An Afternoon w/the SIG rep

[Laconian]

Friday afternoon I spent some time with the SIG rep. He brought a bunch of stuff for us to check out/shoot/play with. Some of the stuff I hadn't seen before, thought I'd give a list & my impressions:

P226R DAK 9mm - Supposedly the gun the SEALs are going to. Great trigger, a pleasure to shoot

P226R ST .357 SIG - My first time shooting the .357 SIG. Sweet weapon, not really all that much felt recoil difference from the .40 S&W

P239 .357 SIG - Nice little pocket rocket. A little more felt recoil than in the P226, but not too hot too handle.

P229R DAK .40 S&W - This is the gun ordered under the DHS contract, plus the Coast Guard, plus the Postal Service. A very nice duty gun, great trigger, a pleasure to shoot.

P2022 .40S&W - My first time shooting the SIG Tupperware gun. Nice, but nothing I'd run out & buy.

Mosquito .22LR - The DA trigger pull SUCKED. Even the rep said its the only gun designed to improve grip strength while shooting. Easily a 12+ DA trigger. The SA trigger was nice, but there are a lot better .22s out there.

P220 .45ACP - The one there had a laser sight in the grip panels, my first time shooting a HG with 'em. Pretty cool. Other folks commented about the long DA trigger, but I liked the gun. They plan a DAK P220 for release in a month or two.

GSR Stainless .45ACP - A SIG designed 1911! Tweaked by Wayne Novack. Nice gun! Crisp trigger, rail system sweet. Production will slow though so SIG can concentrate on the new 65,000 unit contract.

551-2P .223 - I've shot older ones but this was real nice. Apparently, the FBI & DEA just signed contracts for them. On full auto, it just stayed solid, snap head shots with the iron sights were easy.

552-2PR .223 - My 1st time with this shorty. Heavier than the M4, this one had the rail, vert fore grip and some optics/lights. Real nice, very fast & simple reloads. Again the weight made controlling full auto bursts easy. I wouldn't mind having it for limited use (running from the van to the door), but to lug it all day, even slung would seem a bit heavy in my opinion.

Sorry, no pictures. All the shooters were cops/operators and I don't know how to blank faces and S/Ns.

Overall not a bad Federal Friday - a bunch of guns w/free ammo to shoot for hours. Sometimes its a sin that I get paid to do this job.

[SMGLee]

Damn it, I want pictures.. :D

[Kampfhamster]

551-2P .223 - I've shot older ones but this was real nice. Apparently, the FBI & DEA just signed contracts for them. On full auto, it just stayed solid, snap head shots with the iron sights were easy.

552-2PR .223 - My 1st time with this shorty. Heavier than the M4, this one had the rail, vert fore grip and some optics/lights. Real nice, very fast & simple reloads. Again the weight made controlling full auto bursts easy. I wouldn't mind having it for limited use (running from the van to the door), but to lug it all day, even slung would seem a bit heavy in my opinion.

Sorry, no pictures. All the shooters were cops/operators and I don't know how to blank faces and S/Ns.

Overall not a bad Federal Friday - a bunch of guns w/free ammo to shoot for hours. Sometimes its a sin that I get paid to do this job.


Pfff, what are you? A sissy? ;)
Before the Swiss Army got the SIG 550 (4,1kg) we had the SIG 510 aka Stgw57, which is 5.9 kg unloaded. Talk about heavy :D

[Laconian]

kampfhamster wrote:

Pfff, what are you? A sissy? Wink
Before the Swiss Army got the SIG 550 (4,1kg) we had the SIG 510 aka Stgw57, which is 5.9 kg unloaded. Talk about heavy Very Happy

Nah, but given the choice of humping a heavier rifle or a lighter one that I have just as much confidence in, I go lighter. IMHO, a similiarly equipped M4 is a little lighter than the SIG, so it wouldn't feel as heavy.

[fred_engles]

IMHO, a similiarly equipped M4 is a little lighter than the SIG, so it wouldn't feel as heavy.I'm sorry, but I just find that sentence funny.

[Freibier]

SIG rifles are nice but I don't like that the barrel isn't freefloating

[Jippo]

It is impossible to make free floating barrel with gas piston anyway. All that matters is accuracy, and Sig's do have that.


-jippo

[Freibier]

It is impossible to make free floating barrel with gas piston anyway. All that matters is accuracy, and Sig's do have that.


-jippo
G36 and SL8 barrels are free floating and have a gas piston so it can be done.
I just experienced when shooting SIGs with a sling that the point of impact differs depending how strong you pull the sling.
This is neglible for a military rifle but for target shooting you have to be very concentrated, especially in a competition.

[Jippo]

It is impossible to make free floating barrel with gas piston anyway. All that matters is accuracy, and Sig's do have that.


-jippo
G36 and SL8 barrels are free floating and have a gas piston so it can be done.
I just experienced when shooting SIGs with a sling that the point of impact differs depending how strong you pull the sling.
This is neglible for a military rifle but for target shooting you have to be very concentrated, especially in a competition.

I do not consider neither weapon to have free floating barrel, as the defination I understand being free floating is that the barrel doesn't touch anything else than the receiver where it is attached to the rest of the weapon. And in G36 there still is the piston assembly above the barrel.

About the sling: IMHO they shouldn't be used for support on weapons where they may interfere like Sig and Valmet assault rifles. In any case the sling is not very useful tool in any shooting that involves moving about (like the shooting in combat). And shooting from ****e position at least with these two mentioned is done from magazine rest, making the sling not needed.


-jippo

[Apogee]

I'm jelous. Sounds like a fun afternoon to me

[juju]

Are you sure about a P2022 in 40 sw ?
The Sig SP2022 is the pistol which was issued in France for police, gendarmerie, customs and penitenciary administration.
This is a 9mm pistols SA/DA.
267.000 pistols ordered :D

[Freibier]

That's Sig Sauers latest platic pistol, the P250:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4962/b4c1d264525xk.jpg
rather small and 15 round mag in 9mm

[Laconian]

Are you sure about a P2022 in 40 sw ?
The Sig SP2022 is the pistol which was issued in France for police, gendarmerie, customs and penitenciary administration.
This is a 9mm pistols SA/DA.
267.000 pistols ordered :D

It comes in 9mm & .40 S&W (maybe even .357 SIG) - I don't have the catalogue in front of me - but the gun he brought to shoot was in .40 S&W

[rob]

Are you sure about a P2022 in 40 sw ?
The Sig SP2022 is the pistol which was issued in France for police, gendarmerie, customs and penitenciary administration.
This is a 9mm pistols SA/DA.
267.000 pistols ordered :D

the us army also issued 5,000 p2022 pistols.

the french ordered 270,000(as you said) of them for the ministry of the interior which is the single largest contract for handguns since WWII.

[D.E. Watters]

the us army also issued 5,000 p2022 pistols.


More precisely, TACOM bought 5,000 P2022 at the same time they bought 5,000 Ruger P95. TACOM buys weapons for more than just the US Army; they also handle Foreign Military Sales. For example, the recent purchase of M60E4 was for the Columbian Army.

[rob]

the us army also issued 5,000 p2022 pistols.


More precisely, TACOM bought 5,000 P2022 at the same time they bought 5,000 Ruger P95. TACOM buys weapons for more than just the US Army; they also handle Foreign Military Sales. For example, the recent purchase of M60E4 was for the Columbian Army.

so who actually got the pistols?

[D.E. Watters]

the us army also issued 5,000 p2022 pistols.


More precisely, TACOM bought 5,000 P2022 at the same time they bought 5,000 Ruger P95. TACOM buys weapons for more than just the US Army; they also handle Foreign Military Sales. For example, the recent purchase of M60E4 was for the Columbian Army.

so who actually got the pistols?

Hard to say. Some speculate that they went to DOD Police. Others suggest that they went to Iraqi forces.

I suspect, but cannot prove, these purchases are related to a RFP from TACOM posted early in December 2004. Less than a week was given for replies. Selected parts of the solicitation are as follows:



Description of Requirement: 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols with 2 each High Capacity Military/Law Enforcement (LE) Magazines per Weapon for Standard NATO 9 mm (9 X 19 mm) Caliber.

All proposed pistols must contain the following salient features:

9 X 19 mm (NATO) Caliber
2 ea. 15 round Military/Law Enforcement (LE) High Capacity Magazines per Pistol
Length: 7" - 8"
Weight: 28 - 35 oz
Single/Double Action
Finish: Gray/Black/Blue Flat Non-Reflective
Manual Decock/Safety Capable.

ISO9001-2000 is a requirement for all offerors. Offerors must submit with its proposal a statement certifying that any and all proffered guns were manufactured or will be manufactured in a facility with an ISO9001-2000 quality system.

Offerors may propose on all or part of this total requirement; however offerors proposing less than the total requirement of 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols must propose quantity ranges in increments of 100 each with a price corresponding to each range. NOTE: The minimum quantity an offeror may propose for delivery is 100 each.

One or multiple awards may result from this solicitation.

Requirements call for a Certificate of Conformance (COC), Acceptance at Origin and F.O.B. Destination. Concerning transportation, offerors should include in their proposal a price for shipment to two possible destinations. The first price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped F.O.B. Destination to:

XR WOL7 Anniston Munitions Center
Trans Officer
7 Frankford Ave., BLDG 380
Anniston, AL 36201-4199.

The second price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped directly to Baghdad International Airport, Baghdad, Iraq.


Note that between the Rugers and the SIGs, this adds up to the requested 10,000 pistols. Given the speed in which the bids were solicited and the contracts awarded (less than a month), the weapons could not possibly be intended for US troops.