SIG pistols which armed forces use them?

[marktigger]

Ok so far have seen
Canadian P225's
UK P226,P228,P229
NZ P226?

so what other militaries have them and any pics?

[Haiw]

I've seen pictures and heard of the P226 being in use with the BBE (CT-team), but the standard army sidearm is the Glock 17.

[Ian H]

The US uses the P228 for people who need something smaller than the M9, investigators and the like I think. They call it the M11.

[[AFSOC]]

CAnadian Forces use the 225

[Jeval]

US SEALS use P226

[new zealander]

yes the new zealand armed forces do u the p226

[[AFSOC]]

I saw that JTF2 video, and it looks like one of the guys is using a GLOCK..not sure

[Beowulf]

Not really an armed force, but if I remember correctly the FBI guys have SIGs
-b

[ogukuo72]

Aren't FBI's new issue, a Glock in 0.357 SIG calibre?

BTW, the Singapore Armed Forces adopted the P226 in 1986.

[Beowulf]

Aren't FBI's new issue, a Glock in 0.357 SIG calibre?

BTW, the Singapore Armed Forces adopted the P226 in 1986.
I don't know...I did some work with the FBI a while back and they had Sigs at the time...
-b

[Haiw]

The feds finally starting to crack down on pole-smoking? ;)

[mustamato]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0010/30/30s16efterlyst38.jpg

The swedish police has SIG´s as their standard issue sidearm.

[Upfrontreporting]

http://www.flv.dk/billeder/Glock_01.jpg

Glock 20 (10mm) used by Danish Siriuspatruljen and Station Nord as a selfdefence weapon against polarbears.

The "Siriuspatruljen" patrols the northern parts of Greenland in two man teams an dog-sleds.
The "Station Nord" is a base placed 81°36' North 16°40' west. only 933 km from the Northpole.

http://www.aquatex.dk/images/siriuspatruljen-i-sne.jpg

Siriuspatruljen

http://www.fsnvaer.dk/St.Nord/Billeder/Hundetårn.jpg

Station Nord

regards.

[Gringo]

Woohoo! Go Glock! YEAH!

[mustamato]

Woohoo! Go Glock! YEAH!

When the swedish military was in Congo in the 50´s the soldiers complained about the "lack of punch" in the issued 9 mm rounds. Hence m/39b was introduced, it is more powerfull (It goes through 50 layers of kevlar or 20 cm of wood or 7 cm of brick.) The swedish armys Glock 17 can take the "kick" without breaking the gun, the police´s SIG´s can not which has been found out when police officers has been training with it (I think the swedish army donated some million rounds to the police). The m/39b is still usefull with the police MP5 though.

[fantassin]

France's Gendarmerie, Police and Customs have ordered a first batch of 60,000 SIG PRO 2022. A total of about 220,000 is supposed to be ordered.

The Gendarmerie is part of the Armed Forces and the GIGN has used P228 for a long time.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Mark.Tigger said:


UK P226,P228,P229

OK, we've got SiGs in UK-service with SAS, SBS, RMP CP teams, RAFP CP teams, RM Police troop CP teams.............who else, and which variants? 14 Int. Coy. perhaps.

Also what other UK military handguns except BHP and Walther PPk?

[marktigger]

one of my mates got to chance to compare the glock and sig 226 with the Browning when he was in Bosnia. He hated the Glock didn't like its layout and lack of 'proper' safeties. Have heard the PSNI are having major problems with ND's and the Glock and know a few guys who are very reluctant to do the conversion and hand in their ruger revolvers.
My mate also disliked the sig complaining it was to heavy.

[marktigger]

CP teams in Iraq had 229's
heard hereford like the 226 and had problems with 228

[mustamato]

France's Gendarmerie, Police and Customs have ordered a first batch of 60,000 SIG PRO 2022. A total of about 220,000 is supposed to be ordered.

The Gendarmerie is part of the Armed Forces and the GIGN has used P228 for a long time.

I know that the french MP5F is designed for a more powerfull 9 mm cartridge. And as I mentioned in my previous post the swedish police Sig-Sauers has been cracking while training with the powerfull swedish army m/39b-ammunition. So will the french issue a powerfull round to the MP5F and use ordinary ammo in the Sig-Sauers?

[MolliG]

The Swiss armed forces of course use the SiG P226 and the old P210 (retired now I believe). :)

[BOB1]

They also use the P226/P228

[Gringo]

one of my mates got to chance to compare the glock and sig 226 with the Browning when he was in Bosnia. He hated the Glock didn't like its layout and lack of 'proper' safeties. Have heard the PSNI are having major problems with ND's and the Glock and know a few guys who are very reluctant to do the conversion and hand in their ruger revolvers.
My mate also disliked the sig complaining it was to heavy.

The only time the Glock can fire is when u put the finger on the trigger. So the only time an ND can happen is when you pull the trigger! So, as long you don't put your finger on the trigger it's safe. I think the Glock is good as it's simple. Safety's on the trigger, mag release catch and slide release catch. No need for decockers and safety catchs.
Of course that is your mates opinnion.

[Mr. Nielsen]

The danish army, air force and navy have been using the SIG P-210 since 1949 as the model m/49. It is reported as being of very good quality and very precise. But its major disadvantage is that the magazine only holds 8 rounds.

Naval special forces are now using a 9 mm H&K pistol I believe, and I think that the army Special Operations Forces are switching gun as well. The navy's sledge patrol Sirius in Greenland, as reported earlier in this thread, switched to a powerful Glock in 10mm Auto.

http://www.flv.dk/billeder/Nehuausen_01.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/dkhuntercorp/p210.jpg

http://www.hok.dk/foto/albums/userpics/10001/normal_03-0626_IRAK1__6559.jpg

[Red]

Some nigeria units use the Sig p226 but i was issued a Browning .45HP.

[mustamato]

one of my mates got to chance to compare the glock and sig 226 with the Browning when he was in Bosnia. He hated the Glock didn't like its layout and lack of 'proper' safeties. Have heard the PSNI are having major problems with ND's and the Glock and know a few guys who are very reluctant to do the conversion and hand in their ruger revolvers.
My mate also disliked the sig complaining it was to heavy.

The only time the Glock can fire is when u put the finger on the trigger. So the only time an ND can happen is when you pull the trigger! So, as long you don't put your finger on the trigger it's safe. I think the Glock is good as it's simple. Safety's on the trigger, mag release catch and slide release catch. No need for decockers and safety catchs.
Of course that is your mates opinnion.

Exactly. For us lefthanded it´s a pain in the ass to have all those things put there for righthanded anyway, especially since the Glock´s safety make them unnecessary. In example the Finnish Army (the other branches has Glock) is in the process of changing their Brownings to Walther P99´s. And guess what kind of safety this have...

http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/dad/images/misc/p99.jpg

[kutter]

The JGSDF has also been using the P220 for quite some time now.
http://www15.tok2.com/home/lttom/military-powers_jgsdf/shokaki/pistol/military-powers_sigp220-p003.jpg

[marktigger]

who else have had roblems with the glock and ND's
royal protection squad
SO19
various armed response units on mainland police forces.

Glock was trialled for uk forces for CP use and was rejected in favour of the sig.

Its not only your finger that can end up on a trigger. Some of the PSNI ones have been people mucking about.

[Gringo]

Interesting. As far as I'm awarre, the SIG doesn't have a Safety catch either. :|

[MolliG]

They have decockers (the 'slidey' lever above the mag' release) and automatic firing pin safeties.

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/P225/controls.JPG

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/P226/P226controls.jpg

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/SIGPro/controls.jpg

:)

[MolliG]

The JGSDF has also been using the P220 for quite some time now.

The JASDF and JMSDF, use them also. The Nihon Rikujyo Jieitai ones have the 'flower' stamping, the Nihon Kaijyo Jieitai, the flower with an anchor, and the Nihon Koku Jieitai, the flower with wings. They're also licensed produced than simply bought.

:D

[Gringo]

They have decockers (the 'slidey' lever above the mag' release) and automatic firing pin safeties.

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/P225/controls.JPG

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/P226/P226controls.jpg

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/SIGPro/controls.jpg

:)
I know, but it does not make the pistol fully safe. If it is in the decocked position, you can still pull the trigger and the pistol will fire (as long as it's cocked)

[fantassin]

The Danish Army uses the SIG P210 (or was still using them last time I met them!)

The US Marshall uses SIG P220

[marktigger]

screamingeagle how can it be cocked if you have used the decocking lever to lower the hammer and disengage the firing pin?

I have actually used a glock and didn't paricularly like it.

[Upfrontreporting]

wrong posting..

[Upfrontreporting]

The danish army, air force and navy have been using the SIG P-210 since 1949 as the model m/49. It is reported as being of very good quality and very precise. But its major disadvantage is that the magazine only holds 8 rounds.


Man how could I forget that, I've been issued with that pistol. As Mr. Nielsen said it's a good quality pistol, although a crappy mag. capacity.



regards.

[Gringo]

screamingeagle how can it be cocked if you have used the decocking lever to lower the hammer and disengage the firing pin?

I have actually used a glock and didn't paricularly like it.

The hammer isn't cocked, so it's in double-action right? And if the weapon has got a round in the chamber, and in double-action, the pistol can still be fired.

[DeltaWhisky58]

screamingeagle how can it be cocked if you have used the decocking lever to lower the hammer and disengage the firing pin?

I have actually used a glock and didn't paricularly like it.

The hammer isn't cocked, so it's in double-action right? And if the weapon has got a round in the chamber, and in double-action, the pistol can still be fired.

But the hammer can be manually cocked from safe, thus necessitating a de-cocking lever. Therefore the SiG pistols can be fired single or double action on the initial shot whether from an already-loaded pistol (i.e. drawn from a holster) or from one freshly loaded. In many ways this is similar to the situation long-known in D/a pistols - Walther, Beretta, CZ etc.

[Loco]

Spanish Guarcia Civil, a police with militar regulation, recently have replaced all their Star pistols models with berettas m-92 for patrolling guardias, and SIG for officers, I suppose the SIG must be a compact model because officers carried Star Firestar, a compact and light pistol.
Information taken of AA,
http://www.b2g2.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1074115621&user=FAS

[fantassin]

I know that the french MP5F is designed for a more powerfull 9 mm cartridge. And as I mentioned in my previous post the swedish police Sig-Sauers has been cracking while training with the powerfull swedish army m/39b-ammunition. So will the french issue a powerfull round to the MP5F and use ordinary ammo in the Sig-Sauers?


The French gendarmerie had the same problems with the MAS G1 (Licence built Beretta 92F) when they used SMG rounds in them. I have no infos on the rounds the Gendarmerie will use for its new SIG 2022 but I suppose they have taken those problems into considerations.

Here is the statement made by the FR MoD when they had to modify the MAS G1

TECHNICAL MODIFICATION OF THE M.A.S.G1 AUTOMATIC PISTOL.


The Minister of defence has just decided to bring a technical modification to all the M.A.S.G1 automatic pistols, main handguns on issue in the armed forces since 1989.

This decision follows three shoot incidents that occurred in 1994, 1999 and June, 2001, incidents resulting from a break of the breech sliding channel which fortunately had no serious consequences. Successive checks showed that no preventive control mechanism could definitely reveal the appearance of the metal weaknesses which were the cause of such incidents. So it was decided to proceed to a modification of the sliding channel back part in order to remove any risk resulting from the use of the weapon.

The modification works of all the 98 150 P.A.M.A.S.G1 on issue (including 85 000 in the Gendarmerie, 11 650 in the Air force, 950 in the army and 550 in the Navy) will last one year and three months. To avoid this measure reduces operational effectiveness of the units concerned, it was temporarily decided to replace the P.A.M.A.S.G1 by automatic pistols of M.A.C.50 type, handguns which were on issue before 1989 and which will be destocked in order to make the service go on.

To avoid any interruption in the performance of the armed forces duties and notably in the National Gendarmerie which is the main user of the P.A.M.A.S.G1, the withdrawal of this weapon will occur as far as it is concerned only when its personnel receive the duly verified P.A.M.A.S.50 pistol and have followed an adapted shooting training course. The complete range of the replacement operations should last two months.



BTW, the Gendarmerie should also procure around 22,000 HK UMP SMG in the very near future.

[Royal]

who else have had roblems with the glock and ND's
royal protection squad
SO19
various armed response units on mainland police forces.

Glock was trialled for uk forces for CP use and was rejected in favour of the sig.

Its not only your finger that can end up on a trigger. Some of the PSNI ones have been people mucking about.

The P226 is in service as the L105A1, the P226K is the L106A1 and the P228 is the L107A1. Having used the Glock (17 and 26) and the L105A1, as well as the L9A1, I prefer the L9 or the Glock. The L105 is too big to be comfortable (but I've got quite small hands). I really liked the simplicity of the Glock, but hated the fact that I couldn't accurately double tap (could never control the second round), so my choice is still for the L9A1 (BHP) or the L107A1.

I'm well aware of the ND issues with the Glock, but have never seen one and still struggle to understand how a trained Operator can have one without a major lapse of concentration. There have been some issues over the L017A1, but it is not a weapon that is issued often (or outside certain circumstances) and it's certainly streets ahead of the old PPK!

[mustamato]

BTW, the Gendarmerie should also procure around 22,000 HK UMP SMG in the very near future.

Ah thanks for the info fantassin about the cracking handguns, and by the way it´s nice to hear that the UMP gets its real first costumer now (excluding small SWAT-unit that has just bought small numbers). I mean, does a MP5 have any advantage over a UMP, and if so, is the disadvantage big enough to not be filled up with the advantages anyway? Well, anyway it always take a first big costumer to get things rolling...

[Thorpe]

The Irish Defence Forces are set replace the aging Browning Automatic Pistol with the Sig P226, provided the government release the correct amount of funds needed for the program.

[marktigger]

Royal P226k???? do you mean the P229 which is the smaller version.which is carried by the CP teams?

[Royal]

Royal P226k???? do you mean the P229 which is the smaller version.which is carried by the CP teams?

No, I mean the P226K.

Re: your PM, yes, that's the same I've heard, although in my limited exposure, I've never seen the problem.

[marktigger]

http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/classic-compact.asp
http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/classic-full.asp
http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/sigpro.asp

Royal am now extremley confused according to sig site no such thing as P226K. Except this is somethung special ordered by HMG or modified b HM forces

[Ian H]

Whilst I have no practical experience with guns I've read that some of the royal protection squad ND's have been whilst the officer was cleaning his weapon. I wanted to point out that in order to take the slide off a Glock you must pull the trigger, which could lead to a discharge, but only if you were stoned or something and forgot to clear the chamber, so I don't understand it either. Still, its some info no-one's mentioned yet.

[Royal]

http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/classic-compact.asp
http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/classic-full.asp
http://www.sigarms.com/le-military/sigpro.asp

Royal am now extremley confused according to sig site no such thing as P226K. Except this is somethung special ordered by HMG or modified b HM forces

I'm assuming it's a special order, I don't think it's an in-house job. The L106A1 is pretty much identical to the L105A1, but has a shorter slide. Again I'm assuming that the K is for Kurz (or short, if my German serves me) as in the HK designations.

[marktigger]

i know the PSNI is issuing 2 types of glock 1 for big hands 1 for ickle ones.
and the US military has issued the P228 for the same reason. I actually have some difficulties with the browning due to the size of my hands. So the 226 is more awkward than the Browning?

[Royal]

So the 226 is more awkward than the Browning?

IMHO, but there are plenty of people who would disagree with me. Part of it may also be the 'old dog, new tricks' thing (I'd go back to the L1A1 given half a chance ;) ).

[TriggerPuller]

The Danish Army uses the SIG P210 (or was still using them last time I met them!)

The US Marshall uses SIG P220 Not the FAM's.

TP

[marktigger]

one of my mates worked in one of the Multinational HQ's in Bosnia and got a Multinational Range day he said the P226 was uncomfortably heavy but prefered it to the Glock the dutch had. He did like the German pistol.
The Browning is ok it still works and I've been quite happy with it over the years. I would be happier if I could get more range time with it.

Maybe they should go back to the old system where officers could purchase their own pistols just resrtict the calibre to 9mm ;)

[fantassin]

The US Marshall uses SIG P220

Source: "Guns and weapons for Law Enforcement"

[TriggerPuller]

The US Marshall uses SIG P220

Source: "Guns and weapons for Law Enforcement" I have 3 bros that are FAM and all of them are issued the same handgun and it isnt the Sigp220.

TP

[ogukuo72]

i know the PSNI is issuing 2 types of glock 1 for big hands 1 for ickle ones.
and the US military has issued the P228 for the same reason. I actually have some difficulties with the browning due to the size of my hands. So the 226 is more awkward than the Browning?

I rather like the Walther 99 system where you can vary the size of the grip by swapping the back plate of the grip. If I'm not wrong, the new HK P2000 has a similar system.

[DeltaWhisky58]

I owned my own BHP 9mm in the late 70s/early 80s - well before the draconian restrictions came into force here in the UK. I have relatively small hands, but never found the BHP to be a problem. The Glock was not around then, but the early Sig-Sauers were and I always found the SiG grip to be more of a handfull. I found the .45 1911A1 to be too much of a handfull grip-wise.

[Chops]

Hey Royal, Trigger

How goes it? Been away a while but thought I'd drop in to add my tuppence to the SIG question. AFAIR, the 226K was a shortened slide version (inch and a bit) manufactured and adopted by certain undercover brothers in NI mid late eighties before the 228 had come on stream. Not sure if it's been retired these days as am way out of the loop on such matters. Sorry I can't add more but pretty sure the K suffix was an unofficial one.

Personally I like the 226 and the plastic fantastic but then again I've got big ass hairy paws ;) (most of the hair's on the palm..). Only BHPs I've used have been Inglis (?) manufactured clapped out old dears and thus never really endeared themselves.

rgds

C

[Royal]

Chops,

Good to see you back mate. I didn't think the L106A1 went back quite that far, but I was crawling around in a ghillie suit at the time so pistols weren't of much interest ;)

They are certainly still in a couple of armskotes I can think of, but the L107A1 is the weapon of choice...

[Chops]

Ghillie? Jeez mate you weren't one of Mark Spicer's mob were you?! He was always bleating about combat pistol being in the primary skillset for the gentlemen shooters..

Good to be back but don't know how long for. Will drop in and say howdy from time to time. You well?

rgds

C

PS and I meant to mention the alarming number of NDs we had in Oz when NSWPF went over to the plastic fantastic. I seem to remember an SPG guy letting one go into his thigh as he reholstered on an indoor course... All down to training x3. Same as NDs on the F88...

[ChuckThunder]

Not really an armed force, but if I remember correctly the FBI guys have SIGs
-b

As do most DSS agents.