Russian mission to Mars.

[tony6]

Well-I've just read that Russians are going to land on Mars in 2014.
(which is pretty optimistic don't You think?:)
Any comment?

[wreck]

Sounds quite amazing. Any reliable sources conderning this claim?

[tony6]

I read this on Polish newspapers.
Probably You will hear it soon:)
Mr. Putin will present the whole idea.
I don't think is possible (money!) but it could be quite interesting-it could speed up the whole thing (how about Chinese statements?:)

[GazB]

I think it was a reply to Bush's statements.

Basically what he is saying is that if tehy really just wanted to do these things the Russians could do it quicker and cheaper than NASA could... which is actually probably true... if they had the money, which they don't.

He was basically saying if you want to do this we can help you save money... what he didn't realise was that Bush is not saying this to actualy get to the Moon and Mars. What he is saying is that NASA is going to have something to do now... ie real goals. And that the US government is going to spend more money on technology in the space sector.

Of course that is very easy to say... while Bush is president the costs won't be that big a deal... if he gets in again they still haven't committed to getting to Mars before the end of his term. He can underfund it and if the next government drops it they will get the blame if the Russians or the Chinese get there before Bush wanted to get there.
If the next administration does fund it... we all know it will cost way more than they expect and that administration will get the blame.

Of course there is no point in going to the moon anymore... it is a barren rock of no interest. Photographing or taking small rock samples can be achieved much more easily and cheaply by sending robotic probes and orbiters.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

LOL!!! The Russians...go to Mars...hahahha!!! Their components for the International Space Station (most of it funded by the U.S.) are the biggest pieces of **** ever. Some of the components that they built were estimated at being outdated by atleast 10 to 15 years. They do not have the technology and especially the money. They could possibly accomplish something with the help of the Europeans, but their efforts will more than likely fail. Same with the Chinese and probobly the same with the U.S. We have record defeciets and because of that our currency and inflation rates are going up. We need to concentrate on the national debt first, not some far flung idea.

[Whistler]

I'm sure they could probably risk it, but I sure as hell would not want to be the first cosmonaut to volunteer :D.

[Russian Texan]

People it it amazing how little you know about Russia...
Mars - been there done that, long time ago... do your search on the net, sure pictures are not as good but the fact remains ;)

How about Venus? USSR landed there 10 times in the late 70s

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39727000/jpg/_39727075_mitch_203.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3387895.stm

Speaking of ISS, did you read the news lately? American section of ISS had to be shutdown because of the leak due to the faulty seal... and everyone had to move to the "****ty" russian section. Sure Russian equipment doesn't look like it is from StarTrek but its the only one that works :lol:
Teenagers, plz don't comment on issues that you are clueless about. ISS would be possible without Russia at all, point, no matter how much money you NASA and Europeans had.

[mustamato]

Yeah right, they can´t afford it.

Even though I didn´t live in the 70´s there are things like Discovery nowadays RussianTexan. The russian space program was quite far ahead in those days, of course one kosmonauts life wasn´t worth as much as one astronaut so maybe that was why they get a man up in the space first. And also technologically the russian seems to have been better. The one NASA uses today is based on a russian rocket engine obviously. And there would hardly be a ISS without the Mir and the experience gained from that.

But they lack $$$ now, its not like during the communist era when the engineers could be threatened with being sent to Gulag. They would need some rich american space tourist too sponsor them so that they could even buy coffee to their engineers to start with. I don´t believe this before I see the russians on Mars.

[Uncle Sam]

They can't even feed their own people, now they want to go to Mars...right ! Can A Country file Bankruptcy ? ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

They can't even feed their own people, now they want to go to Mars...right ! Can A Country file Bankruptcy ? ;)
Thats what yeltsin did during 1999
:lol:

[Russian Texan]

I agree money is the problem but what I am saying that no matter how much money you have if you don't have experience, technology and everything else that falls in the category of "scientific expertise", what's the point? Look at China: they are sure not sparring any money but still have extreeeemely long way to go....
Besides like it was noted before it would cost Russia much cheaper to do something like that. And money can come from various sources: private (may be Bill Gates wants his name to be engraved on a Mars surface), other countries that can't to it themselves but would like to go along for the ride or Russia might even afford it by itself if it makes it a priority. Financialy Russia is doing better every year, why do you think Putin enjoys 80% approval rating...

Ok, this is kind on-topic. One of my friends said, regarding Bush's space exploration plans: Kennedy had a vision, Bush is having hallucinations. :lol:
I just think it is hillarious rofl rofl rofl

[tony6]

Ok, this is kind on-topic. One of my friends said, regarding Bush's space exploration plans: Kennedy had a vision, Bush is having hallucinations.
I have to agree with that-it seems that George have to find some new topic for media-situation in Iraq is far from good and the presidential election is closing.

As for Putin's 80% approval-do You really think that it is the result of "doing better"?
I think is more like Russian menthality-they finally found their "strong man" behind the wheel. Besides-he's young, trains judo and worked in KGB-what else do You need?:)
It's strange that noone seems to notice that his methods are far from what we used to call "democracy" (much closer to his good old KGB school). Remeber latest elections in Russia? You call it "democracy"? Give me a break...

[Russian Texan]

Russia is doing financially better now than it was doing during Yeltsin years, thtat is a fact. Right now production levels are getting close to those of USSR.

Last elections have shown one thing - russians are tired of "western democracy combined with wild west" type of living, that is exactly why no democrats were able to pass barrier of the minimum number of votes required to get into parliament... Russians simply became disillusioned in "western democracy" and chose their own way....
I'll tell you even more - recently there was a survey done about freedom of press and 74%!!! of respondents said that they would like to see more censorship in the media. How do you explain that?

It is Russia and you don't get it unless you are Russian, simple like that...

[Jack Mehoff]

Some Russians in this forum still want to relive their glorious past. I think they need a big cup of coffee to wake up.

[mustamato]

Some Russians in this forum still want to relive their glorious past. I think they need a big cup of coffee to wake up.

They have the worlds largest country, in it lives a lot of people, and they live on the worlds richest soil. When you are old enough to have grey hair, they will probably not be as poor as they are today. And the Bush´s will have ruined USA so that both EU, Japan, China and possibly even Russia will be far ahead. But the problem with the ruskies is that they are ineffective and corrupt.

But on Mars 2014? Nah.

[usa320]

I think instead of a second space race, the two countries should work together.

To be honest i dont think Russia has the funds to complete the ISS, more or less go to mars.

[Kingpin]

Some Russians in this forum still want to relive their glorious past. I think they need a big cup of coffee to wake up.

Actually it is only question of time. :) When current youngsters will come to power (in 2025-2035) i think we'll once again challenge US or China or who'll be in charge at this time. :)

As for topic itself it is completely wrong. Russia going to revive Moon and Mars programs until 2014. It doesn't mean that it launch cosmonaut to Mars in this year. It means that Russia going start this project at full scale at 2014.

As for launch date set at 2014 - this date stated by scientists as technically possible in case of 100% funding (15 billions and i suppose real amount of required money will be much greater)

[Russian Texan]

The only reason Russia got involved into ISS was the money.
ISS is the source of money for the Russian Space agency, they don't pay to be there but get paid for being there.
Russia doesn't need a space station, it already had one which outlived its original term of life by 10 years and I think it had more political than practical meaning anyways...
In the end it doesn't matter who lands where first, it still will be fascinating, even more so, if it is escimos who do that. I just hope it will happen in my life time.

[Jack Mehoff]

Some Russians in this forum still want to relive their glorious past. I think they need a big cup of coffee to wake up.

They have the worlds largest country, in it lives a lot of people, and they live on the worlds richest soil. When you are old enough to have grey hair, they will probably not be as poor as they are today. And the Bush´s will have ruined USA so that both EU, Japan, China and possibly even Russia will be far ahead. But the problem with the ruskies is that they are ineffective and corrupt.

But on Mars 2014? Nah.

Bush ruining America? You check our economy lately? I'd take that as a no

One can alway dream and predict whats going to happen in the future, right?

On the positive note, Russia becoming more democracy and start accepting the concept of capitalism.

[mustamato]

Bush ruining America? You check our economy lately? I'd take that as a no.

Todays rating of the dollar, you get 1.37230 USD for 10 swedish kronor. During Clintons era you got like 0.9-1 USD, and the dollar is still falling.

[Kingpin]

Bush ruining America? You check our economy lately? I'd take that as a no.

Todays rating of the dollar, you get 1.37230 USD for 10 swedish kronor. During Clintons era you got like 0.9-1 USD, and the dollar is still falling.

It doesn't mean anything except euro goods becoming more expensive.

[hood]

I don't see the 2014 date of putting a Russian on Mars is a big deal. The US successfully landed that rover a few weeks ago, and they're about to land another one. There isn't all that much reason why we couldn't have sent a person instead. The hard part is getting that person back to Earth. The question will be how much the Russians care about the people in the spacecraft. Are they going to take extraordinary risks to their well being to make it happen?

The problem with many people who think that this stuff like putting a base on the Moon and going to Mars is a waste of money, aren't seeing the true benefits of these missions. If we have a base on the Moon, it means that we're going to have to build amazing new space craft that can go from one planet to another, land, take off again and fly back. Interplanetary space travel will suddenly be the norm. The advancements to travel technologies and methods even on Earth will be staggering.

[Dmitri]

Bush ruining America? You check our economy lately? I'd take that as a no


Well, have you Jack? I just had a business class yesterday (yes, in US), did you know in past 2-3 years USA debt has increased around 2 TRILLION dollars?? So now its somewhere like 7,5 TRILLION? Thats more than a quater increase, does that sound very healthy?

[hood]

Dmitri, you have no patience. We're just now, starting to see the economy getting back on its feet after coming out of the major tech sector destruction, and recession. You expect all facets of it to be 110% at all times? It'll get back to good numbers slowly but surely. One thing is clear, it's definitely on it's way back up.

[hood]

Here was another good paragraph the makes a good point.


"Establishing an extended human presence on the moon could vastly reduce the cost of further space exploration, making possible ever more ambitious missions," he said. "Lifting heavy spacecraft and fuel out of the Earth's gravity is expensive. Spacecraft assembled and provisioned on the moon could escape its far lower gravity using far less energy and thus far less cost."

[Skaman]

I don't see the 2014 date of putting a Russian on Mars is a big deal. The US successfully landed that rover a few weeks ago, and they're about to land another one. There isn't all that much reason why we couldn't have sent a person instead. The hard part is getting that person back to Earth. The question will be how much the Russians care about the people in the spacecraft. Are they going to take extraordinary risks to their well being to make it happen?

The problem with many people who think that this stuff like putting a base on the Moon and going to Mars is a waste of money, aren't seeing the true benefits of these missions. If we have a base on the Moon, it means that we're going to have to build amazing new space craft that can go from one planet to another, land, take off again and fly back. Interplanetary space travel will suddenly be the norm. The advancements to travel technologies and methods even on Earth will be staggering.

I don’t see the point of “moon bases” and landing on terrestrial planets devoid of life. I would much rather see exploration technology increase so humanity could explore beyond our own solar system. There are billions of stars out there, each for their own solar system no? There HAS to be life out there somewhere. That thought truly intrigues me. I think we should continue study in physic sciences; who says there cannot be a 4th dimension, one we are not conscious of. I think an interesting aspect is the use of a black hole- the most destructive power in the universe. The possibilities of harnessing black holes into space travel are interesting. Perhaps the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line but brining the start and end points together by folding the points through use of a black hole? Anyone ever seen the film Event Horizon?

[Trigger]

Yeah...Everyone died. No fun.

[Skaman]

Yeah...Everyone died. No fun.


good movie though.

[Trigger]

You and I are destined to disagree. :|

[Skaman]

You and I are destined to disagree. :|

I simply enjoyed the interesting premise. I could have done with-out the over the top gore.

[Skaman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3398141.stm

[Dmitri]

Dmitri, you have no patience. We're just now, starting to see the economy getting back on its feet after coming out of the major tech sector destruction, and recession. You expect all facets of it to be 110% at all times?No, I'm patient, and of course wish it all luck, especially since I live here now ;) But since I lived most of my life in Russia, it also seems absurd to me how everyone bashes it. For past several years its GDP was rising 2-5% and reserve gov't money are stocking up, yet everyone continues to ignore **** like that, so be patient...

[aeternum]

There isn't all that much reason why we couldn't have sent a person instead.

Well then you have no idea about what is technical feasible and what not.

Lets say you want to send a team of 6 people to Mars. Expert say a mission to mars would last around 1000 days. So 1 person should drink 2-3 liter water a day, makes it 12 liter a day for the team. This is 12.000 liter water the team needs. Not even counting food and other stuff like fuel. In other words, we dont have the engines (chemical engines) right now to bring people to mars and back. And until we got one, years if not decades will pass by.

[cut]

americans will get there first...

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2004020863,00.gif

[Javehn]

americans will get there first...

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2004020863,00.gif

:lol:

China will kick everybody's ass and get there first .

[Dmitri]

Here, if anyone wants to translate this to English, it is a story on Russian news talking about the new space program and missions to Moon and Mars

В России обсуждается вопрос о возобновлении программ исследования Луны и Марса, заявил ИТАР-ТАСС первый заместитель главы Росавиакосмоса Николай Моисеев. "До конца года будет разработана Федеральная космическая программа до 2015 года, в которую, возможно, войдут и эти проекты", - сказал он. По словам Моисеева, "со стороны ученых поступает много инициатив по организации экспедиций на Луну и Марс, однако пока неизвестно, какая из них будет включена в федеральную программу".

Лунную программу Россия может реанимировать в течение нескольких лет, считает первый заместитель генерального директора Научно-производственного объединения им. Лавочкина Роальд Кремнев.

"После свертывания советской программы исследования спутника Земли в конце 70-х годов прошлого века мы более трех десятилетий поддерживаем научно-технические разработки по этой тематике на современном уровне", - утверждает Кремнев. По его словам, в настоящее время на предприятии, где был создан легендарный "Луноход", "есть серьезный задел по лунным автоматам".

"Если Россия примет решение восстановить лунную программу, нам потребуется год на создание эскизного проекта нового "Лунохода" и еще 2-3 года - на строительство аппарата", - сообщил Кремнев. Создание и запуск такого аппарата, по оценке Кремнева, обойдется в 600 млн. рублей.

Пилотируемый полет на Луну, считает он, можно будет осуществить с помощью мощной ракеты-носителя "Энергия", которая была создана для первого российского челнока "Буран" в Ракетно-космической корпорации "Энергия".

Для строительства на спутнике Земли постоянных баз можно использовать автоматические аппараты, которые доставят туда оборудование и транспортные средства, отметил Кремнев. "Кроме того, мы готовы сделать роботов, способных построить на Луне временные жилые комплексы", - добавил он.

По мнению Кремнева, создавать поселение на Луне "наиболее разумно в тесной международной кооперации, как в проекте Международной космической станции".

Лунные источники энергии могут спасти Землю от глобального энергетического кризиса, считает член бюро Совета по космосу РАН, академик Эрик Галимов. Добытый на Луне и доставленный на Землю тритий может быть использован для термоядерного синтеза, утверждает ученый. Кроме того, по мнению Галимова, Луна может стать "форпостом исследования дальнего космоса, базой для мониторинга астероидной опасности, контроля за развитием критических ситуаций на нашей планете".

Российская пилотируемая экспедиция к Марсу может стартовать уже через десять лет. В РКК "Энергия" утверждают, что уже разработан эскизный проект корабля многоразового использования, способного доставить людей к Красной планете и вернуть их на Землю.

По словам конструктора РКК "Энергия" Леонида Горшкова, "технически первый полет землян к Марсу может быть осуществлен уже в 2014 году". Для его реализации российским специалистам нужно 15 млрд. долларов - в 10 раз меньше, чем запросили американцы.

Напомним, вчера Джордж Буш выступил с речью, посвященной освоению космоса американцами. По его словам, США намерены возобновить пилотируемые полеты на Луну в период с 2015 по 2020 год и одновременно начать подготовку к путешествию человека на Марс.

Начиная с 2008 года, США приступят к исследованию Луны с помощью аппаратов-роботов для подготовки высадки человека.

Лунный форпост, где будут испытываться передовые технологии, послужит "ступенью" для более сложных космических миссий, в том числе на Марс. Для их осуществления США собираются создать новый "пилотируемый исследовательский корабль", который придет на смену нынешним шаттлам. Он будет разработан и испытан к 2008 году и совершит свой первый полет с астронавтами на борту не позже 2014 года. Если российская космическая программа получит финансирование, к этому времени россияне будут уже на Марсе.

[Ballistic]

Instead of racing each other they should work together. This sort of "competition" to reach the stars is an outdated concept. It comes out of petty nationalism and outright arrogance, of which NASA is also guilty. The mission to go to Mars will be a difficult undertaking, and thats only scratching the surface. Why scientists and politicians cant drop their stubborness and immaturity for just one second is beyond me. A mission to the stars, atleast to the moon and Mars, should be an INTERNATIONAL effort. With help (knowledge, theories, funding) from other nations, NOT just the United States.

A moon base and a permanent presence on a surface other than our Earth is the greatest technological and scientific leap humankind has ever known. It's the stuff of Sci Fi, and it's about to be reality. Humanity needs to expand and explore our own Solar System first, understand more about it and get to know our neighbourhood before we venture into interstellar space. Fact is, that is a LONG way off. It's not possible right now to send anyone to another star yet, we dont have the physics, and personally, we are just not ready as a species to go out there. We need to grow up, evolve. Basically, we need to stop fighting each other.

Research in space is more beneficial than research here on Earth. It costs more, yes, but the only way to improve our technology expand our scientific horizons is to research and develop new technologies in the environment which will be our future..space. For the people who think a new space initiative is a waste of time and money, I pity you and your closed mindedness and lack of forethought. Our future is the stars, not Earth, and to better protect our home planet from the many threats in space and better recognise and act against them, we have to be out there.


There HAS to be life out there somewhere. That thought truly intrigues me. I think we should continue study in physic sciences; who says there cannot be a 4th dimension, one we are not conscious of. I think an interesting aspect is the use of a black hole- the most destructive power in the universe. The possibilities of harnessing black holes into space travel are interesting. Perhaps the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line but brining the start and end points together by folding the points through use of a black hole?

Yes, there has to be life out there. I dont believe we are the only living, breathing, intelligent life forms in the universe, hopefully that can be verified in the future. M Theory (http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html) is something that is looking into those possibilities, but most of it is theoretical and greatly beyond my comprehension, and the mathematical tools needed to investigate more thoroughly are like alot of things regarding space, propulsion, and whatever else, not yet invented.

Enough of my rambling, but to sum it up... Instead of racing each other, all space capable nations on earth should rally together, pool their knowledge, resources and theories together and HELP each other to expand our space program under ONE banner...humanity. Too much Star Trek for me. :D :P

[anonymous individual]

Where is Mars? :lol:

[Ratamacue]

Ducimus, the nearest star is what, 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri I believe)? Mankind does not even have the capability of going light speed (which isn't even known to be possible), so the trip would be quite a long time, not to mention there aren't any known terrestrial planets or moons in that system.

By establishing colonies on Mars and the moon, we're jumpstarting the future of space travel. 40 years ago the first man went into space, which sparked a massive buildup in space exploration until the late 1960's and early 1970's after man went to the moon and found nothing there. So now, in 2004, we have the possibility of sparking exploration again by establishing a permanent colony dedicated to science and space exploration on the moon, and sending the first men to another world comprised of more than dust and useless rocks. Mars could have resources, and possibly life or evidence of former life. Now, by setting a flame under space exploration again, technologies for that field will sprout faster and with more usefulness.

Oh yeah, trying to harness a black hole is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of until we reach the year 3000. If any sort of spacecraft, satellite, gizmo, whatever, went near a black hole, it would simply be sucked in or pulled apart like spaghetti. Sure, there are theories all about this, but remember that Event Horizon was simply a sci-fi horror movie, made by the same Hollywood that you condemn.

[UkrainianAmerican]

from the BBC article

When I grew older and these things did not happen, when presidents were threatened with impeachment and the planet was being polluted, I realised that the science fiction gurus were too optimistic.


TREEHUGGING HIPPIE ALERT!
:-*$ :fork: :bash:

[Skaman]

Ducimus, the nearest star is what, 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri I believe)? Mankind does not even have the capability of going light speed (which isn't even known to be possible), so the trip would be quite a long time, not to mention there aren't any known terrestrial planets or moons in that system.

By establishing colonies on Mars and the moon, we're jumpstarting the future of space travel. 40 years ago the first man went into space, which sparked a massive buildup in space exploration until the late 1960's and early 1970's after man went to the moon and found nothing there. So now, in 2004, we have the possibility of sparking exploration again by establishing a permanent colony dedicated to science and space exploration on the moon, and sending the first men to another world comprised of more than dust and useless rocks. Mars could have resources, and possibly life or evidence of former life. Now, by setting a flame under space exploration again, technologies for that field will sprout faster and with more usefulness.

Oh yeah, trying to harness a black hole is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of until we reach the year 3000. If any sort of spacecraft, satellite, gizmo, whatever, went near a black hole, it would simply be sucked in or pulled apart like spaghetti. Sure, there are theories all about this, but remember that Event Horizon was simply a sci-fi horror movie, made by the same Hollywood that you condemn.

Who says we need to send 'man' to the fringes of space, rather we could send robotic craft of some sort. Additionally, while I dislike Hollywood, I do find the odd film that catches my attention. I do not segregate myself form all culture that is American as that is near impossible. I try and watch as little American film as possible, but hey, even the yanks release a good film now and then.
p-)

[GazB]

"Establishing an extended human presence on the moon could vastly reduce the cost of further space exploration, making possible ever more ambitious missions," he said. "Lifting heavy spacecraft and fuel out of the Earth's gravity is expensive. Spacecraft assembled and provisioned on the moon could escape its far lower gravity using far less energy and thus far less cost."

This is rubbish. If there was water on the moon (ie a supply of oxygen and hydrogen to make rocket fuel out of) then it would be worth while building a moon base. If there were metals there that could be used to build space craft then it would be worth building a moon base. There aren't and so it isn't.

It would be cheaper to build space craft in Earths orbit than on the moon. the moon has no atmosphere. This means that to land on the moon you have to burn fuel to slow down and burn more fuel to stop from hitting the surface very hard... parachutes or like the shuttle... wings don't work on the moon. All the building materials and fuel would need to be sent to the moon to be assembled. Living and working on the moon would require more expensive launches from Earth than working in Earths orbit. To send air and food and fuel to a space station is much cheaper than sending those same items to the moon... like the difference between a proton rocket and a saturn 5 rocket... several hundred million dollars.

"So 1 person should drink 2-3 liter water a day, makes it 12 liter a day for the team. This is 12.000 liter water the team needs. "

Water isn't the problem. Water is recycled. The real problem is that when cosmonauts come down from 3 months in space they can't move. They are so weak that they can barely lift their arms. If they were in space three times longer than that how would they fare landing on Mars which has les gravity than Earth... but not that much less.

Unlike Event Horizon or star trek we can't switch on and off gravity like they do.

"Instead of racing each other they should work together. This sort of "competition" to reach the stars is an outdated concept. "

It is a great way for everyone to pay 5 or 6 times more than they would pay if they worked together... that is why it is so popular.

"A mission to the stars, atleast to the moon and Mars, should be an INTERNATIONAL effort. With help (knowledge, theories, funding) from other nations, NOT just the United States. "

Of course, but Americans like to do things first... it is an ego thing I think.

[Skaman]

from the BBC article

When I grew older and these things did not happen, when presidents were threatened with impeachment and the planet was being polluted, I realised that the science fiction gurus were too optimistic.


TREEHUGGING HIPPIE ALERT!
:-*$ :fork: :bash:


Apparently protecting the world’s global biosphere and immense ecological state is wrong. :|

[Skaman]

"Establishing an extended human presence on the moon could vastly reduce the cost of further space exploration, making possible ever more ambitious missions," he said. "Lifting heavy spacecraft and fuel out of the Earth's gravity is expensive. Spacecraft assembled and provisioned on the moon could escape its far lower gravity using far less energy and thus far less cost."

This is rubbish. If there was water on the moon (ie a supply of oxygen and hydrogen to make rocket fuel out of) then it would be worth while building a moon base. If there were metals there that could be used to build space craft then it would be worth building a moon base. There aren't and so it isn't.

It would be cheaper to build space craft in Earths orbit than on the moon. the moon has no atmosphere. This means that to land on the moon you have to burn fuel to slow down and burn more fuel to stop from hitting the surface very hard... parachutes or like the shuttle... wings don't work on the moon. All the building materials and fuel would need to be sent to the moon to be assembled. Living and working on the moon would require more expensive launches from Earth than working in Earths orbit. To send air and food and fuel to a space station is much cheaper than sending those same items to the moon... like the difference between a proton rocket and a saturn 5 rocket... several hundred million dollars.

"So 1 person should drink 2-3 liter water a day, makes it 12 liter a day for the team. This is 12.000 liter water the team needs. "

Water isn't the problem. Water is recycled. The real problem is that when cosmonauts come down from 3 months in space they can't move. They are so weak that they can barely lift their arms. If they were in space three times longer than that how would they fare landing on Mars which has les gravity than Earth... but not that much less.

Unlike Event Horizon or star trek we can't switch on and off gravity like they do.

"Instead of racing each other they should work together. This sort of "competition" to reach the stars is an outdated concept. "

It is a great way for everyone to pay 5 or 6 times more than they would pay if they worked together... that is why it is so popular.

"A mission to the stars, atleast to the moon and Mars, should be an INTERNATIONAL effort. With help (knowledge, theories, funding) from other nations, NOT just the United States. "

Of course, but Americans like to do things first... it is an ego thing I think.

Seems rational.

[Ballistic]

Ducimus, the nearest star is what, 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri I believe)? Mankind does not even have the capability of going light speed (which isn't even known to be possible), so the trip would be quite a long time, not to mention there aren't any known terrestrial planets or moons in that system.

Once again in the land of theories and so on, near light speeds are attainable, but not in the foreseeable future. The physics does not exist. With an Matter/AntiMatter based propulsion system, 66% percent of the Speed of Light is thought to be achievable, but until AntiMatter research picks up, those sorts of figures are nothing more than speculation. A trip to Alpha Centauri which is 4.4 light years away would take 41 years to get there using the aforementioned AntiMatter propulsion. Methods are being developed to detect planets much like ours using different techniques such as quoted from the NASA JPL Website regarding the Terrestrial Planet Finder program:



Overview:
The Terrestrial Planet Finder will be capable of detecting and characterizing Earth-like planets around as many as 150 stars up to 45 light-years away. The project will look for the atmospheric signatures of habitable or even inhabited planets.

Science Goals:
Survey nearby stars looking for terrestrial-size planets in the "habitable zone"
Follow up brightest candidates with spectroscopy, looking for atmospheric signatures, habitability or life itself
Carry out a program of high spatial-resolution astrophysics

Candidate
Technologies:
-large, passively cooled optics
-formation flying
-nulling interferometry
-precision wavefront control
-coronagraphs
-large precision optics for visible wavelenghts
-Infrared detectors
-cryocoolers

Above mission will begin between 2012 and 2015 and last for 5 years


By establishing colonies on Mars and the moon, we're jumpstarting the future of space travel. 40 years ago the first man went into space, which sparked a massive buildup in space exploration until the late 1960's and early 1970's after man went to the moon and found nothing there. So now, in 2004, we have the possibility of sparking exploration again by establishing a permanent colony dedicated to science and space exploration on the moon, and sending the first men to another world comprised of more than dust and useless rocks. Mars could have resources, and possibly life or evidence of former life. Now, by setting a flame under space exploration again, technologies for that field will sprout faster and with more usefulness.

Well they didnt exactly find nothing on the moon. :) There are resources on the moon just waiting to be tapped. Helium-3 for Fusion power here on Earth when it finally sees the light of day, and for Fusion based ship propulsion in space is just one of them. Permanent (http://www.Permanent.com) (P rojects to E mploy R esources of the M oon and A steroids N ear E arth in the N ear T erm) is full of information about what resources could be and are available on the moon. GazB believes there isnt anything on the moon worth mining, I dont know where he is getting that from, plenty of other people seem to believe there are resources there.....?? That aside, I fully agree with you Ratamacue. :)


Oh yeah, trying to harness a black hole is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of until we reach the year 3000. If any sort of spacecraft, satellite, gizmo, whatever, went near a black hole, it would simply be sucked in or pulled apart like spaghetti. Sure, there are theories all about this, but remember that Event Horizon was simply a sci-fi horror movie, made by the same Hollywood that you condemn.

Yeah, I find it absolutely crazy to be even thinking of tinkering around with Black Holes, but it's only theory, and who is to say that is dumb ? Once the physics are possible to delve more deeply into M Theory and whatever else, most things that seem daunting today will hardly be a problem in the future. It's not a matter of waiting until we reach the year 3000, it's a matter of discovering groundbreaking physics and mathematics, which may very well be in the year 3000. :D

[Jack Mehoff]

I hope we find some hot Martian babes

[Ballistic]

I hope we find some hot Martian babes

LOL :lol: :D

[Russian Texan]

Just in.
One of the russian space guys said: "Give us $14 bilion and we'll fly you to Mars in 2014".
So I figured, Bill Gates has about $60 bill, you think he'd go for it?

[tony6]

If I had $60 bil-I would definatelly go for it!
:)