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roland
08-01-2005, 04:32 PM
France ejects 12 Islamic 'preachers of hate'
By Colin Randall in Paris
(Filed: 30/07/2005)

The gulf between British and French treatment of preachers of hatred and violence was thrown sharply into focus yesterday when France announced the summary expulsion of a dozen Islamists between now and the end of August.

A tough new anti-terrorism package was unveiled by Nicolas Sarkozy, the interior minister and a popular centre-Right politician.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/30/ncleric30.jpg
Nicolas Sarkozy: 'We have to act against radical preachers'

His proposals reflect French determination to act swiftly against extremists in defiance of the human rights lobby, which is noticeably less vocal in France than in Britain.

Imams and their followers who fuel anti-western feeling among impressionable young French Muslims will be rounded up and returned to their countries of origin, most commonly in France's case to its former north African colonies.

Mr Sarkozy also revealed that as many as 12 French mosques associated with provocative anti-western preaching were under surveillance. Imams indulging in inflammatory rhetoric will be expelled even if their religious status is recognised by mainstream Muslim bodies.

Those who have assumed French citizenship will not be protected from deportation. Mr Sarkozy said he will reactivate measures, "already available in our penal code but simply not used", to strip undesirables of their adopted nationality. "We have to act against radical preachers capable of influencing the youngest and most weak-minded," Mr Sarkozy told the French daily Le Parisien.

The first to be caught in the new round of expulsions is an Algerian, Rena Ameuroud, whose brother Abderraham was jailed in France earlier this year for his part in a jihadist training exercise in the Fontainebleau forest south of Paris. He faces immediate deportation for allegedly urging fellow-worshippers at a Parisian mosque to engage in "holy war".

At least seven French nationals are now known to have been killed while fighting with anti-coalition insurgents in Iraq, in some cases as suicide bombers, the minister said. A further 10 are believed still to be there. France, which has Europe's largest Muslim population with estimates varying from five to nine million out of a population of 60 million, has long prided itself on its stern approach to terrorism.

Mr Sarkozy's crackdown on those "promoting radical Islamist polemic" was disclosed at the end of a week that began with French anger at Britain's failure to extradite the alleged financier of Islamist bombings in Paris in the mid-1990s. Rachid Ramda, 35, an Algerian, has been held for 10 years while fighting attempts to return him to stand trial. Survivors and victims' relatives who gathered this week at the St Michel station in the heart of Paris to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the worst attack, which killed eight, called on Britain to "stop protecting" Ramda.

They are unimpressed by his supporters' claims that he is a "gentle and peaceful" man who devotes his time in the Belmarsh top-security jail in south-east London to learning the Koran by heart, studying English literature and comforting other Muslim prisoners. Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, has approved Ramda's extradition - as did his predecessor David Blunkett - but his removal depends on High Court proceedings.

French ministers and commentators have long expressed exasperation at British handling of individuals who support terrorism, arguing that greater emphasis is being placed on their human rights rather than on security interests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/30/ncleric30.xml&site=5

demotivater
08-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Wow. Bravo

Paracaidista
08-01-2005, 05:25 PM
about time

Laworkerbee
08-01-2005, 05:33 PM
woot

oldsoak
08-01-2005, 05:37 PM
we have a problem in that while the government wishes to deport them, the judges show no such desire or see no such need.

2Sheds_Jackson
08-01-2005, 05:39 PM
Very encouraging news.

Argyll
08-01-2005, 06:22 PM
Doesn't help when the PM's wife is a tree hugging,Human Rights barrister!! ;)

roland
08-01-2005, 06:37 PM
about time

no, France expells extremist clerics since a while. It's just that 12 in a row had never been tried before and deserve a place in the Guiness book ;)

Inconnu
08-01-2005, 08:20 PM
Good job D.S.T and R.G woot

SeanAshi
08-01-2005, 08:38 PM
Would it be unconstitutional to do that here in the United States?

Airborneranger4israel
08-01-2005, 09:31 PM
congrats, about time, hopefully this is a sign of things to come,

n4292936
08-01-2005, 09:33 PM
Doesn't help when the PM's wife is a tree hugging,Human Rights barrister!! ;) Because the world would be a far better place without human rights advocates? :|


.... but yeah, good news! woot Im a proponent of the view that citizenship is something that can be forfeited or revoked should circumstances warrant it.

Zarathustra
08-01-2005, 09:40 PM
Good job and good riddance ! :D

Bluezoo
08-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Should have done that long ago, like for instance, it is no accident that the Ayatollah Khomeini chose France as his home while in exile from Iran. p-)


But in retrospect, I began to wonder. If they are deported, it means that they are free to do whatever they like in other countries Arguably, this is a pallative measure which does not solve the problem. The problem is just passed from France to another third world country, which will have another problem dealing with these radicals when their resources are already streched.

If these so called clerics preached inflammatory teachings, they should have been dealt with right there and there. They must have in some instance committed some seditious statements which would warrant their arrest and incarceration, away from the public and their minions where they could not influence gullible minds. But then again,the outcry from their followers in France might prove costly/risky politically.

I suppose booting them out is far better. The question now arises---are these countries in Africa capable of dealing with these radicals? What if the country of origin is Ivory Coast or Rowanda or Somalia or Niger, etc. If I remember it right, Chirac could not help resist lecturing some of African countries before because he felt that they still have a lot more to learn...from him or from France. :roll:

Belrick
08-02-2005, 12:46 AM
Islam is not something that should be accepted in any forward liberal nation.

Screw extremism including extreme tolerance, the koran is clear in its treatment towards gays, unbelievers woman and children.
Throw in the fact that the koran is to be treated by muslims as the literal word of god then you hav every reason to bar this faith from your nation.

Im not saying muslims are bad people im saying theres no excuse to advocate voilence and oppression which is exactly what Islam does. Never mind the the sugar coating good parts. Ban Islam unless the koran is edited and or the spiteful parts are ignored. (like in modern christianity)

In todays pc tolerance mindset the NAZI party would of been allowed. That sucks IMHO.

dacanadianbomb
08-02-2005, 01:44 AM
Yeah but would you then actualyl expell Christian or Jewish hate preachers, if they happen to get into the limelight ?
Thats the interesting thing.

n4292936
08-02-2005, 03:58 AM
Islam is not something that should be accepted in any forward liberal nation.

Screw extremism including extreme tolerance, the koran is clear in its treatment towards gays, unbelievers woman and children.
Throw in the fact that the koran is to be treated by muslims as the literal word of god then you hav every reason to bar this faith from your nation.

Im not saying muslims are bad people im saying theres no excuse to advocate voilence and oppression which is exactly what Islam does. Never mind the the sugar coating good parts. Ban Islam unless the koran is edited and or the spiteful parts are ignored. (like in modern christianity)

In todays pc tolerance mindset the NAZI party would of been allowed. That sucks IMHO. Yes, your wisdom regarding tolerance towards religion was amply demonstrated here http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1126546#1126546

As mentioned there, you'll find acute similarities across the entire range of judeo-christian religions and Islam.

And if you're interested in how todays PC society would accept the Nazi party, see Australia's (and many others) new legislation regarding preaching hate and Germany's long standing policy on the issue. Maybe it's just NZ mate :|

roland
08-02-2005, 04:51 AM
Yeah but would you then actualyl expell Christian or Jewish hate preachers, if they happen to get into the limelight ?
Thats the interesting thing.

Of course !
Extremist clerics repression had been done in a big scale in the past against anti Republican Catholic extremists. France have a long tradition calming down religious exited and that's good: we like clerics humble and discreet. Even religious people agree with that.

Sharp
08-02-2005, 07:34 AM
this happen since long time ago.

i like to listen americans say "about time", but wtf? what do you know of what happen in France from your isle...?? the hunt against this mans never stopped. What do you think, you think that french politics and french policeman want to see the bombs explode in France like in London? It's not a job, it's a citizen work, it's a work of everyday.
It's not without reason if French troops have been sended in Afghanistan since the 11 Septembre after the first terrorists attacks. the job never stopped.

it's just what we can call in France the "Sarkozy effect".

Mailman
08-02-2005, 08:56 AM
Would it be unconstitutional to do that here in the United States?

How serious is the issue with extremisists in America??

I wouldnt have thought the problems are as bad as they are here in England?

Mailman

toad
08-02-2005, 09:26 AM
this happen since long time ago.

i like to listen americans say "about time", but wtf? what do you know of what happen in France from your isle...?? the hunt against this mans never stopped. What do you think, you think that french politics and french policeman want to see the bombs explode in France like in London? It's not a job, it's a citizen work, it's a work of everyday.
It's not without reason if French troops have been sended in Afghanistan since the 11 Septembre after the first terrorists attacks. the job never stopped.

it's just what we can call in France the "Sarkozy effect".


"this happen since long time ago"... well no, not really. Calling for expulsion for 12 radicals is rather unprescidented, by any rational review.

Your exortations about other peoples perceptions seem a bit whiney....
It appears it took an event like the London bombings to cause a bit of 'sarkozy effect', and that is why some say 'its about time'.

It takes a politician like sarkozy to stir things up and get some attention, you can't fault others for your nations laisse faire dealings with radicals.

Maybe you need more Sarkozy effect?

"The gulf between British and French treatment of preachers of hatred and violence was thrown sharply into focus yesterday when France announced the summary expulsion of a dozen Islamists between now and the end of August. "

Sure looks to me like things were definitely thrown into focus....

....and I say "its about time". :roll:

roland
08-02-2005, 10:30 AM
... you can't fault others for your nations laisse faire dealings with radicals.


"laisse faire dealings with radicals" ? you are speaking of UK and USA ? because if you speak of France I don't see what you are talking about. Can you explain ?