xm-8

[Airborneranger4israel]

the xm8 family is no long listed on the HK usa website and no longer has its own page, why is this?

btw whats the status with this rifle

[GreatWarAZUS]

Two possible causes:

1. They're redesigning that part of the site.

2. Your first question answers your second.

Time will tell, eh?

-GreatWarAZUS

[Tony Williams]

The XM8 has received two blows this year. In May, it was decided to reopen the competition for the US Army's next 5.56mm weapon family rather than automatically select the XM8. In July, it was decided to postpone the competition to include the needs of other services (principally the USMC). So the whole process has been put back by months (at least) and it is now an open competition.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[Ratamacue]

The XM8 has received two blows this year. In May, it was decided to reopen the competition for the US Army's next 5.56mm weapon family rather than automatically select the XM8. In July, it was decided to postpone the competition to include the needs of other services (principally the USMC). So the whole process has been put back by months (at least) and it is now an open competition.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
I don't think it helped all too much either that the FN SCAR was selected by USSOCOM over the XM8.

[Michael RVR]

I don't know about that. The criteria for the SCAR were not really similar to the XM-8 as it was.

The XM-8 is now supposed to have a high degree of commonality with its belt fed LSW version, like 70% or so.

It still means the XM-8 / MG-3 will win (i hear they can almost match that), but there may be mods i suppose.

I'm surprised to hear the USMC wants in, i thought they wanted nothing to do with it?

[rob]

I don't know about that. The criteria for the SCAR were not really similar to the XM-8 as it was.

The XM-8 is now supposed to have a high degree of commonality with its belt fed LSW version, like 70% or so.

It still means the XM-8 / MG-3 will win (i hear they can almost match that), but there may be mods i suppose.

I'm surprised to hear the USMC wants in, i thought they wanted nothing to do with it?
this is the first time i hear the marines wanting in. they have their own tests going on right now including the lw and barret m468. it would seem logical that the army and marines would atleast compare notes.

also gneral dynamics is now incharge of the xm8 design for the moment and in its current form what was the xm8 does not fit the requirments (actually it never did, it just took the army this long to do something about it.)

the xm8 never was entered into scar trials, and the scar trials are being reopened with new specs. the whole situation is a mess right now and i dont think there will be a replacement for the m4 ar15 series for atleast 10 more years at the rate things are going. hell the m16 was ment to be a temporary rifle until a new rifle is found, but it has proven itself worthy and lasted longer then any other us service rifle in recent times.

[JoaMei]

The XM8 has received two blows this year. In May, it was decided to reopen the competition for the US Army's next 5.56mm weapon family rather than automatically select the XM8. In July, it was decided to postpone the competition to include the needs of other services (principally the USMC). So the whole process has been put back by months (at least) and it is now an open competition.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
I don't think it helped all too much either that the FN SCAR was selected by USSOCOM over the XM8.

SCAR is much to expensive for general use, and the XM-8 did not compete in the trial because there is no 7,62x51 Version but this was a requirement.

[Little J]

SCAR is being re-opened? Any idea why (the FN was an ugly gun, did soccom operators not want to be seen with it or something :lol: )?

[CONSERVATIVE53]

SCAR is being re-opened? Any idea why (the FN was an ugly gun, did soccom operators not want to be seen with it or something :lol: )?

It was selected.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=54827&highlight=scar

[Durandal]

I have my fingers crossed that they are ditching the XM-8.

A large waste of money.

[Blarney]

large waste of money indeed, no new aspects other than it can interchange easily. If it was a 6.8, mabye it would be better.

I believe a cheaper alternative would be to convert existing M16s and M4s to chamber the 6.8 through the new Barret M468. Then mags, gear and training wouldnt need to be replaced as well as most guns in the armed forces. Its cheaper, more cost efective and its American made

[CONSERVATIVE53]

I have my fingers crossed that they are ditching the XM-8.

A large waste of money.

Yeah. I heard that in testing the handguard melted onto the soldiers hands. Hopefully he had nomex gloves on.

[WarriorMonk]

I have my fingers crossed that they are ditching the XM-8.

A large waste of money.

Yeah. I heard that in testing the handguard melted onto the soldiers hands. Hopefully he had nomex gloves on.

frikkin' old.

They fixed that already.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

I have my fingers crossed that they are ditching the XM-8.

A large waste of money.

Yeah. I heard that in testing the handguard melted onto the soldiers hands. Hopefully he had nomex gloves on.

frikkin' old.

They fixed that already.

Its still a piece of crap.

[One_A]

large waste of money indeed, no new aspects other than it can interchange easily. If it was a 6.8, mabye it would be better.

I believe a cheaper alternative would be to convert existing M16s and M4s to chamber the 6.8 through the new Barret M468...

Not again. The big Army is not going to develop and test another new caliber. Not going to happen.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

can someone tell me some downs about the XM8 ive never heard anything bad about it exept that some people dont like how it looks

i think its an awsome rifle

http://www.defense-update.com/images/xm8.jpg

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/xm8-poster.jpg

[JoaMei]

I have my fingers crossed that they are ditching the XM-8.

A large waste of money.

Yeah. I heard that in testing the handguard melted onto the soldiers hands. Hopefully he had nomex gloves on.

frikkin' old.

They fixed that already.

Its still a piece of crap.

Not the Handguard was melting but the point where the Barrel is fixed. And it went on nobodys Hands, it was just a visible Deformation.
This only Happened after sustained Fire with MORE AMMO A RIFLEMAN CAN CARRY.

Stop your Bull**** Storys and tell us why it is crap?

[Ratamacue]

I think the main problem with the XM8 is that it really doesn't offer any significant advantages over the M4/M16. It's more reliable, true, but what else? It's really no more modular than an M16. The integrated optic/laser/illuminator sight could just as easily be mounted on an M16. Same goes for the XM320 grenade launcher.

[BlackFlag]

I think the main problem with the XM8 is that it really doesn't offer any significant advantages over the M4/M16. It's more reliable, true, but what else? It's really no more modular than an M16. The integrated optic/laser/illuminator sight could just as easily be mounted on an M16. Same goes for the XM320 grenade launcher.

well reliability is EXTREMELY important..i remember when we had the thread about when US/Russian forces held a joint operation...the Russians were laughing at the M16 and how much care had to go into cleaning it...if we can find a rifle thats as accurate as the M16 but twice as reliable then thats reason enough to use that rifle..

Also, the 6.8 issue..the ONLY way we would switch to this round is if NATO decided to switch to this round...many peopole forget that every nato assault rifle is basically 5.56 or 7.62x51..thats because these are designated as nato rounds..for lets say a massive war erupted..it would ensure that if units got mixed up we would have compatible ammo/mags...so you arent gonna see any 6.8 in a main battle rifle unless we convince the whole of nato to convert...good luck there.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

[JoaMei]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

There is no Problem with that, you can attach rails when you want them. But one of the most important requirements for the new Rifle was the new attachment system(The two dark spote on the forearm).

[TuNeRsHaRk]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

There is no Problem with that, you can attach rails when you want them. But one of the most important requirements for the new Rifle was the new attachment system(The two dark spote on the forearm).

oh i see but what about the bottom? the handguard is at an angle? how would that work im guessing youd heave to get a whole new handguard for it thats flat on to bottom

a full RIS version would be nice with rails on top,sides and bottom

[SMGLee]

The XM8 has received two blows this year. In May, it was decided to reopen the competition for the US Army's next 5.56mm weapon family rather than automatically select the XM8. In July, it was decided to postpone the competition to include the needs of other services (principally the USMC). So the whole process has been put back by months (at least) and it is now an open competition.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Correct... Modual Weapon system will also include the FN SCAR. and every branch is looking at the FN SCAR as we speak to see if they can use it as the next generation rifle. it is possible that FN SCAR will no longer be a light forward thining weapon but a rifle design by committee... very sad. on the other hand, SCAR program managers are also looking to Modular weapons system to see what come out of it that might be better then the awesome FN SCAR.

[SMGLee]

I don't think it helped all too much either that the FN SCAR was selected by USSOCOM over the XM8.

XM8 was never involved in the SCAR selection.. HK can't submit the XM8 because it is an Army funded project and they can't use gov't money funded weapon to enter in a public competition. XM8 was never in the selection. There is a model designated as the XM8-R, it is HK's rail alternative to the P-CAP system, that was for branches that might not want to reconfigure their accessories to follow Army's requirements.

[SMGLee]

SCAR is much to expensive for general use, and the XM-8 did not compete in the trial because there is no 7,62x51 Version but this was a requirement.

I can't quote actually pricing, but the SCAR is very close to the pricing of a Colt M4, think cheaper.... surprised??

btw, did i mention I love the FN SCAR??

[SMGLee]

the xm8 never was entered into scar trials, and the scar trials are being reopened with new specs. the whole situation is a mess right now and i dont think there will be a replacement for the m4 ar15 series for atleast 10 more years at the rate things are going. hell the m16 was ment to be a temporary rifle until a new rifle is found, but it has proven itself worthy and lasted longer then any other us service rifle in recent times.

SCAR was not reopened, it is modular weapon system block 1 that is the hold up with the SCAR project.. see post above.

Rob, Marine corps system command test things every year, and tons of products go throught that outfit and get ditched... and only a few get through to its grunts... LW and Barrett 68 might have been tested but likely it is going tomake it into service is doubtful. I just hope FN produce the SCAR for civilian consumption. I have been hearing good news on that front.

[ArmyRanger]

its got ALOT of plastic in it

[SMGLee]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

There is no Problem with that, you can attach rails when you want them. But one of the most important requirements for the new Rifle was the new attachment system(The two dark spote on the forearm).

Those are Army requirements and no other branches are excited about the P-CAP, those two dark spots on the forearm. This is why there is some XM8R floating around. Rail handguard and top rail for optic.

Park Police dumped their G36 for the HK M416 because they can't hold zero with the G36. everytime the gun gets hot, really hot, the zero shifts. some of the same problem experienced with the XM8 because of the polymer can't withstand hi-temp heat...

[TuNeRsHaRk]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

There is no Problem with that, you can attach rails when you want them. But one of the most important requirements for the new Rifle was the new attachment system(The two dark spote on the forearm).

Those are Army requirements and no other branches are excited about the P-CAP, those two dark spots on the forearm. This is why there is some XM8R floating around. Rail handguard and top rail for optic.

Park Police dumped their G36 for the HK M416 because they can't hold zero with the G36. everytime the gun gets hot, really hot, the zero shifts. some of the same problem experienced with the XM8 because of the polymer can't withstand hi-temp heat...

well then its up to Hk to replace the polymer with something else like metal right? i mean it cant be that hard, everytime you make a new product your gonna have problems with it.

[SMGLee]

what about a rail system is there any model that has rails on top or botom or the sides? i think a picitanny rail on top instead of the standard sight would be pretty cool

There is no Problem with that, you can attach rails when you want them. But one of the most important requirements for the new Rifle was the new attachment system(The two dark spote on the forearm).

Those are Army requirements and no other branches are excited about the P-CAP, those two dark spots on the forearm. This is why there is some XM8R floating around. Rail handguard and top rail for optic.

Park Police dumped their G36 for the HK M416 because they can't hold zero with the G36. everytime the gun gets hot, really hot, the zero shifts. some of the same problem experienced with the XM8 because of the polymer can't withstand hi-temp heat...

well then its up to Hk to replace the polymer with something else like metal right? i mean it cant be that hard, everytime you make a new product your gonna have problems with it.

Since HK sold the XM8 to GD land system, it is really not their problem any longer. there were proposal to modify the area in question but HK sold off the project before it can be implemented.

[Durandal]

Since HK sold the XM8 to GD land system, it is really not their problem any longer. there were proposal to modify the area in question but HK sold off the project before it can be implemented.

I think GD got the hose on this one. They should have done some more research and politicking to see where things were headed.

Its almost amusing.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

"Not the Handguard was melting but the point where the Barrel is fixed. And it went on nobodys Hands, it was just a visible Deformation.
This only Happened after sustained Fire with MORE AMMO A RIFLEMAN CAN CARRY.

Stop your Bull**** Storys and tell us why it is crap?"

Calm down. First of all, the xm8 comes in a machine gun variant so the fact that the gun was firing more ammo than a rifleman can carry doesn't matter. It has a 5.56 mm bullet, it should have a 6.8 or 7.62. The army has put millions of dollars into it and it doesn't sound promising.

[SMGLee]

I think GD got the hose on this one. They should have done some more research and politicking to see where things were headed.

Its almost amusing.

GD got more money then God to play with, they might make it work. besides nice tax write off for them.




Calm down. First of all, the xm8 comes in a machine gun variant so the fact that the gun was firing more ammo than a rifleman can carry doesn't matter. It has a 5.56 mm bullet, it should have a 6.8 or 7.62. The army has put millions of dollars into it and it doesn't sound promising.

Actually it is not the handguards it is the trunnion....
Heat loosen the trunnion and cause a zero shift. too much heat casue the area surrounding the trunnion to melt. that is actually proven by Larry Reimer of the fame AREA51 Guns, his rental G36k melted a trunnion. it suprised a lot of folks that thought the G36 as this bad ass rifle.. but a lot of insiders knew all along...

HK M416 is a much better system anyway.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

I think GD got the hose on this one. They should have done some more research and politicking to see where things were headed.

Its almost amusing.

GD got more money then God to play with, they might make it work. besides nice tax write off for them.




Calm down. First of all, the xm8 comes in a machine gun variant so the fact that the gun was firing more ammo than a rifleman can carry doesn't matter. It has a 5.56 mm bullet, it should have a 6.8 or 7.62. The army has put millions of dollars into it and it doesn't sound promising.

Actually it is not the handguards it is the trunnion....
Heat loosen the trunnion and cause a zero shift. too much heat casue the area surrounding the trunnion to melt. that is actually proven by Larry Reimer of the fame AREA51 Guns, his rental G36k melted a trunnion. it suprised a lot of folks that thought the G36 as this bad ass rifle.. but a lot of insiders knew all along...

HK M416 is a much better system anyway.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. I'd take a SCAR or m14DMR over the XM8 any day.

[Durandal]

GD got more money then God to play with, they might make it work. besides nice tax write off for them.

True.

Does that mean they are inheriting part of OICW program too? Or did they completely $hit can that project all together?

[CONSERVATIVE53]

GD got more money then God to play with, they might make it work. besides nice tax write off for them.

True.

Does that mean they are inheriting part of OICW program too? Or did they completely $hit can that project all together?

I think the army pretty much canned the OICW program, and the XM8 is an attempt to salvage something from it. the Army spent a sh^t load of money on the OICW so they didn't want to fail completely. The OICW was to bulky and it took to long to train the average joe to use it.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

i truly dont think the time for a new U.S army standard issue rifle will come anytime in the next 4 years i just think the military is looking into it for future purposes but when the time does come i hope its something nice and good looking like the XM8 but with not as much damn plastic

[SMGLee]

OICW is the modular weapon system Block 1... This is what is holding SCAR in its place right now. every program managers from SCAR to Modular weapons is looking to see what is coming up next.

SCAR is being eveluated by all branches right now to see if this system can fit into their program. therefor the delay on SCAR.

OICW is very much alive it is just under a different program and hoping one day the system from Modular weapons and XM25 can merge again once the technology catches up.

[Durandal]

I think the army pretty much canned the OICW program, and the XM8 is an attempt to salvage something from it. the Army spent a sh^t load of money on the OICW so they didn't want to fail completely. The OICW was to bulky and it took to long to train the average joe to use it.

Yeah, there was a little bit more to it than just that, but yeah.

[rob]

SMGlee, my mistake, i was told by many people that scar was reopened with a deadline expected sometime this fall for entries, and that the specs may be rewritten.

i still dont think there will be a replacement for the m16/m4 in the next 10 years.

[SMGLee]

SMGlee, my mistake, i was told by many people that scar was reopened with a deadline expected sometime this fall for entries, and that the specs may be rewritten.

i still dont think there will be a replacement for the m16/m4 in the next 10 years.

Rob, That has been a big disinformation on the net lately...

and EOL for M16 system is scheduled for 2009, of course date are never firm.. this is why all these requirements are popping up... the current M16 system is coming to an end with the US military as is the M9 pistols.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

makes me wonder what pistols theyll choose next hopefully hk or glock will come up with something

[SMGLee]

makes me wonder what pistols theyll choose next hopefully hk or glock will come up with something

HK USP with the new LEM trigger is a strong possibility...

[Little J]

On the calibre thing, wouldn't it make sense to actually do some tests, with more than just two sizes? The SPC or Grendel maybe the next NATO std but lets hope they get tested properly against their rivals and not 'forced' on NATO like in the 7.62 and 5.56 compitions.

I like the look of the xm8 ( :slap: ) but I think HK is onto more of a winner with its HK416.

[Sepper]

I'm gonna take a random uneducated guess and say that the 6.8 SPC will probably make it into use. It WOULD make sense to test other rounds, but thinking is sometimes looked down upon in the military. :lol: Just look at the "people sniffer".

The OICW is a good weapon, but not for every soldier and/or infantryman. It's more or less like the land warrior project. It's a good idea, and it will more than likely be incorporated into use with either specialized units or trained specialists within a unit. Of course, this is just me blowing uninformed statements out there. Don't quote me or anything. In any case, the military isn't likely to throw it all out there with something that will cost a lot and not function. At least they're taking their time on issuing out the XM8s, rather than pushing them on the soldiers like the M16s in Vietnam. Good that they learned their lesson I guess. :|

[James]

HK and other designers have engineered a variant of the M4 operates with a gas piston rather than having the gas blow all the way back into the bolt carrier.

http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/hk416.html

[rob]

HK and other designers have engineered a variant of the M4 operates with a gas piston rather than having the gas blow all the way back into the bolt carrier.

http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/hk416.html

colt was the first to do this in the 1960's

the LW seems to be the best system out there to date. not to impressed with the HK. they should have kept the same reciever demensions like LW, Colt and POF did.

for those the get the joke. ares seems to be "making" a piston conversion. make your desposits now.

smg lee, i still get information from very respected people that scar is reoopened and companies have confirmed recieving revised requirements. It seems the whole situation is a mess. :|

[SMGLee]

Rob,

Is one of your really reliable insider a manufacture???

It happens, a lot of hupe on this right now. everyone is running around like chicken with their heads cut off... the truth is the SCAR is not reopenning, it is the Modular Weapon that is on the ticker...

I like to tell ya more but you will have to wait a few more month... sorry.

[James]

More on the HK416

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_HK416,,00.html?ESRC=soldiertech.nl

[CarlosI]

I read alot of reports from troops in Iraq for instances who say that the 5.56 is to weak, showing that it can't go though alot of walls and many urban areas where terrorist attack them from. Does anyone know any chances of the military increasing the caliber of the weapon?

[Seraphim]

I love HK's but LW has HK beat on the M4 platform.

[SMGLee]

LW's platform is nice, does not increase the upper height and it is lighter.

HK does have a leg on LW... HK can mass produce. LW will require ramp up. they are only cranking out few at a time right now.

As far as for the 5.56 not powerful enough, you will always get nay sayer in everything. the feaking thing is a powered up varmint round... come on, shooting through a concrete wall is not what this round was designed for. if you general issue heavier caliber then you get a bunch of guys saying they can't carry enough ammo and the load is too heavy.. have you heard the saying... 300 pounds of lightweight gear??

556 is not going to go anywhere.. 6.8 as great as it is, it can't displace the 556 because of supply and what it means to change caliber. the next gen US military rifle will most likely be 556, wait... it will be 556. there is nothing 68 can do that 556 and 7.62 can't. why have a caliber in between the two?? besides, 68 will not be any better at punching through concrete wall. C4 or 203 is better for that role.

look at the SCAR and the Modular Weapon JORD(XM8), 68 has ben taken out of the requirement on both account.

[FozzieBear]

LW's platform is nice, does not increase the upper height and it is lighter.

HK does have a leg on LW... HK can mass produce. LW will require ramp up. they are only cranking out few at a time right now.

As far as for the 5.56 not powerful enough, you will always get nay sayer in everything. the feaking thing is a powered up varmint round... come on, shooting through a concrete wall is not what this round was designed for. if you general issue heavier caliber then you get a bunch of guys saying they can't carry enough ammo and the load is too heavy.. have you heard the saying... 300 pounds of lightweight gear??

556 is not going to go anywhere.. 6.8 as great as it is, it can't displace the 556 because of supply and what it means to change caliber. the next gen US military rifle will most likely be 556, wait... it will be 556. there is nothing 68 can do that 556 and 7.62 can't. why have a caliber in between the two?? besides, 68 will not be any better at punching through concrete wall. C4 or 203 is better for that role.

look at the SCAR and the Modular Weapon JORD(XM8), 68 has ben taken out of the requirement on both account.yeah i agree, the british armies mix of 5.56 rifles LSW's and minime's combined with GPMG's works for us, our L85's have heavy and long barrels though.

[Seraphim]

Well its still odd if HK416 is mass produced but yet still costs almost twice as much as LW.

[rob]

Well its still odd if HK416 is mass produced but yet still costs almost twice as much as LW.

this is hk you are talking about. their polymer frame pistols cost more then most steal framed pistols. you pay a nice price for for those two letters.

smglee,

two manufacturers have said that they recieved updated specs for scar and a date in the fall for submissions. there where also a lot of people that say so as well.

i guess that i will assume to know nothing, i trust your word but there is too much conflicting information going around on this one.

[SMGLee]

Well its still odd if HK416 is mass produced but yet still costs almost twice as much as LW.

Compare upper...

LW I think is approximately 1200.00 for the upper with M4 handguards, BCG, CH.

HK is charging approximately 1700.00, but it also including the free float rail system and their Tungsten buffer. front and rear sight has not been decided

Pretty darn close..

[Seraphim]

Well its still odd if HK416 is mass produced but yet still costs almost twice as much as LW.

Compare upper...

LW I think is approximately 1200.00 for the upper with M4 handguards, BCG, CH.

HK is charging approximately 1700.00, but it also including the free float rail system and their Tungsten buffer. front and rear sight has not been decided

Pretty darn close..

Well because a guy on ar15 was selling the uppers for 2300....

[SMGLee]

Yea, actually it is a guy selling on another gun board and some one on ARFCOM linked it to it. The price is way jacked up because he knows he has the only few on the market.

I am suppose to get some too but all my are going to friends and I can't jack up the rpice for bar tip. :lol:

[Seraphim]

A little off topic but do you have any info on the release of the XCR? One of my friends is number 700 on the waiting list. Im going to wait for reviews and torture tests to see how well the XCR handles.

[SMGLee]

A little off topic but do you have any info on the release of the XCR? One of my friends is number 700 on the waiting list. Im going to wait for reviews and torture tests to see how well the XCR handles.

No date on my end neither...

XCR should be a great weapon once it is released.

FN is looking to release the SCAR too. Maybe that is want you should wait for, I know I am...

[Seraphim]

A little off topic but do you have any info on the release of the XCR? One of my friends is number 700 on the waiting list. Im going to wait for reviews and torture tests to see how well the XCR handles.

No date on my end neither...

XCR should be a great weapon once it is released.

FN is looking to release the SCAR too. Maybe that is want you should wait for, I know I am...

True enough, let my friend get the XCR and I'll get the SCAR and have a comparison. Any idea how much the SCAR will cost?

[SMGLee]

not to play on words, but it will be lower then you ever will expect....

I saw the gov't pricing, it is shockingly low..

[James]

Well its still odd if HK416 is mass produced but yet still costs almost twice as much as LW.

Compare upper...

LW I think is approximately 1200.00 for the upper with M4 handguards, BCG, CH.

HK is charging approximately 1700.00, but it also including the free float rail system and their Tungsten buffer. front and rear sight has not been decided

Pretty darn close..

Well because a guy on ar15 was selling the uppers for 2300....



Diamondback is selling similar uppers for around a grand I think. It appears to be a similar design to the HK.

[MEGR]

I read alot of reports from troops in Iraq for instances who say that the 5.56 is to weak, showing that it can't go though alot of walls and many urban areas where terrorist attack them from. Does anyone know any chances of the military increasing the caliber of the weapon?

The 5.56 wasn't designed to do such a task. The .223 cartridge was intended to be a shorter range round. It does have sufficient killing power at certain ranges. Plus, there are many different loads that can extend its range and its power. Some folks on here may have used it in combat, so I wonder what they have to say about it. I've heard good an bad things about the round.

About changing the caliber, I don't see that happening very soon. I'd love to see a more potent round, but that will take a while to implement.