Army vs Marines

I'm trying to decide which to join after I'm done with my college. Can anyone tell me some good points about one that the other does not have? I've always had the hunch to be a Marine, I know some people who are Marines and I always say to myself, I wanna be just like them... But I also want to consider the Army and what it offers... I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines... Any comments would help me out a lot guys.. thanks. I want to be the best at what I do...

[Uncle Sam]

I think I've started something here...A Military advice column...

Check it : http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7474

Go, Air Force... :D

[garyfanclub]

I doubt it's easy to get into any special forces unit, be it Army, Navy, Marines or Airforce. I could never be a Marine, floating around on a ship for 6 months to a year would be hell.

[11F5S]

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

I should rephrase that, It seems that there are more special forces units available in the Army rather than the Marines?

[Merik]

If your wanting to compare services honestly you really can't since they all have different mission priorities, etc.

I always thought though that the only reason why I would ever want to be a Marine was because I wanted to fly the Cobra but other than that its Army all the way. Unless of course I could fly Tomcats or Hornets for the Navy ;)

[NcDeuce]

Army Army Army

[Vance]

Army Army Army

[Ratamacue]

Aussie Aussie Aussie...

[papasmerf]

I'm trying to decide which to join after I'm done with my college. Can anyone tell me some good points about one that the other does not have? I've always had the hunch to be a Marine, I know some people who are Marines and I always say to myself, I wanna be just like them... But I also want to consider the Army and what it offers... I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines... Any comments would help me out a lot guys.. thanks. I want to be the best at what I do...

Army Special Forces and the Marines is 2 different things FM, apples and oranges, Army SF is a unit, Marines is a branch of US military. My answer to your question would be depends what you want to do in the military. If you want to be an infantryman, sign up with the Marines, if you're more into SpecOps, go with the Army.

[papasmerf]

Oh, and no it's not easier to be in Special Forces, you can train few weeks and be a Marine, or you can train few years and you can be an Army SF.

[crazyman]

if you think youre just going to join any branch and waltz on into speical forces, concider this a wake up call. no matter what branch you look at, the failure rate for their special forces schools are all over 50%, to say the very least. if youre serious about joining the military, go talk to a recruiter about some REAL dreams, not little kid fantasies

[Dmitri]

I should rephrase that, It seems that there are more special forces units available in the Army rather than the Marines?Soooo...?? There is also more ppl in the Army, and consider this: there is only about 30% of hard-ass E-4 and above that make it through first 3 weeks (SFAS) in a year and a half course. Now compare it to whatever you want

[Dmitri]

Army Special Forces and the Marines is 2 different things FM, apples and oranges, Army SF is a unit, Marines is a branch of US military. My answer to your question would be depends what you want to do in the military. If you want to be an infantryman, sign up with the Marines, if you're more into SpecOps, go with the Army.
Sry man, but that is pretty stupid. Army has a crap load of infantry (much much more than spec ops if you didn't know), plus Rangers are infantry anyway, and SF is a combination of hard core Rangers and other infantries

[papasmerf]

if you think youre just going to join any branch and waltz on into speical forces, concider this a wake up call. no matter what branch you look at, the failure rate for their special forces schools are all over 50%, to say the very least. if youre serious about joining the military, go talk to a recruiter about some REAL dreams, not little kid fantasies


Failure rates are over 80%, if you look at the Navy, their SpecOps make up only .05% of their branch, I don't know know how many sailors there are in the Navy now. Army has approximately 485,000 and SpecOps make up only 4500 of that number, which is less then 1%. Because he considers SpecOps doesn't mean it's a stupid kid's fantasy, it's a fantasy now yes but if FM has enough motivation he can turn that fantasy into reality, with Army's 18X program for example. Good luck.

[Ratamacue]

Didn't we have a thread just like this a few weeks ago?

[papasmerf]

Army Special Forces and the Marines is 2 different things FM, apples and oranges, Army SF is a unit, Marines is a branch of US military. My answer to your question would be depends what you want to do in the military. If you want to be an infantryman, sign up with the Marines, if you're more into SpecOps, go with the Army.
Sry man, but that is pretty stupid. Army has a crap load of infantry (much much more than spec ops if you didn't know), plus Rangers are infantry anyway, and SF is a combination of hard core Rangers and other infantries

Right, I just said it based on my personal opinion that Marines make better infantryman then the Army, and when I'm saying infantryman, I'm talking about the regulars, not Rangers. But yea you made a good point, Rangers are infantry too (except they belong to SpecOps) and they are great.

[Argyll]

Well I read on another forum that one of the 18x programs going into phase 2 or it maybe 3 had an 80% pass rate,some of the 18x guys are also awaiting their shipping orders,so that would mean this program started in 2002 or there abouts

Oh and Papa I don't think a Marine will like being called an Infantryman!!
A Marine is a Marine
Army is Infantryman...........pedantic maybe.........but be prepared to get the preverbial earache from former Marines!!

[papasmerf]

Well I read on another forum that one of the 18x programs going into phase 2 or it maybe 3 had an 80% pass rate,some of the 18x guys are also awaiting their shipping orders,so that would mean this program started in 2002 or there abouts


link?

[Dmitri]

Well I read on another forum that one of the 18x programs going into phase 2 or it maybe 3 had an 80% pass rate,some of the 18x guys are also awaiting their shipping orders,so that would mean this program started in 2002 or there about
Well, if phase 2 is referred to as SFQC, than from SF ppl that I talked to, there aren't many ppl who fail that, as its mainly a learning phase instead of selection. But no way 80% of them make through SFAS. If most experienced ppl with time to prepare can't make it, how can privates and specialist straight from basic do it?

[MarineSniper8541]

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

11F5S.....what a crock of **** you have just stated.

A person joining the Army has a FAR better chance of getting into a special operations unit than someone joining the Marines. Not only do we have FAR LESS units and personel in them, but the process of making it into a special unit is totally different than in the Army. Hell, even if a Marine gets selected...his unit doesnt even have to let him go if they dont want to.

[Jack Mehoff]

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

11F5S.....what a crock of **** you have just stated.

A person joining the Army has a FAR better chance of getting into a special operations unit than someone joining the Marines. Not only do we have FAR LESS units and personel in them, but the process of making it into a special unit is totally different than in the Army. Hell, even if a Marine gets selected...his unit doesnt even have to let him go if they dont want to.

Let's do some math, shall we? Just because Army have more special ops doesn't mean it's easier to get in.

Army have 500,000 members
USMC have 100,000 members

Get the the number of Army special ops (SF and Rangers) divide by 500,000. Get the number of USMC special ops and divide by 100,000

waadaaaaa!!

[papasmerf]

Well I read on another forum that one of the 18x programs going into phase 2 or it maybe 3 had an 80% pass rate,some of the 18x guys are also awaiting their shipping orders,so that would mean this program started in 2002 or there about
Well, if phase 2 is referred to as SFQC, than from SF ppl that I talked to, there aren't many ppl who fail that, as its mainly a learning phase instead of selection. But no way 80% of them make through SFAS. If most experienced ppl with time to prepare can't make it, how can privates and specialist straight from basic do it?

80% of them passed Phase II, Individual Skill training, which is included in SFQC, but there is still MOS training, Collective Training, Language Training, SERE Course, and then Live Environtment Training. So by the time these guys get to LET, most of them will be gone already.

[papasmerf]

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

11F5S.....what a crock of **** you have just stated.

A person joining the Army has a FAR better chance of getting into a special operations unit than someone joining the Marines. Not only do we have FAR LESS units and personel in them, but the process of making it into a special unit is totally different than in the Army. Hell, even if a Marine gets selected...his unit doesnt even have to let him go if they dont want to.

Let's do some math, shall we? Just because Army have more special ops doesn't mean it's easier to get in.

Army have 500,000 members
USMC have 100,000 members

Get the the number of Army special ops (SF and Rangers) divide by 500,000. Get the number of USMC special ops and divide by 100,000

waadaaaaa!!

Marines have 173,000. I don't know about Army's Rangers and their numbers, but I'm positive that there are 4500 active duty Green Berets and 2200 Navy SEALs. I don't have any information about Force Recon.

[Argyll]

I just sent Papa the link
In this forum if I'm reading it correctly the guy who posted is an Instructor on the SFAS ,and he said they had an 80% selection rate for that 18X group.
Phase 2 is the SFQC right enough,this is where you get your MOS ,is that right?You select the MOS and train over the next 12-16 months to get that MOS,you US blokes should know more about this than I

[papasmerf]

I just sent Papa the link
In this forum if I'm reading it correctly the guy who posted is an Instructor on the SFAS ,and he said they had an 80% selection rate for that 18X group.
Phase 2 is the SFQC right enough,this is where you get your MOS ,is that right?You select the MOS and train over the next 12-16 months to get that MOS,you US blokes should know more about this than I

Yea in MOS training you're instructed on your speciality skills, the duration if it? Beats me.


http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=ab6197000d5153fef9b9364fa9a6a7e4&threadid=32497 thats the link that Argyll sent me.

[Dmitri]

In this forum if I'm reading it correctly the guy who posted is an Instructor on the SFAS ,and he said they had an 80% selection rate for that 18X group.
Well, I have an ex-SF guy in my unit who also served as an instructor for several years, and also a guy that went there a year ago and was non-select. Oh my god, he is still so ripped from all the train-up, he could easily wear cup "B" on his breasts. It is pretty hard to believe that a ripped E-5 couldn't make it, but a guy from basic could. It just doesn't make sense.

[garyfanclub]

Marines make better infantry than the Army? Where'd you get that from? I'd say that any infantryman the from the 82nd, 101st, 3rd, 25th, 4th or 10th Mountain or any other army unit, is just as good as any Marine trigger-puller.

[papasmerf]

Marines make better infantry than the Army? Where'd you get that from? I'd say that any infantryman the from the 82nd, 101st, 3rd, 25th, 4th or 10th Mountain or any other army unit, is just as good as any Marine trigger-puller.


I said based on my opinion, I'm sorry if I'm wrong, that's just what I've been hearing.

[Argyll]

Well Dmitri you need to start believing because there are guys coming out of that program as E-5's,from civvy street to Special Forces in less than 3 years with no military experience for most of them.!!

[Dmitri]

Well, pretty interesting threat, but it said "SF class", which doesn't mean SFAS, could be a part of SFQC or pre-SFAS course that 18x go through

[Dmitri]

Another thing is
This last SF class had better than an 80% select rate for 18Xs.

It was a bit chilly, but they had a day of no scheduled training for Thanksgiving and excellent lunar illumination during land nav.

I don't think there are any "off" days in SFAS, especially for Thanksgiving, that really sounds like the "pre" course.

[papasmerf]

The bottom line is, less then 20% of the trainees will actually make it through the entire SF course, so there.

[Argyll]

Dmitri you also gotta remeber this is a new type of selection,now in every cadre the group is called Class,it's the same as BUD/S,they are still called class,so why would guys on SFAS not be called class too?

[papasmerf]

Dmitri you also gotta remeber this is a new type of selection,now in every cadre the group is called Class,it's the same as BUD/S,they are still called class,so why would guys on SFAS not be called class too?

Because 18x-ers are in 18x class, others aren't. I read somewhere 18x guys train seperately from the others for some time, I don't know, more info needed. Where is D? p-)

[Scrim]

11F5S wrote
You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.
Oh yeah that makes real sense, when you can walk right into the Army Recruiters office and sign up for the 18X program your always babbling on about. What a crock of ****, and you know it. How about spouting off some usefull knowledge for a change, I know you have it.

[11F5S]

It is pretty hard to believe that a ripped E-5 couldn't make it, but a guy from basic could. It just doesn't make sense.

a. SF isn't about being "ripped".

b. It doesn't make sense to you because you really don't have a clue about what it takes to make a good SF trooper, it does however make sense to the powers to be at USASFC. SF has successfully trained entry level soldiers into competent SF'ers for the majority of its existence (approximately 38 out of 52 years).

[11F5S]

I heard it is easier to get into Army's Special Force units rather than the Marines...

You have been fed a line of el toro poo poo. If you are looking for the easier way then head on down to your local USMC Recuiting Office.

11F5S.....what a crock of **** you have just stated.

A person joining the Army has a FAR better chance of getting into a special operations unit than someone joining the Marines. Not only do we have FAR LESS units and personel in them, but the process of making it into a special unit is totally different than in the Army. Hell, even if a Marine gets selected...his unit doesnt even have to let him go if they dont want to.

Hold on jarhead....read the question slowly.

1. He said "Army Special Forces unit." not "Special Operations "unit or "special" unit That limits it to 7 SFG's (5 AD, 2 NG).

2. He said Marines not a specific unit in the USMC.

3. The USMC is looking for a ****pot full of more recuits then US Army SF is.

I stand by my original answer.

[FuturePara]

I understand that the 80% number of 18X SFAS graduates is true. The reason being they are all put through what is called SOPC(?) or the Special Operations Prepartory Course. This a course that prepares them for SFAS. 80% of the guys you successfully make it through this course make it through SFAS. I think that's what I've picked up anyway. There was a lot of talk about this on SOCNET. However, I also understood SOPC was going to be folded into SFAS. I don't know if that has happened yet. 11F5S or Deut please advise on this.
Question for 11F: When were the years of these 38 years of entry training? I wasn't aware it's been going on for so long. When did the 18X option come in to exsistence and how/when was this entry level training conducted prior?
Thank you.

[ibstolidude]

Army Special Forces and the Marines is 2 different things FM, apples and oranges, Army SF is a unit, Marines is a branch of US military. My answer to your question would be depends what you want to do in the military. If you want to be an infantryman, sign up with the Marines, if you're more into SpecOps, go with the Army.
Sry man, but that is pretty stupid. Army has a crap load of infantry (much much more than spec ops if you didn't know), plus Rangers are infantry anyway, and SF is a combination of hard core Rangers and other infantries
What is that description of the Special Forces again?

[Argyll]

I see you made "friends" over at SOCNET Dmitri!!

[Dmitri]

What is that description of the Special Forces again?What I meant was that mainly, but now always, people that are in SF are prior combat arms, which includes Rangers and other airborne, light and mechanized infantry. Any more questions??? :backhand:


I see you made "friends" over at SOCNET Dmitri!! LOL, I checked out that link, and thats a pretty good forum there. You go there a lot Argyll? Anyway, since there are so many high-speed folks there, I just wanted to ask on that particular issue, but obviously Reaper thought that I was some other dude trying to get in the forum and start trouble again..
whatever :cantbeli:

[MarineSniper8541]

I dont know what the selection rate is for the Army SF or SEALs but I can personally vouch for the fact that the selection rate for both Bn. Recon and Force is about 1% of those that even complete the indoc.

Also, I never said it was EASIER or HARDER between the other branches and the Corps...just making a statement that it is equally as tough. All branches have their own selection process, their own missions and support roles. The selection processes for each are tailored specifically toward those standards. I dont think a fair comparison can be made on which is "easier".

I just wanted to inform 11F5S that his post was not very well worded.

[Dmitri]

selection rate for both Bn. Recon I didn't know Bn. Recon had selection...Could you describe it? My uncle was in it a while back, he just said he unintentionally got there, and didn't mention any selection process. But that was during the Vietnam era[/code]

[Dmitri]

Bn. Recon and Force is about 1% of those that even complete the indoc.
Don't mean to be picky, but do you mean that after indoc (which is the hardest part, right?) only 1% make it?

[NcDeuce]

Sry man, but that is pretty stupid. Army has a crap load of infantry (much much more than spec ops if you didn't know), plus Rangers are infantry anyway, and SF is a combination of hard core Rangers and other infantries

Umm...you should go to Benning and say that to a 75th SGM...then go take a trip to one of the SF Groups if you still have legs.

The 75th Ranger Regiment is not your common infantry unit. Research their training/weapons/abilities/missions/who they fly with/who they deploy with/etc.

[Dmitri]

Umm...you should go to Benning and say that to a 75th SGM...then go take a trip to one of the SF Groups if you still have legs.
Damn, whats up with all this picky ****!!! :bash: Are you trying to say the are NOT infantry??! What is their MOS do you think? And you have any better thoughts about SF? Start listening better at your ROTC classes.

[Vance]

Rangers are ELITE infantry. Not just regular infantry.

[NcDeuce]

Not the MOS, you schmuck.

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/gulf_war_2_iraqi_freedom_army_infantry_divisions/airport2.jpg


http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/gulf_war_2_iraqi_freedom_army_infantry_divisions/airport11.jpg


http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/gulf_war_2_iraqi_freedom_army_infantry_divisions/infantry80.jpg


http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/ussocom_training/a_sft01.jpg


http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/ussocom_training/19a14.jpg


http://images.janes.com/defence/land_forces/gallery/fortbragg/images/14a20.jpg


http://www.ranger.org/images/photoGallery/2002/AmerLakeDZ98.jpg


Rangers are ELITE infantry. Not just regular infantry.


The 75th Ranger Regiment is not your common infantry unit. Research their training/weapons/abilities/missions/who they fly with/who they deploy with/etc.

See the difference?

[garyfanclub]

:backhand:

I love know-it-all's. I feel your pain TF160.

[Dmitri]

Listen, both of you forts probably never even seen Rangers, or been to Ft. Benning, so start telling me about military WHEN you join. I'm almost in the LRS unit myself, most of people out there ARE rangers.
In the conversation I never said Rangers are not elite or not some of the best INFANTRY units in the world, in the context I counted them as INFANTRY (which they are) when we were talking about army and marine ground troops. If you can't understand something as simple as that then you have some major thinking problems.

[Argyll]

What is the MOS of a Ranger and that of an Infantryman,to that of an Airborne Infantryman(such as the 82nd/101/173rd)?
The 75th are classed as SOF are they not because of their roles/and Missions etc?

[Dmitri]

From what I understand the main core of the regiment consists of 11 series MOS, mainly 11B, with "V" identifier. Is that not right? They don't have to change their MOS like SF to 18 series, they just add skill identifiers to 11 series.

[Argyll]

so in a technical sense based on the MOS then Rangers are classed as Infantry,along with guys in like 3/4 ID,and to those in the Airborne regiments?
But it is just the role in which the DOD employs the Rangers that make them a little more unique,and hence their SOF status?

[Dmitri]

It is the EXTRA schools, skills and identifiers that make them SOF. Do you not agree that they are (besides medics, support etc.) 11 series?

[Argyll]

Well if their MOS says 11,then that makes them infantry yes!
I really cannot see what all the fuss is about?

[garyfanclub]

Listen, both of you forts probably never even seen Rangers, or been to Ft. Benning, so start telling me about military WHEN you join. I'm almost in the LRS unit myself, most of people out there ARE rangers.
In the conversation I never said Rangers are not elite or not some of the best INFANTRY units in the world, in the context I counted them as INFANTRY (which they are) when we were talking about army and marine ground troops. If you can't understand something as simple as that then you have some major thinking problems.

Having a RANGER Tab and being a Ranger are two different things. What LRS unit did you say you were in?

[Dmitri]

Well if their MOS says 11,then that makes them infantry yes!
I really cannot see what all the fuss is about?I cannot either. TF160 was trying to tell me that Rangers are not infantry, I was just trying to say that 11 series is still infantry, one way or another.

Having a RANGER Tab and being a Ranger are two different things. What LRS unit did you say you were in? I didn't say I was in, I'm in the process of selection. I already had interviews with their whole chain of command, and now I gotta go to Benning, as they going to be jumping, and take a PT test with them. But the unit is Company H (LRS) (ABN), 221st MI, Ft. Gillem, Ga
But I can answer to you in the similar fashion as TF160, go and tell those guys that they are not rangers, and I hope you can make it back home

[crazyman]

ok, just to end this craziness. the ranger batts are infantry. the full name of the unit is 75th infantry regiment, Airborne Rangers. theyre a highly specialized light infantry force. Although they are a part of SOCOM, if you ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya they are an infantry unit. unique? yes, but still infantry. if ya dont believe me, go on over to Ft. Benning or Ft. Lewis and go on and ask 'em. As far as the follow on schools, sorry to break it to ya, but there are plenty of ppl out there who have been to all those fun places like air assault, pathfinder, ranger school, etc. if you need any more proof, there are plenty of troops out there who have moved in and out of the rangers at various times, switching between them and the various other infantry units out there, mainly the light ones. If they aren't infantry, then why do troops switch into and out of the 75th just like any other infantry unit?

[Dmitri]

Thank you crazyman, about time someone chipped in.
garyfanclub:

I love know-it-all's. I feel your pain TF160.I love them too :petting:

[Uncle Sam]

What is the MOS of a Ranger and that of an Infantryman,to that of an Airborne Infantryman(such as the 82nd/101/173rd)?
The 75th are classed as SOF are they not because of their roles/and Missions etc?

My MOS is/was 11B1V : 11B Infantry, 1 : Rank E4/Corporal(P), V : Ranger Parachutist.

Someone who has not went through Ranger school would have an MOS like 11B1P or 11M2P, the P being Parachutist. The number ie. 1 or 2 etc.. is your Rank. It's really supposed to be like 10 = E1-E4, 20 = E5-whatever..and so on...Most people leave out the zero on the end...like me 11B1V... woot

[Haiw]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...

[11F5S]

ok, just to end this craziness. the ranger batts are infantry. the full name of the unit is 75th infantry regiment, Airborne Rangers.

Excuse me but it's 75th Ranger Regiment...it's been that way since 1986.. prior to that there were Ranger Co's. and Battalions IE: 1st Ranger Infantry Battalion WWII); 2nd Ranger infantry Co. (Korea); Co F (Ranger) 75th Infantry, 25th Infantry Divison (Vietnam).

[11F5S]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...


You mave have a 140-150 IQ but you sure are fuggen ignorant. Put your head down on your desk and go back to sleep.

[Uncle Sam]

11F5S...That's like Vietnam era MOS right?

[11F5S]

From what I understand the main core of the regiment consists of 11 series MOS, mainly 11B, with "V" identifier. Is that not right? They don't have to change their MOS like SF to 18 series, they just add skill identifiers to 11 series.

Son you really ought to do a bit of basic research before engaging your jaw/keyboard.

The SQI "V" ("G" in case of legs) denotes "Ranger Qualified" ( completed Ranger School) it doesn't mean one is a Ranger nor is it required to serve in the Ranger Regiment unless one is an NCO or an O.

You are correct, there isn't an CMF for the Rangers. There are a wide range of MOS's in the Ranger Regiment. IE: 11C; 13F etc.

[Dmitri]

Which part exactly was wrong?

The SQI "V" ("G" in case of legs) denotes "Ranger Qualified" ( completed Ranger School) it doesn't mean one is a Ranger nor is it required to serve in the Ranger Regiment unless one is an NCO or an O.


From what I understand the main core of the regiment consists of 11 series MOS, mainly 11B, with "V" identifier. Is that not right? They don't have to change their MOS like SF to 18 series, they just add skill identifiers to 11 series.
Since I was talking about the regiment, naturally this applied to it.

[11F5S]

The number ie. 1 or 2 etc.. is your Rank. It's really supposed to be like 10 = E1-E4, 20 = E5-whatever..and so on...Most people leave out the zero on the end...like me 11B1V... woot

The "1" Signifies Skill Level and is a single character in the MOSC (mos code) it isn't followed a zero. The MOS 11B1O* 11=CMF-11/ "B" = Infantrman/ "1" = Skill Level (Rank E1-E4)/ SQI "O"* = No Special Qualifications)

* "O" is the alpha character o, never a zero.


11F5S...That's like Vietnam era MOS right?

Affirmative

[Dmitri]

"O"* = No Special QualificationsWhat are the special qualifications supposed to be? Example?

[Argyll]

Damn this MOS stuff is confusing!!

[Uncle Sam]

The number ie. 1 or 2 etc.. is your Rank. It's really supposed to be like 10 = E1-E4, 20 = E5-whatever..and so on...Most people leave out the zero on the end...like me 11B1V... woot

The "1" Signifies Skill Level and is a single character in the MOSC (mos code) it isn't followed a zero. The MOS 11B1O* 11=CMF-11/ "B" = Infantrman/ "1" = Skill Level (Rank E1-E4)/ SQI "O"* = No Special Qualifications)

* "O" is the alpha character o, never a zero.

Well, I was close. I knew it was something like that...I'm not an MOS guru, like you. ;)

[Uncle Sam]

"O"* = No Special QualificationsWhat are the special qualifications supposed to be? Example?

ex. 11B1"O" letter not number... :D

No Airborne school "P"
No Ranger school "G" or "V"
etc...

Right 11F5S

[Dmitri]

The number ie. 1 or 2 etc.. is your Rank. It's really supposed to be like 10 = E1-E4, 20 = E5-whatever..and so on...Most people leave out the zero on the end...like me 11B1V...
Oh, you said that you left out "zero" at the end, so I thought there is some other kind of qualification symbol. Then I thought how can someone who have been through Ranger, Airborne and SERE schools still have "o" as identifier... rofl Got you now

[Uncle Sam]

I'm not the expert on MOS's that's 11F5Ss' mission. :)

[NcDeuce]

Listen, both of you forts probably never even seen Rangers, or been to Ft. Benning, so start telling me about military WHEN you join. I'm almost in the LRS unit myself, most of people out there ARE rangers.

I used to live at Fort Benning for almost 10 years.

As far as I know, cadets are only offered Airborne and Air Assault training in summers.


If they aren't infantry, then why do troops switch into and out of the 75th just like any other infantry unit?

From what my father says. it is TOUGH work to stay in the 75th Ranger Regiment for years and years. That is why many of them are young men with healthy legs. You see many guys running around with tabs but few have the scroll.

[Argyll]

Question for the "cadets"?
If you do these courses,does that make you exempt from doing them ,when you enlist in the Full time service?
I take it that these "cadets" are also studying to be officers? or enlisted men?which would it be?
What exactly is the purpose of the "cadets"?

[Haiw]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...


You mave have a 140-150 IQ but you are sure are fuggen ignorant. Put you head down on your desk and go back to sleep.
It was the way I always read it...but feel free to correct it... :roll:

[11F5S]

Question for the "cadets"?
If you do these courses,does that make you exempt from doing them ,when you enlist in the Full time service?
I take it that these "cadets" are also studying to be officers? or enlisted men?which would it be?
What exactly is the purpose of the "cadets"?

A cadet is a individual in one of the military academies or in college ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Program) that leads to a Commission.

Yes they are exempt from taking the course over.

[California Joe]

I'd imagine it's like going to Sandhurst in the UK right?

[11F5S]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...


You mave have a 140-150 IQ but you are sure are fuggen ignorant. Put you head down on your desk and go back to sleep.
It was the way I always read it...but feel free to correct it... :roll:

Get off your lazy ass and learn to do your own research ...genius

[Haiw]

I did..hence I got to that conclusion. 75th is in SOCOM right? (that's what those command structure graphs tell me) and it's always referred to as light infantry and doesnt fulfill all the roles to lable it as SOF. Now either the info I read was screwy or you're wrong, but either way, instead of shouting from the high horse could you then PLEASE enligthen me on the subject?

[crazyman]

rotc produces officers for the US army. if you go to airborne, aaslt, that qualification carries through into your career as an army officer. used to be that cadets could go to ranger before they went to NALC ( 5 week rotc version of OCS) but too many got hurt, and had to be held back in school because they could not complete nalc. and yes, the army MOS system is something indeed.

[Argyll]

So the guys in ROTC can do pretty much all their training from there?
Where do the go from ROTC?To a Military Academy or to a unit?
How long do they do in ROTC/Academy?
This is pretty interesting,especially the MOS Mumbo Jumbo!!

[Merik]

They end up going to AIT Argy. Depending on what field they go into Advanced Individual Training will prep them for it.

[crazyman]

no, we do not go to AIT. im just finishing off the whole rotc process, so maybe i can help ya out. rotc is available at a few thousand colleges nationwide. just about any area you can think of, there is a college with an rotc program nearby. after rotc, the newly minted 2Lt's to to the OBC (officer basic course) of their chosen branch. in my case: FA. AIT is for enlisted soldiers. training in rotc is done during the school year via weekly 2 hour "labs", day long training on weekends, and 3-4 day FTX's each semester. NALC (national adv. leadership course) is a 5 week summer training event in Ft. Lewis WA. every single rotc cadet goes through ft lewis, usually the summer after their Jr. year. non-govt schools such as VMI are also present. NALC is a graded event which directly affects your ability to choose your branch. following NALC, most (not all) cadets go home for sr. year, during which they are branched and recieve their first duty assignment and OBC dates. following obc and any follow on training (abn, ranger, TACP, etc) the newly made Lt's go to a unit, whether it be active, reserve, or NG component.

[Ian H]

Question for the "cadets"?
If you do these courses,does that make you exempt from doing them ,when you enlist in the Full time service?
I take it that these "cadets" are also studying to be officers? or enlisted men?which would it be?
What exactly is the purpose of the "cadets"?

A cadet is a individual in one of the military academies or in college ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Program) that leads to a Commission.

Yes they are exempt from taking the course over.


I'd imagine it's like going to Sandhurst in the UK right?


No, Sandhurst is where people who have joined the army (as officers)are trained, not cadets who intend to join.
The rotc is similar to the University Officer Training Corps, which has branches from some services at some universities, ie. my uni only has an Army unit, which covers all of Wales, the Navy unit only covers South Wales, dunno about the RAF. You do training and stuff, but remain a student, and must still do the work.

[Sierra]

Its a HUGE commitment and I think you need to do what you want to do!

[11F5S]

Question for 11F: When were the years of these 38 years of entry training? I wasn't aware it's been going on for so long. When did the 18X option come in to exsistence and how/when was this entry level training conducted prior?
Thank you.

From the start in 1952 to about 1987/88 and the 18X began in 2001.

The delivery method for SF training changed constantly through the years as it continues to do so today.

Well it's time for some sacktime....later

[ibstolidude]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...

Whaaaaa?

[ibstolidude]

"O"* = No Special QualificationsWhat are the special qualifications supposed to be? Example?

there are different MOS identifiers:
ASI identify specialized skills, qualifications, and requirements closely related to and are in addition to those inherent to the MOS.
for instance:
F7 Pathfinder
2S Battle Staff

SQIs are authorized for use with any MOS and skill level character, unless otherwise specified, to identify special require ments

for instance"
H = Instructor,
P = Airborne( well parachutist)
S = SOF support people
L = Linguist (although Language also get added to the end.)
O = No Special Qualifications
These occupy the 5th position in the MOSC

you can look up the rest

[NcDeuce]

no, we do not go to AIT. im just finishing off the whole rotc process, so maybe i can help ya out. rotc is available at a few thousand colleges nationwide. just about any area you can think of, there is a college with an rotc program nearby. after rotc, the newly minted 2Lt's to to the OBC (officer basic course) of their chosen branch. in my case: FA. AIT is for enlisted soldiers. training in rotc is done during the school year via weekly 2 hour "labs", day long training on weekends, and 3-4 day FTX's each semester. NALC (national adv. leadership course) is a 5 week summer training event in Ft. Lewis WA. every single rotc cadet goes through ft lewis, usually the summer after their Jr. year. non-govt schools such as VMI are also present. NALC is a graded event which directly affects your ability to choose your branch. following NALC, most (not all) cadets go home for sr. year, during which they are branched and recieve their first duty assignment and OBC dates. following obc and any follow on training (abn, ranger, TACP, etc) the newly made Lt's go to a unit, whether it be active, reserve, or NG component.

^ Word

The rise of cadets is making it more and more difficult to enter in a branch one would like...and also active duty slots are limited. :| Gotta make the grades!

[Haiw]

Ranger is in SOCOM but it ain't SOF...

Whaaaaa?
Okay since I apparently got it all wrong...I'm sorry. I musta read it wrong somewhere or anything. Now could please anyone correct me where I'm wrong?

[Salty Dog]

why have the 18x program at all?

[California Joe]

Cause they are desperately short on spec ops types and believe it or not there are some tough, very intelligent civilians out there with the types of skills that may come in handy to the military if used correctly.

[Dmitri]

Lets say you have some civillian dude that is smart and tough as a rock. Why would he or army want him to waste several years trying to make rank high enough to try out when they can just put him right in, and then if he makes it he will have plenty of years to give to SF because he is so young

[ibstolidude]

The number ie. 1 or 2 etc.. is your Rank. It's really supposed to be like 10 = E1-E4, 20 = E5-whatever..and so on...Most people leave out the zero on the end...like me 11B1V...
Oh, you said that you left out "zero" at the end, so I thought there is some other kind of qualification symbol. Then I thought how can someone who have been through Ranger, Airborne and SERE schools still have "o" as identifier... rofl Got you now
Because like wearing specific badges they are catagorized, you may only wear a specfic number of each cat...the MOSC is similiar
There is an order of precedence for the ASI & SQI as there is for Language identifiers... you do NOT have the freedom to choose your ASI SQI directly...and SERE does not have an ASI or SQI.

In the case of 11B1VO that means SQI "V" and NO ASI. but lets us this example

22X4PF7RU =22X = MOS (? made up ), 4 = skill level (rank), P= parachutist SQI, F7 = Pathfinder ASI, RU = russian language DLPT


I'm no 71L but not knowin this is like not knowing your job title in a civillian job, although I can certainly understand peoples confusion.
People who make it up through the ranks should have atleast a basic understanding of their MOSC and the ability to find the answeres pertainging there to. I'm not insulting someones ability to do their job, but there is more to leadership than applied combat skills. regardless of your MOS / unit. If you are a junior NCO / enlisted I can understand.

[Argyll]

Is there somewhere on the net that gives a complete rundown of the MOS system,cause it looks like algebra to me and is very confusing,thank God we Brits kept it simple!!

[Jack Mehoff]

Here you go

http://www.goarmy.com/jobs/index.htm

[Uncle Sam]

Is there somewhere on the net that gives a complete rundown of the MOS system,cause it looks like algebra to me and is very confusing,thank God we Brits kept it simple!!

You know I've looked for sites, but they only tell half of what you want to know.

[California Joe]

I'm a 1084. That's my civilian series. Don't tell anyone though.

[TriggerPuller]

What is that description of the Special Forces again?What I meant was that mainly, but now always, people that are in SF are prior combat arms, which includes Rangers and other airborne, light and mechanized infantry. Any more questions??? :backhand:


I see you made "friends" over at SOCNET Dmitri!! LOL, I checked out that link, and thats a pretty good forum there. You go there a lot Argyll? Anyway, since there are so many high-speed folks there, I just wanted to ask on that particular issue, but obviously Reaper thought that I was some other dude trying to get in the forum and start trouble again..
whatever :cantbeli: The Reaper is a personal friend of mine,if he had reason to give you **** Iam sure it was warranted. Iam one of the authorized personell there,voted in by my peers according to my background(DD214). It is a place for former and current BTDT's to excahnge ideas, advice and remember the good times. if you have not been in the service it can be a good place to learn and listen. It is not for a FNG to come in and spout an opinion on something he has no clue about other than some SpecOps book. It is a completely different animal than over here. Just a little advice.

Dmitri, you dont happen to be FOW do you?

TP

[11F5S]

why have the 18x program at all?

If you took a few moments and thought about it even the a still wet behind the ears kid you are should be able to figure that out on your own.

Why does the USMC need to spend money advertising the fact that is looking for a few ( in reality it's more than a few ) good men.

There is more than one reason for the 18X enlistment, however the primary one was that with the downsizing of the US Army the pool of candidates became too small to yield enough soldiers who could meet the criteria proven necessary for SF.

Possible solutions were to:

1. Lower the standards.
2. Recruit from the civilian population.

The choice was a no brainer. Number one would be flirting with disaster in the long run for SF, while choice number two had a proven track record of success in the past.

[Argyll]

and also those who fail the 18x get moved to understrength units,to bolster the regular infantry!.........as far as I'm aware,someone with more knowledge will correct this if it's wrong

[11F5S]

and also those who fail the 18x get moved to understrength units,to bolster the regular infantry!.........as far as I'm aware,someone with more knowledge will correct this if it's wrong

True Argyll, however the 18X concept comes from SF not from US Army Rucruiting. SF isn't even one iota concerned about the manning needs of the rest of the Army....The programs only purpose was to attract enough candidates to fill shortages in SF......the fate of the unsuitables isn't a concern of USASFC.

[11F5S]

Is there somewhere on the net that gives a complete rundown of the MOS system,cause it looks like algebra to me and is very confusing,thank God we Brits kept it simple!!

Argy,

I took a few moments and looked it up for you. The first one will explain the system...the 2nd one gives the coding details


If that doesn't across the pond let me know and I'll try to find another door in for you,

[Argyll]

it's a double edged sword,as the SF get their guys,and the Infantry get the drop outs!,and when I mean drop outs I mean trained guys ,just not SF materail,I'm not sure how big these enrolement classes are,but if there are typically 100 in each class,then 20% will make it into the teams,the rest will fill the empty slots required by whatever unit needs bolstered!

It's a very clever recruiting tool!!

[Argyll]

these links Jack and yourself posted are not working Gents!

[ibstolidude]

Is there somewhere on the net that gives a complete rundown of the MOS system,cause it looks like algebra to me and is very confusing,thank God we Brits kept it simple!!

Argy,

I took a few moments and looked it up for you.

https://141.116.59.209/PAMXXITemp/secured/mosstructure/mos-charts.asp

If that doesn't work for you let me know and I'll find another door for you,

11F5S
Do you know how many wannabe's you just gave the SQI of "T" to?

I can't wait to see them crawl out from all the stink holes in which they live.

[Argyll]

Whats that? the "T" thing?

[11F5S]

oops

[Argyll]

ah ,perhaps not something that should be posted on a forum then?

[Vance]

I'm a D-boy. Uh huh. Am too.

[11F5S]

I'm a D-boy. Uh huh. Am too.

Perhaps you are a ...Dumb Boy!

[Uncle Sam]

This could go on for days...

[Uncle Sam]

What I really wanted to be was a 42R9KT... :lol:

[Argyll]

What I wanted was a link that worked! ;)

[Dmitri]

The Reaper is a personal friend of mine,if he had reason to give you **** Iam sure it was warrantedYes, I've seen your post there. Here is the link to the thread, if you want to see exactly what was said:
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33242


That is something that me and you discussed before. Judge yourself, I didn't really mean anything negative, but the conclusion just naturally comes to mind.

Dmitri, you dont happen to be FOW do you?

Sry, could you explain FOW plz?

[Uncle Sam]

What I wanted was a link that worked! ;)

That link up there doesn't work for you ?? Check your security settings on your computer, it may be set to high.

[cut]

who's wining?

[TriggerPuller]

The Reaper is a personal friend of mine,if he had reason to give you **** Iam sure it was warrantedYes, I've seen your post there. Here is the link to the thread, if you want to see exactly what was said:
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33242


That is something that me and you discussed before. Judge yourself, I didn't really mean anything negative, but the conclusion just naturally comes to mind.

Dmitri, you dont happen to be FOW do you?

Sry, could you explain FOW plz? I cant get that link to work. Who did you post as overthere(screenname)?

TP

[Dmitri]

I posted as "Dmitri", go to the ARSOF recruiting page, its close to the top

[Dmitri]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I guess all the negativity comes from my topic, I guess I didn't think too much when I wrote it, but really all I wanted is to verify the info and see what was it all about.