that area giving possibility for the tank's track-turn to set of this charge.

Lot's of bad luck involved. And luck from several earlier vehicles that had used that particular road.

Thank God , my team was inserted via helicopter 5-6 hours earlier.

[GazB]

"The ammo is stored behind blast doors(can remember what there called) which are in the back left near the loader"

That is the ready to use ammo, what about the ammo stored in the hull?

[Operation Ivy]

From what i know all the ammo is behind blast doors

[GazB]

"From what i know all the ammo is behind blast doors"

That is the ammo in the rear of the turret... the ready to use rounds. What about the hull stored ammo... often around the driver... ie behind the heavy front armour.

[Uninen]

M1 without turret,

Demolished by blast from 3 or 4 AT-Mines..

Second set of pics was RPG-7.

(i have already proven this to scores of people and even US Army has faced the truth that it was PRG-7 or RPG-7V.)

:bash:

[Operation Ivy]

(i have already proven this to scores of people and even US Army has faced the truth that it was PRG-7 or RPG-7V.)

Yes we have pointed that out may times whats your point

[Uninen]

I think iveread 2 first pages of this..

I saw that you had not reached a conclusion..

Just said how it was.

;)

[Uncle Sam]

*Gets his "already dead horse" and begins to wallop it.*

[serbian boy]

I bet it was those damn shiqtars who planetd that mine near macedonian border :(
Also it's not Macedonian/Kosovo/Serbian border, what the **** is that supposed to mean you NATO ****! :fork:
Kosovo belongs to us so **** you!
CAMO CLOGA CRBINA CPASAVA!

[Hrvoje]

NATO-OTAN :hug: rules woot

[Parzival]

USA should buy the Leopard 2a5 tank.

[hank]

:cantbeli: here we go again

[Operation Ivy]

USA should buy the Leopard 2a5 tank.

Umm no :D

[Uninen]

USA should buy the Leopard 2a5 tank.

Umm no :D

Yeah..

2A6 EX is much better..

Better than anything else..

rofl

[Operation Ivy]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D

[navylt]

Alright boys, anit-tank mines did not take that turret off. If I recall, at least two South African 155mm rounds were detonated in tandem. What I don't recall is the mechanism used to triger the rounds.

[GazB]

The easiest way would be to use a simple pressure fuse (from a landmine) and connecting the 155mm rounds with det cord.

[Marmot1]

The easiest way would be to use a simple pressure fuse (from a landmine) and connecting the 155mm rounds with det cord.

Yeah maybe post pictures so everybody can prepare it at home... :cantbeli:

[wreck]

The easiest way would be to use a simple pressure fuse (from a landmine) and connecting the 155mm rounds with det cord.

Yeah maybe post pictures so everybody can prepare it at home... :cantbeli:
This was in the news also. Using electric door bells and artillery ammo makes a good IED, or the chechen way of combining mobile phones with IEDs.

[wreck]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D
To Op Ivy:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/sasu75/missile.WMV

say good night Leo!

[mustamato]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D
To Op Ivy:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/sasu75/missile.WMV

say good night Leo!

What kind of missile is that?

[wreck]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D
To Op Ivy:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/sasu75/missile.WMV

say good night Leo!

What kind of missile is that?
Swedish normal infantry issued top attack type.

[kinghk]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D
To Op Ivy:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/sasu75/missile.WMV

say good night Leo!

What kind of missile is that?
Swedish normal infantry issued top attack type.

BILL?

[mustamato]

Ahhh stop talking bout the Leo :-*$ :D
To Op Ivy:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/sasu75/missile.WMV

say good night Leo!

What kind of missile is that?
Swedish normal infantry issued top attack type.

Aaah the good old Bill. Then the tank is probably a old swedish Centurion,
but which one of them is beyond me though.


http://www.soldf.com/images/s_rb56_11-11_3.jpg
Rbs 56 Bill with the maximun speed of incredible 250 meters/sec, "top attack" :)

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-42039/81.jpg
Strv 81, bought in the 50´s, with a "tiny" main gun

http://student.educ.umu.se/~brnstn02/sda05v03/bilder/strv101.jpg
Strv 101, modernized Centurion with 105 mm and so forth

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-42039/1026.jpg
Strv 102, modernized Strv 81 (adding 105 mm gun, etc)

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-42039/104erp3.jpg
[i]Swedish Strv 104 (newer Centurion) with ERA