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fantassin
01-14-2004, 01:03 PM
Son of a sub gives SBS frogmen new weapon
Peter Almond, Sunday Times



A NUCLEAR submarine has been equipped with a specially designed hangar to allow divers from the Special Boat Service (SBS) to mount underwater operations against terrorists.
Frogmen will begin operating over the next few weeks from the pressurised capsule fitted to the hull of HMS Spartan, a nuclear-powered hunter-killer vessel.



The hangar, installed at Rosyth dockyard in Scotland last year, will allow a dozen or more SBS troopers to swim undetected from Spartan while it remains underwater and travel many miles to their objectives using one of three new mini-submarines, called swimmer delivery vehicles (SDVs), acquired from the Americans.

At present submarines have to surface quietly miles offshore to enable special forces to deploy collapsible kayaks and fast rigid raider boats for a night dash to the coast, or for frogmen to swim slowly but silently underwater.

“The hangar effectively gives the SBS their own little long-range submarine,” said one navy source.

“There’s much less chance of being detected if you don’t have to surface. They can store much larger equipment on the deck instead of having to squeeze it through a hatchway in the boat’s hull, and they can operate there more comfortably out of the way of the crew. The Americans have been doing this for years. We’re now catching up.”

The hangar, nicknamed Project Alamanda, has been allowed to continue even as the navy prepares to implement the government’s defence cuts, particularly in destroyers. The hangar project has survived because of the emphasis of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) on rapid reaction forces equipped to take on terrorists and enemies in coastal areas.

It is detailed in the navy’s official annual review, Broadsheet, which states: “A dry hangar will be fitted to HMS Spartan to provide a covert projection and insertion capability for swimmers and swimmer delivery vehicles.”

The MoD does not disclose information about the hangars, but they are believed to be similar to the “dry deck shelters” used on several American submarines.

Each measures about 9ft wide by 9ft high and 40ft long and has three compartments, one for the SDV, kayaks, rigid raiders and troopers, another to allow passage into the main submarine and a forward compartment for decompression and treatment of divers.

It is not known if the British hangar is detachable and able to be flown out in an emergency to Spartan — as the Americans can do — or if the vessel will regularly sail from its home port of Faslane carrying the facility piggyback on its deck.

The navy’s first three SDVs were obtained from America in 1999. They are 22ft long and have battery-powered engines. A pilot, navigator and up to four SBS men “ride” the craft, wearing breathing apparatus.

The navy has had experience of such vessels since the second world war, when two-man craft — called chariots — sneaked through heavy defences to mine enemy ships at anchor.

Lord Ashdown, the Liberal Democrat peer and a former Royal Marine, was a test driver for an early form of SDV developed from a torpedo, but the Americans have gone much further than the submersible mini-tugs made popular by the underwater battle scene in the James Bond movie Thunderball.

Spartan, commissioned in 1979, is due to be retired in 2006, but navy sources said it has just had a refit. With Astute, its replacement, years behind schedule in construction, it may continue as the main SBS submarine. The Astute class, three of which are on order, is designed to accommodate dry hangars from the start.

mustamato
01-14-2004, 01:08 PM
[b]A NUCLEAR submarine has been equipped with a specially designed hangar to allow divers from the Special Boat Service (SBS) to mount underwater operations against terrorists..

Wooot rofl

This terrorist paranoia is beginning to be just too much. Didn´t know that Al-Qaida had secret bases on some island that SBS could blow up in the best James Bond-style.

Roger Rabbit
01-14-2004, 01:11 PM
Yeah thats mature. Ever heard of these ships that terrorists are using? You know the ones they smuggle drugs and arms with and other naughty bits and pieces. What about an operation on the coast? against a port?

And in the future it might not be just terrorists that the SBS are fighting, you prepare for the worst but hope it never happens.

mustamato
01-14-2004, 01:32 PM
Yeah thats mature. Ever heard of these ships that terrorists are using? You know the ones they smuggle drugs and arms with and other naughty bits and pieces. What about an operation on the coast? against a port?

And in the future it might not be just terrorists that the SBS are fighting, you prepare for the worst but hope it never happens.

Well actually I don´t think for a second that this "terrorist"-issue is the only, or even the main reason to why SBS wants these new toys. But saying the word "terrorist" sure does give more and immediate funding from Blair and his friends than saying "eeerh... maybe some day Russia will be mighty again, we need... eerh to prepare". And if US decides to attack Iran then Britain will be there with them, and then these new gadgets could be usefull.

Roger Rabbit
01-14-2004, 03:23 PM
Don't worry, i'm sure Tony will find away to cut even more money from the Military. Tony and his cronies may say they act tough on terrorism but they act tougher on the Armed Forces budget.

usa320
01-14-2004, 03:32 PM
THe use isnt for direct action against terrorist folks. Its merely another means of insertion. IN other words, the SBS ride in the sub. It pulls quietly into a port at night. The SBS swims ashore. The sub sails away.

It just gives them a silent, long range and quick way of infiltrating enemy territory. I believe the US already has subs for this purpose.

fantassin
01-14-2004, 04:20 PM
[/quote]Don't worry, i'm sure Tony will find away to cut even more money from the Military[quote]

January 14, 2004

BAE says warship building likely to escape big cuts
By Russell Hotten
The Times


BAE Systems, Europe’s biggest defence firm, yesterday said it believed Britain’s multi-billion pound warship building programme would largely escape proposed defence cuts, paving the way for a big increase in its workforce.



Vic Emery, who heads BAE’s naval ships division, said that the company was working on proposals to build ten Type-45 destroyers rather than the 12 originally proposed by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

But there had been speculation that the MoD would reduce the number of Type-45s to eight or less, following a budget review last year. The MoD is expected to announce the number within weeks — a decision that is crucial for BAE’s share price, as well as jobs at the company.

News that the MoD may not make as big a cut as feared will also be good for the VT group, the southcoast ship builder working with BAE.

Mr Emery declined to say if he had been given an early warning of the size of the cuts. “We believe that the thinking (at the MoD) is for ten Type-45s, and our business modelling is for ten ships,” he said.

BAE is currently building three Type-45s, and is almost certain to get final approval for another three, a contract worth about £3billion in total. The company employs 2,530 people at its two shipyards in Scotland.

Mr Emery estimates that work on an additional four Type-45s, plus successful bids for export orders currently under competition, could see the shipyard workforce increase by about 1,300 over the next few years.

Meanwhile, reports that Sir John Parker, chairman of National Grid Transco, would be the new chairman of BAE looked increasingly wide of the mark last night.

BAE sources said that it had not drawn up a shortlist of candidates to replace Sir Richard Evans. Sources close to Sir John said he has no plans to resign from National Grid Transco.

Under the Higgs rules on corporate governance, Sir John would not be able to do both jobs.

BAE insisted that Sir John was “just another one of several names” to be linked with the job. “I have no reason to believe that his name should be taken any more seriously than all the others being mentioned,” the source said.

Royal
01-15-2004, 09:51 AM
Well actually I don´t think for a second that this "terrorist"-issue is the only, or even the main reason to why SBS wants these new toys. But saying the word "terrorist" sure does give more and immediate funding from Blair and his friends than saying "eeerh... maybe some day Russia will be mighty again, we need... eerh to prepare".

The SF Vote (budget) as with the US is effectively bottomless. The actual ammounts are not disclosed in official MoD figures. If DSF or his staff can justify it, they get it.

Haiw
01-15-2004, 04:08 PM
Don't the US SEALs have something like this for quite some time already?

TriggerPuller
01-15-2004, 04:56 PM
Don't the US SEALs have something like this for quite some time already?They have the new ASDS. My boss and two guys on my TEAM were SDV guys. The capabilities of the new vessel are classified. The SBS fellas are as hard as woodpeckers lips I respect them immensly!!

TP

Loco
01-15-2004, 05:41 PM
It reminds something like tactics used by italian frogmen in IIWW in Egypt, they entered in Alexandría port rinding some kind of mini-submarine, and this was 60 years ago!