why not make iraq our sister nation in democracy

[warchild1/27scout]

what do some of you poly sci majors think about a huge public relations coup to make iraq our sister nation in freedom and ally ourselves with them.kind of like france did to us in the revolutionary war for our freedom.wev could win economically and politically and it might help with the whole arabs hate america thing.it would show we're not there for just our gain but we want to reach out for friendship to the islamic world.

[Vance]

Well, we need to let the Iraqi people decide their own government....even though I hope it will be a democracy

[JTFazz]

I know this will start an argument, but you did ask for the Poly Sci majors. I have a master of political science, so hear goes.

First of all, as many people don't realize because of media laziness, the United States is not a democracy. It is a republic. There are differences between the two.

A Republic is representative government ruled by laws, in our case the Constitution. A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority. A Republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals while democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs.

That is why we elect a representative government to carry out our individual views. Our republic is based on the values of democracy, but because we elect individuals to represent us in policy decisions, we have a republic.

If we voted on every law, ordinance, treaty and policy, then we would be a democracy.

Benjamin Franklin was asked what type of government we had upon the passage of the constitution. He replied, "A republic, if we can keep it." You will also note that in the Pledge of Allegiance, there is only mention of the republic and not the democracy.

This is one of the most misunderstood things about our system of government. It is democratic when you use that as an adjective, but not a democracy.

[NotoriousTFB]

That's right, why not go serious imperialism and make Iraq "The United States of America #2"

[Duke]

Democracy means rule by the people. The USA is a democracy, however, we have a unique system of government called a federalist republic. The government consists of several layers, federal, state, and local. At each level there's is some type of input from the people. For example at the local level and more often that the other two, we have direct input from the people (DEMOCRACY) in referendums. This is where the people or the masses propose a law and later vote for its passage into law. So, JTF I'm suprised you didnt know we did actually have some degree of direct participation from the people.
I gotta go but Ill be back tommorrow so comment, Im confused on all your points. For example, both a republic and democracy have the dilemma of "Majority rule and minority rights". Thats a Lockian point of view of the "Bill of Rights". comment... [/quote]

[JTFazz]

I do know that. I try to simplify and boil things down. It is a representative democracy as I indicated, but didn't provide a road map. What percentage of congressional acts, state legislative bills, city council ordinances and government policies have you voted on, Duke? Of the literally thousands of bills introduced into Congress and state legislatures the past session, I don't think I voted for a single one. As for referenda, it varies by state, but most that citizens vote on state by state are amendments to state constitutions. Local referenda are the most likely to be voted on. But, unless you are going to the polls every week, you are not voting for every piece of legislation at every level.

If you read closely, I inidcated we elect people to represent our interests... I said views, perhaps a poor choice of words. None the less, democracy is rule by the people, decisions by the majority. Some political scientists call democracy mob rule, but I'm more idealistic than that.

There are certainly more poor than rich, more ugly than attractive and more dumb than smart. Can you imagine a country where the masses vote on every single solitary decision? Maybe it would be like mob rule.

[Vance]

Now Im confused about what type of government the US has. Democracy? Republic?! Federal Republic?!! Representative democracy?!!!?! WHICH ONE AHHHH!!

[Seiyuuki]

We have a Democratic Republic

[papabear]

One needs to make a distinction between who rules and legislates, and how the ruler(s) is selected.

[papabear]

The USA is a democracy, however, we have a unique system of government called a federalist republic.

No doubt if there are any states' rights advocates out there, they would disagree on whether we could characterize the current system as "federal." Afterall, from their point of view there was a war waged disputing precisely this point, or at least the direction the federal government was headed.

[Duke]

JTF I was just busting your balls.

[JTFazz]

JTF I was just busting your balls.

So that is what I felt down there.... ;)

[EliteWolf]

if we made iraq a sister of america or anything like that, the arab world would look at us as invaders instead of liberators, which is not what we neeed right now.

[trmst]

Who gives a crap what other nations think of us. They need to care what WE think of them. There is no need to try and be loved, they should respect and in some cases fear us.

[papabear]

Who gives a crap what other nations think of us. They need to care what WE think of them. There is no need to try and be loved, they should respect and in some cases fear us.

And you don't think Yoda was right when he said "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"--especially if suffering is not limited to the one who fears, but is also inflicted upon the one who inspired the fear in the first place?

It's a good thing our diplomats don't have the mindset you're advocating.

[Glass1]

:D

[Knave]

Besides, who's to say that Iraq will develop institutions that are exactly like the ones in the United States? That's doubtful.....

[trmst]

And you don't think Yoda was right when he said "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"--especially if suffering is not limited to the one who fears, but is also inflicted upon the one who inspired the fear in the first place?

It's a good thing our diplomats don't have the mindset you're advocating.

You want me to take advice from Yoda? rofl
If you came upon a wolf in the woods would you attack it? Certainly not, you are too afraid to. As a german proverb says: Fear makes the wolf bigger than he is. Appeasing nations do not cause them to hand over their anthrax and VX. Speaking soflty and carring a big stick may sound...sound, but that may just be our failure to what perpitulated the Osamas and Attas. The Un has been speaking too softly for decades. The dont cause progression, only stasis. How many have died because nations turn to them to get justice. Innocents die while they debate and their only tool is sanctions? They would have no stick if not for us. Last time I checked there arent any football tems with :D on their helmets.

[papabear]

I don't know how one is supposed to respond to a wolf--fear is the natural response or emotion--the question is, what action does it lead to? Will I use my fear to fight the wolf and be aggressive, or run away? Both are possibiltities. Just because one has fear does not necessarily mean that one will cower in the face of an opponent.

The UN does what it does because it has no real authority. The U.S., on the other hand, does have authority to deal with other sovereign countries, and the power to back it up. How it deals with other countries is a question of diplomacy and governed by tact.

The point is, the longer the US plays up its image of the world's "only superpower" the more people will pay attention to what we do in order to judge what our intentions are, and then respond accordingly. (In which case we really need to be careful with the image we present.)

[kris]

Thought I would add onto this old post, for anyone who's interested, read the article "A Republic, if you can keep it."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2000/11-06-2000/vo16no23_republic.htm
Excellent article!!!

[martinexsquaddie]

trmst
well you may be able to cower every other country or not
Did'nt work so well against north vietnam Did it?
Or much use against terrorists especially if thet don't care if they live or die
Plus have you Heard of Golbalization. Going to be hard to do business if everybody hates or fears the US.
Most of the rest of the world thinks George Bush is already an Idiot.
Personally I'don't think he's as stupid as he appers But I do belive his neo conservative world view is blinkered and unhelpful.
It always suprises me that the US the last superpower elects presidents who are not good on world affairs. Its not like you can shut the door on the rest of the world.