Are Troops Using M-16 Magazines in M249?

[XASA]

I was reading an old article on the M249 and realized that you never see pictures of the weapon in action using the magazine option instead of the belt feed. The article said that when using magazines, the cyclic rate is 1,000 rpm, which causes failure to feed. Is this true? Are troops in the field using this option? If not, why?

[PvtPyle]

Yes it is true that the magazine causes jams, and no they dont use it because the magazine causes jams.

[digrar]

For emergency use only was how we considered it. I only ever saw one young bloke using it while moving around a safe area and he was quickly told to piss it off.

[ibstolidude]

It can cause an easier double feed, - dent the casings, really jamming them in there. It is also sloppy, shaving off brass an the ends of the magazine creating a load of debris in the chamber. But it does work if you can lay off going balls.

[Chops]

Yep tears the mags up pretty bad. Seen it done once in a demo.

I think the Mk46 dispensed with the capability didn't it?

rgds C

EDIT- Stoli- that avatar is disturbing...

[Daga]

FM 3-22.68

Primarily, ammunition is fed into the weapon from a
200-round ammunition box containing a disintegrating metallic split-link belt.As an emergency means of feeding, the M249 machine gun can use a 20- or 30-round M16 rifle magazine but increases the chance of stoppages.

[Royal]

We tried it on a range day (30 Rd Colt Mags only) for ****s and giggles. As the guys have said, chews the mags, chews the cases and jams like an L85A1 after a trip round the endurance course.

Never again.

[kayaker]

Rather feed a ball in manually if you run out of belt?

[Royal]

Rather feed a ball in manually if you run out of belt?

The word you're looking for is 'link'.

Fair point though.

Never again, unless we're out of link...

[XASA]

Thanks guys. The professional responses from those in the know is a great example of what makes mp.net unique.

One can't help, though, wondering why FN kept the option if there are so many problems with it. Surely, they must have known it didn't work when they initially tested the weapon. Another example of overengineering and not sticking to the K.I.S.S. principle.

[Geezah]

They offer a Beta C mag for the M249, surely if the 30rnd mag does not feed reliably how the hell do they expect the Beta C to work?

Beta C (http://www.betaco.com/products.asp)

[digrar]

I imagine if they designed the mag opening properly they could counter the feed problems that the m16 mags have.
It looks cumbersome though, more so than a canvas 100 or 200 round under slung link mag. The advantage being you don't need the link, but I reckon the weight hanging off the side, would counter that advantage.

[California Joe]

You guys know ****. I always use a mag when I play SOCOM Navy SEALs and it works fine.....


Someone had to say it.... p-)

[mudbunny]

totally agree with the board here, when i sucked up all the rounds out of the box I would just as soon pick up the rounds and throw them down range myself before I would load a mag. in.

[D.E. Watters]

They offer a Beta C mag for the M249, surely if the 30rnd mag does not feed reliably how the hell do they expect the Beta C to work?

From US Army testing, the C-Mag doesn't work well with M4 or the M249. The Army had hoped to use the C-Mags to make up for shortages in belted 5.56mm ammo during the early days of Op. Enduring Freedom. It didn't take very long for TACOM to start sending out Ground Precautionary Messages stating that the C-Mags should not be used outside of training.

[ibstolidude]

XASA, try this instead:

http://www.aresdefense.com/product.html



ares beltfeed upper - with an M16/4 series lower w/standard mag well.

vides are at the bottom of the page:
http://www.aresdefense.com/faqs.htm

[Hawkeye]

I see Belgian army using it all the time, I wonder why they would do that when they mis-feed ...

[Erik2a4]

M-249 with a 100 or 200rd "nut-sack" pretty much eliminates the need for mags...

...unless, as previously mentioned, you're out of link.

I hate seeing the frustration armorers go through after blanks have been fired using 30-rd mags throught the SAW.

Slightly less fun than an STD.

[kayaker]

Rather feed a ball in manually if you run out of belt?

The word you're looking for is 'link'.



appreciated. Always keen to learn

[SMGLee]

Love the Shrike, and been waiting for the past eight years since thye announced it. I think it is pretty much the Vaporware as it is for the time being. only a handfull of Shrike has been delivered. like less the five.

SAW has had problems with the M16 magazines and had even more problem with the Beta. Recently a SFG was successful in mating HK SA80A2 magazines withthe M249 with great success. the magazine option is a back up in case of......

I have shot and seen M249 shot and shot and shot with M16 mags. it worked pretty good but not combat reliable good.

The Mk46 did away with this feature.

[Former Gold Falcon]

Better to just shave the mag well off (maybe even save some weight) like the Mrk 46 and issue a sidearm to SAW gunners.

After having carried a SAW for a few years, I came away with the conclusion that unless F&N redesigned this "emergency" option; then it was unneeded bulk and weight. That's my opinion.


T.

[Michael RVR]

Apparently a few years back they redesigned the mags so that they would work better with them, only problem was that they increased the chances of stoppages if used with M-16/4's , so they were not adopted.

A Beta-C mag on a Minimi is a not a great idea IMHO, ok if you're out of link, but otherwise they're just something else that weighs more than the link they're replacing.

I dare say its harder to carry ammo around in C-Mags vs Link also. ;)

[PrincessRAR]

yeah some guys were strolling around timor with them in, it was only around the "safer" areas though - i wouldnt want to get into a contact if my minimi has a 30 round clip on rofl you want that **** pouring rounds down whilst the rest of the group moves up into all round.

[Nikitaras]

Not the recommended way to fire the SAW especially if you have link available. The trick to firing the SAW with a magazine in was to put pressure on the mag by pushing foward and down on it. I fired quite a few magazines through my mine without a single jam many times on ranges.

[Former Gold Falcon]

Not the recommended way to fire the SAW especially if you have link available. The trick to firing the SAW with a magazine in was to put pressure on the mag by pushing foward and down on it. I fired quite a few magazines through my mine without a single jam many times on ranges.

I tried that trick once, but damn it was a PITA to fire with my right arm crossed over the top!

see how long it takes anyone to figure out what I just said ;)


T.

[digrar]

Spastic handed southpaw? :P

[Royal]

Not the recommended way to fire the SAW especially if you have link available. The trick to firing the SAW with a magazine in was to put pressure on the mag by pushing foward and down on it. I fired quite a few magazines through my mine without a single jam many times on ranges.

Thanks for the tip! I'll try it next time I get the chance...

[PrincessRAR]

Not the recommended way to fire the SAW especially if you have link available. The trick to firing the SAW with a magazine in was to put pressure on the mag by pushing foward and down on it. I fired quite a few magazines through my mine without a single jam many times on ranges.

on the range being a key word - not to pull your statement down any !!

[Former Gold Falcon]

Spastic handed southpaw? :P

Maybe not spastic, but defenitely lefthanded.

T.

[Nikitaras]

Not the recommended way to fire the SAW especially if you have link available. The trick to firing the SAW with a magazine in was to put pressure on the mag by pushing foward and down on it. I fired quite a few magazines through my mine without a single jam many times on ranges.

on the range being a key word - not to pull your statement down any !!

That was the point. Screw using a mag in a hostile enviornment, unless of course thats all you have. Its just different to fart around using the mags on a range.

Just to add, I do believe the SAW I was issued in the mid 90's was somewhat of an anomaly. I rarely, and I really mean rarely ever had a jam with that sucker. It was kind of nice to have a weapon issued that wasn't a Jam-o-matic :D The pressure on the mag trick worked on different SAWs as well it wasn't exclusive to mine.

[Bugalugs]

yeah some guys were strolling around timor with them in, it was only around the "safer" areas though - i wouldnt want to get into a contact if my minimi has a 30 round clip on rofl you want that **** pouring rounds down whilst the rest of the group moves up into all round.

swear
bear

[Burncycle]

Get rid of that dead weight magazine feed option and save yourself a couple of kg :)

Until then, we must make weekly sacrifices to the magazine eating monster woot

[PrincessRAR]

roger that nikitaris ;)