PMC Sniper in Iraq

[kutter]

A video of some Blackwater contractors doing a little shooting in Iraq:
http://superbowl.ifilm.com/player/?ifilmId=2677403&pg=default&skin=default&refsite=default&mediaSize=default&context=product&launchVal=1&data=null&realId=2677403&bw=300&mt=QT
Just let the little Ifilm ad play at the end and then click on 'Mercenary Sniper in Iraq' on th right menu.

[Zlatko]

Awesome ****ing video.

But i wanted to see what he was seeing though.

[Macs.]

Hey, exactly that movie was posted here a week ago. :P

-> WWW.Militaryvideos.NET

[Marsuitor]

I don't see any merceneries in that video though...

[Enduring Freedom]

Very nice!

[Digital Marine]

PMC's

[Khabbi]

I don't see any merceneries in that video though...

yeah , prob should edit that

[kutter]

I don't see any merceneries in that video though...

yeah , prob should edit that

Yeah, I originally wanted to call the thread 'Blackwater in Iraq' but I figured I'll just stick with what Ifilm titled the video.

[Minjin]

Pretty sweet vid, the other thread wasnt working for me, so thanks. Seems to be a lot of rounds flying. Was that an illuminated scope? Looked like it had the illumination dial, but I could just be retarded.

[Macs.]

Well, I think the border between being a PMC and being a Mercenary is pretty small.

And I don't really see how that sniper is doing PMC work, for me it looks pretty "offensive" what he does.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my point of view. (And I know that all fire power which is avaiable needs to be used when the **** hits the fan.)

[ronin2172]

Well, I think the border between being a PMC and being a Mercenary is pretty small.

And I don't really see how that sniper is doing PMC work, for me it looks pretty "offensive" what he does.
Not trying to offend anyone, just my point of view. (And I know that all fire power which is avaiable needs to be used when the **** hits the fan.)
look up counter sniper

also if some body is planning to hit your building with an RPG it would be nice to have a trained sniper on the roof keeping an eye out...wouldn't it?

[Digital Marine]

Seems like the Mahdi Army was on an offensive move against the base.. so that would mean that they are returning fire, defending their perimeter.

[Marsuitor]

Well, I think the border between being a PMC and being a Mercenary is pretty small.

And I don't really see how that sniper is doing PMC work, for me it looks pretty "offensive" what he does.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my point of view. (And I know that all fire power which is avaiable needs to be used when the **** hits the fan.)


http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation_of_security.htm[/url]]
The definition as in Article 47 of the 1977 Additional Protocol 1 of the Geneva Convention (1949), classifies a mercenary according to the following criteria which all need to apply before an individual is defined as a mercenary

1. is specifically recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
2. does, in fact, take direct part in the hostilities;
3. is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that party;
4. is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
5. is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
6. and
has not been sent by a state which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of the armed forces (22,17).

From the above it is difficult to classify individuals working for a military company as mercenaries. As long as these companies and their clients word contracts in a manner that excludes them from the cumulative effects of Article 47, they will fall outside its definition (22,19).

Should hopefully bury this discussion once and for all.

[AlexNenadic]

Was that an illuminated scope?

That was a 3.5-10 M1 Leupold scope with an illuminated reticle.

[Stavka]

The definition as in Article 47 of the 1977 Additional Protocol 1 of the Geneva Convention (1949), classifies a mercenary according to the following criteria which all need to apply before an individual is defined as a mercenary

1. is specifically recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
2. does, in fact, take direct part in the hostilities;
3. is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that party;
4. is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
5. is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
6. and
has not been sent by a state which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of the armed forces (22,17).

From the above it is difficult to classify individuals working for a military company as mercenaries. As long as these companies and their clients word contracts in a manner that excludes them from the cumulative effects of Article 47, they will fall outside its definition (22,19).

[/quote]

Finally! Thank you.

[buckeyedoc]

Seemed as though he was putting a lot of lead downrange for just a sniper. That was a crap load of people to shooting at (not that it's not warranted, mind you). Awesome video. I, too, would like to see through his scope while he's shooting.

[Aerosoul]

I'll be honest. I enjoyed watching this.

:|

[Minjin]

Was that an illuminated scope?

That was a 3.5-10 M1 Leupold scope with an illuminated reticle.

Thanks, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

[Thor]

That scope is a great thingie

[Skullknight]

Well, I think the border between being a PMC and being a Mercenary is pretty small.

And I don't really see how that sniper is doing PMC work, for me it looks pretty "offensive" what he does.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my point of view. (And I know that all fire power which is avaiable needs to be used when the **** hits the fan.)


http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation_of_security.htm[/url]]
The definition as in Article 47 of the 1977 Additional Protocol 1 of the Geneva Convention (1949), classifies a mercenary according to the following criteria which all need to apply before an individual is defined as a mercenary

1. is specifically recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
2. does, in fact, take direct part in the hostilities;
3. is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that party;
4. is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
5. is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
6. and
has not been sent by a state which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of the armed forces (22,17).

From the above it is difficult to classify individuals working for a military company as mercenaries. As long as these companies and their clients word contracts in a manner that excludes them from the cumulative effects of Article 47, they will fall outside its definition (22,19).

Should hopefully bury this discussion once and for all.
Thanks for that. They're definitely considered mercs.

[Aerosoul]

by strict definition they are mercs, pehaps.

but everyone knows the connotation of someone being a mercenary. and thats why people shy away from using the word.

[WoodChipper]

He fired alot of rounds. 2 mags and did he hit anyone? I'm sure he would of said something. Cool video and all. He is by no means a Sniper. :bash:

[muede]

Yeah but i wouldnt go there (again :P), as these kids dont like when you say their merc is a one not to mention if omg you mention and this isnt whats sniping is about and that the rifle his using really aint suited to.. ;) :lol:

[Aerosoul]

He fired alot of rounds. 2 mags and did he hit anyone? I'm sure he would of said something. Cool video and all. He is by no means a Sniper. :bash:

I thought I heard the other guys telling him he "got 'em" several times. there were large groupings of guys, as heard by the spotter, and so i assume he did indeed grease a few.

[Lg6thUA]

He fired alot of rounds. 2 mags and did he hit anyone? I'm sure he would of said something. Cool video and all. He is by no means a Sniper. :bash:

Wow, your expertise overwhelms me. :cantbeli:

[Subliminal One]

Man, that guy cranked his elevation adjustment all the way down right in the middle of the firefight. Must have took him a while after that before he figured out where he was hitting.

[Fintin]

put 'bullet the blue sky' by U2 on that and you have a top notch mud marine video...

i was amazed at how still he is...

[ronin2172]

He fired alot of rounds. 2 mags and did he hit anyone? I'm sure he would of said something. Cool video and all. He is by no means a Sniper. :bash:

I thought I heard the other guys telling him he "got 'em" several times. there were large groupings of guys, as heard by the spotter, and so i assume he did indeed grease a few.
Yup, you can hear his spotter say he (and the other sniper) were hitting their targets.

Are you a sniper woodchipper? If so then illuminate us as to his lack of skill....if not shut up...

I don't think you have the time to make a precision shot in such circumstances with multiple moving targets shooting back at you.

I am so amazed at how matter of fact they were while the action was going on!

[Noob Brit]

The traditional meaning of a sniper is not only a skilled marksman but someone skilled in the art of fieldcraft, surveillance etc.. who can move into a position unseen, take out a enemy(s) with 1 round per target and extract himself undetected.

Maybe in this scenario, with someone hammering away from a barely concealed position on a rooftop, the term rifleman or sharpshooter would be better suited. The weapon doesn't make you a sniper and in the traditional sense, this wasn't sniping.

[digrar]

^ What he said, it's not the rifle that makes the sniper.

[Erik2a4]

Well, I think the border between being a PMC and being a Mercenary is pretty small.

And I don't really see how that sniper is doing PMC work, for me it looks pretty "offensive" what he does.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my point of view. (And I know that all fire power which is avaiable needs to be used when the **** hits the fan.)


http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation_of_security.htm[/url]]
The definition as in Article 47 of the 1977 Additional Protocol 1 of the Geneva Convention (1949), classifies a mercenary according to the following criteria which all need to apply before an individual is defined as a mercenary

1. is specifically recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
2. does, in fact, take direct part in the hostilities;
3. is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that party;
4. is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
5. is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
6. and
has not been sent by a state which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of the armed forces (22,17).

From the above it is difficult to classify individuals working for a military company as mercenaries. As long as these companies and their clients word contracts in a manner that excludes them from the cumulative effects of Article 47, they will fall outside its definition (22,19).

Should hopefully bury this discussion once and for all.
Thanks for that. They're definitely considered mercs.

:lol: Bwahahahahaha

Dude, your reading comprehension is an "F."

"All" refers to "all criteria". Thus, all of the above criteria must match for the said individual to be consider a mercenary.

I can break down the subject-object-verb structure of that sentence if necessary. Albeit, the sentence structure is a bit awkward. But, hey, that's lawyers for you.

Now, I'm not a Bush defender, but I hope this doesn't ruin those preconceptions about PMC not being called Mercs because of a US/Zionist takeover of the world. ;)

[dacanadianbomb]

lol, F for reading definately applies to that character.
Its strange cus only the people who dont seem to have a flying flick of clue about the whole thing, are the first ones to yell " merc! "
Its been proven here, time and time again on mp.net.

[AlexNenadic]

Was that an illuminated scope?

That was a 3.5-10 M1 Leupold scope with an illuminated reticle.

Thanks, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

Suddenly I feel appreciated. ;)

You are welcome.

[RFSU]

For all those who claim that a PMC is not a merc. You are idiots. Firstly there is nothing in that quote from the Geneva Convention which exempts them from being mercs and secondly, it is a very feeble mind that automaticaly labels a merc as a villian. Just because you are fighting for money does not mean you dont belive in the cause.

Oh and in the future why not take you deffinitions from the Oxford english.

[Erik2a4]

For all those who claim that a PMC is not a merc. You are idiots. Firstly there is nothing in that quote from the Geneva Convention which exempts them from being mercs and secondly, it is a very feeble mind that automaticaly labels a merc as a villian. Just because you are fighting for money does not mean you dont belive in the cause.

Oh and in the future why not take you deffinitions from the Oxford english.

You can't always use the dictionary definition because the dictionary doesn't hold weight in a court of law.

That's the reason for the name change on paper, while there is a vaild point for public-relations reasons.

[duck]

Amazing guy. p-) Flies in to a surrounded compound and stays remarkably cool in the face of almost certain death. And to the posters wondering why he shoots so rapidly: If you have a target in the crosshairs, you pull the trigger. Aiming longer is not going to make the shot more accurate as your breathing etc. will interfere.

[Marsuitor]

For all those who claim that a PMC is not a merc. You are idiots. Firstly there is nothing in that quote from the Geneva Convention which exempts them from being mercs and secondly, it is a very feeble mind that automaticaly labels a merc as a villian. Just because you are fighting for money does not mean you dont belive in the cause.

Oh and in the future why not take you deffinitions from the Oxford english.
http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation_of_security.htm
I'll post that link up again. I suggest anyone still moaning about how PMC's are mercs read the entire content in the above link as it's a brilliant read and IMO a must for anyone with the slightest interest in the subject. The text itself could be biased, but i don't care about that as it adds up in my mind anyhow. But the section concerning the definition of a merc stands as stone, according to the Geneva convention PMC aren't mercs. Period.

EDIT: The above link doesn't seem to work at the moment, so here is the Convention instead.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/93.htm
Scroll down to article 47 and read it yourself.

[crinkler]

He fired alot of rounds. 2 mags and did he hit anyone? I'm sure he would of said something. Cool video and all. He is by no means a Sniper. :bash:
You sir are a ****ing idiot, shut up if you have no clue what your talking about. Your simply spewing bs :bash:

[1Shot-1Kill]

This is getting interesting. Have to sit back and watch this one play out. Maybe I'll find out what I do for a living. :roll:

[Clay]

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/192/sdcw9mj.jpg

[Baboonass]

This is getting interesting. Have to sit back and watch this one play out. Maybe I'll find out what I do for a living. :roll:

LOL, that happens a lot here. Every day, someone tells me more about my proffession then I knew by doing it for 13 years.

It's more amusing then pathetic.

[Aerosoul]

This is getting interesting. Have to sit back and watch this one play out. Maybe I'll find out what I do for a living. :roll:

LOL, that happens a lot here. Every day, someone tells me more about my proffession then I knew by doing it for 13 years.

It's more amusing then pathetic.

:hug:

[WoodChipper]

My mistake, I couldn't make out any of the dialouge between him and his buddy.

[Laworkerbee]

This is getting interesting. Have to sit back and watch this one play out. Maybe I'll find out what I do for a living. :roll:

Welcome to MilPhotos friend woot

[Krazny Serb]

4. is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
6. and
has not been sent by a state which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of the armed forces (22,17).


Seems like these two preclude most (if not all) of the PMCs from being 'mercenaries' according to convention.

Here's why:
4 - Almost all (if not all) of the PMCs there are run and contain soldiers that are from the countries involved. Americans and Britons, not to mention the Australians and whoever else is in the BS 'Coalition of the Willing' are nationals of a party to the conflict - we're in Iraq right now fighting. You could also state that as America and Britain technically run Iraq right now (all appearances to the contrary nonwithstanding) then point 4 is entirely moot.
6- This is tricky. A DOD contract would imply that the PMC is given legitimate military authority to act in a military fashion, albeit with severely restricted Rules of Engagement. On the other hand, is it official, and does State's hiring of PMCs not equal the same military legitimacy of the DOD's?

Just my two cents.