first flight of MIG-29 VFT

[Cp6uja]

?
http://www.strizhi.info/pilot/video/MIG-29-VFT.wmv

[lunatic2T2]

Ya know, most videos I have seen featuring Russian fighters such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 family, always show them doing acrobatic, fancy flying stuff. I hope that they train in tactical situations because fancy flying will only look good in battle, it probably will not win it.

Otherwise good looking jet though. woot

[1Cie GevGn]

Ya know, most videos I have seen featuring Russian fighters such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 family, always show them doing acrobatic, fancy flying stuff. I hope that they train in tactical situations because fancy flying will only look good in battle, it probably will not win it.

Call me mister guessy, but I'm guessing they MIGHT train for tactical situations aswell.

Just guessing...

[NicNZ]

That is a fantastic demonstration video. Thrust vectoring is unreal to watch. Thanks.

[Pirate_K]

That is a fantastic demonstration video. Thrust vectoring is unreal to watch. Thanks.

OMG .... the last 20 seconds of the vid made it for me ... very good vid ... this ones a keeper

Thanks

[joshfox0]

Ya know, most videos I have seen featuring Russian fighters such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 family, always show them doing acrobatic, fancy flying stuff. I hope that they train in tactical situations because fancy flying will only look good in battle, it probably will not win it.

Call me mister guessy, but I'm guessing they MIGHT train for tactical situations aswell.

Just guessing...
:lol: BURN

[Dima-RussianArms]

That was awesome!
And that guy actually gets paid for it!!!
That is it, in my next life - I am a pilot.

On a technical note, look at the last 15 seconds of the movie, it apperas that engines can make a full circle/move both horizontaly and verticaly.


Also I am not sure if Russian pilots train for "tactical situations", but our President have just completed strategic cruise missile carrier pilot training in TU 160: piloting, refueling in the air, launching cruise missiles and flying 900km/h at 200 meters...

http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/The-gioi/Tu-lieu/2003/09/3B9CBA06/Tu1222.jpg

Video
http://www.vesti.ru/comments.html?id=36883&tid=29730#
Being a President sure has its perks...

[CG51]

That was awesome!
And that guy actually gets paid for it!!!
That is it, in my next life - I am a pilot.

On a technical note, look at the last 15 seconds of the movie, it apperas that engines can make a full circle/move both horizontaly and verticaly.


Also I am not sure if Russian pilots train for "tactical situations", but our President have just completed strategic cruise missile carrier pilot training in TU 160: piloting, refueling in the air, launching cruise missiles and flying 900km/h at 200 meters...

http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/The-gioi/Tu-lieu/2003/09/3B9CBA06/Tu1222.jpg

Video
http://www.vesti.ru/comments.html?id=36883&tid=29730#
Being a President sure has its perks...


I thought you lived in the United States of America.

[Dima-RussianArms]

I thought you lived in the United States of America.

I just work in the US.

[kutter]

That is a fantastic demonstration video. Thrust vectoring is unreal to watch. Thanks.

OMG .... the last 20 seconds of the vid made it for me ... very good vid ... this ones a keeper

Thanks

Hell Yeah! Seeing the 3d exhaust move around like that was pretty sweet.

[Andreas]

WOW. that was pretty impressive.

But remember:
"Top gun rules of engagement are made for your safety and that of your team. They are not flexible, and neither am I"

Cheers
Andreas

[Hugh Jardon]

That is sweet!!! woot woot

[Azide]

So... is this some kind of upgrade for the mig-29, any more info?

[Abbyy]

Lowrider's dancing. ;)

[sergey31]

That trust vectoring at the end of the video looks almost unreal, like it's to quick/smooth and almost life-like.

[Levan]

finally russian programmers manged to write software for thryst vectoring MiG-29. after 15 years. :cantbeli:

[sergey31]

finally russian programmers manged to write software for thryst vectoring MiG-29. after 15 years. :cantbeli:

Simply put: You're a dumbass, seriously you need to do some research before posting any crap on this forum as it shows your great intelligence.

[Abbyy]

finally russian programmers manged to write software for thryst vectoring MiG-29. after 15 years. :cantbeli:


Песдуй в Бобруйск, жывотное. :P

[Drunkensquid]

Ya know, most videos I have seen featuring Russian fighters such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 family, always show them doing acrobatic, fancy flying stuff. I hope that they train in tactical situations because fancy flying will only look good in battle, it probably will not win it.

Otherwise good looking jet though. woot

They do the fancy flying stuff to impress third world dictators, the future customers for this plane. Some will be surely sold to Iran, Syria and promptly will be blown out of the sky by the Israeli or American Air Force.

[Lokos]

I was wondering when you'd drop by to deliver unto us your words of wisdom, Drunkensquid. As always, masterfully done. Truly, you are a paradigm of truth in an uncertain world.

:roll:

Lokos

[Pooterman]

can I just say that looks like the child if an F-15 and F-14 were to mate???

[Drunkensquid]

I was wondering when you'd drop by to deliver unto us your words of wisdom, Drunkensquid. As always, masterfully done. Truly, you are a paradigm of truth in an uncertain world.

:roll:

Lokos

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

[GazB]

can I just say that looks like the child if an F-15 and F-14 were to mate???

Well considering the F-15 looks rather more like a Mig-25 than any previous american development, and the F-14 is just a F-15 layout with swing wings couldn't we just call it an indirect evolution of a Mig-25?

[Drunkensquid]

can I just say that looks like the child if an F-15 and F-14 were to mate???

Well considering the F-15 looks rather more like a Mig-25 than any previous american development, and the F-14 is just a F-15 layout with swing wings couldn't we just call it an indirect evolution of a Mig-25?

the only relation between the F-15 and the Mig-25 is that it was designed to defeat it. The Eagle became the best air superiority fighter in the world for decades without a single loss in air to air engagement.

[sergey31]

I was wondering when you'd drop by to deliver unto us your words of wisdom, Drunkensquid. As always, masterfully done. Truly, you are a paradigm of truth in an uncertain world.

:roll:

Lokos

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

They can, if Germans kicked piloted F16's asses surely newer 29's with trust vectoring can do even better.
Right now Switzerland does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.

[Drunkensquid]

I was wondering when you'd drop by to deliver unto us your words of wisdom, Drunkensquid. As always, masterfully done. Truly, you are a paradigm of truth in an uncertain world.

:roll:

Lokos

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

They can, if Germans kicked piloted F16's asses surely newer 29's with trust vectoring can do even better.
Right now Switzerland does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.


swiss air force homepage, aircraft types:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/aircraft.html

helicopters:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/helicopter.html

[Freibier]

Wow, awesome vid! woot

[sergey31]

I was wondering when you'd drop by to deliver unto us your words of wisdom, Drunkensquid. As always, masterfully done. Truly, you are a paradigm of truth in an uncertain world.

:roll:

Lokos

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

They can, if Germans kicked piloted F16's asses surely newer 29's with trust vectoring can do even better.
Right now Switzerland does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.


swiss air force homepage, aircraft types:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/aircraft.html

helicopters:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/helicopter.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Rt24/825231.jpg

[Holycrusader]

can I just say that looks like the child if an F-15 and F-14 were to mate???

Well considering the F-15 looks rather more like a Mig-25 than any previous american development, and the F-14 is just a F-15 layout with swing wings couldn't we just call it an indirect evolution of a Mig-25?

the only relation between the F-15 and the Mig-25 is that it was designed to defeat it. The Eagle became the best air superiority fighter in the world for decades without a single loss in air to air engagement.

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21 :roll:

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

They can, if Germans kicked piloted F16's asses surely newer 29's with trust vectoring can do even better.
Right now Switzerland does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.


swiss air force homepage, aircraft types:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/aircraft.html

helicopters:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/helicopter.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Rt24/825231.jpg

It's a civilian chopper owned by a private company, not the Swiss AF :P

[Drunkensquid]

can I just say that looks like the child if an F-15 and F-14 were to mate???

Well considering the F-15 looks rather more like a Mig-25 than any previous american development, and the F-14 is just a F-15 layout with swing wings couldn't we just call it an indirect evolution of a Mig-25?

the only relation between the F-15 and the Mig-25 is that it was designed to defeat it. The Eagle became the best air superiority fighter in the world for decades without a single loss in air to air engagement.

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21 :roll:

if you show me a reputable source for your info i might believe it

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/f-15_eagle.pl

[sergey31]

It's a civilian chopper owned by a private company, not the Swiss AF

It's still Swiss, flown and used by Switzerland and they do certain missions for the government which is the military in itself.

[Drunkensquid]

sure as hell you are not going to see the Swiss Air Force flying them anytime soon. rofl

They can, if Germans kicked piloted F16's asses surely newer 29's with trust vectoring can do even better.
Right now Switzerland does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.


swiss air force homepage, aircraft types:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/aircraft.html

helicopters:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/helicopter.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Rt24/825231.jpg

It's a civilian chopper owned by a private company, not the Swiss AF :P

woot rofl woot rofl

[sergey31]

Right now "Switzerland"does use Russian built aircraft so nothing funny about that unless you're a retard.

:roll:

What's the freaking difference, Swiss are Swiss it's the same people and the same country. Private companies have a bit more $ and can afford what's best not what cheapest in #'s

Hmm I wonder if this chopper is actually any better then KA 32 and which one would actually cost more.
http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/assets/helicopter/al.Par.0001.Image.direct.gif/alouette_1.jpg

[tony6]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

[Holycrusader]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

Our airforce highranking officer Gotowala wrote abot this.
The outcome was as I remember 4:1 for Israelis...
Do somebody have any Info abot this incident?

[UoUo]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

But what are people talking about? what fight and when? as far as i know no singale F-15 lost to the syria, i'll cheack the Air Force site and will be back. :D

[UoUo]

First Down

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.
18 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the 1948 War of Independence. A single Israeli plane may have been shot down in a dogfight over the Galilee, but the exact circumstances of its demise were never established in certainty.
Seven enemy planes were shot down in the course of the Sinai Campaign, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
In the Six Day War, 60 enemy planes and 12 IAF planes were shot down.
The War of Attrition saw 111 enemy planes and four Israeli planes shot down.
277 enemy planes were shot down in the Yom Kippur War - accounting for over a third of the IAF`s total kills since 1948. Of the planes lost by the IAF in the war, only five were shot down in dogfights.
88 enemy planes were shot down in the Peace for Galilee Campaign. Not one Israeli plane was shot down in a dogfight.
126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s.
The IAF lost only two planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964. The stories of the IAF aircraft`s first kills are here by presented to you.


That make this impossible. :D

[Levan]

Ya know, most videos I have seen featuring Russian fighters such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 family, always show them doing acrobatic, fancy flying stuff. I hope that they train in tactical situations because fancy flying will only look good in battle, it probably will not win it.

Otherwise good looking jet though. woot

They do the fancy flying stuff to impress third world dictators, the future customers for this plane. Some will be surely sold to Iran, Syria and promptly will be blown out of the sky by the Israeli or American Air Force.

rofl

[Levan]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

But what are people talking about? what fight and when? as far as i know no singale F-15 lost to the syria, i'll cheack the Air Force site and will be back. :D

In syria no F-15 where lost. Please post an exact date of this fight. I heard nothing about F-15 shot down by MiG.
there wa a story about MiG-25 which "killed" one Eagle but there is no proof.....
the whole printing and publishing industry is runing in Russia producing tonns of books, magazines and journals where are ferry tales about hundred israeli american or western warplanes shot down. just ignore this.

[UoUo]

What?

I said that no single F-15 lost to the syria..i meant the syrian didn't shot down any F-15 of us.

[Levan]

What?

I said that no single F-15 lost to the syria..i meant the syrian didn't shot down any F-15 of us.

already edited my post.

Many countries use russian built airplanes and helicopters, because there are some unique models. like Ka-32 or be-200. very good machines.

[Holycrusader]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

But what are people talking about? what fight and when? as far as i know no singale F-15 lost to the syria, i'll cheack the Air Force site and will be back. :D

In syria no F-15 where lost. Please post an exact date of this fight. I herd nothing about F-15 shot down by Eagle.

It was in Lebanon, detail are in a book of Gotowala. Sorry i do not have this book. But I read that. If this is wrong you can :bash: the author

Maybe other ppolish memebers have that book (Splątane wiraże(?))

[Dima-RussianArms]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

[UoUo]

Actually at least one Israeli F15 was lost to syrian Mig 21

Maybe I wrong and he was just hit. I read about this in some book but I cannot found an confirmation. I think that F15 was only hit but not destroyed...
AFAIK it's true. I don't have any source for it around but I believe the outcome of this fight was 3:1 or 4:1 for Israelis. Anyway: one of their Eagle was shot down by MiG-21.

But what are people talking about? what fight and when? as far as i know no singale F-15 lost to the syria, i'll cheack the Air Force site and will be back. :D

In syria no F-15 where lost. Please post an exact date of this fight. I herd nothing about F-15 shot down by Eagle.

It was in Lebanon, detail are in a book of Gotowala. Sorry i do not have this book. But I read that. If this is wrong you can :bash: the author

Maybe other ppolish memebers have that book (Splątane wiraże(?))

Well so your info is wrong.

Supprise supprise.

[Holycrusader]

Well so your info is wrong.

Supprise supprise.

Who am I to trust you and not ono of our airforce officer (colonel I think) Gotowala. I just give info what I read - thats all...

[UoUo]

First Down

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.
18 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the 1948 War of Independence. A single Israeli plane may have been shot down in a dogfight over the Galilee, but the exact circumstances of its demise were never established in certainty.
Seven enemy planes were shot down in the course of the Sinai Campaign, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
In the Six Day War, 60 enemy planes and 12 IAF planes were shot down.
The War of Attrition saw 111 enemy planes and four Israeli planes shot down.
277 enemy planes were shot down in the Yom Kippur War - accounting for over a third of the IAF`s total kills since 1948. Of the planes lost by the IAF in the war, only five were shot down in dogfights.
88 enemy planes were shot down in the Peace for Galilee Campaign. Not one Israeli plane was shot down in a dogfight.
126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s.
The IAF lost only two planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964. The stories of the IAF aircraft`s first kills are here by presented to you.


That make this impossible. :D

Did you even read that?

[Levan]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

As I understood your proclamation say that Eagle was shot down in Lebanon? or not?
Dear Dima, also please tell me Dima am I wrong when I mention huge industry producing many tonns of materials with only one idea, totaly desinformate own people about truth related to soviet era? especcially related to military history. There are plenty of "authors" which day by day issue huge articles wich have nothing to do with reality. tell me please.
BTW last 2 days no electricity cuts in the capital)))) :D

[VISTREL]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

[tommy00]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...





With remarks like this you guys only lower yourself!!(and your country)

Someones different views are not automaticly wrong,whatever you liked or not...!

[Levan]

Well so your info is wrong.

Supprise supprise.

Who am I to trust you and not ono of our airforce officer (colonel I think) Gotowala. I just give info what I read - thats all...

your info is wrong. check your sources. and name at least dat of that incident if youa are so sure.
In Russian sources are mentioned at least dozen of F-15 shot down but no proof.
Ussualy storu told looks like this:

Leutenant Ibn al hamadi took of at 8 oclok. He noticedisraelis and began dog fight. He performed a loop and shot one Phantom which was badly damaged and has flow to ocean and dissapeard. Obviously he fall down. Then he performed high g turn and shot at another F-16, he saw the hit. F-16 flown to remote mountain area, probably he fall down in remote are which is hard to reach, then he suddenly feel an immpact< airplane loose control and brave hamadi ejects from the damaged plane nd safely returns at his base.
So what we have, two israeli planes shot down. :D It looks like joke but believe me most articles are written exactly in this manner and are considered as serious trusted source and repeated hundred times in various other publication., and when you hear something thousands of times everywhere you begin believing it......
:|

[Levan]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...





With remarks like this you guys only lower yourself!!(and your country)

Someones different views are not automaticly wrong,whatever you liked or not...!

x2 if I am georgian I am wrong.....If I am from poland I am wrong. for russians its simply :(

[VISTREL]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...





With remarks like this you guys only lower yourself!!(and your country)

Someones different views are not automaticly wrong,whatever you liked or not...!

I don't agree....I respect opinions that are not the same as mine but troll monkeys such as levan and drunken are constantly popping up in russian threads and crap there....that's why I treat them as worthless loosers

[tony6]

This incident (with F-15 being shot down by MiG-21) was also described in the "Lotnictwo-Aviation Internatinal" magazine in the "dogfight" analysis series by the same author. I don't have the book by Gotowała but I have all the issues of that magazine. I will check it when (if) I find some time.

[Levan]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

something else to say? :|

[VISTREL]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

something else to say? :|

yes, make sure you don't post in russian threads anymore!

[Levan]

Levan and Drunkensquid, guys, if you haven't noticed, but you already have reputation of trolls and village idiots on this boards, why are you keep degrading yourselves even more with every post?

If you think that your insults and "jokes" can mask your inferiority complex and bitterness towars Russia, you are more than simply naive...

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...





With remarks like this you guys only lower yourself!!(and your country)

Someones different views are not automaticly wrong,whatever you liked or not...!

I don't agree....I respect opinions that are not the same as mine but troll monkeys such as levan and drunken are constantly popping up in russian threads and crap there....that's why I treat them as worthless loosers

if you look at yourself and your posts you will find zero information, only some info about goat screwing. so who is popping up and for what? :lol:

[Levan]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

something else to say? :|

yes, make sure you don't post in russian threads anymore!

keep dreaming :bash:

:lol:

[Holycrusader]

First Down

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.
18 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the 1948 War of Independence. A single Israeli plane may have been shot down in a dogfight over the Galilee, but the exact circumstances of its demise were never established in certainty.
Seven enemy planes were shot down in the course of the Sinai Campaign, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
In the Six Day War, 60 enemy planes and 12 IAF planes were shot down.
The War of Attrition saw 111 enemy planes and four Israeli planes shot down.
277 enemy planes were shot down in the Yom Kippur War - accounting for over a third of the IAF`s total kills since 1948. Of the planes lost by the IAF in the war, only five were shot down in dogfights.
88 enemy planes were shot down in the Peace for Galilee Campaign. Not one Israeli plane was shot down in a dogfight.
126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s.
The IAF lost only two planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964. The stories of the IAF aircraft`s first kills are here by presented to you.


That make this impossible. :D

Did you even read that?

Nope. Should I?

[UoUo]

Nope.
You don't seem like a person that care about facts.

[Levan]

put this question (about lost F-15) on waronline. org forum
still no confirmation recieved, there where no losses of Eagles and Falcons.
people in waronline will kick my ass for asking that question which was answered thousand times. :oops:

[mountainbear]

I don’t know how Switzerland got involved in a fight between Russians and Georgian / Hungarian forum members, but at least it caught my attention onto this thread which started with a great video, so thanks a lot Cp6uja! :D

Now, I would like to know if the Mig-29 VFT is just a technological demonstrator or is it a combat ready aircraft. Is it scheduled to produce any Mig-29 with trust vectoring and if yes, for who?

[Abbyy]

No, it is technology demonstrator.
I bet MiG tests this technology to employ it in their next generation fighter.

[mountainbear]

Thanks Abbyy! :D

[Levan]

No, it is technology demonstrator.
I bet MiG tests this technology to employ it in their next generation fighter.

I want to hear your opinion on where this "next generation" will start flying at least as a technology demonstrator?

[mountainbear]

No, it is technology demonstrator.
I bet MiG tests this technology to employ it in their next generation fighter.

I want to hear your opinion on where this "next generation" will start flying at least as a technology demonstrator?

As a technology demonstrator it already did:
http://www.aeronautics.ru/sukhoi/s37030.jpg

[Cifu]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

Ladies & gentlemens, this is a great example of the russian attitude and their great tolerance toward other nations... :-*$

[Holycrusader]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

Ladies & gentlemens, this is a great example of the russian attitude and their great tolerance toward other nations... :-*$

I really like your avatar.

As to the Levan and Drunkensquid they fully deserved for that...
They trolling in every russian oriented topic, so what do you expect?
Leave that flame war alone, its not worth to defend that people.
Hungarians and Russians are more than OK in my book :hug:
No reason to fight because some toxic persons on this board.
And now some question:
Do Hungary airforces contracted Griphons planes?

[ValkXB70]

Awesome video.

[Cifu]

As to the Levan and Drunkensquid they fully deserved for that...
They trolling in every russian oriented topic, so what do you expect?
Leave that flame war alone, its not worth to defend that people.
Hungarians and Russians are more than OK in my book :hug:
No reason to fight because some toxic persons on this board.

Perhaps Levan and Drunkensquid deserve it, but the Hungarians (in and out this forum) do not.

My post are make only to highlight this. Maybe VISTREL & Dima-RussianArms are just not think it over before make their post, but this is an (unnecessary) insult...


And now some question:
Do Hungary airforces contracted Griphons planes?

Yes.

We lease 12 one-seater and 2 two-seater JAS-39 EBS HU "Gripen", the delivery are begin in 2006. This is a mule version, the frame are an JAS-39C (Lot3), but the wings are from JAS-39A (Lot2). At the first, our idiotic politicians are contracted 14 pieces Lot2 plane, later (after an party-change) they realize some things: a modern fighter need aerial-refuelling, and the capability to use smart weapons - so the SAAB are change course, and offer this "EBS HU" version.

Sorrowly the MiG-29 fleet are become a "black sheep" (in the eyes of the politicians), and looks like they been retired soon after the Gripens arrive. :(

Polak - węgier
dwa bratanki
i do szabli
i do szklanki
woot

[Baltic]

First Down

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.
18 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the 1948 War of Independence. A single Israeli plane may have been shot down in a dogfight over the Galilee, but the exact circumstances of its demise were never established in certainty.
Seven enemy planes were shot down in the course of the Sinai Campaign, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
In the Six Day War, 60 enemy planes and 12 IAF planes were shot down.
The War of Attrition saw 111 enemy planes and four Israeli planes shot down.
277 enemy planes were shot down in the Yom Kippur War - accounting for over a third of the IAF`s total kills since 1948. Of the planes lost by the IAF in the war, only five were shot down in dogfights.
88 enemy planes were shot down in the Peace for Galilee Campaign. Not one Israeli plane was shot down in a dogfight.
126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s.
The IAF lost only two planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964. The stories of the IAF aircraft`s first kills are here by presented to you.


That make this impossible. :D


Actually I think that this is quite possible. It is thought that Israel losses were higher than thay had reported.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_272.shtml
As you can see there is a lot of "unconfirmed" kills.
If in 1991 Mig25 managed to shoot down one US F-15C I don't see a reason why Syrian Mig25 couldn't do the same in 1981.

[Kingswat]

thanks for the cool video

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

btw. a question to the Russians: what's the current status of the PAK FA? Is the project on schedule?

[Levan]

Ok friends, the only known episode involving F-15 anf MiG 21 is this, on 09.06.82 F-15 piloted by captain Ron Shapira was hit by small range AA missile R-60 which damaged the right engine. Shapira managed to land at Ramad- Davit airbase.
During that day it was his third flight. During first he shot down one MiG-23 and during second two MiG-21 crashed while trying to escape from him.
This episode is mentioned in journal Israeli Air Forces(#166, october 1988), in book "wings of peace wings of war" (P. 362), and in book 50 years of air superiority (p. 210)

Dear Inet warrior, what you call trolling? did I blame Dima that he is screwing his dog? do I tell that Vistrel is a bitch ass russian? NO. I dont.

I am just telling my opinion. If you dont like, ignore it. If you think that I am wrong, proof it.
and now **** off..... :bash:

[Levan]

found out that on 15.08.82 TASS (official soviet information agency) made statement that during fighting in Bekaa valley Syrians shot down 70 (!!!) israeli combat airplanes. rofl

[Drunkensquid]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

Ladies & gentlemens, this is a great example of the russian attitude and their great tolerance toward other nations... :-*$

I really like your avatar.

As to the Levan and Drunkensquid they fully deserved for that...
They trolling in every russian oriented topic, so what do you expect?
Leave that flame war alone, its not worth to defend that people.
Hungarians and Russians are more than OK in my book :hug:
No reason to fight because some toxic persons on this board.
And now some question:
Do Hungary airforces contracted Griphons planes?

I pointed out that it is likely that this Mig will be flown by an enemy rather than a friendly country's air force. You need to learn to handle the truth tovarish. It was you, who started the flaming and namecalling.


For those who don't know, my name is just an expression, I am not intoxicated, in fact I hardly ever drink.

[Drunkensquid]

Think about it, we have a Hungarian immigrant (Drunkensquid) and a representative of a mountainous nation whose capital gets electricity only for several hours a day (Levan) making jabs at Russia at every occasion, guys, in case you are to blind or "intelligence challenged" to see - the joke is on you...

that's not surprise...both countries were Russia's bitches ;) rofl rofl

I bet our georgian friend likes his new hungarian boyfriend rofl after all, it's better(or not ??) than screwing around the goats :fork:

keep in mind that the casualties inflicted on the red army at Budapest by those Hungarian bitches was only exceeded by the fight for Berlin. Those Hungarian bitches were so scared of you that 9 years following the war they were ready to fight you again. Militarily they were defeated, but politically they dealt a blow to the ussr from which it has never recovered. Hungarians enjoyed the highest standard of living and most freedom while they were occupied by the later collapsed ussr. During the occupation many soviet soldiers attempted to defect in Hungary, thinking that they were in the West.

[Dima-RussianArms]

keep in mind that the casualties inflicted on the red army at Budapest by those Hungarian bitches was only exceeded by the fight for Berlin. Those Hungarian bitches were so scared of you that 9 years following the war they were ready to fight you again. Militarily they were defeated, but politically they dealt a blow to the ussr from which it has never recovered. Hungarians enjoyed the highest standard of living and most freedom while they were occupied by the later collapsed ussr. During the occupation many soviet soldiers attempted to defect in Hungary, thinking that they were in the West.
:lol: :roll:

Did you make yourself feel better?

[Drunkensquid]

keep in mind that the casualties inflicted on the red army at Budapest by those Hungarian bitches was only exceeded by the fight for Berlin. Those Hungarian bitches were so scared of you that 9 years following the war they were ready to fight you again. Militarily they were defeated, but politically they dealt a blow to the ussr from which it has never recovered. Hungarians enjoyed the highest standard of living and most freedom while they were occupied by the later collapsed ussr. During the occupation many soviet soldiers attempted to defect in Hungary, thinking that they were in the West.
:lol: :roll:

Did you make yourself feel better?



I find it interesting how covieniently some refer to the ussr as russia when it comes to achievements and how quickly they switch the name to the ussr when it comes to attrocities, crimes and failures.

[Dima-RussianArms]

I find it interesting how covieniently some refer to the ussr as russia when it comes to achievements and how quickly they switch the name to the ussr when it comes to attrocities, crimes and failures.

I fail to see what this statement has to do with the post above but then again - you were never known for logic ;)


To satisfy your curiosity regarding USSR/Russia issue

Russia was nucleus/engine/heart the of USSR therefore many/most people still percieve it as the same, which in my opinion is wrong.

As for "artrocities", you might want to take it up with your new friend, after all Stalin was georgian ;)
In fact when you think about it - USSR was never ruled by Russians: Stalin wasn't russian, neither were Khrushchev nor Brezhnev...
As a matter of fact the only russian(Gorbachev) who ever was in charge of USSR - ended its very existence and freed you guys. Where is your "Thank you"?

If you dig even deeper, russians were the biggest victims of that "experiment"/USSR but you never hear complaining, now do you? It just shows the difference between my nation/me and yours/you: we don't cry and complain - we take a punch, get up and fight. We don't ask for mercy, pity and condolences even though throughout a history you'd be hard pressed to find a nation that have endured more.

[Holycrusader]

As to the Levan and Drunkensquid they fully deserved for that...
They trolling in every russian oriented topic, so what do you expect?
Leave that flame war alone, its not worth to defend that people.
Hungarians and Russians are more than OK in my book :hug:
No reason to fight because some toxic persons on this board.

Perhaps Levan and Drunkensquid deserve it, but the Hungarians (in and out this forum) do not.

I fully agree with you

My post are make only to highlight this. Maybe VISTREL & Dima-RussianArms are just not think it over before make their post, but this is an (unnecessary) insult...

I fully agree with you



And now some question:
Do Hungary airforces contracted Griphons planes?

Yes.

We lease 12 one-seater and 2 two-seater JAS-39 EBS HU "Gripen", the delivery are begin in 2006. This is a mule version, the frame are an JAS-39C (Lot3), but the wings are from JAS-39A (Lot2). At the first, our idiotic politicians are contracted 14 pieces Lot2 plane, later (after an party-change) they realize some things: a modern fighter need aerial-refuelling, and the capability to use smart weapons - so the SAAB are change course, and offer this "EBS HU" version.

Sorrowly the MiG-29 fleet are become a "black sheep" (in the eyes of the politicians), and looks like they been retired soon after the Gripens arrive. :(

Polak - węgier
dwa bratanki
i do szabli
i do szklanki
woot

Thank you for your nice words I was in Hungary two times but I only transit :( Next time I want too check if we are dwa bratanki do szklanki
I would preffer to have Grippens in our airforces. Our offset with USA is f*ck up contract. We are not treated serious by our Big Brother:(

[Holycrusader]

Dear Inet warrior, what you call trolling?

I call trolling your visit in every russian oriented topic and sayiing stupid things.

You will never say anything positive regarding russian military. You want only to disturb other people to read normal military topic in calm.
I do not care how many Gergian women are prostitutes for russian soldiers. I do not care that from one of the richest country of Soviet Union you are now one of the poorest. I do not care that your govermant is not able to control his own territory. I do not care that your president is an idiot, and Schewardnadze was an Communist dictator. I do not care that you are afraid about chechens on your territory. I do not care how many home wars your country had in the past 15 years. Who cares?

I want only watch some photos and do not read your idiotic comments.

If you want to wrote that Im wrong with with my info, pls do that. Im only human and I do not know everything. But you do not need to tell us that soviets were EVIL, on EVERY russian topic....

BTW Stalin was Georgian, you should say that you want our forgiven for this bastard....

[Xaito]

maby everybody should just talk about this Mig and the awesome vid ;)

[nagant_m44]

will this aircraft be put into production, or will existing migs be upgraded, or will this not be manufactured at all?

[Berkut]

Isn't that a MiG-29OVT?

[Levan]

Dear Inet warrior, what you call trolling?

I call trolling your visit in every russian oriented topic and sayiing stupid things.

You will never say anything positive regarding russian military. ....

wrong. check my messages.
other bull**** you wrote is not worth answering

[Levan]

and dear Inetwarrior there is no griphons dude, there is JAS-39 GRIPPEN.

[nahimov]

will this aircraft be put into production, or will existing migs be upgraded, or will this not be manufactured at all?

Should India aquire Migs they will be put into production. Some electronics will probably come from Israel or France.

[GazB]

the only relation between the F-15 and the Mig-25 is that it was designed to defeat it. The Eagle became the best air superiority fighter in the world for decades without a single loss in air to air engagement.

The Mig-25 was always only ever an interceptor and later recce aircraft. In those two roles it was far better than any model F-15. Besides what I was referring to is the US adoption of te Mig-25s layout... twin engines, twin vertical tails, and same basic overall layout. The fact that they over estimated the Mig-25s performance in the air superiority role is largely due to their ignorance at the time about the aircraft and its role. (Which was to intercept and destroy mach 3 bombers and recce aircraft).




If in 1991 Mig25 managed to shoot down one US F-15C I don't see a reason why Syrian Mig25 couldn't do the same in 1981.

It is believed that an Iraqi Mig-25 may have shot down an F-18.


btw. a question to the Russians: what's the current status of the PAK FA? Is the project on schedule?

Last news I read they had decided to delay it to first flight 2008 and production 2015 at the earliest to spend money in more pressing areas. They have no real urgent need to get such an aircraft into service. There are no serious threats to Russia that would require such an aircraft in the near future.

Regarding the topic of this thread the Mig-29OVT perhaps with wingtip rails for R-73s and perhaps even some avionics commonality with the Su-30MKIs the Indians already have in service will likely be offered for the Indian multirole combat aircraft competition for about 125 or so aircraft. As they already have Mig-29s in service and production and the Indian Navy is getting Mig-29Ks I would think this option has a good chance and would certainly make a lot of sense. The only real competition is from the Mirage 2000 from France which is popular in Indian AF service, though with the Rafale in service it no longer represents the state of the art from France and it is certainly not cheap.

[bloddyaxe]

and dear Inetwarrior there is no griphons dude, there is JAS-39 GRIPPEN.

Actually its Gripen not grippen!
And it means the gryphon. or at least a gryphon... perhaps gripenen is the gryphon or something... I don't prattere svenska... or something...

[Levan]

GazB check your books, MiG-25 was also a bomber)))

[GazB]

GazB check your books, MiG-25 was also a bomber)))

OK, if you want to be pedantic, yes, it was a bomber, and a SEAD aircraft, and a trainer, and a trials aircraft, and many other variants, but it was never modified for use as an air superiority fighter.

[Levan]

GazB check your books, MiG-25 was also a bomber)))

OK, if you want to be pedantic, .
I am not pedantic, you are.

And by the way MiG-25 was converted into MiG-31 which was designed to "win air superiority over russian north theater".

[Abbyy]

And by the way MiG-25 was converted into MiG-31 which was designed to "win air superiority over russian north theater".

What means - to intercept Mach 3 bombers. GazB was right (as usual). Just look at map.

[Levan]

And by the way MiG-25 was converted into MiG-31 which was designed to "win air superiority over russian north theater".

What means - to intercept Mach 3 bombers. GazB was right (as usual). Just look at map.

winning air superiority means defeat opposite airforces, not interception of bombers.
GazB is partially right, as usual ;)

[bloddyaxe]

And by the way MiG-25 was converted into MiG-31 which was designed to "win air superiority over russian north theater".

What means - to intercept Mach 3 bombers. GazB was right (as usual). Just look at map.

winning air superiority means defeat opposite airforces, not interception of bombers.
GazB is partially right, as usual ;)

"Opposite airforces" would only be bombers in the north theater...
Did you know that?

[Levan]

no I didnt, where are those Mach3 bombers?

[Holycrusader]

and dear Inetwarrior there is no griphons dude, there is JAS-39 GRIPPEN.

Actually its Gripen not grippen!
And it means the gryphon. or at least a gryphon... perhaps gripenen is the gryphon or something... I don't prattere svenska... or something...

Thanx for pointing that :hug:

[GazB]

And by the way MiG-25 was converted into MiG-31 which was designed to "win air superiority over russian north theater".

The Mig-31 is an interceptor of bombers. It, like the Mig-25 were never intended to engage enemy fighters. An air superiority fighter needs to defeat all enemy airpower... especially their fighters to gain control of the air. The mig-25 and Mig-31 are only capable of 5 gs and were never designed to engage enemy fighters... just bombers, recce aircraft, and cruise missiles. As you pointed out there are some variants that have SEAD missions or limited strike missions but none that are designed to engage enemy fighters.


no I didnt, where are those Mach3 bombers?

Google Valkirie (spelling). It was a failed US bomber design. After the U-2 was shot down the US decided to go with speed. With the Soviet creation of Mig-25s and Mig-31s and the S-300 and S-300V series SAMs they went with low altitude with cruise missiles and then stealth instead.

There were armed variants of the SR-71 on the drawing board too.


winning air superiority means defeat opposite airforces, not interception of bombers.
GazB is partially right, as usual

The PVO is tasked with defending the long Soviet borders from recce and cuise missile or manned bomber attack. No western fighter has the range to fly over the north pole to escort US bombers, so the Mig-25 and later Mig-31 were never designed to engage fighters of any type. (The supposed kill of an F-18 in the Gulf was more luck and surprise than anything else... it was probably a passive heat seeking R-40TD that got the kill.)

[sergey31]

I might have to disagree there with you GazB. Mig 25 could engage enemy fighters to a limited degree, it did carry AA 8 missile which was a dogfight AAM's and very short range.
While Mig 31 was a bit more maneuverable then Mig 25 and it carries more of different types of short to medium range AAM's and 30mm gatling gun. I can't imagine Mig 31 chasing B1-B and taking it out with it's gatling gun. Mig 31 is a interceptor with a fighter as a back up role and would be more successful in that area then Mig 25.

You could say that these are back up, short range, last resort visual ID rec, etc weapons
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-31-DDST8809319_JPG.jpg

But what about these?
The missile on the outer pyloan..AA12? That is a medium range fighter AAM.
http://www.airwar.ru/photo/mig31/mig-31bm2.jpg
http://www.airwar.ru/photo/mig31/mig31bm_s.jpg
http://www.airwar.ru/photo/mig31/mig-31bm.1.jpg
http://www.airwar.ru/photo/mig31/_mig-31m_r77b.jpg

[Blanke]

I might have to disagree there with you GazB. Mig 25 could engage enemy fighters to a limited degree, it did carry AA 8 missile which was a dogfight AAM's and very short range.


Just nitpicking here but GazB said the -25 was never intended to engage fighters not that it wasn't capable of doing so. After all you could say that the A-6E was capable of engaging enemy fighters because it did carry AIM-9s for self-defense but I don't think it was ever intended to do so. Just semantics...

[GazB]

I might have to disagree there with you GazB. Mig 25 could engage enemy fighters to a limited degree, it did carry AA 8 missile which was a dogfight AAM's and very short range.

The AA-8 missile was carried as a short range missile for use against cruise missiles and for close range use against bombers and recce aircraft.

It certainly could engage enemy fighters, but was not designed to do so... much the same as the British Nimrod Maritime Patrol aircraft were fitted with Sidewinder missiles during the Falklands war as a self defence measure against enemy maritime patrol aircraft, though that doesn't make it a fighter either.

(You can certainly disagree with me... I am wrong sometimes too... :-) )


While Mig 31 was a bit more maneuverable then Mig 25 and it carries more of different types of short to medium range AAM's and 30mm gatling gun.

The Mig-31 had a lot of aerodynamic improvements but it is limited to 5 g manouvers just like the Mig-25. The leading edge root extension is to improve flight performance, not add dogfight capability.

The gun fitted to the Mig-31 is a 6 barrel 23mm gun. It fires at 10,000-12,000 rpm but carries only 260 rounds. It would be used in very short bursts of 5 - 10 rounds at targets that have very good ESM and ECM equipment and stealth aircraft. The gun was deleted in the Mig-31M version.


I can't imagine Mig 31 chasing B1-B and taking it out with it's gatling gun.

It would more likely be used against a B-2 if the R-33s wouldn't lock, or cruise missiles that had been fired.


Mig 31 is a interceptor with a fighter as a back up role and would be more successful in that area then Mig 25.


In the Mig-31 the addition of the R-77 would give the Mig-31 the same BVR capability as an F-15 and a better BVR capability than an F-14.
(note I am referring to use against enemy fighters here... the standard R-33 and the R-37 as carried by the Mig-31M are designed to engage very long range largely unmanouverable or non manouvering targets like bombers or missiles)
The R-77 is very similar to the US AMRAAM carried by the F-15, while the ZASLON-M radar has rather greater range than either the F-15 or F-14. The F-14 was limited in BVR combat by its use of the older generation Sparrow as it never had AMRAAM integrated. The Phoenix, like the R-33 and R-37 are not designed for high g fighter targets.


The missile on the outer pyloan..AA12? That is a medium range fighter AAM.


Yes, that is the R-77. In this case it is the Mig-31BM which is used to suppress enemy air defences (ie SEAD). The R-77s are there for self defence only, while the larger missile on the inner pylon is the AS-17 Krypton (Kh-31) that is used to defeat enemy radars which is the primary mission of this aircraft. The missiles under the belly of this aircraft are the R-33 (x4) and would be used against AWACS aircraft.
The missile on the right is the Kh-58 or AS-11 Kilter, which is also an anti radiation missile for use against enemy SAM sites and ground radars.

On an actual mission the R-33s would likely be replaced with a further two Kh-31s or Kh-58s or perhaps a fuel tank.

[Levan]

let me tell you one thing, so you can stop speculating about MiG-25 aircraft. It was built ot engage XB-70 and future american supersonic bombers, but idea of supersonic bombers withdraw so Russia was left with its very expensive and highly specialized airplane which was absolutely useless. After this a neverending story begins of countless modernisation programms ro give an ability to MiG-25 perform tasks in modern environment. BUT, there are few thinks which made useless all this efforts,
1. Engines: They are HUGE, have limited lifetime, servicability, expensive to maintain and consumees A LOT OF fuel. Engine was in fact slightly modernised engine 15K originaly designed for UAV and had very limited lifetime. Even istallation of more sophisticated engine lead to encrease of lyfetime to only 1000 flight hours.
2. Construction. Its an all steel airplane, just like an steam locomotives, absolutely no difference. Steinless heatressistant steel, titanium, massive use of whelding. This airplane has no cannon (unimaginable now for tactical aircraft). Limited ability to perform high -G turns, waht makes it vulnerable to all types of antiaircraft weapons.

So this highly specialized plane went into service in 1973 (when military tests ended). So you have a very strange (call it unique if you wish) in the 1973 when the rest of the world is building and engeneering milti role agile fighters.

Its combat debut was aslo a clear sign that the time was gone...Israeli F-15 used weak points in MiG-25 abilities and performed and interception of interceptor (which at that mission failed to intercept two RF-4 Phatoms) and shot down one MiG-25 (13.02.1981)
On 29.07.1981 Syrians tried to execute the same trick but once again interceptors where intercepted and shot down by F-15`s.

all abovementuioned factors lead to an absolute fiasko witht this aircraft series which simply got no role in modern world.
Nevetheless its speed and climbing abilities are very impressive indeed.

[Lokos]

Its combat debut was aslo a clear sign that the time was gone...Israeli F-15 used weak points in MiG-25 abilities and performed and interception of interceptor (which at that mission failed to intercept two RF-4 Phatoms) and shot down one MiG-25 (13.02.1981)
On 29.07.1981 Syrians tried to execute the same trick but once again interceptors where intercepted and shot down by F-15`s.

How sad. You prove the point made directly above your post - which implicitly made it clear that what you describe wasn't even the role of the Mig-25 - and you use that point to show that the aircraft is 'bad'.

Levan, you need to stay out of threads about Russian hardware (or, indeed, any Russian issue). Your invective rubbish is neither appreciated, nor wanted. Mostly because your nationalistic, highly politicised bias makes every single post you construct in regards to anything Russian highly suspect. No one takes you seriously. No one.

The only people who even read your posts with interest (rather than disdain) are those who, similarly, feel that little tingle of pleasure inside every time someone smears the Russians with dirt for no reason.

GazB has, amazingly, dealt with every single thing you stated above PROSPECTIVELY. That has implications for your reading comprehension abilities.

:|

Lokos

[Levan]

Its combat debut was aslo a clear sign that the time was gone...Israeli F-15 used weak points in MiG-25 abilities and performed and interception of interceptor (which at that mission failed to intercept two RF-4 Phatoms) and shot down one MiG-25 (13.02.1981)
On 29.07.1981 Syrians tried to execute the same trick but once again interceptors where intercepted and shot down by F-15`s.



GazB has, amazingly, dealt with every single thing you stated above PROSPECTIVELY. That has implications for your reading comprehension abilities.

:|

Lokos

My dear friend, strange things are coing from you every time.

GazB excellent materials and numbers. I guess if a few GazB`s where in Egypt or Syria the state of israel would not exist for a long time)))

You should understand one thing that facts and numbers which brings GazB can be found ONLY in edvertising material related to russian aviation and please mention that he never tells us sources, its only enough that, all mighty GazB is telling us. I dont believe him because never heared from him some exclusive information only cloned facts and numbers.
I dont know what we are arguing about, MiG-25 is useless aircraft no metter how fast and how high it can fly. Proofed by history.... Only combat missions it performed with limited succes was flying reccce misions over Israel, thats it.
So now you can call in GazB with his facts and numbers and begin prooving that neverthelesss MiG-25 was great.
Aircraft born dead, with no or very unclear roles... Changed ist role million times, upgrafed countless time, used almost in every role but with limited or no success. how many countries use them now ? Kazakhstan have them, Belarus and Russia, may be some more, how many baught it?

I suggest you to save your time and stop speaking after me. I think russians do not need support from free advocates like you.

[Levan]

I might have to disagree there with you GazB. Mig 25 could engage enemy fighters to a limited degree, it did carry AA 8 missile which was a dogfight AAM's and very short range.


Just nitpicking here but GazB said the -25 was never intended to engage fighters not that it wasn't capable of doing so. After all you could say that the A-6E was capable of engaging enemy fighters because it did carry AIM-9s for self-defense but I don't think it was ever intended to do so. Just semantics...
May be I ma stupid and moron and kick my ass for this, but I cant understand why you are building an interceptor WHICH IS UNABLE TO FIGHT FIGHTERS? and this not in early sixties when most of countries where engeneering interceptors but in seventies when already everyone started engenering multirole combat airplanes.

may I answer my own question?
This is typical to soviet union, where seems no one counted money. You need an interceptor? here you are an interceptor, but please note it can not fight, bomb....only intercept planes which never ever flew :cantbeli:

[Dima-RussianArms]

I dont believe him because never heared from him some exclusive information only cloned facts and numbers.
And what would be the source of your "exclusive information"?

I dont know what we are arguing about, MiG-25 is useless aircraft no metter how fast and how high it can fly.
Levan, people much brighter than you have thought of this airplane and have built it...

Proofed by history....
What history?
The history of US not flying any recon missions over Soviet & Russian airspace?



Only combat missions it performed with limited succes was flying reccce misions over Israel, thats it.
Considering the fact that US had never launched an attack against USSR, I hardly find it surprising.

Aircraft born dead, with no or very unclear roles...
Levan wrote:

It was built ot engage XB-70 and future american supersonic bombers
You might want to consider taking ginseng, it is good for your memory...

Changed ist role million times
Like for example?
, upgrafed countless time
How many?

, used almost in every role but with limited or no success.
Examples?

how many countries use them now ?
Kazakhstan have them, Belarus and Russia, may be some more, how many baught it?
Levan, it is all nice and dandy, but you are forgetting that all of the countries you have mentioned above were part of the USSR and part of the same PVO (airdefence) network, components of which they have inerited.
Both Mig 25 & 31 were not designed and meant to be operated as a "stand alone" interceptors, they are meant to be a component of the multilayered airdefence network that only USSR had. When operated by any other country they are just simply useless ultra expensive and high maintenance but impractical toys, but in Russia they fit their niche (defence of the HUGE airspace) perfectly.
It makes no sense for anyone but Russia to buy them.

[Lokos]

building an interceptor WHICH IS UNABLE TO FIGHT FIGHTERS?

This is the only point of yours I have the least inclination to deal with. The rest is just bombastic rubbish, from a Georgian who has chosen to bear a grudge against the Evil Russian Empire That Keeps The Homeland Down. Sorry, but that's the way you come across with every single post.

So, without fruther ado, 'dear friend':

From my, granted, rather limited understanding of aerial warfare, I would think that there is a difference between interceptors and air superiority fighters. The latter are designed to engage and destroy fighter craft. The former are designed to intercept bombers and strike fighters if necessary. Therefore, in answer to your question, MOST countries that build and maintain 'interceptors' do not give them roles that involve primarily engaging AS craft. That shouldn't be construed as a defect. I don't hold it against bombers that they cannot dogfight well, why would I hold it against interceptors that are designed with mostly anti-bomber capabilities in mind?

Lokos

[Dima-RussianArms]

May be I ma stupid and moron and kick my ass for this, but I cant understand why you are building an interceptor WHICH IS UNABLE TO FIGHT FIGHTERS?

Because there other airplanes like Mig 29 and SU 27 families that were designed and tasked to do that.
How would you like to have a heart surgery performed on you with the kitchen knife, after all it is much more versatile/multirole than a scalpel?


and this not in early sixties when most of countries where engeneering interceptors but in seventies when already everyone started engenering multirole combat airplanes.
Name me a single country that faces the same airdefence challenges as Russia does.
You can't.
It is a unique aircraft, designed for a specific role in a very specific enviroment

may I answer my own question?
Are you trying to prove something to us or to yourself?

You need an interceptor? here you are an interceptor, but please note it can not fight,
It is not suppose to "fight", it is an interceptor not a fighter:roll:

bomb....
Why does an interceptor needs to bomb anyone, don't they have bombers for that? :roll:

Levan, do you even read/think about nonsense that you post :cantbeli:

only intercept planes which never ever flew
That is what some refer to as "staying ahead of the game", very useful quality in life and business (not sure about orange selling business though ;) )

[Levan]

building an interceptor WHICH IS UNABLE TO FIGHT FIGHTERS?From my, granted, rather limited understanding of aerial warfare, I would think....

Lokos

good, now shut your mouth and dissapear ..... My feelings to soviet union, Putin and USA have nothing to do with this topic. Verstehen?

[Levan]

only intercept planes which never ever flew
That is what some refer to as "staying ahead of the game", very useful quality in life and business (not sure about orange selling business though ;) )



staying ahead of the game means staying ahead of the game, not fiction...you know what I mean. When Mig-25 came its game was already over... thats what I am trying to stay.

Other similar ONLY interceptor was built in USA for a single mission: protect aircaft cariers from russian bomber but some how this dumb americans realy managed to stay ahead the game with its Tomcat. Interesting how they managed this? your opinion?

man lets just say that MiG-25 was not REALY needed in air forces, nor MiG-31 was.

[Levan]

[color=blue]Levan, people much brighter than you have thought of this airplane and have built it...
[/quote]

Excellent answer. rofl

People often like to refer to uniqness of USSR when discussing some strange solutions ad decisions made during Soviet era and even nowdays, they just dont understand that roles are same, in USA, Zimbabwe or Korea.
We built this useless aircraft because our nation is great we are smarter, bla bla bla....

BTW in USA as well is in Europe was the same **** with F-104 fighter. Interseting what are other memebers thinking about this.

[GazB]

It was built ot engage XB-70 and future american supersonic bombers, but idea of supersonic bombers withdraw so Russia was left with its very expensive and highly specialized airplane which was absolutely useless.

Except the SR-71 wasn't cancelled, and a mach 3 recce aircraft is still very useful... even today.


This airplane has no cannon (unimaginable now for tactical aircraft).

In its intended role of shooting down B-52s it will never see the aircraft it is shooting at. What purpose to have a gun?


Limited ability to perform high -G turns, waht makes it vulnerable to all types of antiaircraft weapons.


A modern SAM will always be able to out turn any fighter flying at high speed.


So you have a very strange (call it unique if you wish) in the 1973 when the rest of the world is building and engeneering milti role agile fighters.


And the Mig-29 and Su-27 were being built and tested then too, but the PVO didn't need a multi role fighter... it just needed a long range high speed interceptor that could carry the largest AAMs in service.


On 29.07.1981 Syrians tried to execute the same trick but once again interceptors where intercepted and shot down by F-15`s.


A recon aircraft that flys over enemy territory will always be at risk. How many countries in the early 80s operated F-15s... as you mentioned... even wth plenty of warning F-4s had failed repeatedly to engage it. Only the expensive F-15s that had been designed to intercept it could manage the feat. And that was the recce version. How many interceptor models did the F-15 shoot down?


I dont know what we are arguing about, MiG-25 is useless aircraft no metter how fast and how high it can fly. Proofed by history....

Without the Mig-25 the US would not have created the F-15. Without the Mig-25 they probably would have persisted with Mach three capable bombers, in fact an armed version of the SR-71 was suggested. (and from memory it was actually an early prototype of the SR-71 type that the Mig-25 was actually developed to intercept.

For the price of one interceptor that was built on the cheap... heck although it burned a lot of fuel even bulgaria could afford to operate it. Making it of stainless steel made it cheap and robust and easy to maintain. They could have improved performance with Titanium replacing heavy steel but it was made on the cheap and was very popular.
They got an interceptor, a strike aircraft, and a recce aircraft that were the best of their type for quite some time. The follow on design with better engines is still in service and will be for the forseeable future despite the power that sukhoi wields in Russia today.


Only combat missions it performed with limited succes was flying reccce misions over Israel, thats it.


And how valuable do you think that recon data was?

The Mig-31 has never seen combat... I guess that must make it useless?

The Mig-25 had a small part in preventing combat over the Soviet Union.


Aircraft born dead, with no or very unclear roles... Changed ist role million times, upgrafed countless time, used almost in every role but with limited or no success.

Created for a specific purpose that disappeared. They changed the parameters and got a very capable aircraft for what they needed.

Forcing the US to export F-15s to Israel is hardly no success...


how many countries use them now ? Kazakhstan have them, Belarus and Russia, may be some more, how many baught it?


Bulgaria recently retired theirs and India has also retired theirs as they were used in the recon role... a role now taken over by NATO allies or satellites respectively.


but I cant understand why you are building an interceptor WHICH IS UNABLE TO FIGHT FIGHTERS?

Then perhaps the problem is yours. The Hurricane fighter wasn't great at fighting other fighters but bascially won the battle of britain by shooting down BOMBERS, while the Spitfires took on the escort fighters. Now take away the escort fighters and tell my why you'd design a plane that will fight over siberia that was able to shoot down fighters... :roll:


and this not in early sixties when most of countries where engeneering interceptors but in seventies when already everyone started engenering multirole combat airplanes.


So the design of the Mig-25 was in the 70s? Nice try.


Changed ist role million times

It never "changed" its role, it was continually used as an interceptor and is still used as a recce aircraft.

BTW I guess the B-52, the B-1B and the B-2 are all crap as I have yet to hear of any of these aircraft dropping nuclear weapons in combat... that is what they were all designed to do.


When operated by any other country they are just simply useless ultra expensive and high maintenance but impractical toys, but in Russia they fit their niche (defence of the HUGE airspace) perfectly.


As Recce aircraft they were very useful to the Indians. The bulgarians however didn't really have enough airspace to operate them properly but still kept them in service for quite some time after the end of the cold war.


bomb....

The reason they made a bomber variant was because it was so hard to intercept. In fact if you look at studies in the US on new super bombers they are looking at an aircraft that can fly at mach 2.4 for all its mission (which the Mig-25RB can do) and drop a payload of up to 9,000lbs (which the Mig-25RB can do) on targets up to 2,500 miles from base (the Mig-25RB has half that range... but it was designed quite some time ago... )replace the valve technology with new lighter stuff and make the plane out of titanium and you have a real contendor for the next US bomber...


When Mig-25 came its game was already over... thats what I am trying to stay.


So you are saying it is an expensive waste... because the plane it was designed to defeat never entered service? That is really funny. So I guess your solution would be to not do anything with a plane you spent lots of money developing... and I guess when the US started flying SR-71s near your border you'd do what? Remember the Mig-25 was designed and entered service at a time when ICBMs were not available. Mach 3 cruise missiles twice the size of a bus were being tested and only didn't make service because ICBMs started working (rather than blowing up on the pad). The Mig-25 was a deterrent to many things and was a very useful aircraft.


Other similar ONLY interceptor was built in USA for a single mission: protect aircaft cariers from russian bomber but some how this dumb americans realy managed to stay ahead the game with its Tomcat.

And it is being withdrawn from service while recce model Mig-25s are still in service and Mig-31s are the front line interceptor. The only Tomcats still operational with phoenix's are Iranian.


man lets just say that MiG-25 was not REALY needed in air forces, nor MiG-31 was.

The supersonic radius of an Su-27 is about 800km. The supersonic radius of a Mig-31 is about double that... and it flys faster at mach 2.4 all the way with a load of 4 R-33s plus R-40TDs... the heaviest AAMs in the Russian inventory.


they just dont understand that roles are same, in USA, Zimbabwe or Korea.


Yeah, right. The Soviets had bases ringing the US and constantly tested US airspace with mach 3 recon planes. All those thousands of Soviet bombers that SAC had were on constant alert 24/7...

Get a grip.

[Lokos]

good, now shut your mouth and dissapear ..... My feelings to soviet union, Putin and USA have nothing to do with this topic. Verstehen?

I'm sorry, is this you trying to be dismissive?

You don't have the talent for it, old son.

Now, either deal with the points I raised (and the numerous points GazB has raised), or concede and remove yourself from this thread

Lokos