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M1A2U2
07-28-2005, 11:05 AM
The World Workers Party is offiliated with the group ANSWER who sponsers all the anti war protests around the country. I am puzzled by these people and I have seen several on militaryphotos.



THE WWP: FROM KIM IL SUNG’S BIRTHDAY PARTY TO THE RUSSIAN "RED-BROWN ALLIANCE"

The Orwellian absurdity that is the WWP reaches its summit with the group's well-known love for that well-known bastion of human rights and free thought, North Korea. Longtime WWP leader Deirdre Griswold captured the sect's admiration for the world's last remaining Stalinist state when she wrote as follows in the April 20th, 2000 Workers World: "In the Democratic People's Republic of Korea -- the socialist north of the divided land -- no date is more important than April 15, the birthday of Kim Il Sung. . .this year as Koreans celebrate Kim Il Sung's birthday -- and in the U.S.-occupied south, where such actions must be taken in secret because of repressive 'national security' laws -- they will also be telling the world that they are proud of and confident in their new leader, Kim Jong Il [Kim Il Sung's son and heir -- KC], who is following in the socialist footsteps of Kim Il Sung." A frequent visitor to North Korea, Griswold regularly goes into fits of literary rapture when relating her experiences in the North. Her December 22nd, 1986 WW report on her visit to Pyongyang (entitled "A visit to People's Korea where there is housing for all") begins "What a success story!" She then describes a nation where there is "no homelessness, no hunger, no poverty." The fact that North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world and that North Korea's population faces the threat of famine on a regular basis has somehow escaped Griswold's notice.

Ever since its beginnings as the Global Class War tendency inside the SWP, Sam Marcy's clique has regularly singled out North Korea for special admiration. The WWP's direct "party to party" relations with the North, however, only began to blossom fully after the WWP started attacking Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. The WWP's big break came in May 1990, when the first official WWP delegation headed by Marcy visited North Korea "for 12 days in May" at the invitation of the Central Committee of the Workers Party of Korea. While in Pyongyang, the WWP delegates "had the great honor of meeting and exchanging views with Kim Il Sung." The June 7th, 1990 issue of WW even included a photo op of the WWP delegates with their North Korean friends, including Kim Il Sung, who stood in the center of the photo flanked by Marcy and Griswold.

In April 1992 another U.S. delegation led by Marcy that included Sue Bailey (a WWP'er who heads the "U.S. Out of South Korea Committee"), as well as delegates from the CPUSA, the SWP, and the American Democratic Lawyers Association, again visited North Korea to attend a "Joint Meeting of Parties, Governments, National and International Organizations" organized by CILRECO, an organization that "promotes solidarity with the Korean people." (As the official leader of the U.S. group, Marcy received the North Korean equivalent of a papal blessing.) The Americans, along with delegates from 130 other countries, traveled to the North "to attend mass public celebrations of the 80th birthday" of Kim Il Sung, according to a report in an April 1992 issue of WW by Sue Bailey and Key Martin datelined Pyongyang.

While in the North for Kim's birthday party, the WWP entered into discussions with other hardline Communist groups, including a Stalin-worshipping sect called the Russian Communist Workers Party (RCWP) (Rossiskaia Kommunisticheskaia Rabochaia Partiia, or RKRP), which emerged from the anti-Gorbachev, "anti-revisionist" Movement of Communist Initiative in November 1991. On September 3rd, 1992, WW ran an article by Viktor Tyulkin, the group's top leader and the Secretary of its Central Committee. The introduction to the article explained that Tyulkin and Marcy had first met in Pyongyang during the April festivities for Kim "and [had] discussed the political situation in the USSR and the U.S." They remained in contact, and on Marcy's 85th birthday Tyulkin sent him a "message of solidarity" from the RCWP that was reprinted in the October 17th, 1996 WW. Tyulkin's comrade Victor Anpilov from the Executive Committee of Working Russia also enclosed his own message of solidarity.

Although the RCWP doesn't receive much press coverage in WW, it seems clear that the WWP has a sympathetic view of its activities. In a January 13th, 2000 WW article on Russian politics, the RCWP was singled out for its leadership role both in the strike movement as well as inside the "Communist Workers of Russia" voting bloc. The RCWP "left" is also contrasted favorably to Gennadi Zyuganov's far larger KPRF. Workers World's reluctance to devote extensive press coverage to the RCWP, however, may stem from the fact that any overt alliance with the RCWP would be rather difficult for the WWP's more naive rank-and-file members to stomach, since the RCWP is a textbook example of a radical "left fascist" group.

The anti-globalization movement was recently confronted with the problem of the RCWP after it was learned that two RCWP members were officially invited to take part in the recent Genoa protests by the international association ATTAC (the Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions for the Aid of Citizens, which is best known for supporting the proposed "Tobin tax" on speculative transactions.) The leftist International Solidarity with Workers in Russia (ISWoR-SITR-MCPP) group immediately alerted other anti-globalization activists that the RCWP was an extremely racist and homophobic party whose members worship Stalin, campaign against black people in general and rap music in particular, issue material calling for homo******s to be jailed, and published a party document in 1997 that blamed Russia's economic crisis on "American imperialism and international Zionism." The group also attacked Russian President Vladimir Putin for being so close to "the Jews that he ignores true Russian 'patriots'." According to ISWoR, the RCWP could be best described as "a pseudo-Communist anti-Semitic organization." At the same time that the RCWP appeals to the far right, it maintains a pro-Stalin analysis of Russia that is almost identical to the one promoted by the WWP. According to the RCWP program, for example, "The RCWP completely rejects the revisionist, opportunist, traitorous line that was promoted and adhered to by the CPSU leadership from 1953-1991, which brought about the temporary collapse of the Soviet Union in a counter-revolution. The XX Congress of the CPSU (1956) was the breaking point in the history of our country and the communist movement."

Victor Anpilov, a former Soviet journalist who became co-secretary of the RCWP in 1992 (but who broke with Tyulkin in 1996-1997 over electoral strategy), also sent his greetings of solidarity to Marcy on his 85th birthday in 1996. However, if anything Anpilov is even further to the right than Tyulkin. After leaving the RCWP, he first entered into an alliance with the notorious Eduard Limonov and his Natsionalno-Bolshevistskaia Partiia (National Bolshevik Party). Today, Anpilov is promoting a new party, the CPSU Lenin-Stalin that backs Stalin's grandson as Russia's new leader.

Kevin Coogan is the author of a crucially important study on the postwar right, Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International (New York: Autonomedia, 1999), as well as a regular contributor to Hit List. Among other things, he wrote "How 'Black' is Black Metal? Michael Moynihan, Lords of Chaos, and the 'Countercultural Fascist' Underground," an article which appeared in Hit List 1:1 (February-March 1999), pp. 32-49.
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:ZejSRGuuGacJ:slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D01/12/03/229254+wwp+kim+il&hl=en

Kaapeli
07-28-2005, 11:38 AM
The World Workers Party is offiliated with the group ANSWER who sponsers all the anti war protests around the country. I am puzzled by these people and I have seen several on militaryphotos.

I believe The World Workers Party is a communist party. Not liberal.
Liberalism is strictly against collectivist ideologies like communism.

ComradeStalin
07-28-2005, 12:23 PM
The World Workers Party is offiliated with the group ANSWER who sponsers all the anti war protests around the country. I am puzzled by these people and I have seen several on militaryphotos.

I believe The World Workers Party is a communist party. Not liberal.
Liberalism is strictly against collectivist ideologies like communism.

true dat

M1A2U2
07-28-2005, 12:32 PM
Sorry i meant left winged.

Midtown
07-28-2005, 12:58 PM
ill kill those whores.
Im drunk.

usafbalad
07-28-2005, 01:52 PM
Midtown: Im drunk.

And we should give a **** because.....?

Avary
07-28-2005, 02:28 PM
M1A2U2, why are you stuck up on the DPRK? Is there a reason?

M1A2U2
07-28-2005, 02:33 PM
Cuz i loathe how the country treats people.

Avary
07-28-2005, 02:38 PM
And how do they treat people?

Miles.
07-28-2005, 03:29 PM
And how do they treat people?

You really support Kim Jong IL? I always thought you were joking with this North Korean propaganda...

Avary
07-28-2005, 03:42 PM
I'm just asking. I want to know.

dangerclose
07-28-2005, 04:01 PM
And how do they treat people?

Their Dear Leader treats his people very well. They get enough to eat, and are free to come and go as they please ... not that anyone would want to leave that socialist paradise.

Avary
07-28-2005, 04:06 PM
And how do they treat people?

Their Dear Leader treats his people very well. They get enough to eat, and are free to come and go as they please ... not that anyone would want to leave that socialist paradise.
Exactly what the Songun Blog says : Songun Mail : Victim Of US Imperialist Propaganda Lies Writes Us (http://songun-blog.blogspot.com/2005/07/songun-mail-victim-of-us-imperialist.html)

jmatucd
07-28-2005, 04:19 PM
... concentration camps, mass starvation, backward living conditions, a god-like dictatorship.... pretty much everything that can go wrong in the DPRK has

... and these clowns are getting nukes?
oh, thats a great idea

Avary
07-28-2005, 04:35 PM
That's if you believe US media.

Geezah
07-28-2005, 04:44 PM
That's if you believe US media.

So instead we should believe North Korean Propoganda?

jmatucd
07-28-2005, 04:46 PM
I believe the defectors and not you.

I remember reading a 70 page + account of a defector posted on the house of representatives website part of some testimony for a committee. The account was harrowing. I deal with Holocaust deniers, deniers of the Soviet gulags, and today deniers of the North Korean Gulags all the time. No big deal. Keep denying.

DPGLAW
07-28-2005, 05:03 PM
That's if you believe US media.

U are a fool...I really cant think of much else to say after reading your posts on this thread, well its either that, or you are like 10 years old and jsut dont know any better....

I cant see how in Gods name you could have any support, actually anything other than hatred and contempt for kim jong fool, and the DPRK in general. To make a statement like those you ahve, specifically..."well, thats if you beleive the US media", jsut shows you are indeed braindead and they need to hook your brain back up to the life support machines as it is obviously running out of O2....None of your statement reflect any logic, realistic thought process, nor even a sintilla of intelligence. I suggest thinking more, finding real sources for your info. (as opposed to crap like the article on here and other crap from Kim jong fools outh) before you spout off retarded posts. I am just thankful you are NOT American.

Regards,
Daniel

Avary
07-28-2005, 05:29 PM
Aren't you over reacting a bit given the empirical evidence to the contrary?

I mean, look at it this way, from a progressive liberal's viewpoint:

They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

Mr Gently Benevolent
07-28-2005, 05:45 PM
The World Workers Party is offiliated with the group ANSWER who sponsers all the anti war protests around the country. I am puzzled by these people and I have seen several on militaryphotos.I dunno M1A2U2 I have never really encountered the hard left or right in this forum. :)

Laworkerbee
07-28-2005, 06:04 PM
Thanks for messing up my belief in Santa you bastard Avary! :roll:

M1A2U2
07-31-2005, 11:54 AM
how did they lie about disneyland?

USMC-Congbuster
07-31-2005, 02:23 PM
They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

whiskey tango foxtrot over

BlackFlag
07-31-2005, 03:57 PM
Aren't you over reacting a bit given the empirical evidence to the contrary?

I mean, look at it this way, from a progressive liberal's viewpoint:

They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

::cough troll cough::

Nizark
07-31-2005, 04:19 PM
The World Workers Party is offiliated with the group ANSWER who sponsers all the anti war protests around the country. I am puzzled by these people and I have seen several on militaryphotos.I dunno M1A2U2 I have never really encountered the hard left or right in this forum. :)

come on, if you have to compare all that groups that are Affiliated with each other, then at some crossroads you could say the republican party is connected with that abortion clinic bomber simply because some little shred within both of the group's ideology touches.

And someone has never encountered the hard right on this forum? Christ, look at usa320. That focker just wants to bomb everything that disagrees with a US policy.

MaDuce
07-31-2005, 07:49 PM
All of you are ignorant of the facts. North Korea is a land of milk and honey guided by the worlds most enlighted ruler. The people are well fed and happy in there utopian workers paradise. The combined efforts of the Illumanati and the Zionist media would have you think other wise but you must ignore this propaganda. And if America or the europeans attack they will be quickly defeated by the invincible army of North Korea.

California Joe
07-31-2005, 08:01 PM
Kim is a little crackhead asian Roy Orbison looking **** that's obsessed with Elvis movies, John Wayne westerns and tall blond Swedish whores while he starves his own people. It's good to be the King. I agree with him on 2 of these obsessions and I don't dig Elvis. This has nothing to do with liberals in America you frigging idiot. Next time you start a thread like this entitle it "Trekkies that believe they are Klingons love Kim Jong Il."

jmatucd
07-31-2005, 08:10 PM
U are a fool...I really cant think of much else to say after reading your posts on this thread, well its either that, or you are like 10 years old and jsut dont know any better....

enough with the name calling


They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

enough with the insanity

pathfinder82
07-31-2005, 08:13 PM
Kim is a little crackhead asian Roy Orbison looking **** that's obsessed with Elvis movies, John Wayne westerns and tall blond Swedish whores while he starves his own people. It's good to be the King. I agree with him on 2 of these obsessions and I don't dig Elvis. This has nothing to do with liberals in America you frigging idiot. Next time you start a thread like this entitle it "Trekkies that believe they are Klingons love Kim Jong Il."


Asian Roy Orbison rofl I think I have been thinking that subconsciously.

DPGLAW
07-31-2005, 08:23 PM
Aren't you over reacting a bit given the empirical evidence to the contrary?

I mean, look at it this way, from a progressive liberal's viewpoint:

They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

Either retarded, or braindead, which is it please?

toad
07-31-2005, 10:08 PM
I honestly had no idea 'progressive liberals' were so insipid... :(

Quite a jejune reflection on life.

packetloss
07-31-2005, 10:21 PM
U are a fool...I really cant think of much else to say after reading your posts on this thread, well its either that, or you are like 10 years old and jsut dont know any better....

enough with the name calling


They lied to us about Iraq and the WMD. They lied about Iran, Cuba, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, 9/11, Gulf War I, Pearl Harbour, Disneyland, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Why should we suddenly trust them about North Korea?

enough with the insanity

While going to the extreme - That man does have a point. Sure, the north korean propaganda, is just that. And that its not perfect over there. But isnt it a duty as a us citizen to ask questions, and not just buy the party line verbatim? Sure, a defectors account of the country hes running away from, is going to be poor. But, have you seen some of the things people say about their own countries? Again, im not saying that its not bad there, and im not saying that disneyland is auchwitz-west - But there has to be a thin middle ground somewhere that the truth lies in - And everyone adds their own spin to it, for their own benefit.

Miles.
07-31-2005, 11:40 PM
How can any rational, caring person, OF ANY BACKGROUND, dispute that North Korea is going down the ****ter because of Communist dictatorship?

The folks over there are starving, while Mr. Il runs up an astronomical Cognac bill.

They're totally f-cked. No question.

To me, the only debate is what the foxtrot to do...

jmatucd
07-31-2005, 11:54 PM
While I respect others view points, I do so only as they are consistent with the facts. Granted, we do not and cannot know the facts of anything for certain (yes, how silly). However, at times some things are so clearly wrong that they need to be corrected and those spouting the nonsense must be chastised.

Now where's that yardstick! ;-)

packetloss
08-01-2005, 12:42 AM
While I respect others view points, I do so only as they are consistent with the facts. Granted, we do not and cannot know the facts of anything for certain (yes, how silly). However, at times some things are so clearly wrong that they need to be corrected and those spouting the nonsense must be chastised.

Now where's that yardstick! ;-)


I bow to your diplomatic eloquence :)

Avary
08-01-2005, 01:03 AM
Yes, but what are the facts exactly?

From our viewpoint North Korea is one of -if not the- most cruel dictatorships ever.

Our mode of living has led us to see things in a certain perspective and as humans, we tend to believe that all men are alike.

This could be true but it could just as easily not hold water at all.

For example, while our western media portrays Nork Korea as a gloomy moonscape whose citizenry are mindless faceless comunist robot drones dying of starvation and political purges, North Korean media paints a vibrantely colorful picture of joy and hope with people living wonderful satisfying fulfilling lives, knowing nothing but bliss and happiness.

If you were to go to Pyongyang and ask its citizens on the street if they live under a cruel dictatorship they would think you have gone totally insane like Colonel Walter E. Kurtz.

You don't understand this because, as you are not a nuanced sophisticated educated progressive liberal, you do not show moral relativism, but rather you deal in absolute, casting things as right or wrong depending on the situation.

Moral relativism implies that all cultures, religious beliefs, and political systems are equal, only different in minute unimportant details. So to a progressive liberal, the North Korean regime is not "evil", only different and in certain regards superior to US democracy.

North Korea boasts of free universal health care, free education from kindergarden to college, a classless society, and gender equality (just like Cuba) that makes US liberals envious because the US governement does not produce these wonderful miracles of socialism. That North Korea suffers from famine, energy shortage, and political oppression of dissenters is, though a drawback, not as important as the globaly positive record of the regime.

Besides, what troubles the DPRK may be experiencing is all the doing of the Bush White House, the CIA, the Zionists and the Illuminati so you can't really blame Kim Jong Il, because he only does what he has to do to defend his country and regime, the same way Fidel Castro of Cuba of Saddam Hussein of Iraq.

So unlike conservatives, the progressive liberal understands this and therefore see the iniquity of the Bush White House nefarious plotting against the Korean people. And from there move into their defense just like Jane Fonda during the Vietnam War, or Noam Chomsky with the Pol Pot Khmer Rouges of Cambodia.

To the progressive liberal whenever a Republican White House does anything, no matter what it is, it's a reflex to jump to the rescue of the other side, wether it be Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez, Pol Pot, or Kim Jong Il.

M1A2U2
08-01-2005, 01:20 AM
Avary, according to your logic we dont know if we know anything so we should all just stop thinking and there are no such thing as facts. Well i believe you just listed a bunch of facts about North Korean society and their helth care etc. How do we know all that isnt bull****? Do you think the millions of North Koreans imprisoned in gulags without food would agree with you? And another question...what are all the dead bodies floating in rivers from?

M1A2U2
08-01-2005, 01:21 AM
Moral relativism implies that all cultures, religious beliefs, and political systems are equal, only different in minute unimportant details. So to a progressive liberal, the North Korean regime is not "evil", only different and in certain regards superior to US democracy.

if this is true why do so many educated progressive liberals believe the US is "evil"?

Kilgor
08-01-2005, 01:26 AM
If they cant even feed their people, universal healthcare is going to be kinda of a joke isnt it. :roll:

And as for the education system, the only reason communist governments care about that is that indoctrination must start early and continue well into adulthood.

dacanadianbomb
08-01-2005, 01:44 AM
If all this communism stuff is about equality and everyone being the same, why isnt Kim il starving ?


Everytime I see him on tv I cant help but laugh at the stupid wanker and the crap he talks.If he wasnt such a blatant murderer.

LOl the north koreans are happy.
If everthing was so bloody great, why are there defectors?
Because people who are free to leave the country and live in bliss and happines arent usually called defectors when they choose to go live in another country.

Healthcare, yeah rot in this gulag here , it'll do you the world of good !

I always wondered why Avary doesnt leave for North Korea right away, since you seem to be so convinced of the greatness of N.Korea, they will definately welcome you with open arms.

Avary
08-01-2005, 02:41 AM
Moral relativism implies that all cultures, religious beliefs, and political systems are equal, only different in minute unimportant details. So to a progressive liberal, the North Korean regime is not "evil", only different and in certain regards superior to US democracy.

if this is true why do so many educated progressive liberals believe the US is "evil"?
Of course to a progressive liberal there is no such thing as "evil" since "reality" is only relative according to one's belief, except in the case of the US. Then it is evil beyond all human abilities to calculate as the US is the most obnoxiously evil thing to have ever existed in the Universe and Belgium.

Of course if the US were a socialist worker's collectivist paradise it would not be evil but since it is a capitalist individualist society it is profoundly evil.

Avary
08-01-2005, 02:44 AM
Avary, according to your logic we dont know if we know anything so we should all just stop thinking and there are no such thing as facts.
My friend you just clearly summed up the first basic tenet of progressive liberal thinking.

Next, you'll have to work on your cognitive dissonance.

MaDuce
08-01-2005, 08:18 AM
Sounds like a troll to me.

Atlantic Friend
08-01-2005, 08:43 AM
That's if you believe US media.

We could also believe the defectors, the refugees that manage to reach South Korea by fleeing on fishing boats, and even the Westerners who travel to North Korea : the country is run by a tinpot megalomaniac whose grip on reality seems to be rather weak whenever the issue is his supposed greatness.

Seriously, it's like 1984, man. They now claim that Kim il Sung (the father, since NK is one of these great People's Republic where the power is hereditary) invented its great self-sufficiency policy, thye Ju-Che, when he was 13, and that at the same time he was heroically fighting the Japanese occupation.

For the French-readers among you, Canadian cartoonist Guy Delisle drew "Pyongyang", a comic novel about his staying in NK's capital which I really recommend. You'll be knocked flat by what he saw and heard there, and there are very sinister undertones, like the total absence of handicapped people in the streets of the capital. His guides quietly explained that there were NO handicapped people in NK because the Koreans were a "homogenous race".

Other things are just downright crazy, like all the songs praising Kim Jong Il broadcast by the radio station, the people spending their week-ends painting stones in white along the motorways to "embellish the country", the propaganda teams trying to encourage construction buildings by even more songs praising the Dear Leader, etc.

M1A2U2
08-01-2005, 10:14 AM
i recommend reading The Aquariums of Pyongyang: Ten Years in the North Korean Gulag. It is the first survivior to escape the North Korean Gulag system and leave the country and tell about it. Preisidetn Bush even met with the guy and loved his book so much that he recommended his entire cabinet read it.

Question: If progressive liberals like countries like North Korea and Cambodia, why dont they leave the US and go there? Dont you think its a little hypocritical to condemn a country then just reep the benefits it produces?

jmatucd
08-01-2005, 10:51 AM
You don't understand this because, as you are not a nuanced sophisticated educated progressive liberal, you do not show moral relativism, but rather you deal in absolute, casting things as right or wrong depending on the situation.


Are you a parody of something?


Moral relativism implies that all cultures, religious beliefs, and political systems are equal, only different in minute unimportant details. So to a progressive liberal, the North Korean regime is not "evil", only different and in certain regards superior to US democracy.

Perhaps a North Korean political theorist living in exile?


North Korea boasts of free universal health care, free education from kindergarden to college, a classless society, and gender equality (just like Cuba) that makes US liberals envious because the US governement does not produce these wonderful miracles of socialism. That North Korea suffers from famine, energy shortage, and political oppression of dissenters is, though a drawback, not as important as the globaly positive record of the regime.

Oh, no. You're just insane.

M1A2U2
08-02-2005, 10:23 AM
Avary, Question: If progressive liberals like countries like North Korea and Cambodia, why dont they leave the US and go there? Dont you think its a little hypocritical to condemn a country then just reep the benefits it produces?