Good News From Iraq Thread - Stories Not Told by Big Media [Archive]

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walford

07-25-2005, 09:19 AM

You will notice that the majority of the sources are local/US gov't rather than national or international.

Rochester, N.Y. Marine, receives Navy Cross (http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723)
Marine Capt. Brian R. Chontosh received the Navy Cross Medal from the Commandant of the United States Marine Corps, Gen. Michael W. Hagee, during an awards ceremony Thursday at Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Training Center, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

Three other Marines received medals for valor at the same ceremony.

Chontosh, 29, from Rochester, N.Y. , received the naval service's second highest award for extraordinary heroism while serving as Combined Anti-Armor Platoon Commander, Weapons Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom March 25, 2003. The Medal of Honor is the highest military award.

While leading his platoon north on Highway 1 toward Ad Diwaniyah, Chontosh's platoon moved into a coordinated ambush of mortars, rocket propelled grenades and automatic weapons fire. With coalitions tanks blocking the road ahead, he realized his platoon was caught in a kill zone.

He had his driver move the vehicle through a breach along his flank, where he was immediately taken under fire from an entrenched machine gun. Without hesitation, Chontosh ordered the driver to advanced directly at the enemy position enabling his .50 caliber machine gunner to silence the enemy.

He then directed his driver into the enemy trench, where he exited his vehicle and began to clear the trench with an M16A2 service rifle and 9 millimeter pistol. His ammunition depleted, Chontosh, with complete disregard for his safety, twice picked up discarded enemy rifles and continued his ferocious attack.

When a Marine following him found an enemy rocket propelled grenade launcher, Chontosh used it to destroy yet another group of enemy soldiers.

When his audacious attack ended, he had cleared over 200 meters of the enemy trench, killing more than 20 enemy soldiers and wounding several others.

"They are the reflection of the Marine Corps type who's service to the Marine Corps and country is held above their own safety and lives," said Gen. Hagee, commenting on the four Marines who received medals during the ceremony. "I'm proud to be here awarding the second highest and third highest awards for bravery to these great Marines."

"These four Marines are a reflection of every Marine and sailor in this great battalion," said Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps, Sgt. Maj. John L. Estrada.

"I was just doing my job, I did the same thing every other Marine would have done, it was just a passion and love for my Marines, the experience put a lot into perspective," said Chontosh.

Batavia soldier receives state medal for combat valor (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050720/1038623.asp)
Staff Sgt. David Bellavia shows the Time magazine article in which his combat actions in Fallujah, Iraq, are featured.

David Bellavia went to Iraq to fight a war, not to become the poster child for the American soldier.

But being featured in a nearly 3,000-word cover story on the battle of Fallujah in a November 2004 issue of Time magazine can change the situation considerably.

On Tuesday night, the 29-year-old Army staff sergeant from Batavia received the Conspicuous Service Cross, New York's highest award for combat valor, in recognition of his actions in the battle that helped U.S. forces reclaim a city that was once an insurgent stronghold.

"I'm really humbled by (the award) and appreciative of it," Bellavia said. "I'm just trying to stay as realistic as possible about the whole thing."

A squad leader in the 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade, Bellavia was leading his soldiers on a pre-dawn house-by-house search for a pack of insurgents on a Fallujah street. After finding nothing while searching the first nine houses, the soldiers - all operating without sleep for two straight days - were ambushed by insurgents holed up inside the tenth.

The soldiers retreated from the house while a Bradley fighting vehicle pumped round after round into the building. Bellavia and another soldier then re-entered the house, where they traded gunfire with the remaining insurgents. Bellavia killed four insurgents and seriously wounded a fifth before he escaped.

Michael Ware, Time's Baghdad bureau chief, was embedded with the troops and used Bellavia's story to open his article about the U.S. assault on Fallujah, making Bellavia's actions known to a worldwide audience.

"How many people do you know who would go into a building facing certain death for theirsubordinates?" asked William D. Bellavia, David's father. "He went into that building knowing that if he didn't, his men would lose their hearts."

State Sen. George Maziarz, R-Newfane, became acquainted with Bellavia's father through the column that the elder Bellavia writes for several local newspapers. Maziarz called Bellavia monthly to check on David while he was deployed, and nominated him for the Conspicuous Service Cross after learning of the Fallujah gunbattle.

"It was a no-brainer," Maziarz said. "I put his name in immediately."

Bellavia, who served two tours in Iraq, also has been nominated for the Medal of Honor and the Distinguished Service Cross. He is home now with his wife, Deanna, and his 5-year-old son. His six-year military career will officially come to an end in August.

Bellavia wasn't aware of the Time article until it was printed, and said he was initially wary of the effect it would have on his family.

"I would rather not have the details in the media because I try to hold that stuff back from my parents and my wife," he said. "This was "you should have been dead' stuff."

Bellavia's father said the article elicited dueling emotions.

"We had pride, but there was a lot more fear than pride," he said.
Excerpt from a local roundup:
Adopt-a-School Program Produces Results (http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/articles/2005/07/25/opinion/opinion59.txt)
...After reading about 155th Brigade Combat Team's adopt-a-school program, which sends similar supplies to 20 Iraq schools, that she launched Operation Iraqi Children, Cable One employee Julia Ivey started Operation Iraqi Children. Through that campaign, locals can send toys and school supplies to children in Iraq.

The campaign has prompted so much goodwill from Iraqi children that some have even given soldiers tips on where to find insurgents, which could help save lives.

A new view after Iraq (http://www.fltimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=38&SubSectionID=121&ArticleID=8874)
[Spc. Christopher] Bean, 20, of Port Gibson, finished up a year-long stint in Baghdad as a truck driver with the 594th Transportation Co., a 101st Airborne division. His time in the military has given him a different perspective on the Fourth of July.

“In Iraq, we’re not fighting for ourselves,” said Bean, from his home base in Fort Campbell, Ky. “We’re over there fighting so the Iraqis can have their own Fourth of July.”

One of the things that struck Bean most about his time in Iraq was the people themselves. Most of the Iraqis he met were proud to have the Americans there, he said, and watching them go through their daily lives made him appreciate the historic significance of our Independence Day.

“Being there really opens your eyes to what our forefathers went through to get the freedom we have today,” he said.

Seahawks conclude Iraqi tour, make mark in history (http://www.blackanthem.com/News/2005072402.html)
Marine Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron 4 started its journey home today. After seven months in a deployed combat environment, the 190 Marines are ending their deployment that began in mid January.

"All the Marines were very eager to support [Operation Iraqi Freedom]," said Sgt. Joseph A. Esala, electronics section, a native of Statesboro, Ga. "It is a challenging and worthy effort. I’m honored to have been involved in it."

"We were ready," added Cpl. Kiel M. Naumann, airframes, who is from Pinellas, Fla. "We trained very hard back in Cherry Point, and we got a chance to come out here and do everything we could to help the Iraqi people build a more stable country..."

"...This is a relatively austere environment, which presented us with daily challenges, that included connectivity, water, power, environmental hazards and indirect fires from insurgent forces," said Maj. Shane B. Conrad, executive officer, a native of Sayre, Pa. "The men and women of VMAQ-4 took all these challenges in stride and never missed a beat. I have never seen better morale on a deployment that I did here and it is directly attributed to the quality of our Marines and solid leadership from the [noncommissioned officer] ranks on up..."

"...I remember seeing pictures of the Iraqi’s being allowed to vote for the first time," said Cpl. Michael W. Gerencser, navigations equipment, and native of Richmond, Va. "Each one had their finger dyed in ink. Seeing their people come together to help create a new democracy was indeed a unique experience," he recalled. "I know for certain that we are bringing a country together and providing a future some that never thought it was possible. I feel like I have made a mark on history and can say I made someone’s family that much safer..."

New device counters terrorism, keeps troops alive (http://www.blackanthem.com/World/2005072401.html)
The Army has developed a new device to thwart terrorist activities while saving service members’ lives.

The Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) Countermeasure Equipment, otherwise known as ICE, was developed by a team of engineers, scientists and Soldiers at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico to defeat IEDs, the most prominent threat to deployed service members in Iraq.

The ICE device, which is roughly the size of a bread box, uses commercial and military technology to defeat IEDs, said Maj. Raymond D. Pickering, who helped lead the ICE design team at White Sands during its development. Thousands of ICE systems are being utilized by all of the military services, and thousands of more are on order according to Pickering.

He said that the design process involved thinking like a terrorist and acting like one too - fast.

"In the old days, we fought wars by buying a tank and then the enemy would buy a tank and try to defeat ours - that whole process took years," he said. "Nowadays, terrorists use mortar and artillery shells as weapons," Pickering said, explaining that they combine those with commercial items to quickly design new hybrid systems.

Due to the combined efforts of engineers, scientists and Soldiers working at the Army Research Laboratory at White Sands Missile Range and New Mexico State University’s Physical Science Laboratory, ICE was conceptualized and fielded in less than six months.

"Normally, it takes years to develop a prototype, test, manufacture and field it. The desire to get a product in the hands our fighting forces immediately and prevent further casualties overcame the lengthy process," Pickering said. More to follow...

JoaMei

07-25-2005, 09:44 AM

walford

07-25-2005, 10:14 AM

rofl

Clearday-TRForce

07-25-2005, 10:28 AM

some good news in Iraq;

14575400... people died in suicide attack today...ouch sorry,wrong forum... :lol:

hey dont u have some really good news?

Turhapuro

07-25-2005, 11:42 AM

Nice, but altough Rambos are very, very useful they will not win this war. This war is about counterinsurgency so what you need is Bonds, James Bonds (lots of them).

Has anyone any information about psyops in Iraq? Counterinsurgency propaganda and winning hearts and minds with cunning James Bond-like plans etc.? ;)

Mailman

07-25-2005, 11:50 AM

So actually receiving Medals is good news?

If thats true there were only good news from the German troops during the Last Month of WW2. And only good news from Vietnam in the Seventies. :cantbeli:

Read your news properly, if these are the only good news from Iraq.... goodnight.

I guess its true that people would rather read the bad news than see the positive results being achieved in Iraq by the coalition.

Responses like yours are fairly typical of the group of people who only see the bad and are completely unwilling (or more likely incapable) of seeing the good side.

Mind you...when you have been brain washed what do you expect?

Mailman

achilles

07-25-2005, 12:54 PM

Cmon, walford, presenting all those things as 'good news from Iraq' is like feeling extreme happiness and joy after a horrible car crash, just because the rims remained intact. With all the current bloodshed, the thousands of dead civilians that your invasion caused and Iraq's rather uncertain future, your assessment of those 'good things about Iraq' become a bit misplaced...

Three other Marines received medals for valor at the same ceremony.

On Tuesday night, the 29-year-old Army staff sergeant from Batavia received the Conspicuous Service Cross, New York's highest award for combat valor, in recognition of his actions in the battle that helped U.S. forces reclaim a city that was once an insurgent stronghold.

Due to the combined efforts of engineers, scientists and Soldiers working at the Army Research Laboratory at White Sands Missile Range and New Mexico State University’s Physical Science Laboratory, ICE was conceptualized and fielded in less than six months.

Putting the goods and bads on a scale can show that your assertion is an attempt to create positive impressions, and nothing more, about 'Iraqi Freedom' ;)

Ok, this one is really funny...it could perhaps convince my 5 year old nephew :D :

“In Iraq, we’re not fighting for ourselves,” said Bean, from his home base in Fort Campbell, Ky. “We’re over there fighting so the Iraqis can have their own Fourth of July.”

Mercy...those comments are brain-cell killers....

walford

07-25-2005, 01:30 PM

Cmon, walford, presenting all those things as 'good news from Iraq' is like feeling extreme happiness and joy after a horrible car crash, just because the rims remained intact. With all the current bloodshed, the thousands of dead civilians that your invasion caused and Iraq's rather uncertain future, your assessment of those 'good things about Iraq' become a bit misplaced...All I have done is post the things going on that are not being covered by the mainstream media. Indeed, they are the types of occurrences that are happening far more often than the doom and gloom with which we are constantly treated. Sorry if such information offends you.

And insofar as the thousands of dead civilians and uncertain future that Iraq faces consequent to Saddam's forcible removal w/o Kofi's permission: We must ponder how many civilians that Saddam killed and likely would continue to kill. One thing is for sure, the Iraqis' future was indeed certain if the Ba'athist dictatorship was permitted to continue.

I truly do not envy those of you who must defend the position that bloodthirsty dictators must me left in place and 'contained' in the interests of stability. I daresay the Iraqi people have had fully enough of that.

Saddam's ouster certainly was a 'horrible car crash' for Saddam, his cronies and the internationalists -- especially those feeding at the UN trough via the Oil-for-Food program. The fact that millions of Iraqis turned out to vote in January and continue to show up to work to build representative government gives lie to the idea that they think being deprived of Saddam is a disaster.

melon

07-25-2005, 01:50 PM

Utopia,
Who really gives a **** what any of these people here think? They have no input in the outcome, no chance to sway opinion one way of the other, they just stand by on the outside and play the blame game. Its easier that way.

I say let them dish out all the defeatism, pessimisstic outlooks and disingenuous history lessons. They mean nothing, amount to little and effect nobody.

Melon

achilles

07-25-2005, 02:04 PM

[quote=achilles]All I have done is post the things going on that are not being covered by the mainstream media. Indeed, they are the types of occurrences that are happening far more often than the doom and gloom with which we are constantly treated. Sorry if such information offends you.

Of course you understand that its not the content of the information that offends me per se, but rather that fact that you think bad news can be countered by what you posted. You know that i am not easily offended, at least by my standards, but quoting comments such as 'we are in Iraq so that Iraq can have its own 4th of July' really makes me wonder of the IQ of all the people who fall for it, Americans or not...the war in Iraq is a hegemonical war, like almost EVERY war, every superpower has conducted for the last few thousand years.

And insofar as the thousands of dead civilians and uncertain future that Iraq faces consequent to Saddam's forcible removal w/o Kofi's permission: We must ponder how many civilians that Saddam killed and likely would continue to kill. One thing is for sure, the Iraqis' future was indeed certain if the Ba'athist dictatorship was permitted to continue

I am sure the Iraqis as a whole would have had much more fun under Saddam during the last couple of years, instead of the endless bloodshed and puppet government you have endowed them with.
Who gives you the right to judge who, why and how to democratise a country? Who are you to consider yourselves as having the right and ability to export your own socio-economic models that work in some places, but might not work in others? In any case, who are you to impose anything on anyone, even for good or for bad?

No, Iraq's future was not at all certain under the Ba'athists. History has shown a number of times that oppressed people revolt and overthrow brutal regimes... its seems that this process in the middle-east evolves slowly, but evolves...dictators dont remain in power for ever.

I truly do not envy those of you who must defend the position that bloodthirsty dictators must me left in place and 'contained' in the interests of stability. I daresay the Iraqi people have had fully enough of that.

You should 'envy' people who think that nations and their peoples should be left alone in terms of choosing when, where and how to change their fate, and which alternatice to replace it with. At least this is my take of how things should be dealth with...we will hopefully be around in a few years to criticise again how your bloody nation building will have turned out, if it will have turned out to be something worth discussing...

achilles

07-25-2005, 02:07 PM

Utopia,

His name is walford, tough guy :lol:

walford

07-25-2005, 02:44 PM

Of course you understand that its not the content of the information that offends me per se, but rather that fact that you think bad news can be countered by what you posted.I offered no commentary. The only purpose was to balance the negative coverage with the positive. It is called TELLING THE WHOLE STORY. I knew that those who prefer to wallow in gloom would be outraged that such stories would even be made available.

You know that i am not easily offended, at least by my standards, but quoting comments such as 'we are in Iraq so that Iraq can have its own 4th of July' really makes me wonder of the IQ of all the people who fall for it, Americans or not..And I am left to question the motives of those who preach that Iraq is a quagmire, that US is there to turn Iraq into today's Belgian Congo, etc. Don't they know that the terrorists find this encouraging? Don't they know that ignoring the good and dwelling on the bad gives them the idea that we are becoming demoralized so that if they continue the bloodshed a bit longer we will quit?

The quote to which you refer was from someone who is over there encountering actual Iraqi people. Apparently having gone through such an experience and feeling positive about it is evidence of stupidity for you.

.the war in Iraq is a hegemonical war, like almost EVERY war, every superpower has been conducted for the last few thousand years.I stand by Dr. Rice's initial assessment that we can take Saddam out now or wait until he's stronger, but war was inevitable. The war in Iraq is one of those who choose to target civilians in order to install a dictatorship against those who are rebuilding a long-neglected country and foster limited representative government. To compare this to any of the expansionist empires that has characterized human history is intellectually dishonest.

I am sure the Iraqis as a whole would have had much more fun under Saddam during the last couple of years, instead of the endless bloodshed and puppet government you have endowed them with.There is no comparison to the atrocities commited under Saddam. The bloodshed that continues lies at the feet of thugs who will surely escalate the killing if they are permitted to take power. In other words, they will emulate Saddam.

Who gives you the right to judge who, why and how to democratise a country? Who are you to consider yourselves as having the right and ability to export your own socio-economic models that work in some places, but might not work in others? In any case, who are you to impose anything on anyone, even for good or for bad?I do not share in your implied conviction that dictatorship is right for some people. No, freedom is right for ALL people -- it is not simply an equally valid alternate lifestyle.

Further, we in the West should have learned that it is not possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with aggressive tyrants. Tyranny is a cancer that spreads. It lashes out unpredictably. War and poverty will continue so long as tyranny does. That is what gives us the right.

Saddam was not 'contained,' he was financing and hosting terrorism. Iraq was not at peace under Saddam because a dictatorship is essentially a state in which the government declares war upon its own people. And the casualties were heavy during the '90s were they not?

No, Iraq's future was not at all certain under the Ba'athists. History has shown a number of times that oppressed people revolt and overthrow brutal regimes... its seems that this process in the middle-east evolves slowly, but evolves...dictators dont remain in power for ever.History has shown that dictatorships don't fall unless the military refuses to follow orders to slaughter civilians. This happened in the Phillipines and the USSR. Most often what happens is what occurred in Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Beijing in 1989.

As I had stated in another thread, Saddam's army wasn't very good on the battlefield but was quite effective at massacring unarmed men, women and children. There was no indication that they were going to disobey Saddam in the foreseable future. Saddam's purge machine was in constant operation.

You should 'envy' people who think that nations and their peoples should be left alone in terms of choosing when, where and how to change their fate, and which alternatice to replace it with. At least this is my take of how things should be dealth with...we will hopefully be around in a few years to criticise again how your bloody nation building will have turned out, if it will have turned out to be something worth discussing...The implication here is that the minority Ba'athist dictatorship was of the Iraqi people's choosing or that it wasn't bad enough for them to remove. Tens of thousands in mass-graves give indication of otherwise. It is always wrong to leave dictators in power. 12 needless years of suffering under the UN sanctions/inspection regime stand as cruel testament to the moral obscenity of 'containment.'

Turhapuro

07-25-2005, 02:53 PM

Who gives you the right to judge who, why and how to democratise a country? Who are you to consider yourselves as having the right and ability to export your own socio-economic models that work in some places, but might not work in others? In any case, who are you to impose anything on anyone, even for good or for bad?
Who cares? Tt does not matter. now Right or wrong, Saddam has been ousted. What is done is done. Arguing about was it good or not does not help iraqins or occupation forces.

So what are we going to do about Iraq? Just watch and rant?

achilles

07-25-2005, 04:33 PM

achilles

07-25-2005, 04:35 PM

walford

07-25-2005, 06:26 PM

It is always wrong to be at the wrong place, in the wrong time for the wrong reasons, while telling people emotional nonsense like 'we are fighting for the Iraqi 4th of July'. Mistakes never pass by for free...To single out a quote from an enlisted man as if it were the mantra of those who support removing tyrants rather than containing them is not fair. I have attended 'anti-war' protests and heard such things as "America is like a little bitch, someone broke her nail [referring to 9/11] and now she's blowing up the whole world." Given the other statements in your post that imply that terrorism is America's fault, I could just as easily slime you with that slogan.

The simple fact is the group of stories that started this thread are not being carried in the mainstream media. I strongly urge you to review those stories again. Have you seen any like that on CNN, Le Monde, CBS, the BBC, etc.? In a piece I wrote (http://utopia-unmasked.us/counter-demo2003.10-25.htm) comparing coverage of anti-war to support-the-troops rallies, research yielded these results:A Nexis search of anti-war news reporting over the past year yielded these results: National news outlets – such as USA Today, National Public Radio and Cox News Service -- constituted 34 percent of the stories published in the last year.

International entities comprised 44 percent of the total – the Chinese Xinhua and The Irish Times showed repeated interest in these stories. Of the International entities, 12 percent were about multiple worldwide protests, while stories about protests in the U.S. and those about demonstrations occurring elsewhere in the world stood at five percent and 15 percent of the total, respectively. The remaining coverage came from local news organs.

Media coverage of support the troops rallies has been significantly different. A search over the same time period had yielded zero international coverage. 20 percent of the total were national organs, 16 percent being the AP local news wire, which may or may not be carried in a given publication or broadcast. Two percent were government news releases and an additional two percent of the total turned out to actually be passing mentions of support the troops rallies in stories about anti-war demonstrations. The remaining 80 percent were carried in such publications as the Cheyenne Wyo. Tribune-Eagle, the Allentown Pa. Morning Call and the Winston-Salem N.C. Journal... In my cursory search for positive coverage of how things are actually going on the ground in Iraq, I have found similar coverage. That those who are still wringing their hands that Saddam is not in power find it necessary to **** on a small thread that dares to fill in the holes [with positive coverage] left by the mainstream media was sadly predictable.

You should instead be wondering why such stories are NOT on the evening news, because they are happening and with greater frequency than the roadside attacks and suicide bombings. But maybe some of you like those stories because each drop of blood spilled by the terrorists gives you more ammunition with which to flog the President of the United States.

Turhapuro

07-26-2005, 08:50 AM

never mind.. :)

MacDaddy

07-26-2005, 12:53 PM

Cmon, walford, presenting all those things as 'good news from Iraq' is like feeling extreme happiness and joy after a horrible car crash, just because the rims remained intact. With all the current bloodshed, the thousands of dead civilians that your invasion caused and Iraq's rather uncertain future, your assessment of those 'good things about Iraq' become a bit misplaced...

Three other Marines received medals for valor at the same ceremony.

On Tuesday night, the 29-year-old Army staff sergeant from Batavia received the Conspicuous Service Cross, New York's highest award for combat valor, in recognition of his actions in the battle that helped U.S. forces reclaim a city that was once an insurgent stronghold.
What an ass rag. Do you piss in your own Wheaties??

Due to the combined efforts of engineers, scientists and Soldiers working at the Army Research Laboratory at White Sands Missile Range and New Mexico State University’s Physical Science Laboratory, ICE was conceptualized and fielded in less than six months.

Putting the goods and bads on a scale can show that your assertion is an attempt to create positive impressions, and nothing more, about 'Iraqi Freedom' ;)

Ok, this one is really funny...it could perhaps convince my 5 year old nephew :D :

“In Iraq, we’re not fighting for ourselves,” said Bean, from his home base in Fort Campbell, Ky. “We’re over there fighting so the Iraqis can have their own Fourth of July.”

Mercy...those comments are brain-cell killers....

achilles

07-26-2005, 02:27 PM

^One hell of a post...can you highlight your contribution?

Weasel

07-26-2005, 02:39 PM

^One hell of a post...can you highlight your contribution?

You simply didn´t get his message. :bash:

walford

07-26-2005, 04:03 PM

^One hell of a post...can you highlight your contribution?You simply didn´t get his message. :bash:1. Your post was so brilliant, he was speechless.
2. It was in French, but all of the letters are ****ounced silently. Remember, there is a bit of Wanderer in all of us.

Oh, well. Where was I? Some commentary on the coverage and other news we haven't seen:

The Good News from Iraq:Why don’t we see more of it? (http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200411010826.asp)

To fill the gap left by the al Qaqaa munitions story that was preempted by the New York Times, 60 Minutes ran a feature Sunday night on the travails of our fighting forces in Iraq. It portrayed an under-equipped military placed in danger by flawed policies and politicians more interested in pork than protecting our troops. It was typical of that kind of story, chiefly anecdotal and drawing conclusions out of proportion to the particulars presented. I keep waiting for some fact-based stories on the up-armored M1114 Humvee. There are currently 5,100 operational in Iraq with 724 more en route. This is in addition to the 8,700 armor kits (CBS referred to these as "so-called 'add-on armor' kits") sent to Iraq to upgrade standard Humvees. But most stories make it sound like our guys are all riding around in pickup trucks. Or take, for example, the notion that we are sending out troops without body armor. The fact is that most of the troops have the finest state-of-the-art body armor in the world, and the rest have the previous generation — which is also better than any other country's body armor. Soon they will all have the latest gear. And the reason why most of the wounds in Iraq are in the extremities is precisely because our armor is so good at protecting the rest of the body.

60 Minutes might have run a different story. They were developing a Michael Moore-esque piece about how small-town America is bearing the burdens of the war — the customary class-war stereotype that disadvantaged youth are driven to military service by lack of economic opportunity and sent to fight in a war they care nothing about to defend the interests of the rich. They tracked down the mother of a Latino private from Texas who had been killed in Iraq and suggested to her that her son was part of this unfortunate group, needlessly sacrificed. She laughed. She told the interviewers that her son was not driven by desperation but inspired by patriotism. He had given up a job with a salary many times his Army pay, because he wanted to serve his country. He died doing what he set out to do. Let's see 60 Minutes air that footage...

...As you might guess, in the eyes of most of the press only bad news is really "news." For example, reporters call the Pentagon on a weekly basis looking for troop suicide data. They are told the truth — that military suicide rates are down in general, particularly so in 2004, and are below the rates of the same age group in the general population. Their universal response is something like, "Darn, then I have no story." Think about that — good news, even exceptional news, does not qualify as a story. And there are more good news data out there that never get out. Desertion and AWOL rates are down. Conscientious-objector-status claims are down — which shows that fewer people are trying to find ways out of combat. Services are reaching their recruiting quotas. Retention (i.e., reenlistment) rates are up, and are highest among those troops serving in Iraq. Think about that a minute, these are people who could be sent home who choose to keep serving overseas, and at rates higher than those who have not gone over. The active-duty retention rate is so high that the National Guard, which draws heavily from the prior service active duty population, is having shortfalls. You might see that story, but it would be spun to make it look like the result of protest against the war...

...Some other idea for stories: interview cadets and midshipmen at the service academies and ROTC. You will find that they are more motivated and ready to serve than ever. How about stories on the lengths to which our troops go to limit collateral damage during combat? About how ours is the most humane fighting force in history? While talking about casualties, how about a story about the amazing work done by our military medics, about how this is the most survivable conflict of its length in our history, with the lowest casualty rates and the highest survival rates among the wounded?

Another great story is set in the Iraqi town of Wynot. The townspeople used to dislike the Coalition forces, but U.S. troops helped them organize a city-council election to demonstrate that we were there not to be occupiers but to help them find ways to run their own affairs. Now the townspeople have a completely different view of our troops. Or how about the Iraqi contractor who brought his irrigation project 25-percent under budget and returned the unused money? You can glean scores of interesting stories from the web if you search enough, from service-member blogs, public-affairs websites, and some local papers, especially in military towns. Most of the reporting comes from the units in the field, the people close to the scene who live it daily and know the facts. Nevertheless, it seems as though you cannot give away a good news story about our military in Iraq. The mainstream press is not interested. However, I am betting that most Americans are.
Water Project on schedule in Southern Iraq (http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/releases/recon060905.html)

...Iraq’s clean water supply country-wide has ebbed slowly for decades because of war, an antiquated pipeline network and co-mingling with sewage as a result of illegal line tapping. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Gulf Region South District is riding the waves of progress to get the people of southern Iraq the clean drinking water they need.

...Throughout Iraq , there are there are 208 Water projects programmed, of which 96 are ongoing and 66 are complete....

...the former regime built many canals to take water all through the country so people could use it for their own needs, be it drinking or agriculture...

...One of the challenges, according to Flinn, is the fact that pipelines in Iraq are 30 years old and leaking, co-mingling with sewer lines that are in the same shape because of the war. “We also have a situation where people tap into the water lines illegally to get water,” he said. “You also have a lot of open land fill areas where it runs off in to the canals and people are drinking it. Moreover, you have cattle in there too. It is a country-wide problem.”

The importance of the success of the mission at the Nasiriyah water treatment plant, said Flinn, depends on the fact that the citizens of Nasiriyah and Thi Qar Province understand that the drinking water supplied by this plant is for them and only them. It is not being piped outside of the province. Some rumors have even emerged that it is being piped to Kuwait. This is simply not true. This water belongs to the citizens of the province, period.”

Flinn said the GRS Water Sector has projects for everything from rehabilitation of potable water pipeline networks, to new construction of pipeline networks, and turnkey water treatment facilities. He also said that two other water treatment plants in Nasiriyah are being rehabilitated, and that three compact units will be built in the Missan Province and 14 are currently in various stages of completion in Najaf Province...
U.S. Army doctors helping repair damage done to medicine in Iraq (http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17570&archive=true)
U.S. Army doctors are trying to repair the damage done to Iraqi medicine during the reign of Saddam Hussein when, as one doctor put it, “medicine stopped.”

...Medical advancements were minimal under Saddam. As a result, doctors are “basically stuck in the late ’70s, early ’80s,” said Dr. (Lt. Col.) Kelly Murray, regimental surgeon for the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment based at Fort Polk, La.

“Medicine stopped. In the ’90s, they couldn’t even get medical journals,” he said.

Dr. Noorhan Solomon, a gynecologist, said only people selected by the government were allowed to leave the country for additional training. The others were stuck with a stagnant profession as the rest of the world moved on...

...The Americans plan to leave behind some of the teaching tools so they can be used in future classes. They had mannequins, CD-ROMs and other teaching tools for the class.

They expect the Iraqi doctors to quickly catch up with what more than two decades of a dictatorship has cost them.

“Their knowledge level is the same as ours,” said Foglia, but they have not had access to new methods and new technology.

Added Murray: “They’re incredibly good doctors — well-trained at what they do. They just didn’t have the equipment.”
Brigade gets water flowing in central Iraq (http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17690&archive=true)
An Iraqi man draws clear, healthy water from a new well built in his village of Jowezrat. A plan is underway to drill 250 wells in central Iraq to replace the foul water now used by many people for everyday living.

“We were sent here to make a difference. We have the capability to make a difference,” he says. “Let’s go do it.”

For Fritz and other members of the Army National Guard unit, that means drilling 250 water wells throughout the area between the cities of Baghdad, Fallujah and Tikrit — a region known as the Sunni Triangle. They want to tap into an underground reservoir that can change the lives of the people who live here.

“When we give it to them, it will be the first good water they’ve had in their lives,” said Fritz, 55, an industrial hygienist for the National Guard who lives in Palmer Lake, Colo....

...the water is not only used for crops and pastures. It is the drinking water, the cooking water and the bathing water for the families.

It is terrible, putrid water. It is filled with the waste of humans and animals. Most small villages, Fritz said, have no sewer systems. The sewage finds its way into the water. Animal waste used as fertilizer on the fields also drains off into the ditches...

...Nearby is a ditch filled with the tepid, ugly water. Salih said they often boil that water when it is used, but not always. A fire requires fuel, and fuel has a cost.

The well, he said last week, is a symbol of the friendship between Americans and the Iraqi people.

But it’s not that easy. For example, the people of Jowezrat have received a threat from unknown persons warning them not to use the well. Fritz can’t fathom such a philosophy and wonders why the “bad guys” don’t just let America fix the country and leave...Indeed.

Finish the Job (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005430)
Over a month into sovereignty, and Iraq still continues to generate a flood of bad news, at least as far as the mainstream media are concerned. Foreign workers keep getting kidnapped and occasionally executed; terrorist bombs continue to explode throughout Baghdad and other cities, although the victims are now overwhelmingly Iraqi civilians. Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, learned commissions deliver their reports, providing the media with fresh opportunities to talk about intelligence failures and strategic blunders.

Yet for every foreigner taken hostage there are stories of hundreds of Iraqis who can now enjoy in many different ways their regained liberty. For every attack, with all its terror and bloodshed, there are countless stories of courage, determination and resourcefulness on the part of the Iraqi people. And for every intelligence failure by the government agencies then, there is an intelligence failure by the media now. Which is why you are likely to have recently missed some of the stories below...

...while we celebrate Iraq's slow journey towards democracy, we should always remember the courage of ordinary people who are making the ultimate sacrifice in order to help rebuild their country: In just the two weeks after the transition of sovereignty, six members of Baghdad's city council were assassinated by the enemies of freedom and democracy. It's a testament to the determination and commitment of Iraqi community leaders that they are not giving in and giving up despite the very real and immediate risks...

...Iraqis are also now free to remember their past. The recent discovery of the remains of former president Abd al-Kareem Qassem, murdered during a Baath Party coup in 1963, is bringing unexpected joy to many: "For many Iraqis--especially the poor--Qassem's short-lived regime was a golden age, the first time they had a president who cared about them. They see his rule as a time free of the neglect that preceded it as well as the wars and repression that came after."

... To get the numbers right in the new Iraq, the government is spending between $60 million and $100 million and employing 150,000 teachers to conduct the new census in a single day. The data from the Saddam era is too outdated and too biased to provide an accurate picture of today's Iraq:

The 1997 census did not count the three Kurdish provinces then separated by the no-fly zone, nor an estimated 4 million Iraqi refugees.

This also was the height of the "Arabization" program, in which Kurds, Turkmen and other minorities were forced to list their ethnicity as "Arab"or risk losing their homes, jobs or lives."

As Nuha Yousif, census manager in Iraq's Ministry of Planning, says: "In the old days, the census was conducted for the interests of the government. . . . People will want to participate in the census because they know that this time it is information to build the new Iraq." In many ways we in the West, too, look at Iraq through the prism of Saddam's census figures; now finally we might all acquire a different, better view of the country...

...As planned, Iraq has opened its bond market, with the issue of the first postwar debt. One hundred fifty billion dinars ($104 million) were raised in three-month treasury bills at 5.5% interest rate. "Demand was healthy," according to the central bank's chief economist, Mudher Kasim. As another report explains, "Iraq's three-week-old government is selling debt to help pay local banks $3 billion of debt that dates from Saddam's rule and to reduce its reliance on international loans and revenue from oil. The government plans to hold twice-monthly auctions to raise as much as $1.2 billion by year-end. 'It shows the sophistication of the Iraqi banking system,' said Richard Segal, research director at Exotix, a London brokerage for emerging market securities, including Iraqi debt."

...The Italian government has announced recently that it will provide Iraq with an Intranet system to link all the government departments. "Iraq was devastated by the former regime. . . . That is why today's agreement on information technology is of vital importance for us to create an infrastructure in the first stage of reconstruction," said Rashad Omar, minister of science and technology in the new Iraqi government.

The Iraqi government has earmarked $1 billion in its 2005 budget to help modernize crumbling Baghdad utilities. The problems are, of course, older than the coalition invasion: "Modernization of Baghdad grounded to a halt in 1980 when the country's former dictator Saddam Hussein launched a ruinous war with Iran that continued for 8 years. The city's basic services are in shambles and streets in several low-income quarters are inundated with heavy water." The coalition and Iraqis are repairing the damage not just of the past 12 months but of the past 24 years...

...In the reconstructing Iraq, more opportunities for women, too. Says Rep. Jennifer Dunn, co-chairman of the Congressional Iraqi Women's Caucus:

...I recently learned that several U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) grants have enabled a new Center for Iraqi Women to open its doors in Mosul. It is now offering counseling on women's health issues, business advice, employment and political training, and social and family services.

Now that the women's center has become a reality, I am happily returning the wedding ring to this remarkable woman who is ready to stand up to the challenges to make her nation a better place...

...efforts to restore the marshlands in southern Iraq, which Saddam had drained as punishment for Marsh Arabs' support of the failed uprising in 1991. Now, the United Nations has announced an $11 million project to further restore these largest wetlands in the Middle East (according to some, the site of the Garden of Eden) and to provide fresh drinking water for their inhabitants. "Satellite images released by the United Nations in 2001 showed that 90 percent of the original wetlands had been lost and experts feared the entire wetlands could disappear by 2008." Not anymore...

... "During eleven months of their work in Iraq, the Slovak military engineer unit has manually cleared of land mines [an] area of 73,000 square meters and almost 51,000 square meters using the mine clearing vehicle Bozena. With a special mine-clearing tank T-55C over 225,000 square meters were cleared." Slovakia has about 100 military engineers currently in Iraq.

The Japanese contingent similarly has done a lot of good work, supplying 11,400 tons of water, repairing 12 miles of roads, providing medical advice at four local hospitals, and repairing eight local schools. Five hundred fifty Japanese troops have been stationed around the city of Samawah since January this year. Their work is certainly appreciated by the local Iraqi religious leaders.

In addition to their security work and official reconstruction assistance, coalition troops continue with their private humanitarian efforts. These are people like Sgt. Gabe Medina, of Albuquerque, N.M., who heads Operation Pencil Box near Tikrit, distributing school supplies to Iraqi children...

...Iraq, which a few decades ago had so much promise for a decent future, stagnated under Saddam. All the unfulfilled hopes of Iraqi people hibernated under the Baath Party rule; now with the tyrant removed it's time to finish the job. The coalition forces and friendly governments are still there to help, but with sovereignty now transferred, the work of building a normal country belongs increasingly to the Iraqi people.
What's Going Right in Iraq (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13345)
Late last month, Ted Koppel read the names of every American serviceman who was killed in Iraq...

...if Koppel had undertaken to read the names of innocent people who had been murdered under the regime of Saddam Hussein, he would still be reading names today, weeks later, even if he had the endurance to read them 24 hours a day, seven days a week...

...if Koppel can provide the names of the American servicemen who were killed, let me at least try to provide a very brief list of reasons why they died, reasons why we went there, and why their and our sacrifice is worth it.

*Hundreds of thousands of children who had not received proper medical care now have up-to-date immunizations and other medical care.

* School attendance, by some estimates, is up 80% from levels before the war. Among those being educated are young girls who previously may not have received proper education.

* Despite much publicity early in the war that power plants had been bombed or sabotaged, what hasn’t received wide publicity is that today Iraq now has more electrical power than it did before the war.

*Hundreds of thousands of people have telephones for the first time ever.

* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Finally, by the way, Saddam Hussein himself, one of the most murderous despots of the 20th century, is in prison, awaiting trial for genocide and crimes against humanity. And evildoers the world over know that they cannot act with impunity. There is no calculating how many millions of lives, even tens of millions of lives, such a knowledge might save in the years and decades ahead...

achilles

07-26-2005, 04:25 PM

1. Your post was so brilliant, he was speechless.

Usually my posts have exactly the opposite effect...they attract huge piles of ****, or even smaller, like the one posted by MacDaddy...here is the hidden message ladies and gentlemen...

What an ass rag. Do you piss in your own Wheaties??
This guy definitely deserves a cookie...

2. It was in French, but all of the letters are ****ounced silently. Remember, there is a bit of Wanderer in all of us.

From as far as i remember, Wanderer was rather vocal and totally incoherent...what happened to him? :lol:

achilles

07-26-2005, 04:48 PM

To single out a quote from an enlisted man as if it were the mantra of those who support removing tyrants rather than containing them is not fair.

I singled out a quote that actually epitomizes the rhetoric of Bush and his administration regarding the war in Iraq.

I have attended 'anti-war' protests and heard such things as "America is like a little bitch, someone broke her nail [referring to 9/11] and now she's blowing up the whole world." Given the other statements in your post that imply that terrorism is America's fault, I could just as easily slime you with that slogan.

I never equated 9/11 with a 'little bitch's nail been broken' and i never sunk into the depths of posting gross generalizations of the 'blowing up the world' like. Yet, i did imply that terrorism has been sparked by unfortunate Anglo-Saxon policies and amplified by religious fundamentalism. I am quite convinced that people who are willing to blow themselves up do not suddenly wake up one morning determined to do so, simply because Allah ordered them during their sleep.

The simple fact is the group of stories that started this thread are not being carried in the mainstream media. I strongly urge you to review those stories again. Have you seen any like that on CNN, Le Monde, CBS, the BBC, etc.?

The truth is that i havent. But it is natural for mainstream media to cover what is really important in Iraq, i.e. an endless daily bloodshed and this is not my personal gloomy view of the war...its what is actually happening there. Of course that is not to say that only bad things are happening in Iraq, yet i cannot asign equal weight to the good things you are projecting.

You should instead be wondering why such stories are NOT on the evening news, because they are happening and with greater frequency than the roadside attacks and suicide bombings. But maybe some of you like those stories because each drop of blood spilled by the terrorists gives you more ammunition with which to flog the President of the United States.

Unfortunate comment walford, at least as far as i am concerned. Normally, i should be offended. I can guarantee you that i do not masturbate every time an insurgent takes a bunch of people with him in the grave. As i do not masturbate over the fact that Afghanistan is now planted with countless cluster bombs or over the tenths of thousands Iraqis that kissed this world goodbye due to your 'liberating' campaign...

walford

07-26-2005, 05:36 PM

What an ass rag. Do you piss in your own Wheaties?? This guy definitely deserves a cookie...Are you gonna piss on it first?

From as far as i remember, Wanderer was rather vocal and totally incoherent...what happened to him? :lol:

wanderer[/u] (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/search.php?search_author=wanderer)]I'm in universe 3 / 7 / 16 / 17 / 18
in Ogame FR

lab -> 6
mines -> 14

and 2 raid p-)Umm...OK... :|

To single out a quote from an enlisted man as if it were the mantra of those who support removing tyrants rather than containing them is not fair. I singled out a quote that actually epitomizes the rhetoric of Bush and his administration regarding the war in Iraq.It stands as a caricature of what YOU REGARD as the Bush admin's mentality. Statements by Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice et al show that they are fully aware of the challenges that continue. They have repeatedly said that the enemy is constantly changing tactics and our forces are adapting, etc. I maintain that you find that an enlisted man coming back from Iraq optomistic and positive to be insufferable. Thus you take the opportunity to use the statement of a young man who likely is not as eloquent as you and I as a means to characterize the entire effort.

I never equated 9/11 with a 'little bitch's nail been broken' and i never sunk into the depths of posting gross generalizations of the 'blowing up the world' like.But I do equate your seizing upon the singular statement rather than engaging the numerous examples of positive results to be just as unfair as if I had decided to smear you with embracing that epithet -- which I did not.

Yet, i did imply that terrorism has been sparked by unfortunate Anglo-Saxon policies and amplified by religious fundamentalism. I am quite convinced that people who are willing to blow themselves up do not suddenly wake up one morning determined to do so, simply because Allah ordered them during their sleep.No, the Wahabbis have a history going farther in the past, going back to a certain Sayeed Qutb, who was executed by Nasser in 1966. They aspire to build a Taliban-like Caliphate spanning North Africa to Indonesia and the West in is the way.

Insofar as people being willing to blow themselves up (http://utopia-unmasked.us/terror.html) is concerned...
Individual terrorists may be irrational fanatics, but those who send them are not. The classic Clauswitzian objective of national demoralization is obtained by randomly murdering men, women and children. If they thought that such tactics would engender universal condemnation, they would not use them. But past reaction to terrorism has shown that they could expect a significant cadre of Westerners to reflexively absolve them of responsibility and blame those whom the victims represent. Thus, given such political rewards, civilians continue to be targeted.Certainly trying to appease or contain those who hate us will not work.

...it is natural for mainstream media to cover what is really important in Iraq, i.e. an endless daily bloodshed and this is not my personal gloomy view of the war...its what is actually happening there. Of course that is not to say that only bad things are happening in Iraq, yet i cannot asign equal weight to the good things you are projecting.I strongly differ with you that the bloodshed is what is imporant. If not for the above-mentioned unearned political rewards conferred by some Westerners, these attacks would be more correctly seen as contemptable demonstrations of impotence by those who are outraged that a dictatorship has been removed.

The implication is that it is proper that the media ignore the far more numerous and important benefits that the Iraqi people and the world are reaping from Saddam's ouster.

And regarding any good things that I may be projecting. I have offered few projections for the future regarding Iraq in particular and the conflict with the Wahabbis in general. When pressed, I have said that I am pessimistic. We may have an advantage with respect to resources and technology, but history has shown that this can be overcome when the apparently weaker side that is spilling blood to install tyranny has an advantage with respect to resolve. Ho Chi Minh knew this and beat us at home.

I do indeed stand by my assertion that an Iraq with a popularly mandated government is better for all concerned than a continuation of Saddam. That I should have to say this is disappointing.

...I can guarantee you that i do not masturbate every time an insurgent takes a bunch of people with him in the grave. As i do not masturbate over the fact that Afghanistan is now planted with countless cluster bombs or over the tenths of thousands Iraqis that kissed this world goodbye due to your 'liberating' campaign...Frankly, I question the motives of those who find it offensive to even post a few stories of good news from Iraq. That was all this thread was supposed to be. An island of the positive in an ocean of gloom and woe.

But you were among those who could not resist spewing your scorn, unable to leave this one outpost of good news unpolluted. Very well. You should know me well enough to expect my reaction by now.

I cannot imagine that anyone would think that Afghanistan or Iraq would be better with the former regimes -- or the world for that matter. People have died, because that is what happens when you remove a cancer. To leave it in place so that it can continue to fester only makes the extraction more difficult if not impossible.

The main difference we still have is whether or not it is possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with those who hold power by force and demontrate a willingness to spread their brutality elsewhere.

Moledet

07-26-2005, 05:46 PM

I've heard they have a reality TV show in iraq where they take terrorists that were caught and let them tell their acts to the camera.
The Kurds copied that show and do the same show but they also add videos that were captured by the terrorists showing their acts, 50 women were hospitalised suffering trauma after watching the show.

Some of the stuff in the show: They show how they took a random man from the street, cut him to pieces and they put him back in the place they found him. It was done to rise their moral and to show them how salughtering a man feels like.
They also showed how they stopped a man from talking by putting cement in his mouth, how they killed many teenage boys that refused to have *** with them, and other stuff like beheading people, cutting people to pieces, etc...
all followed with real videos supplied by the terrorists.
Next time they promised to show punishment to hookers and girls that disobeyed Islam.

Any further information about this show?

budgie

07-27-2005, 08:14 AM

These are indeed 'good' stories as opposed to 'bad' news (the usual kind).

As for not being reported by the 'big' media: sorry they're not 'big' stories or the 'big picture.'

walford

07-27-2005, 08:44 AM

These are indeed 'good' stories as opposed to 'bad' news (the usual kind). As for not being reported by the 'big' media: sorry they're not 'big' stories or the 'big picture.'Yea that's right. A small pathetic band of assholes blowing people up in order to install a dictatorship characterizes the true Big Picture.

The fact that millions of Iraqis turned out to vote, people are drinking clean water, doctors are being brought up-to-date training/eqpt, children are being educated, women are no longer being systematically raped, limbs are not being amputated, children are not imprisoned and are being educated instead, marshes are being recovered etc. etc. -- most of which are happening for the first time in 20 years [if not ever] -- these things are not reported because they are not important and have no bearing upon the Big Picture.

Move along, nothing to see here.

achilles

07-27-2005, 01:19 PM

Are you gonna piss on it first?

*unzips pants*

Statements by Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice et al show that they are fully aware of the challenges that continue. They have repeatedly said that the enemy is constantly changing tactics and our forces are adapting, etc.

As they have repeatedly said that the fight is for the sake o the Iraqis, the spread od democracy in the middle-east and perhaps this struggle is in accordance with God's will p-) ...where do America's interests fit into all this, since we all know by now that Iraq had very little to do with terrorism and even less with WMD.
The fact that the campaign itself has been labelled 'Iraqi Freedom' verifies my claim that this man's comment summarizes the parlance of Bush's cabinet. In other words, its plain bull**** intended to feed the American masses that are willing to listen to an overall unfortunate administration.

But I do equate your seizing upon the singular statement rather than engaging the numerous examples of positive results to be just as unfair as if I had decided to smear you with embracing that epithet -- which I did not.

As i said, not only bad things are happening in Iraq. Let me repeat the the problem here is your attempt to paint with a positive color a rather catastrophic campaign, by posting relatively positive incidents. I dont have any problems with any info coming up walford, but i do have problems digesting an attempt to make a joyfull story out of a plain crash, from which only a couple of people survived ;)

Certainly trying to appease or contain those who hate us will not work.

You should pay more attention to why they hate you so much in the first place. Religion? Hundres of millions of people from various ethnicities believe in a different God, but Muslim Fundamentalists do not hate them to the same extent. Hint: there must be something wrong with your foreign policy towards Israel, Palestine and the broader Middle-East.

I strongly differ with you that the bloodshed is what is imporant. If not for the above-mentioned unearned political rewards conferred by some Westerners, these attacks would be more correctly seen as contemptable demonstrations of impotence by those who are outraged that a dictatorship has been removed.

If Iraq gets even slightly better than it was during Saddam's days due to American effort, i will give you all the credit for 'removing a dictatorship'. Until then, my assertion the Iraq has been transformed into an even bloodier ****hole due to your invasion stands corrected....

I do indeed stand by my assertion that an Iraq with a popularly mandated government is better for all concerned than a continuation of Saddam. That I should have to say this is disappointing.

The actual dissappointment in our debate is the fact that you take America's right to invade and impose her own plans to a foreign country, for grandit. This assumption lies underneath ALL your arguments. If this rather moot assumption goes, then your whole line of argumentation goes like a deck of cards in an earthquake.

Frankly, I question the motives of those who find it offensive to even post a few stories of good news from Iraq. That was all this thread was supposed to be. An island of the positive in an ocean of gloom and woe.

You said that your aim was to balance all the gloom...how can an island balance an ocean? Do we converge somewhere or is it just me? :lol:

But you were among those who could not resist spewing your scorn, unable to leave this one outpost of good news unpolluted. Very well. You should know me well enough to expect my reaction by now.

Unpolluted? So now countering your arguments is 'pollution' and not constructive debate, at least the way it takes place in this thread? What did you expect? To be left alone in an endless monologue praising all your acts of good will in Iraq? I believe that you know me much better than that ;)

And hijiacking this thread was not within my interests...you can always keep posting related articles, which i will be glad to read.

I cannot imagine that anyone would think that Afghanistan or Iraq would be better with the former regimes -- or the world for that matter. People have died, because that is what happens when you remove a cancer. To leave it in place so that it can continue to fester only makes the extraction more difficult if not impossible.

I will not follow you in your 'we need to break some eggs in order to make on omelette' logic, especially when the following equation is considered to stand on rational grounds:
eggs=human lives.

The main difference we still have is whether or not it is possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with those who hold power by force and demontrate a willingness to spread their brutality elsewhere

Our main difference is basically what i have already stated: do stronger nations have the right to intervene in other nations sociopolitical status-quo, through military force, and try to impose their own patterns in order to serve selfish goals? No they dont....not the way this one took, and is still taking place as we speak. Please note that i never spoke of 'appeassing' Saddam or scumbags like Kim or Iran's theocratic blockheads. I just dont find a full scale military invasion necessary to acheive a goal. Clever, flexible and peaceful states try to exhaust the route of diplomatic and economic pressures, before launching a war.

Malc

07-27-2005, 01:22 PM

I think this quote does the best to describe what the coalition forces are doing in Iraq.

“In Iraq, we’re not fighting for ourselves,” said Bean, from his home base in Fort Campbell, Ky. “We’re over there fighting so the Iraqis can have their own Fourth of July.”

Those soldiers aren't there for oil, or wmd as far as the indivisual is concerned there helping the Iraqies.

achilles

07-27-2005, 01:25 PM

Those soldiers aren't there for oil, or wmd as far as the indivisual is concerned there helping the Iraqies.

I never doubted the good will of the simple soldiers fighting out there.

Weasel

07-27-2005, 02:04 PM

walford wrote:
Are you gonna piss on it first?

*unzips pants*

noooooooooooooooooooooo *goes blind*

Those soldiers aren't there for oil, or wmd as far as the indivisual is concerned there helping the Iraqies.

I never doubted the good will of the simple soldiers fighting out there.

Unfortunately (or not) the single soldiers is just a tool, a servant for politicians.

Maj C

07-27-2005, 02:23 PM

just to add to the fun...

Columbus, Ohio, native, Sunni Muslim fights in Global War on Terrorism
Submitted by: 2nd Marine Division
Story Identification #: 200572741650
Story by Cpl. Ken Melton

HADITHA DAM, Iraq (July 27, 2005) -- As the Marines with 3rd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment continue their fight in the Global War on Terrorism, most of them think of it as business and not personal.

However, for some Marines who are of the Islamic faith, the war in Iraq hits a personal note. Cpl. Mohammed N. Rahman, who is a Sunni Muslim, fights not only to free the people of Iraq from the insurgents grip and to protect his country (America), but also to redeem his beloved religion.

“This is a personal offense, not only to me but others who share my faith,” said the 23-year-old infantryman with 2nd Platoon, Company L. “The insurgents have scarred the image of my religion.”

Rahman was born in Dhaka, Bangladesh where he learned to speak Bangla, Hindi, Urdu, and Arabic during his childhood, before moving the United States with his family at age 12.

Upon arriving in America, he strove to learn the English language while adjusting to the busy and culturally different society.

He joined the Marine Corps in 2001 because of its discipline and its tradition that closely mirrored the practices of his beliefs.

Rahman was shocked to learn later in the year that the terrorists of the Sept. 11 attack announced that they were Sunni Muslims and that their faith had led them to attack.

“I was outraged by this ludicrous image that the insurgents portrayed about my faith,” the Columbus, Ohio native said. “No one really feels the same way they feel.”

Now Rahman is working to redeem his faith and putting his linguistic skills to good use while supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

On missions, Rahman, in addition to being a rifleman, acts a linguist for his squad. As a linguist he informs the local community he comes in contact with about the Marines mission here and helps them understand that the service members are here to help them.

“Most of these people don’t know or understand things outside their society,” the 2000 Worthington-Kilbourne graduate said. “Most people don’t understand that the reason we are here is to help them have a better life and to remove these dangerous insurgents.”

Many of the people he talks to do not follow the insurgents’ belief in a jihad (holy war) on America and they do not believe in any religious wars between the Sunni and Shia.

Sometimes people even give him useful information that they think could help them, because of their shared religion.

Even though he is a Sunni Muslim, he is not allowed in the local mosques, which are of the same faith as he is for political reasons. Instead, he finds time to worship in his own way.

“As we go on missions during prayer times I go through the prayer process in my head,” Rahman said. “I try to find time to pray when I’m back at the dam.”

Rahman understands the importance of the missions he goes on and he knows that his small part in a bigger war is not overlooked and he hopes it will be over soon.

“I trust in our leaders’ decisions,” Rahman said with a smile. “I will continue to do my job the best I can, through my actions, my faith will be redeemed, and my country will be safe.”

achilles

07-27-2005, 02:36 PM

walford

07-27-2005, 03:21 PM

Yea that's right. A small pathetic band of assholes blowing people up in order to install a dictatorship characterizes the true Big Picture.Come again?

According to the director of the Iraqi intelligence services, Gen. Mohammed Shahwani, "There are 200 thousand insurgents" ( at least 40 thousand of them, hard coreIraq's Insurgency (http://www.alonben-meir.com/articls/iraq_insurgency-catch22.htm)

If this is what you call a 'small and pathetic BAND of assholes', then i am afraid we have a diametrically opposite perception of size. This 'band' of people can sustain suicide combings for centuries to come. And by all evidence, this kind of terrorism cannot be beaten the American way.That is in juxtaposition to the MILLIONS of Iraqis who are risking their lives rebuilding the country and fostering limited representative government.

And insofar as terrorism being beaten, we have found through 12 years of 'containing' Saddam that the UN way is beyond absurd.

The American way in Iraq is mostly not military, it involves humanitarian relief, construction, education, bringing in equipment, etc. -- but we are not seeing that in the media.

Turhapuro

07-27-2005, 04:17 PM

walford

07-27-2005, 04:29 PM

From that artice:
he insurgents are actually more like a mid-size army, numbering in the tens of thousands. Many of their fighters had extensive training in the military under Saddam Hussein; they are organized, well equipped and well financed, extremely committed, disciplined, and willing to die for a cause they believe in.Uhhuh. I wonder why these super-soldiers didn't kick US Army ass in the first place? ;)Because they are lousy on the battlefield, but extremely effective at hit-and-run ambushes and killing unarmed civilians.

Underestimating enemy is extremely dangerous but overestimating is not good option either.

Probably those estimates of 200k insurgents are there for justify iraqi interior security forces lousy performance.I don't underestimate the enemy's capabilities to disrupt, but think that they are being given too much credit and attention in comparison to the good work that is being done by the coalition -- and the far more numerous Iraqis who are working to stabilize their country so that they can have it back sooner.

achilles

07-27-2005, 05:22 PM

Because they are lousy on the battlefield, but extremely effective at hit-and-run ambushes and killing unarmed civilians.

Right...also because they do not have your cutting edge hardware and satellite tehnology to keep them updated on the enemy's position.

Listen, i am no insurgency fan but hey... ;)

Maj C

07-28-2005, 07:55 AM

Marine with dual citizenship fights for two countries
Submitted by: 2nd Marine Division
Story by: Computed Name: Cpl. Ken Melton
Story Identification #: 200572853156

HIT, AL ANBAR, Iraq(July 28, 2005) -- The Marines on 3rd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment’s personnel roster is unlike most others. It consists of Marines from all 50 states and numerous other countries.

One of these Marines who hail from outside the U.S. is Lance Cpl. Daniel A. Elborne, an infantryman with 1st platoon, Company L. Elborne was born in a small town outside London and sees his service in the Corps as a way to serve both the U.S. and Great Britain.

“I’ve been in the United States since I was 5, but I still have strongly family ties back in London,” the 24-year-old said. “Being apart of the Marine Corps, I know I can defend them both from any enemy.”

Elborne grew up in San Antonio before moving to New York after graduating high school. On September 11, a few miles from “Ground Zero” his life took a turn that would eventually lead him to join the Marine Corps and serve here in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

“I did a lot research on the United States Marines as well the British Royal Marines,” the 1999 Robert E. Lee graduate said. “I have a lot pride in being a British citizen, but after I saw the aftermath of the attack, I knew then that I needed to be a Marine to try and prevent things like that from happening anywhere.”

Knowing that being in one of the toughest military organization would take a lot of training, both physically and mentally. So he began studying military history and exercised vigorously.

While preparing to enlist, he also had to obtain his citizenship, which he until then had not thought about getting.

“I’m the first member of my family to be a (U.S.) citizen and until that point, I was happy to be an immigrant in this great country,” Elborne said. “I earned my citizenship for America and maintained my citizenship from the United Kingdom two weeks before recruit training. That was one of the best decision I’ve ever made.”

After completing his training, he was assigned to the 4th Reconnaissance Battalion in San Antonio before deploying to Iraq this past spring.

In Iraq, he served as part of Camp Al Asad’s base security with Company I, until was reassigned to Company L to participate in Operation Saif (Sword) and the follow-on missions to establish a permanent presence here.

Recently he helped apprehend a suspected insurgent who had positioned a roadside bomb near a mosque.

“I really felt like I played a part in the war by helping bring this guy in,” Elborne said smiling. “I figure this is just one more guy who cannot deter our efforts to help the people of this city.”

Elborne expressed his feelings about the recent terrorist attack in London and he uses it as an example of why he is here fighting in the Global War on Terrorism.

“It goes to show that America is not the only country in danger from these guys and that’s why I’m glad both my countries are fighting them together,” Elborne said. “We will continue to fight and win, but I think it’s just wonderful that I have not just the support of my adopted country, America, but my home country of England.”

walford

07-28-2005, 08:37 AM

Here are a few that Falco posted (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=44) on another thread :

Here are a few examples from the Navy news website about the SeaBees. I'm sure if you go look up the US army corp of engeneer you will be able to find other examples.[i]Seabees Clean Up Fallujah (http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=13765)
…While maintaining a combat stance, NMCB 74's Bees engaged in the clean-up of areas damaged by extensive battle in the Fallujah area. Ample evidence of past confrontations was scattered across the highways around the town, including empty shell casings, bits of broken pavement and mangled guardrails lining the roadways.

“We divided the area into four quadrants and concentrated on one quadrant at a time,” said Senior Chief Equipment Operator Chris Redding. "We had to gather up all the guardrails into one central location and bury them about eight feet deep."

Although the area around Fallujah has been relatively calm of late, it is still considered dangerous…

MEF Engineer Group Seabees Helping to Rebuild Iraq (http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7608)
While many of the U.S. troops in the Middle East are starting to think about going home, the First Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF) Engineer Group (MEG) Seabees continue to seek out and complete a multitude of rebuilding projects in Iraq.

Called civil-military operations (CMO), these projects combine the efforts of coalition forces and local citizens, to improve the general welfare of the Iraqi people and support U.S. forces still in theater. The result is setting a framework for the incoming Organization for Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance and Non-Governmental Organizations.

How do the Seabees maintain momentum and motivation to continue working, while their Marine and Soldier counterparts are preparing to pack up and depart? MEG Command Master Chief Kevin Timmons, who is responsible for the keeping the pulse on the morale and welfare of the MEG enlisted troops, explains, “As long as there’s a purpose, the Seabees will work 24 hours a day to get a job done. U.S. Navy Seabees are the best resource around to ensure mission accomplishment. There is no one better suited to accomplish the humanitarian mission.”

Seabees Repair Major Iraqi Airfield, Make Humanitarian Aid Possible (http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7305)
If an airport is more than just a place where planes land, the same can be said about a military air base.

The cargo a plane carries might save lives, rebuild schools, treat the sick, and/or heal a community. That’s the force driving Seabees from Naval Mobile Construction Battalion (NMCB) 133 to work day and night to repair the main runway on the newly named “Blair Field” near the city of Al Kut, Iraq. The result of their efforts will solve a supply problem that has been slowing humanitarian action to a crawl for coalition forces throughout the Wasit province.

Republican Guard soldiers destroyed the runway prior to coalition forces taking over the Al Kut Air Base. They used explosives to put eleven craters along the 11,000-foot runway rendering it unusable. The repair process sounds simple enough. Fill the holes with concrete. But, it is a little more involved than it sounds.

“It wasn’t easy,” said Builder 1st Class Michael Zangli, of Upper Black Eddy, Penn. “We started out using jackhammers to clean the edge of the craters, but it wasn’t getting us anywhere with a runway made with 12 inch thick reinforced concrete.”

The area around the craters was heaved up by the explosion, making it necessary to remove all of the concrete in the entire affected pad. Equipment Operators worked in shifts so they could run a hydraulic pavement breaker (a huge jackhammer that is attached to an excavator) 24 hours a day. The 8th Engineering Support Battalion attempted to blow a dozen pads with C-4 explosive. Drilling the holes required for the explosive turned out to be more time consuming than using the hydraulic concrete buster.Maybe it's because I'm holed up here ion Chicoutimi, but I haven't seen any of those stories in the newspapers

walford

08-02-2005, 08:24 PM

Female Soldier receives Silver Star in Iraq (http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/soldierstories/?pageNum_rsContent=1&totalRows_rsContent=141)
For the first time since World War II, an Army woman was awarded the Silver Star for valor June 16 in Iraq.

Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of the 617th Military Police Company, a National Guard unit out of Richmond, Ky., received the Silver Star, along with two other members of her unit, for their actions during an enemy ambush on their convoy.

Hester's squad was shadowing a supply convoy March 20 when anti-Iraqi fighters ambushed the convoy. The squad moved to the side of the road, flanking the insurgents and cutting off their escape route. Hester led her team through the "kill zone" and into a flanking position, where she assaulted a trench line with grenades and M203 grenade-launcher rounds. She and Staff Sgt. Timothy Nein, her squad leader, then cleared two trenches, at which time she killed three insurgents with her rifle.

When the fight was over, 27 insurgents were dead, six were wounded, and one was captured...

...Hester, who has been in the National Guard since April 2001, said she didn't have time to be scared when the fight started, and she didn't realize the impact of what had happened until much later.

"Your training kicks in and the soldier kicks in," she said. "It's your life or theirs. ... You've got a job to do -- protecting yourself and your fellow comrades."
Task Force Baghdad reports on progress of Iraq reconstruction (http://www.portaliraq.com/news/Task+Force+Baghdad+reports+on+progress+of+Iraq+reconstruction__1111395.html)
Task Force Baghdad has provided an update on the progress of Iraq reconstruction, stating that since the transfer of sovereignty a total of 1,451 projects valued at $1.4 billion have been completed. Large-scale capital projects like power plants, water treatment plants and oil infrastructure facilities are being reconstructed and, in some cases, built anew.

The update is as follows:

Electricity

Demand for electricity is currently growing faster than it is able to be supplied; however, new power lines of 33 kilovolts have been completed. Generation plants are being built and transmission lines are being constructed to replace a decades-old, neglected electrical power system.

A total of more than 2,000 megawatts of power have been added to the grid (enough to service 5.4 million Iraqi homes). More than 1,400 electrical towers and 8,600 kilometers of transmission lines have been installed.

Sanitation

Many sewer trunk lines have been cleaned or fixed. Work on the majority of sewer trunk lines continues and progress continues.

Each day, 50 million additional gallons of treated, drinkable water are being pumped to the Baghdad residents. New water wells and treatment facilities are in the progress of being constructed in addition to new delivery pipes being installed.

Solid waste (trash) is being removed from the majority of sites in the Baghdad area; with some areas having it removed at least twice a week.

Health

More than 20 healthcare facilities have been renovated, with many others in the process of being renovated.

walford

08-12-2005, 05:08 PM

Armor reducing casualties amid increased attacks (http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3714900)
(Pentagon-AP) August 12, 2005 - U.S. commanders no longer let supply vehicles leave secure bases in Iraq unless they're armored, and that's providing better protection for troops.

Army Brigadier General Yves Fontaine says although roadside bomb attacks have doubled since last year, casualty rates from those attacks are down. Fontaine is the Pentagon's chief supply officer in Iraq.

Fontaine commands U.S. transportation and other logistics forces there.

He says there are about 30 insurgent attacks on his convoys each week. Most occur in the so-called Sunni Triangle north and west of Baghdad. Convoys coming from Kuwait, Jordan and Turkey are at the greatest risk.

Skullknight

08-12-2005, 05:52 PM

Instability in central and south Iraq has created an exodus of professionals to the safe and booming Kurdistan...

Iraqis flock to Kurdish north for jobs, safety
By Luke Baker

SULAIMANIYA (Iraq): Each morning before dawn, hundreds of Arabs from southern Iraq gather near a mosque in this northern Kurdish city hoping to find work on one of scores of construction sites dotting the landscape.

What began 18 months ago as a trickle of poor, unemployed young men moving north to find work and escape terrorism and violence by insurgents in predominantly Arab areas has now turned into a rapid stream.

And it’s no longer just the poor and jobless fleeing.

Professionals — including doctors, engineers and teachers — are following them, desperate to escape the chaos tearing cities such as Baghdad, Basra, Baquba and Hilla apart.

“I came here for safety, and for my family,” says Dr Ali Alwan, 40, an eye specialist who moved from the southern city of Basra to Sulaimaniya in late 2003 and has since encouraged dozens of former colleagues to follow him.

“Here it is a wonderful life. The children are in school, my wife is happy and there is good work,” he says. “I don’t think I will ever return to Basra.”

Around 25 eye specialists alone have since taken the same route out of Basra, he says. At the Razgari out-patient clinic in Sulaimaniya, eight of the 13 doctors are Arabs who arrived in the past two years, according to director Khalil Ibrahim Mohammed.

Young trainees, desperately needed in places like Baghdad and Basra where hospitals are understaffed and overworked, are also getting out. At Sulaimaniya’s teaching hospital, 20 of this year’s interns — the majority — are from Basra.

“Here things are normal, we are a normal hospital,” says Karzan Sirwan, a Kurdish surgeon at the hospital. “I can understand why they come, and we need them too.”

There are sometimes language barriers — most Arabs don’t speak Kurdish — but since all Iraq’s doctors are trained in English, they can communicate with one another, and translators are on hand to help doctors talk to Kurdish patients.

It’s a similar situation at Sulaimaniya’s university, where 40 Arab professors have joined the staff in the past two years, university officials say.

While the newly-arrived professionals are generally well paid — most medics make around $500 a month or more — the bulk of the labour flowing to Sulaimaniya is unskilled or semi- skilled and barely scrapes a living.

There are no hard figures on the total number who have migrated since the war, but an official in Sulaimaniya’s investment office put it in the thousands in Sulaimaniya alone.

Hundreds of poor Arab men gather in the centre of town each morning waiting to be taken to building sites by contractors. Many are recognisable by their headdress and darker features.

Mohammed Abbas, a 28-year-old Shia from Baghdad, came to Sulaimaniya two months ago. He works construction when he can find a job, and sells cigarettes otherwise.

“There is nothing for me to do in Baghdad,” he says. “At least here I can make $20 a day most days.” He says hundreds from his area of Baghdad have done the same thing to escape.

“I send money home to my family and when I have enough I will return to Baghdad and get married,” he says.

At night, they sleep in Sulaimaniya’s parks and squares. Those that have construction jobs sleep on site. At night, small fires can be seen burning inside half-built buildings.

Haider Salim Djuluwi, 20, came from Kut, in the southeast of Iraq, two months ago, looking for summer holiday work. He’s now making $10 a day as an unskilled labourer for a new court house.

“Friends came before me and said it was good. Twelve of us came together,” he said. “I’m not thinking about a better life, just about making some money and staying safe.”

In Arbil, the capital of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region, there has also been an influx of Arabs. Yacoub, a barber in the main hotel in town, came three months ago from Baghdad.

“Too many of my friends were threatened,” he said, referring to barbers who have been killed by militants for cutting hair in western styles or shaving beards. “Here I feel much safer.”

The language barrier is a problem, but he has found a house in a Christian village, where most people speak Arabic.—*******

budgie

08-13-2005, 07:06 AM

Those soldiers aren't there for oil, or wmd as far as the indivisual is concerned there helping the Iraqies.

I never doubted the good will of the simple soldiers fighting out there.

Ditto. Is the right trying to deliberately confuse disaffection with the President with unpatriotic lack of support for the troops. Pft, my conscience is clear...

walford

08-13-2005, 12:11 PM

Ditto. Is the right trying to deliberately confuse disaffection with the President with unpatriotic lack of support for the troops. Pft, my conscience is clear...But if we fail in Iraq you will be amongst the first to gloat over the president being discredited -- no matter the broad consequences. It would be galling for you if limited representative government is succussfully established in Iraq, wouldn't it? Then Bush would be proven right -- no matter the broad benefits.

walford

08-19-2005, 12:13 PM

Unusual recruits (http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=10974)
IRAQ: Comedians and peace moms take note: even as the casualty list grows, Ivy Leaguers and honor students are signing up to serve
As you're reading this, National Honor Society member Caity Swanson, 18, of Audubon, N.J., is likely cranking out one . . . more . . . pushup . . . under the stern eye of an Army drill sergeant at Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo. Princeton University senior Ross Williams, 21, is finalizing his plans to check out of the Ivy League and into the Marine Corps. And Congressional Award winner Asher Strassner, 18, just shipped out from his home in Houston to Navy boot camp in Great Lakes, Ill.

When Mr. Strassner signed up to begin basic training in August, he had no way of knowing the month would prove a brutal one in Iraq. American forces so far this month have lost at least 63 souls, including three Tennessee National Guard soldiers from the 278th Regimental Combat Team, who died Aug. 14 in a rocket-propelled grenade attack.

Families of the fallen grieve, some bitterly, like Cindy Sheehan, who since Aug. 6 has staged a mini war-protest outside George W. Bush's Texas ranch. Others, like Gary Reese of Ashland, Tenn., grieve proudly. His son, Sgt. Gary Lee Reese, 22, of the 278th, "is the only one from the town to die in the war," Mr. Reese told the Chattanooga Times Free Press. "He is someone I'm really proud to be the father of."

Mr. Reese believes "bad-mouthing" the war dishonors the dead. Meanwhile, even as casualties mount, thousands of young people are still signing up to serve, with only the Army and National Guard now falling short of recruiting goals. When widespread shortfalls made news earlier this year, comedian Bill Maher used the occasion to reinforce the stereotype that America scrapes its military from the bottom of the population barrel.

Quota-missing Army recruiters had, Mr. Maher quipped, "done picked all the low-lying Lyndie England fruit. And now we need warm bodies."

Ms. England, of course, is accused of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib. And Mr. Maher isn't the first person to suggest that the U.S. military is mainly a refuge for the depraved or desperate. In a May 2003 graduation speech at Rockford College, New York Times reporter Chris Hedges said the nation's fighting forces are made up mostly of "poor kids from Mississippi or Alabama or Texas who could not get a decent job or health insurance and joined the Army because it was all we offered them."

Is the military stereotype accurate? Karl Zinsmeister doesn't think so. During three stints as an embedded reporter in Iraq—the most recent in May 2005—the American Enterprise editor-in-chief met farm boys, poor boys, and boys escaping dead-end blue-collar towns. But he also encountered Cornell grads, Ph.D. candidates, and high-tech wunderkinds, and wrote about them in his 2003 book Boots on the Ground.

...as a senior, Caity, like thousands of American high-school students, took the military entrance exam. An Army recruiter saw her score—93 out of 99—and called her last December. That's when she learned about her dream school: The Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center (DLIFLC) in Monterey, Calif., the largest foreign language school in the world.

After careful discussion with her parents, Caity enlisted. She's now looking forward to learning a new language by immersion, packing two weeks of traditional college instruction into each day during the year-long course, and learning from native speakers. "The way they teach a foreign language is the way I want to learn it," she said.

She doesn't know which language yet—the military assigns that based on a student's ability and the government's need. But it's likely to be a tough one: Caity blew away the Defense Language Battery, qualifying her to learn any language the Institute offers, including those considered most difficult, like Chinese or Arabic.

With the war on terrorism, and Middle Eastern languages high on the Defense Department's wish list, is Caity worried she'll wind up in Iraq? "Wherever the Army sends me, I'm fine," she said in a June 30 phone interview, five days before heading out for boot camp. "God is in control. Whatever He wants for me, that's what I'm going to do."

Houston homeschool graduate Asher Strassner feels the same way. In February he enlisted in the Navy as a hospital corpsman and signed up for Fleet Marine Forces (FMF) training, a school he hopes will land him a job as a combat medic in Iraq...

"...Weeks before I enlisted, I never would have considered the military," he said. "My friends were surprised . . . but I didn't think I was ready for college. I thought if I went to college in the fall, I'd end up goofing off and getting bad grades."

Bound for boot camp this month, then corpsman and FMF training, Asher could touch down in Iraq late next year. He's hoping that's where he winds up.

"I have a friend in the Army who just got back and he's always telling us that the negative stuff we hear in the media [about American progress in Iraq] is 99 percent made up," Asher said. "He tells about all the Iraqis who love the Americans. . . . I think that's very interesting. I'd like to see that myself..."

...If his resumé is any indication, Ross, 21, will give as much as he gets. At his high school in Oyster Bay, N.Y.—a small town he describes as "close enough to New York City that you could smell September 11"—he served as student body president and graduated third in his class with a 4.0 GPA. He also earned all-state honors in vocal competition and made the all-county team as a long-distance runner.

Now a Princeton political science major who rows for his school's nationally ranked crew team, Ross had originally been accepted to West Point. "But I was told by a couple of cadets that if I wanted any sort of academic college life, I should go to a different school."

After completing his degree next spring, Ross plans to attend a 10-week officer training course in Quantico, Va., then accept a Marine Corps commission. His grandfather served as a Marine during World War II, and Ross said he also feels a call to serve his country, to do "something I'd enjoy looking back on, something I could be proud that I'd done."

WARPIG

08-19-2005, 12:57 PM

abncougar

08-19-2005, 04:02 PM

great job walford. :hug:

walford

08-19-2005, 04:13 PM

I love that someone is attempting to collect the news from Iraq that the mainstream media doesn't cover. I just question your intent walford. If you knew that this thread would draw fire.. why post it in the political discussions and rants section? It seems to me you were looking to draw fire. I will leave it here so you can field all the crap that has already been thrown and will likely continue. Trolling for an argument apparently isn't exclusive to the anti-US and left wingers.

If you are really interested in focusing on the less covered progress that goes on in Iraq, let me know and we can move this to a better area.I was naive enough to think that the Lefties would not **** on a thread that was composed entirely of news stories without commentary. My intent was to have one thread that had good news that could be built upon and used for future reference. But then, I forgot: You might be a Leftie if......someone dares post anything positive about the situation in Iraq in a message board, you cannot let that slide w/o ‘balancing’ it with something negative -- and a generous helping of vitriol for posting the good news in the first place.

Laworkerbee

08-19-2005, 04:50 PM

walford

08-19-2005, 05:52 PM

Benchmark 1,000th Reconstruction Project Completed in Iraq (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2005/20050531_1423.html)
The public spotlight recently shone on an unassuming, eight-classroom school in the town of Zakho, Iraq, and for good reason. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Gulf Region Division, responsible for oversight of reconstruction in Iraq, announced it had identified Betas School as its 1,000th completed reconstruction project...

..."I have been the headmaster at Betas School for many years," he said, "but I never imagined it could be such a wonderful school. I am very happy for the teachers and students."

...Renovations to the school included replacing water tanks, water piping, and sewer pipes; installing toilets and sinks; laying a concrete floor and terrazzo tiles; and installing ceiling fans, interior and exterior lights and a school bell. Repairs also were made to the school safety wall.

While Betas School renovation is the 1,000th project, the pristine schoolhouse also serves as a symbol of the 840 planned school projects throughout the country. To date, 171 of these projects are ongoing, and 580 school projects are complete.

Spending on reconstruction projects in Iraq has reached more than $5.5 billion. Thus far, of the 3,200 total planned projects countrywide, 2,389 have started, 1,215 are ongoing, and 1,174 have been completed in the sectors of Buildings, Health, and Education; Oil, Security and Justice; Electricity; Transportation and Communications; and Public Works and Water...
Defense Department provides update on Iraq reconstruction progress (http://www.portaliraq.com/news/Defense+Department+provides+update+on+Iraq+reconstruction+progress__1111448.html)
About 18,000 Iraqi schoolchildren will attend freshly refurbished schools this autumn, according to the update. Forty-three schools in the northern and southern provinces have received funds for renovation and repair; contracts have been awarded to do the work. More than $1.3 million within the Iraq Relief Reconstruction Fund (IRRF) has been budgeted to continue a nationwide school repair program to rehabilitate sanitary facilities, electrical and mechanical systems and to make structural repairs to schools in Karbala, Dahuk, Najaf, Basrah and Qadisiyah.

During an operation on August 5 in western Mosul, more than 200 Iraqi children received medical screenings from coalition forces, with support from Iraqi police. Soldiers and medics handed out soccer balls and hygiene products to the local children while conducting the screenings. More than 1,000 children have received medical screenings during this and four similar operations since mid-July...
Riyadh Pledges $1bn for Iraq Reconstruction (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=65795&d=23&m=6&y=2005)
Saudi Arabia yesterday emphasized its vision of an independent and unified Iraq and said it would extend $1 billion in the form of soft loans for the reconstruction of the war-torn country.

Addressing an international conference here, attended by over 80 governments and international institutions, Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said Riyadh was also ready to write off part of Iraq’s debt burden.

The conference backed the efforts of Baghdad’s transitional government to fight terrorism, while the United States and the European Union warned Syria to stop insurgents using its territory for attacks in Iraq.

The daylong meeting also resulted in international promises to help reduce Iraq’s foreign debt, speed up aid deliveries and contribute to efforts to draft a new constitution.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned Syria to stop insurgents from crossing its border with Iraq. “This is a real problem for the Iraqi people ... something needs to be done,” she said.

“Terrorism can and will be defeated in Iraq... Our own security is dependent on defeat of terror in this great region,” Rice told reporters.

In his keynote address, Prince Saud stressed the importance of bringing political stability to Iraq, saying it was a “precondition for the success of this conference.”

He promised that Saudi Arabia would play the role of a “principal partner” in the Iraqi reconstruction process. “We have already given $300 million in humanitarian aid to the Iraqi people...”

SOG

08-19-2005, 06:35 PM

[quote=achilles]Of course you understand that its not the content of the information that offends me per se, but rather that fact that you think bad news can be countered by what you posted.I offered no commentary. The only purpose was to balance the negative coverage with the positive. It is called TELLING THE WHOLE STORY. I knew that those who prefer to wallow in gloom would be outraged that such stories would even be made available.

I have absolutely no problem with posting additional info on Iraq, hell, and i am far from being outraged :lol:. In fact i fully support attempts to tell the whole story. What i dont agree with, is the fact that you seriously consider your posts as 'balancing the bad news', given what has been going on in Iraq for two years now. Complementing the story is one thing and trying to balance the gloominess is another....

actually there is a lot more the media glazes over or doesnt report at all that would change peoples mind greatly. while i dont think the news compares to losing lives it is important to have the whole picture. balance is not essential. the truth is. and the truth has been lacking.

You know that i am not easily offended, at least by my standards, but quoting comments such as 'we are in Iraq so that Iraq can have its own 4th of July' really makes me wonder of the IQ of all the people who fall for it, Americans or not..And I am left to question the motives of those who preach that Iraq is a quagmire, that US is there to turn Iraq into today's Belgian Congo, etc. Don't they know that the terrorists find this encouraging? Don't they know that ignoring the good and dwelling on the bad gives them the idea that we are becoming demoralized so that if they continue the bloodshed a bit longer we will quit?

I dont think their actions depend so much on their perception of YOUR moral...you have launched two full-scaled wars...have you seen the terrorists been shaken by that? Quite the opposite...look at London, Constantinople, Egypt and stay tuned for more places soon...they will never quit for as long as you set your foreign foot on their soils.

the difference this time is that when we leave we will leave behind a foundation that the terrorists cannot pull apart. like problems in afghanistan or even pakistan we are not there to win the "complete" war on terror. that is impossible. we are there to build against terror long term by building a foundation of government we can work with thereby leaving the place better than before. and yes that is true, they will never quit till we leave thier soil, and when we do, theywill see the infrastructure left behind cannot be toppled over by mere tacts of terrorism like before. we are changing the poltical climate and take on terrorism on thier turf and hopefully they enforce it full well.

The quote to which you refer was from someone who is over there encountering actual Iraqi people. Apparently having gone through such an experience and feeling positive about it is evidence of stupidity for you.

Going through such an experience and getting in close contact with Iraqis is a bless, within all the turbulence. Telling people sentimental BS like the quote above is stupid i am afraid, plain and simple...sounds suitable for brainwashing kids in elementary school. Minimally thinking people know why wars take place most of the times walford...

its funny how anything positive is simply propaganda in your eyes. its a wonder how you get out of bed everyday when you know your a waste. such defeatism. reality is it can work and it may. if you think it wont thats one thing, but dont **** about it here.

.the war in Iraq is a hegemonical war, like almost EVERY war, every superpower has been conducted for the last few thousand years.I stand by Dr. Rice's initial assessment that we can take Saddam out now or wait until he's stronger, but war was inevitable. The war in Iraq is one of those who choose to target civilians in order to install a dictatorship against those who are rebuilding a long-neglected country and foster limited representative government. To compare this to any of the expansionist empires that has characterized human history is intellectually dishonest.

Not at all. It is just that hegemonical expansion has changed form throughout the years. You will not actually raise the American flag at the center of Baghdad for years to come and add one more star to your flag, but, in theory, you will have one more puppet state at the heart of the middle-east. Having said that, the war in Iraq has nothing to do with all those nice things you referred to above. What is actually intellectually dishonest is obscuring the real casus beli with carefully crafted parlance that has nothing to do with the reasons that you invadied Iraq in the first place.

oh god, here we go with the ****ing conspirital bull**** again. hide under your foil hat. i like the fact that you and those like you call ANYONE who works with americas puppets ranging from spain to england to the philipines to half the world. i guess in your eyes we should let them become iran all over again and continue warring with their neighbors and we should pay a nation that openly supports terrorism and terrorist elements. or not.

I am sure the Iraqis as a whole would have had much more fun under Saddam during the last couple of years, instead of the endless bloodshed and puppet government you have endowed them with.There is no comparison to the atrocities commited under Saddam. The bloodshed that continues lies at the feet of thugs who will surely escalate the killing if they are permitted to take power. In other words, they will emulate Saddam.

They are already doing it at a larger scale just because your are there.

and once we leave?

Who gives you the right to judge who, why and how to democratise a country? Who are you to consider yourselves as having the right and ability to export your own socio-economic models that work in some places, but might not work in others? In any case, who are you to impose anything on anyone, even for good or for bad?I do not share in your implied conviction that dictatorship is right for some people. No, freedom is right for ALL people -- it is not simply an equally valid alternate lifestyle.

You did not address any of my questions....i realize that your answers may sound arrogant. ;)
And allow me a small correction. I never implied that dictatorship is good for some people. Only democracy in its purest form can be good for MOST people. All i am saying is that noone has the right to impose his/her notion of 'democracy' and 'freedom' through an extremely bloody war, which was based on fake evidence and blatant lying, in the name of serving individualistic purposes. No state has ever been benevolent. America definitely does not qualify as being the pioneer in that ;)

partially incorrect. based on fake evidence? no, that would mean planted evidence. of which there was none. there was guessing as to what iraq had. i never saw evidence of wmd. i saw the US guessing as to what iraq had and drawing up charts about it. and the whole war based on this? entirely utterly incorrect. it was the focal point powell made to the UN because the UN (you & us) had subjacated iraq to ten years of sanctions over what? wmd. which of course didnt exist. so when you ask the UN to help out which shouldnt be a problem considering they have been persecuting iraq under wmd for ten years then why not?

also the tired incorrect and lying arguement you make that the war was soley over wmd is laughable at best. being here in the US i clearly remember several cases for war, wmd being one on the checklist. bush also mentioned dozens of times terrorists and thier open connections/support with iraq which has been posted many times here. and the third and least used reason he glossed over was safe gaurding the middle east proactively ensuring a foot against terrorists over there instead of over here.

one, oil. which now that he has won the election, oil isnt being thrown around like the accusing factoid it was back in the day. go figure, since it was never huge to begin with and we could have gone on for years under UN sanctions buying oil from iraq just fine.

often you amongst others have pointed out why iraq? why not syria or iran. then you point out oil. entirely correct! we give tons of money to iraq and we will continue to do so. therin lies the problem. you cannot openly & heavily fund such a state based on your needs while they parade around supporting and condoning terrorism. by attacking iraq our oil money is no longer being used against us for the most part. 2nd, we now have another good footing in the middle east, the 1st being with israel and the 2nd being with the saudis. 3rd, we now have a forward base of ops against iran and syria in what we hope is to become (iraq) a semi friendly nation to westerners once the majority has pulled out and the government hopefully maintains.

so now we are giving money to a less corrupt government that will build up iraq with hospitals, schools, many more jobs, open trade with the US and many other countries. yeah i can see how you hate that. this is form the same anti line of thinking "let them live on welfare". no, let them make something of themsleves. what a concept. take pride in who you are, build something worth a damn then all of a sudden you have something to live for. what a concept. one that has glossed over palenstien.

Further, we in the West should have learned that it is not possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with aggressive tyrants. Tyranny is a cancer that spreads. It lashes out unpredictably. War and poverty will continue so long as tyranny does. That is what gives us the right.

If tyranny is a quickly spreading disease and lashes out unpredictably then next time you launch an offensive war make sure you choose the RIGHT place to lead your troops into. If you theoretically want to relieve people try N.Korea, S.Arabia or Turkmenistan, among other choices. But again, nothing grands you the right to impose to other countries what Bush and his fellows have in mind. When did America become such a mature and wise superpower aso to be able to load, aim and shoot at other people what she thinks is right FOR HER?

wrong. whats grants us the right is saddam paying cash out to suicide bombers families. what grants us the right is saddams personall funding of factories making suicide vests and equipment many of which we got a hold of entering iraq. what grants us the right is us and half the world is paying iraq for oil fairly and in turn it is feeding fear, oppression, and terrorism against us and our allies like israel. with saddams glorius paintings of missles destroying israel to the multitude or paintings seen throughout iraq praising sept 11. we have gone to war for much much less in the past from ww1 & ww2 against germans, korea, vietnam and the gulf war. nothing grants us the right? guess you dont live here. guess what the US is doing is so much more horrible compared to the 100,000 dying under UN sanctions a year plus whatever saddam whacked tortured killed and maimed. didnt here you running your ****tard mouth off at that before the war. oh thats right, you didnt give a **** till your media spoon fed you something to hate with a twist. would you be upset if your money was being used not only for terrorism but against you and your allies?

What aggressive tyrants, man? It is you who set foot in the middle east uninvited, a long long time ago...You engaged with the Arabs in a peculiar way and you should have been more prepared for the consequences. Noone has attacked you first.

Saddam was not 'contained,' he was financing and hosting terrorism. Iraq was not at peace under Saddam because a dictatorship is essentially a state in which the government declares war upon its own people. And the casualties were heavy during the '90s were they not?

Again. If you wanted to fight terrorism you could have attacked Iran or *gasp* Saudi Arabia. Saddams support for the terrorists was rather ambiguous and in any case did not qualify him as target number 1 in your so called war on terror.

actually we couldnt and we didnt. 1st we need to cut off direct support we are giving the terrorists whatsoever. thats right, the US is supporting terrorism through oil purchase. no can do. removed that head. hopefully it stays removed.

2nd, we now have a very close place in which to operate against terrorism in its own backyard. wow, the idea! cmon, look at the map, who does iraq border with?

3rd, if we build relations with our puppet iraq as you call them by giving them contracts, trade with the world, free non state run news then we have cemented a decent allie like the saudis.

attack saudi arabia over terrorism? LOL, guess you dont know about our relationship with them. while its not the best place to visit it is a very far cray from iran or syria. the saudis purchase military technology from us, it is them who kept the m1a2 alive when our congress thought tanks a cold war relic. and it is the saudis who we work and trade with and once in a while fight in cooperation with under the UN. hardly a need for invasion there mate.

No, Iraq's future was not at all certain under the Ba'athists. History has shown a number of times that oppressed people revolt and overthrow brutal regimes... its seems that this process in the middle-east evolves slowly, but evolves...dictators dont remain in power for ever.History has shown that dictatorships don't fall unless the military refuses to follow orders to slaughter civilians. This happened in the Phillipines and the USSR. Most often what happens is what occurred in Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Beijing in 1989.

It has happened in Greece in 1974, it has happened in Spain with Franco, it has happened in India. Your 'universal' rule does not stand on sound grounds. People revolt and manage to restore democracy and stability with their own blood because they choose how when and where to do it.

that is too true and some have questioned will a democracy or whatever or however the iraqis rule, will it work? time will tell. this is almost a 50/50 chance pending the US's involvement with iraq. just because people revolt and rebuild a nation with thier own blood hardly means it will succeed anymore than a third party helping. french revolts and revolutions? many many countries in south america? hell america won its independence from britain just to turn on itself later. so saying that because they didnt build it, that it wont work is guessplay at best. one large factor is the US. how do we leave them? with what do we leave them? if we leave them better off then before then hopefully they stabilize. if not then we have failed. time will tell.

The implication here is that the minority Ba'athist dictatorship was of the Iraqi people's choosing or that it wasn't bad enough for them to remove. Tens of thousands in mass-graves give indication of otherwise. It is always wrong to leave dictators in power. 12 needless years of suffering under the UN sanctions/inspection regime stand as cruel testament to the moral obscenity of 'containment.'

It is always wrong to be at the wrong place, in the wrong time for the wrong reasons, while telling people emotional nonsense like 'we are fighting for the Iraqi 4th of July'. Mistakes never pass by for free...

emotional nonsense from the mouth of a warrrior on the front line fighting for anothers freedom? how carelessly you pass them off. you tell that to his face. we will see who is standing at the wrong place at the wrong time. if this was in public half those words would have never left your mouth. they see these people on a daily basis. they get killed by them, kill them, love some, and hate some. we have some of the most qualified people on iraq speaking and it is emotional nonsense? WOW!

dammit, and you know what, it makes me laugh my ass off everytime someone says, why iraq? you cannot find evidence they directed terror against you. who cares if they supported terror against israel, kuwait, thier own people and the kurds with yours and others money.

well, then what the hell are you doing in A-stan fighting a war with the US because of september 11th?

walford

08-25-2005, 06:54 PM

Iraqi, U.S. Soldiers bring goodwill to Horajeb (http://www.dvidshub.net/index.php?script=news/news_show.php&id=2828)
As part of a U.S. and Iraqi stability and support operation, several truck loads of humanitarian assistance rolled out from a forward operating base in southern Baghdad to provide Horajeb residents with basic food items, medical supplies, and recreational items Aug. 17...

“Expect to see the Army increasingly hand authority and responsibility over to Iraqi Security Forces, as part of the overall picture, to allow citizens to see and feel more comfortable with many of the new faces,” said Capt. Darrell Retherford, a team leader with the 490th Civil Affairs Battalion during a briefing to his Soldiers.

Pointing to Iraqi Soldiers unloading supplies into the rear of a utility pickup, the Abilene, Texas, resident continued, “They are the ones who will be here long after we leave, and when that happens the people here need to know who is responsible for them, doing the patrols and protecting them.”

...The town sits removed from the steady stream of images coming out of more familiar parts of Baghdad. It is a few miles south of the city and west of the Tigris River—a postcard image of what one might imagine the Fertile Crescent to be with rows of orchards, date trees and watermelon fields.

This southern-most area of Al Rashid is generally considered an agricultural area. Lately, however, there has been less of a presence of Coalition Forces. Concerned local leaders and Iraqi Security Forces fear an increasing number of terrorists have moved into the area.

That’s one reason why Retherford helped orchestrate this mission named appropriately Operation Thunder Goodwill, a gesture toward entrusting local authorities and showing they are in charge here...

...The POB Soldiers were in the background shouting “Emshee, emshee,” as they tried to run off the hordes of smiling children, hands clutching soccer balls and T-shirts. The Imam offered to work with the new POB to keep terrorist activity away from Horajeb, which has been without major incident for nearly five months.

The operation was conducted during the early-morning hours as Soldiers delivered rice, canned chicken, tomato sauce and medical supplies put together by organizations in the United States. The toys and soccer balls were donated by friends and family members of the 3/3 ACR and collected by the 490th CA Bn. for distribution.

“Our operations are not always about cordon and searches or raids,” said Maj. Eric Carpenter, chief of plans for 4th BCT. “Operation Thunder Goodwill allows us to support the ISF and get them on the streets, so they can talk to the residents and let them know we are working to make their neighborhoods safer...”

“...You can see that much of that early effort of what we did here back in Operation Iraqi Freedom 1 had a significant impact on the daily lives of Iraqis living in the area today. The food distribution today is mostly a goodwill gesture,” said Sgt. First Class Vester Bland, also from the 490th CA Bn. and an Abilene, Texas, native.

Coalition Forces understand that to beat back terrorism, humanitarian assistance operations like the one that occurred Aug. 17 must go forward as part of a larger strategy of using generosity to encourage peace.

SuperShot5000

08-27-2005, 02:31 PM

The media never likes to point out good advancements in Coalition progress in Iraq. But when someone someone f*cks up, they're all over the story like flies on ****.

Good thread.

walford

01-16-2006, 10:21 AM

U.S. Army sniper nails record shot (http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060115-111618-6393r.htm)
...Gazing through the telescopic sight of his M-24 rifle, Army Staff Sgt. Jim Gilliland, leader of Shadow sniper team, fixed his eye on the Iraqi insurgent who had just killed an American soldier.

His quarry stood nonchalantly in the fourth-floor bay window of a hospital in battle-torn Ramadi, still clasping a long-barreled Kalashnikov. Instinctively allowing for wind speed and bullet drop, Shadow's commander aimed 12 feet high.

A single shot hit the Iraqi in the chest and killed him instantly. It had been fired from a range of more than three-quarters of a mile, well beyond the capacity of the powerful Leupold sight, accurate to 3,300 feet.

"I believe it is the longest confirmed kill in Iraq with a 7.62mm rifle," said Sgt. Gilliland, 28, who hunted squirrels in Double Springs, Ala., from the age of 5 before progressing to deer -- and then to insurgents and terrorists.

"He was visible only from the waist up. It was a one-in-a-million shot. I could probably shoot a whole box of ammunition and never hit him again."

Later that day, Sgt. Gilliland found out that the American soldier who had been killed by the Iraqi was Staff Sgt. Jason Benford, 30, a good friend.

The insurgent was one of between 55 and 65 Sgt. Gilliland estimates that he has shot dead in less than five months, putting him within striking distance of sniper legends such as Carlos Hathcock, a Marine who recorded 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam.... .

signatory

01-16-2006, 10:32 AM

. .

What qualifies as big media ?

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060115-111618-6393r.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/01/wirq01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixnewstop.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/specialist-killers-give-war-their-best-shot/2006/01/01/1136050344444.html

Sniper RMM story

walford

01-16-2006, 10:39 AM

What qualifies as big media ?
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060115-111618-6393r.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/01/wirq01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixnewstop.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/specialist-killers-give-war-their-best-shot/2006/01/01/1136050344444.htm (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/specialist-killers-give-war-their-best-shot/2006/01/01/1136050344444.html)The above sources were among the few that actually would print such a story [except I don't know the Aussie paper's editorial policy].If it wasn't shown on CNN, the networks, the Washington Post, Newsweek, etc., it didn't happen.

Sniper RMM storyI did a freakin' search. vBulletin's search function is notoriously sh*tty. Sue me.

signatory

01-16-2006, 11:21 AM

The above sources were among the few that actually would print such a story [except I don't know the Aussie paper's editorial policy].If it wasn't shown on CNN, the networks, the Washington Post, Newsweek, etc., it didn't happen.
I did a freakin' search. vBulletin's search function is notoriously sh*tty. Sue me.

Well I don't want to mess up your thread here but could you honestly see any of those big one bother about a kill by a sniper? Something like that's hardly news worthy beyond military magazines and forums like this one, I'm pretty sure most of the regulars here and on other mil sites had seen it.
So obviously it's not carried by the big media, just like many bad news is not carried by the big media. Yet I don't see such a thread here.

walford

01-16-2006, 01:08 PM

Is everything alright in the critics' section?

Bia

01-16-2006, 03:56 PM

Well I don't want to mess up your thread here but could you honestly see any of those big one bother about a kill by a sniper? Something like that's hardly news worthy beyond military magazines and forums like this one, I'm pretty sure most of the regulars here and on other mil sites had seen it.
So obviously it's not carried by the big media, just like many bad news is not carried by the big media. Yet I don't see such a thread here.

Well said.

This is a great thread....but it seems right or wrong....any war in history has moments of "good news" or uplifting stories.

My trick...I dont watch/listen to any media.
I get all my news from you baboons. ;)

lol j/k

walford

01-18-2006, 11:53 AM

Baghdad radio lets foes talk things out (http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060118-121119-7890r.htm)
...It is a recent afternoon in Baghdad, and a Sunni and a Shi'ite sheik are chatting in the modest Baghdad studio of Radio Dijla.

Moufaq Al-Alani, the program's 63-year-old host, waits patiently for a caller to express his views on terrorism before politely suggesting that parents and teachers teach young people to respect all Iraqis.

Qasem Al-Joubari, the Sunni sheik, says imams should emphasize that killing civilians is never acceptable for a Muslim. His Shi'ite counterpart, Mahdi El-Mohamedoui, says violence reflects poorly on both Islam and Iraq in the eyes of the world...

"...Our country has been usurped by a 'with us or against us' attitude," says Mr. Al-Alani, a reporter for 44 years. "This station is giving all Iraqis a chance to express their viewpoints in a nonconfrontational manner. Our audience prefers this; they want peace."

Radio Dijla is Iraq's first independent radio station with an all-talk format, and it is a huge hit with the public.

Transmitting up to 90 miles from a two-story villa on a residential side street in western Baghdad, the station receives up to 1,000 telephone calls per day and gets more than 1 million hits per month on its Web site, www.radiodilja.com, said executive manager Kareem Al-Yousif...

...Omar Fadhia Al-Azaowey, Radio Dijla's programming director, said the reason for the station's success is its impartiality. Its broadcasters avoid using language that any group might find offensive, including such terms as "insurgent," "terrorist" or "occupier," and forbids callers to provoke anger...

"We give our listeners a topic to discuss, and then we let them call in and talk without interrupting them, as long as they're respectful."

...The station offers 23 programs per week, including a variety of political, religious, public-service, technology, legal, sports and entertainment shows, along with programs addressing women's issues and children's interests and a mix of traditional and modern music and hourly news updates.

shows, on which she fields callers' questions and complaints about issues ranging from public utilities to government policies.

On a recent Tuesday morning, Mrs. Rabiat spoke with Saleh Sarham, a Defense Ministry official, about a government initiative to allow officers under dictator Saddam Hussein's regime to rejoin the military before the end of the month.

"My husband was [a noncommissioned officer] for 20 years, and he can't get back in," said a caller identifying herself as Um Asalm (mother of Asalm). "He even paid a bribe."

"There is no need for bribes as long as he's less than 45 years old, and his rank was no higher than major," Mr. Sarham replied before announcing a telephone number that radio listeners could call for more information...

...Fatah Al-Shaikh, a National Assembly member loosely associated with the powerful Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, said Dijla Radio offers Iraqis a unique and valuable service.

"There are many politicians like me listening, because the station is independent and doesn't serve any party or group," Mr. Al-Shaikh said in a telephone interview.

Programs such as "Eve on the Air," which examines issues facing Iraqi women, and "The Referendum," a political round table, allow listeners to air their opinions and concerns without fear of judgment or reprisal. Perhaps even most significant, it gives Iraqis a forum for constructive dialogue.

"We like any kind of show that supports unity and brings people together," said Abu Mohamed, 36, a grocery clerk.

Mr. Al-Yousif, the station manager, said no one has threatened Radio Dijla staff members publicly since the station went on the air nearly 20 months ago.

"The only difficulty we sometimes experience is getting guests safely into the studio," he said...