Diary of soldier doomed by MoD failures (follow on article)

[fantassin]

Diary of a soldier doomed by MoD failures
By Michael Smith
Daily Telegraph
(Filed: 15/01/2004)


A soldier killed in Iraq as a direct result of equipment shortages described the demoralisation of British troops in voice diaries he taped for his wife.

Sgt Steven Roberts, 33, from Shipley, West Yorks, told his wife Samantha that he and his men knew they were going into war without the equipment they needed and that it was "disgraceful" that they had "absolutely nothing".

An initial investigation found that Sgt Roberts, who was shot in the chest, would have survived had he not been ordered to hand over his body armour to other troops because of shortages.

In one tape, recorded on the second day of the war and two days before he died, Sgt Roberts said: "I haven't got my combats [desert uniform] yet. Things we have been told we are going to get, we're not.

"It's disheartening because we know we are going to go to war without the correct equipment. It fills me with remorse."

In a final message to his wife, recorded the day before his death, his voice choked with emotion as he said: "I love you so much and I will speak to you when I can - probably tomorrow. I love you lots. Sleep tight babe. Bye."

A day later, on March 24, 2003, Sgt Roberts was shot dead when he and other members of the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment came under fire from Iraqi militants at alZubair, south-west of Basra.

Yesterday Mrs Robert, 32, called for the resignation of Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, who repeatedly denied that troops' lives were put at risk by equipment shortages.

She had sat in the public gallery of the House of Commons on Tuesday as Mr Hoon shrugged aside calls from Nicholas Soames, the shadow defence secretary, for him to take "the only honourable way forward" and resign.

Mrs Roberts said: "Mr Hoon is still saying there are no major issues over kit. Steve died because of a kit shortage. How many more men have to die before it is a major issue?"

She also accused Mr Hoon of lying to MPs. "He told the Commons he had given me a confidential report on what had happened on March 24. He has given me nothing."

She added: "Mr Hoon should see through the current investigations and then quit. But before he does go, I want my moment. I want a public apology."

[Hydro]

I read about this in the paper this morning. It's pretty damn disgusting. I can't remember if it was the same guy, or another soldier who noted in his diary that (paraphrasing here) "we are heading to base to up-armour, that's a bit of a joke, there's hardly any frontal armour to go around"

Geoff Hoon is one of many Labour politicians who actually make my head hurt whenever the **** opens his mouth. The sooner he resigns in disgrace, the better. Mrs. Roberts deserves her apology, and not from some ****ing Labour spin doctor, she needs a personal apology from Hoon. Maybe the fact we're learning that kit shortages actually resulted in a death may prompt a good hard look at the way our armed forces are managed.

The Government expects the UK to be at the forefront of the "War on Terror". We can't be, we don't have the ****ing money because the Government is too concerned with bean counting. Give us the money, give us the kit!! There's plenty of money to go around, it's just that too much is wasted on **** like the Olympic bid, or paying ministers in pointless PC jobs in the government.

[martinexsquaddie]

personally i belive geoff hoon is a brave and inspireing leader but they only let me use green ink here rofl wanker

[globe]

Old news but ...

Soldier's widow praises Bush
The widow of the first British soldier killed in Iraq has backed George Bush's plans to visit families of other victims.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/3272343.stm

[ArmedPacifist]

Old news but ...

Soldier's widow praises Bush
The widow of the first British soldier killed in Iraq has backed George Bush's plans to visit families of other victims.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/3272343.stm

Where exactly does she praise him?

[DeltaWhisky58]

We have some of the best armed forces in the world today, yet our government continues to commit them to conflicts without properly equipping them for the task.

It's a great shame that the size of Tony Blair's ego so outweighs that of his cheque book.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

We have some of the best armed forces in the world today, yet our government continues to commit them to conflicts without properly equipping them for the task.

It's a great shame that the size of Tony Blair's ego so outweighs that of his cheque book.

Ya us Canadians can say the same about our troops. In Afghanistan one of the leading commanders actually voiced his opinion saying that they are so under-funded in A-stan that it would be a miracle to stay till next summer...

I only shudder to think of what equipment they dont have....

[redhawk_six]

We have some of the best armed forces in the world today, yet our government continues to commit them to conflicts without properly equipping them for the task.

It's a great shame that the size of Tony Blair's ego so outweighs that of his cheque book.

Ya us Canadians can say the same about our troops. In Afghanistan one of the leading commanders actually voiced his opinion saying that they are so under-funded in A-stan that it would be a miracle to stay till next summer...

I only shudder to think of what equipment they dont have....

Desert Camo, that's about it... Some of our troops still have the OD vests and old body armour, but other than that, they have all they need, with the exception of a better amoured light vehicle... Plus, front line recce units have already gotten their CADPAT ARs in A-Stan, and I've even seen a pic where it appeared one soldier had CADPAT AR body armour. There are, no doubt, a few other things they could use though... But they all have enough armour, that's what counts the most.

[Argyll]

I also think that "Tone" has to hold his hands up in this debacle too,after all he was the one who sents ill-equiped troops into battle in the 1st place,the Army like all establishments in the UK falls under the HSE,and it is law tp provide "Due Care"to it's employee's,by not providing the neccesary PPE it has failed to provide this care,if a corporation failed to provide the neccesary kit to it's employess,that MD can face a jail sentance for "corporate manslaughter".....not a white wash within the Labour Government......it is scandelous.and heartbreaking,and the Government wants to cut spending,our Soldiers are frankly not equipped for 21st Centuary warfare,and that is disgusting!!
Hoon and Blair should get the boot for gross negligence!!

[Royal]

Much as I agree with you, I don't want President Blair to go (yet).

If Blair went, Brown would become President ;) , and if you think things were bad just wait - he would crucify the MoD with cuts. I shudder even to think about it :(

[fantassin]

From this morning "The Times"


Hoon sorry for solider death in equipment row
BY PA NEWS



Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, today said he was "extremely sorry" that a British soldier shot dead in Iraq did not have the right body armour.



Private tapes recorded by Sergeant Steven Roberts to his wife Samantha days before his death have revealed that the British solider was forced to hand in his protective armour due to an equipment shortage.



The 33-year-old sergeant was serving with the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment when he was killed in so-called friendly fire near Al Zubayr, southwest of Basra on March 24 last year.



Mrs Roberts, 32, who was handed the tapes at her husband’s funeral, said she had opted to make them public to highlight the plight of soldiers.



She has accused Mr Hoon of having “blood on his hands” and said her husband died in Basra because he had been forced to hand back the body armour that could have saved him.



Both she and the Conservative Party have called on him to quit over the equipment blunder.



“Steve died because of a kit shortage. How many more men have to die before this is a major issue?," she said.



On one tape, recorded three days before Sergeant Roberts was shot, he said troops were not getting the equipment they had been promised.



"We have now got absolutely nothing. It is disgraceful what we have got out here," Sergeant Roberts said in his audio diary.



But Mr Hoon, already under severe pressure over his role in the outing of weapons expert David Kelly, who committed suicide, said while he was extremely sorry for the equipment problems but he would not stand down.



“I think it is important that we await the result of the thorough investigation that is going on into the circumstances surrounding Sergeant Roberts’ death. I don’t believe we should prejudge that inquiry,” he told BBC Radio.



He said he had met with Mrs Roberts on several occasions and was prepared to talk with her again.



"I am extremely sorry that Sergeant Roberts died, and I'm extremely sorry that the families of another 55 men are mourning their losses as a result of operations in Iraq," he said.



"I am also extremely sorry that Sergeant Roberts did not have the enhanced body armour."



The Ministry of Defence has acknowledged difficulties in ensuring front line forces received equipment supplies, and the Conservative Party said body armour would have saved the

33-year-old.



“I do not think there is any greater dereliction of duty for any government than to send men into battle without the proper equipment,” Michael Howard, the Conservative leader said.



“That is clearly what happened here, we know it is what happened, we know that the probability is that Sergeant Roberts would not have been killed if he had had body armour.”



A pathologist's report found that the bullet would have been stopped by a specialist body vest, which had ceramic plates to cover the heart and aorta.



A report from the National Audit Office in December found that British troops were sent ill-equipped to Iraq.



The NAO said that while the logistics effort had been successful overall, the means of tracking supplies had been ineffective.



Before Sergeant Roberts left for Iraq, he and his wife went shopping in Britain and spent almost £1,000 on equipment he feared the military might not provide like tents, torches and suitable boots.



“If we’d known then what we know now, we would have bought a flak jacket as well,” she said.



Sergeant Roberts told his wife in the crackly tape: “It’s disheartening because we know we are going to war without the correct equipment and it fills me with a bit of remorse really and I think remorse is the right word.”



In his last audio message to his wife, he said: “I love you so much and I will speak to you when I can, probably tomorrow. I love you lots. Sleep tight. Bye.”

[Argyll]

I have to agree with you Royal!
Brown is another ringpiece!!And will seek to cut funding even more.
As for Hoon,I'm sorry but saying sorry just doesn't cut it with me,nor any other Ex Forces in the UK,the man is a grade 1 sphincter,and he should resign immediately!

[DeltaWhisky58]

To clarify - by getting rid of Tony - I would anticipate replacement of the entire government by one from the other (i.e. officially further to the right) side ;)

[Hydro]

the man is a grade 1 sphincter,and he should resign immediately!


Grade 1 sphincter, lol. I love it!

[CX20]

To clarify - by getting rid of Tony - I would anticipate replacement of the entire government by one from the other (i.e. officially further to the right) side ;)

At least the other side would be an overall better option for our armed forces and emergency services.

It always makes me laugh when a certain other party criticises the government over troops being ill-equipped and not enough money spent on them. If that party got into power, they would cut our forces to the bone and neglect them, make no mistake.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

This neglect of the UK armed forces by successive governments is a recurring theme, and I do not think a change in government will make any difference the current Tory shadow cabinet are a bunch of bean counters as well, the old school Tory who valued sovereignty and a strong defense are now long gone and have been replaced by accountants and failed commodity brokers who would be glad just to get one term so that they could make a quick pound on the side and land a couple of nice non executive positions.
Screw Labour and the Tories I will be voting SNP next time around as usual, I must admit though the Tories had entertainment value there was always one of them getting caught with a prostitute or found hanging dead from the ceiling dressed as woman with a Satsuma in his mouth.

[Argyll]

;) I like Satsuma's

[Roger Rabbit]

Wasn't there a male transvestite Tory prime minister in the 80's?

[He219]

Lack of equipment or funding for kit is one thing. The sad part about this story is that Sergeant Steve Roberts was ordered to hand back his body armor. The issued kit could have saved his life. Why was he ordered to hand it back? I would like to know the circumstances for this decision.

It is always a tradjedy when someone is killed in the line of duty.

RIP and my condolences to Mrs. Roberts.
:(

[Argyll]

IIRC he had to hand it to the Infantry as they too had insufficient BA,it's pretty disgusting sending troops to war without the neccesary kit!!

[martinexsquaddie]

the kit was probably in theatre sitting in an ISO somewhere because there was'nt enough time to sort everything out.
Because Blair left it too late to get the troops out to kuwait in enough time to get it all together

[Chris1]

He had CBA, he did not have the plates.
The report indicated that from where he had been hit, if he had been wearing the plates he would of survived.

Martin is spot on from what I've heard
Millions of £ spent getting the kit in theatre to sit in an ISO container for the duration.

[marktigger]

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/01/week_2/16_kit.html

I had no weapon,ammo,body armour or plates,desert boots,desert combats,morphine,atropine,cipro,anti malarials.

and this is when i crossed into Iraq.

Answer when we left UK you'll get it in theatre.

the descision to go was left far to late and yes the kit got to theatre but there wasn't the time to sort it out.

[fantassin]

From the BBC, January the 16th;

Q&A: Equipping the armed forces
Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon is facing increasing pressure to resign over the death of a British soldier in Iraq who had been forced to give away his body armour.
Sgt Steve Roberts was shot dead as he tried to quell a protest - a Ministry of Defence report showed a flak jacket could have saved his life.

The BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams takes a closer look at the issues surrounding equipment supply in the armed forces.


Q: Is it usual for all soldiers to be issued with full body armour?

A: Enhanced Combat Body Armour (ECBA) is not currently standard personal issue, but there are some observers who believe it should be.

This would make it the personal responsibility of each soldier to ensure they are protected and should, in theory, avoid situations in which one set of soldiers is forced to hand over their jackets to another group.

The Ministry of Defence ordered adequate supplies of ECBA for the Iraq operation (Operation Telic) but the National Audit Office found in December that "insufficient numbers were distributed in theatre.

This was largely as a result of difficulties with "asset-tracking and distribution".

Asset tracking - military jargon for knowing where all your equipment is at any one time - has been identified as one of the major problems experienced by the military during the war in Iraq.

Q: Are UK soldiers frequently asked to give up their body armour, or other equipment, to colleagues?

A: Commanders on the ground have to make decisions based on a whole range of factors, including operational timetables and equipment available.

Shortages of ECBA meant that priority was given to "dismounted infantry", rather than tank crews.

Q: Is there any kind of defence that Geoff Hoon can mount against his critics?

A: Mr Hoon's defence is based on the fact that, by common consent, Operation Telic was a major success.

Independent confirmation of this is contained in the NAO report, which concluded that "personnel and equipment performed impressively", and described the huge logistics effort as a "success", despite problems with asset tracking.

Had the problems been as acute as critics have suggested, he might argue, then British forces might have suffered greater losses.

To date, the death of Sgt Roberts is the only casualty known to be linked to problems with equipment or supply.

There may be others, but no similar stories have yet emerged.

Q: What does this case mean in terms of the MoD's planning and stockpiling of equipment?

A: Despite the message of overall success, the tragedy of Sgt Roberts highlights a number of fundamental problems.

Senior military chiefs have admitted that the operation was threatened by the late arrival of equipment.

General Sir John Reith, the chief of joint operations, told the Defence Select Committee last year that "we came perilously close".

Critics argue that a policy of "just in time" (ordering equipment for specific operations, rather than the traditional stockpiling of stores, known as "just in case") means that problems of supply are inevitable.

Add to that the fact that, for political reasons, the key decisions about the operational budget were not taken until mid-December, and the breathless speed with which the Iraq operation was put together becomes apparent.

The Americans, meanwhile, had been building up their men and equipment for months.

Q: Can Mr Hoon come out of this latest scandal in one piece?

A: Taken by itself, the Roberts affair would not appear to be a resigning matter.

Shortages are a fact of military life and soldiers always complain that they do not have enough.

Geoff Hoon is a successful Defence Secretary with four years of service, a loyal Blairite who enjoys respect in the Ministry of Defence.

But as MPs wait for Lord Hutton to publish his conclusions into the circumstances surrounding the death of the Government scientist, Dr David Kelly, Mr Hoon looks vulnerable.

His precise, lawyerly demeanour and apparent inability, or unwillingness, to show a personal side, are not public relations assets, and make him an easy target for critics looking for someone to blame. [/quote]

[fantassin]

From the BBC, January the 16th;

Q&A: Equipping the armed forces
Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon is facing increasing pressure to resign over the death of a British soldier in Iraq who had been forced to give away his body armour.
Sgt Steve Roberts was shot dead as he tried to quell a protest - a Ministry of Defence report showed a flak jacket could have saved his life.

The BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams takes a closer look at the issues surrounding equipment supply in the armed forces.


Q: Is it usual for all soldiers to be issued with full body armour?

A: Enhanced Combat Body Armour (ECBA) is not currently standard personal issue, but there are some observers who believe it should be.

This would make it the personal responsibility of each soldier to ensure they are protected and should, in theory, avoid situations in which one set of soldiers is forced to hand over their jackets to another group.

The Ministry of Defence ordered adequate supplies of ECBA for the Iraq operation (Operation Telic) but the National Audit Office found in December that "insufficient numbers were distributed in theatre.

This was largely as a result of difficulties with "asset-tracking and distribution".

Asset tracking - military jargon for knowing where all your equipment is at any one time - has been identified as one of the major problems experienced by the military during the war in Iraq.

Q: Are UK soldiers frequently asked to give up their body armour, or other equipment, to colleagues?

A: Commanders on the ground have to make decisions based on a whole range of factors, including operational timetables and equipment available.

Shortages of ECBA meant that priority was given to "dismounted infantry", rather than tank crews.

Q: Is there any kind of defence that Geoff Hoon can mount against his critics?

A: Mr Hoon's defence is based on the fact that, by common consent, Operation Telic was a major success.

Independent confirmation of this is contained in the NAO report, which concluded that "personnel and equipment performed impressively", and described the huge logistics effort as a "success", despite problems with asset tracking.

Had the problems been as acute as critics have suggested, he might argue, then British forces might have suffered greater losses.

To date, the death of Sgt Roberts is the only casualty known to be linked to problems with equipment or supply.

There may be others, but no similar stories have yet emerged.

Q: What does this case mean in terms of the MoD's planning and stockpiling of equipment?

A: Despite the message of overall success, the tragedy of Sgt Roberts highlights a number of fundamental problems.

Senior military chiefs have admitted that the operation was threatened by the late arrival of equipment.

General Sir John Reith, the chief of joint operations, told the Defence Select Committee last year that "we came perilously close".

Critics argue that a policy of "just in time" (ordering equipment for specific operations, rather than the traditional stockpiling of stores, known as "just in case") means that problems of supply are inevitable.

Add to that the fact that, for political reasons, the key decisions about the operational budget were not taken until mid-December, and the breathless speed with which the Iraq operation was put together becomes apparent.

The Americans, meanwhile, had been building up their men and equipment for months.

Q: Can Mr Hoon come out of this latest scandal in one piece?

A: Taken by itself, the Roberts affair would not appear to be a resigning matter.

Shortages are a fact of military life and soldiers always complain that they do not have enough.

Geoff Hoon is a successful Defence Secretary with four years of service, a loyal Blairite who enjoys respect in the Ministry of Defence.

But as MPs wait for Lord Hutton to publish his conclusions into the circumstances surrounding the death of the Government scientist, Dr David Kelly, Mr Hoon looks vulnerable.

His precise, lawyerly demeanour and apparent inability, or unwillingness, to show a personal side, are not public relations assets, and make him an easy target for critics looking for someone to blame.

[Argyll]

Geoff Hoon is a successful Defence Secretary with four years of service, a loyal Blairite who enjoys respect in the Ministry of Defence.


Aye but the Armed Force all think he's a ****,and so doe's half the country!!..........he's a total moron,who will fall like a sack of **** in the next 3 weeks........hopefully!