Leopard 2 MBT

[[AFSOC]]

Sup everyone...

Sum pics of the Leopard

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop113.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop1.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop11.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop2.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop3.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop12.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop19.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop8.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop6.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop5.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop7.jpg

[Marmot1]

look at 1 and 2nd photos camo pattern is the asme but collors are diferent also barrel on 2nd picture seems to be shorter (notice cammo patern on barrel )

[aeternum]

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop8.jpg

The way of using the camo-net on this tank saves you to give it a envirnoment dependent paint. Kinda make your standard green-brown-black camo blend in nicely in an desert environment.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Operation Ivy is going to be chapped :lol:
But ya I second the camo-netting on the tanks. It looks good and it helps it blend in more.

[He219]

look at 1 and 2nd photos camo pattern is the asme but collors are diferent also barrel on 2nd picture seems to be shorter (notice cammo patern on barrel )
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Rheinmetall-New-120mm-L55.gif
The Leo 2A6 uses the new 120 mm L55 gun developed by Rheinmetall GmbH to replace the shorter 120 millimeter L44 smoothbore tank gun on the Leopard 2. The extension of the barrel length from calibre length 44 to calibre length 55 results in a greater portion of the available energy in the barrel to be converted into projectile velocity. A 130 cm increase in barrel length plus other modifications resulted in a higher projectile velocity and increased KE-performance.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2A6-Firing.jpg
The Leopard 2A6 in action, at the firing grounds.

further performance increase of the Leopard 2A6 was achieved by the introduction of the DM 53 (LKE II) round. This round has a significantly higher penetrating capability than other current types of KE-rounds and is considered a guideline when equipping current or future systems. The secondary target spectrum is covered by our ultra-modern secondary rounds (HE and MP).
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

[[AFSOC]]

I like the Leopard better then the Abrams....

Just my opinion, of coarse Ivy wouldnt say so ;)

[Operation Ivy]

LOL worst thread ever :D Good pics even though its the Leo
woot

and btw


















Abrams Rule woot

[[AFSOC]]

LoL.... rofl

[UkrainianSpetsnaz]

rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Vintendo]

The barrel isn't the only difference between the A5 and A6. Notice the extra armor plating on the front hull. Also the new square lights and slanted front fenders.

[unwanted]

Gah .. We need more pics ..

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_strv122frr1.jpg

STRV122 on the prowl

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_strv122_vag.jpg

Oh another STRV122

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_strv122_driver.jpg


Oh good its such a beautiful tank ....

:D

[Marmot1]

The barrel isn't the only difference between the A5 and A6. Notice the extra armor plating on the front hull. Also the new square lights and slanted front fenders.

Well I noticed also colors are diferent but cammo pattern still the same :lol: In germany everything standarized I love that !!!!

[Marmot1]

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_strv122_driver.jpg

Like 2 years ago there was accident in polish army when turreat of t-72 turned around and squeezed a head of driver while he was looking off hatch i wonnder if the head of this guy is also put on risk of squeezeng...

[Mudcat]

Doesn't the bottom, front of the turret create a shot trap? I"m sure the engineers thought this through but it does look like it would deflect a incoming projectile down and into the hull. The M26 Pershing and King Tiger with the round Porche turret had a problem with that.

The camo net is a great idea. Really breaks up the outline and may even help hide the IR signature if it's made out of the right materials.

[mustamato]

The camo net is a great idea. Really breaks up the outline and may even help hide the IR signature if it's made out of the right materials.

It is. The swedish Leopards atleast use Saab Barracuda nets, which is also used on tents and such.
If you look with NVG on a heated tent without it, it is like a torch lighting up a large area, with the net
nothing is seen. The problem is that these kinds of nets are expensive as hell.

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/kuvat/uutiset/2002/02/21/20020221yo03i.jpg
Swedish Strv 122 without camouflage

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/kuvat/uutiset/2003/05/09/20030509yo04i.jpg
Finnish Leopard 2A4

[OnTheRocks]

this pic is just sexy as hell :D
I hope it works..

http://files2.helgon.net/Gallery/{FB6/{FB6EBA68-462E-4CF9-A967-87E53A4D5AD7}.jpg

[AFG]

Like 2 years ago there was accident in polish army when turreat of t-72 turned around and squeezed a head of driver while he was looking off hatch i wonnder if the head of this guy is also put on risk of squeezeng...

taht would definitely hurt....
though i bet the germans would of thought of that before hand when htey made that beautiful tank :D

[Truthsayer]

Leo2A6 > M1A1+ Abrahams. ^_^

[Tengu]

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/kuvat/uutiset/2003/05/09/20030509yo04i.jpg haha, he better run :lol:

[Thomsen]

http://www.juergen-baur.de/bund/data/media/1/Leo2x.jpg
http://www.juergen-baur.de/bund/data/media/1/Leo3x.jpg

[Javehn]

Nice pictures . Very nice pictures . Too bad i haven't noticed it before .

To Marmot -
Like 2 years ago there was accident in polish army when turreat of t-72 turned around and squeezed a head of driver while he was looking off hatch i wonnder if the head of this guy is also put on risk of squeezeng...

Do you have some more info about that matter ? I just checking different armies safety regulations .

[MolliG]

http://www.rheinmetall.de/img/leopard_26_gr.jpg

:D

[Javehn]

Yaiks !! You just blow my computer of the net.

[Marmot1]

Nice pictures . Very nice pictures . Too bad i haven't noticed it before .

To Marmot -
Like 2 years ago there was accident in polish army when turreat of t-72 turned around and squeezed a head of driver while he was looking off hatch i wonnder if the head of this guy is also put on risk of squeezeng...

Do you have some more info about that matter ? I just checking different armies safety regulations .

AFAIR there was malfunction of some equipment and this tanker was wit the head off the thank when suddenly turrat turned around and decapitated him and tank was not T-72 as I writed before but PT-91 "Twardy" there was some serious investigation about this accident...

Tank was riding during training and one of the track sliiped from small hill and then turreat which is normally blocked little to the left (In PT-91 driver seat is in the center of the tank not to the side as in T-72 so the driver has better field of view and also it is easier to drive a tank thru narrow pasages (bridges etc.) and turreat is little twisted to the left so driver can stick his head out of hatch ,when in combat driver is hiden and turreat is in center position) twisted and smoke gredade tube hit him in the head (normally there is a bolt that prevent turning of tower when hatch is open but this time it failed to work)

[Javehn]

Nice pictures . Very nice pictures . Too bad i haven't noticed it before .

To Marmot -
Like 2 years ago there was accident in polish army when turreat of t-72 turned around and squeezed a head of driver while he was looking off hatch i wonnder if the head of this guy is also put on risk of squeezeng...

Do you have some more info about that matter ? I just checking different armies safety regulations .

AFAIR there was malfunction of some equipment and this tanker was wit the head off the thank when suddenly turrat turned around and decapitated him and tank was not T-72 as I writed before but PT-91 "Twardy" there was some serious investigation about this accident...

Tank was riding during training and one of the track sliiped from small hill and then turreat which is normally blocked little to the left (In PT-91 driver seat is in the center of the tank not to the side as in T-72 so the driver has better field of view and also it is easier to drive a tank thru narrow pasages (bridges etc.) and turreat is little twisted to the left so driver can stick his head out of hatch ,when in combat driver is hiden and turreat is in center position) twisted and smoke gredade tube hit him in the head (normally there is a bolt that prevent turning of tower when hatch is open but this time it failed to work)

So you mean that this accident is something new to Poland ? We had several dicaputations just like that one , and then it was desided by Safety commity , that Tank driver would never drive , or sit inside of his cabine with an open hatch .

[Marmot1]

Well that was the first one and I never heard about simmilar, and this one was caused by mechanical failure....

Deaths (besides car accidents and suicides) are not common in poland from last couiple of years I remember only couple of them 2 pilots died in jet crash (they were ordered to fly in bad weather when they should not fly and CO of them are alredy senteced for that neglegence)
one tanker died in PT-91 accident (described above) one accident when during routine inspection a misile warhead exploded (during inspection)
(4 dead -2 of them civilians) one accident when during exercise howitzer firing one soldier was by unknown reason in the impact zone....

[Javehn]

The last one sounds mean .... I saw once a footage of Polan soldiers cleaning they rifles , while the Magazin inserted inside the weapon . That was so strange , i think that was first safety meassure about the weapons we learned . That was just accident waiting to happend .

[pAt]

)
one accident when during exercise howitzer firing one soldier was by unknown reason in the impact zone....

i bet ya they didnt find anything left of his body!

[ecia81mm]

Spanish leopard 2E (A6 with spanish modifications)
L-55
extra armor
new thermal cameras (Indra)
auxiliary power unit
air conditioning, jejej


http://usuarios.lycos.es/multiuso/Rollout25.jpg

total:
219 leopard 2E + 16 buffels ER
108 leopard 2A4 (2010 update 2E variant)

[Javehn]

Spanish leopard 2E (A6 with spanish modifications)
L-55
extra armor
new thermal cameras (Indra)
auxiliary power unit
air conditioning, jejej


http://usuarios.lycos.es/multiuso/Rollout25.jpg

total:
219 leopard 2E + 16 buffels ER
108 leopard 2A4 (2010 update 2E variant)

Heard about that one . Spanish Leo2E is essentually Leo2A6ex , and they also have L55 Rheinmettal as a main gun . Very good peace of tank .

[pAt]

too bad Canada is getting rid of the Leopard C2 it was and still is a damn fine tank!

****ing liberals :bash:

[aeternum]

Heard about that one . Spanish Leo2E is essentually Leo2A6ex , and they also have L55 Rheinmettal as a main gun . Very good peace of tank .

The EX version is no real version of the Leopard 2 tank. Its just a demonstration version with absolutly all extras attached. The latest Leopard is the Leopard 2 A6M, with extra Mine protection.

[MolliG]

http://www.rheinmetall.de/img/leopard_36_gr.jpg

[wholagun]

So Germany is planning on getting a new tank in 2015 right?

I hope that it is a totally new design with lower profile and smaller turret and more armour around the crew, as well as armour that is better able to withstand Anti Armour weapons. Good to see a smaller tank with same firepower but smaller sot hat it can easily be trasnported.

I hope that Poland waits until Germany gets thier newest toy so that we can get it too. By 2015 our economy should be alot better then it is now and hopefully would allow us to make that type of purchase.

[Javehn]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/leopard-2-pz87-094.jpg

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/leopard-2a4-kl5.jpg

[Operation Ivy]

http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank99.jpg

Whoops how did this get in here ;)

[aeternum]

So Germany is planning on getting a new tank in 2015 right?

I hope that it is a totally new design with lower profile and smaller turret and more armour around the crew, as well as armour that is better able to withstand Anti Armour weapons. Good to see a smaller tank with same firepower but smaller sot hat it can easily be trasnported.

I hope that Poland waits until Germany gets thier newest toy so that we can get it too. By 2015 our economy should be alot better then it is now and hopefully would allow us to make that type of purchase.

2015 was the mentioned date, when Germany plans to replace their Leopard 2 tanks. But its just a plan.. who knows what will happen. Also who knows what kinda vehicle will replace the Leo. Maybe another MBT, or maybe just a variant of the currently developed PUMA, kinda german FCS (Future Combat System).. who knows...

[admar2]

dem krauts make some damn fine tanks.

[aeternum]

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/0.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/1.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/3.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/4.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/7.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/8.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/9.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/11.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/5.jpg

http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/6.jpg

[MapleLeafInfantry]

So we've all heard that the canadians are fazing out the leo's eh...
I saw some photo's of our replacement! Defence Minister David Pratt is
quoted as saying, they are much quieter, cheaper on fuel and easy to
maintain then the leopard c1 or c2, and for once we have a mbt which is transportable by hercules!.


rofl

http://home.mycybernet.net/~db7/pics/1.jpg
http://home.mycybernet.net/~db7/pics/2.jpg

Just a couple of lads from the Strathcona's Mounted Troops looking sharp
http://www.strathconas.ca/images/Change_of_Command02/backdrop.jpg

Quick, grab the gustav!

just a lil bit of humor, hope no one gets frazzled.
-mli

[Vintendo]

dem krauts make some damn fine tanks.
Them Krauts practically invented tank warfare.

[Javehn]

he EX version is no real version of the Leopard 2 tank. Its just a demonstration version with absolutly all extras attached. The latest Leopard is the Leopard 2 A6M, with extra Mine protection.


Wrong . Leo2a6EX is not EXperimental , or EXtras . It is EXport , it is Export version of the tank , featuring Air conditioner , improved L55 , and several other features . So it very resembles to Spanish Leopard 2E , and it is basicly has the same features .


Germans didn't inveted tank tactics . They change the tactic drasticly . Before it , the tank were considered as a intfantry backing vehicle , and nothing more . Germans were the first that used the tanks as massed power working all together , and not just helping the infantry , they invented the consept of "armored fist" , the Blitskrig - use of different forces combined working together and backing each other , while the tanks playing role of charging spearhead . Romel was also probably the father of Tank warfare in desert .


http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/6.jpg
Damnit , that is so spooky .


http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/5.jpg
Beautiful picture . That's perfect place to tank ambush , examples from the books where tank shouldn't suppose to enter .


http://www.pzbtl33.de/Public/Pictures/PzPics/PzPics-Bilder/7.jpg
A look from Leo TC (tank commander) seat . The screen from the left is FLIR , right screen is C2 GPS screen , and all that bellow the screens belongs to gunner . Again , beautiful picture .

[marktigger]

Very Nice posts. Still think Challey 2 is the best though :D

how many original Leopard 2 customers are signing up for the A5/A6 upgrades?

Any one have any idea what happed to the 140mm gun the swiss were developing for the leopard?

[aeternum]

he EX version is no real version of the Leopard 2 tank. Its just a demonstration version with absolutly all extras attached. The latest Leopard is the Leopard 2 A6M, with extra Mine protection.


Wrong . Leo2a6EX is not EXperimental , or EXtras . It is EXport , it is Export version of the tank , featuring Air conditioner , improved L55 , and several other features . So it very resembles to Spanish Leopard 2E , and it is basicly has the same features .


I have never said, that EX mean Extra or Experimental. But still the Ex Version is a demonstartion-kinda model to attract customers worldwide, to show them what the Leo 2 could be. But the EX itself is no operational tank in any army.

[mustamato]

http://www.fmuhc.mil.se/fmpub/pubdok/vintersoldat/bild113

If you see a Leo like this then I think you are fooked.

[Thomsen]

Germans were the first that used the tanks as massed power working all together , and not just helping the infantry , they invented the consept of "armored fist" , the Blitskrig - use of different forces combined working together and backing each other , while the tanks playing role of charging spearhead . Romel was also probably the father of Tank warfare in desert.

"Blitzkrieg" is a word that was found by journalists who tried to describe the German victories in their offense against Belgium, Netherlands an France. And these victories were more luckiliy than strategically or tactical. ;)

[ExtraT]

Germans were the first that used the tanks as massed power working all together , and not just helping the infantry , they invented the consept of "armored fist" , the Blitskrig ...

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The first army that theoretically and practically established these tactics was the Soviet army. Soviet army was also the first one to use it in combat - in August of 1939 against Japanese army.

[Javehn]

Ouch you killed me . Know i would have to make some research ... I have exams comming soon . Not good !
By the way , i think i saw you on waronline forum... You speak Russian ?

[He219]

Germans were the first that used the tanks as massed power working all together , and not just helping the infantry , they invented the consept of "armored fist" , the Blitskrig - use of different forces combined working together and backing each other , while the tanks playing role of charging spearhead . Romel was also probably the father of Tank warfare in desert.

"Blitzkrieg" is a word that was found by journalists who tried to describe the German victories in their offense against Belgium, Netherlands an France. And these victories were more luckiliy than strategically or tactical. ;)

You're kidding, right?
;)

Heinz Guderian refined this strategy as a reaction to the static attrition of trench warfare during World War I and it became practical in the early 1930s due to the increasing power and reliability of the internal combustion engine and the invention of the portable radio which allowed for coordination of attacks. A number of military figures in several nations realized that static warfare was an outmoded concept and could be defeated by concentrating forces on a narrow point in a fast thrust.

Blitzkrieg was a fast and open style of warfare, heavily reliant on new technologies. First aircraft were used as long-range artillery to destroy enemy strongholds, attack troop concentrations, and spread panic. Then combined arms forces of tanks and motorised infantry coordinated by two-way radio destroyed tactical targets before moving on, deep into enemy territory under close air support. A key difference to previous tactical models was the devolution of command. Fairly junior officers in the field were encouraged to use their own initiative, rather than rely on a centralised command structure.

The key to Blitzkrieg was to organize the troops into mobile forces with excellent communications and command, able to keep the momentum up while the battle unfolded. The basic concept was to concentrate all available forces at a single spot in front of the enemy lines, and then break a hole in it with artillery and infantry, easy enough to do even in World War I. Once the hole was opened, tanks could rush through and strike hundreds of miles to the rear. This allowed the attacking force to fight against lightly armed logistics units, starving the enemy of information and supplies. In this way even a small force could destroy a much larger one through confusion, avoiding direct combat as much as possible.

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian


http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leopard2A6-Side-View.jpg

Leopard 2A6 side view, showing the full 130 cm increase in barrel length of the new 120mm L55 gun.
(Photo: Krauss-Maffei Wegmann GmbH.)

[RealUltimatePower]

Uhh I'm pretty sure the Brits invented tank warfare.

[thatguy96]

Uhh I'm pretty sure the Brits invented tank warfare.
Perhaps if you feel that the tank is soley a support base for infantry or that it shouldn't operate on its own, then maybe you'd be right. The British may have more or less 'invented' the tank, but its really the Germans that refined tank warfare and showed the many possibilities of tactics using armoured vehicles, both by themselves or in combined arms situations. The Russians may well have been on the way, but its clearly shown in the opening days of the German invasion of Russian during WWII, that most of the people with the nessecary experience had been purged.

[Thomsen]

You're kidding, right?

I´m not talking about the strategy, only about the wird "blitzkrieg" as description.

[erazer76]

go leo go!!!!
nice topic! :P

[JunglistSoldier]

The challenger is ****ing HUGE!


Very Nice posts. Still think Challey 2 is the best though :D

how many original Leopard 2 customers are signing up for the A5/A6 upgrades?

Any one have any idea what happed to the 140mm gun the swiss were developing for the leopard?

[cut]

Uhh I'm pretty sure the Brits invented tank warfare.
Perhaps if you feel that the tank is soley a support base for infantry or that it shouldn't operate on its own, then maybe you'd be right. The British may have more or less 'invented' the tank, but its really the Germans that refined tank warfare and showed the many possibilities of tactics using armoured vehicles, both by themselves or in combined arms situations. The Russians may well have been on the way, but its clearly shown in the opening days of the German invasion of Russian during WWII, that most of the people with the nessecary experience had been purged.

it is still a british invetion as flight is an american one and space flight a russian one (just teasin' the yanks)

[ExtraT]

The Russians may well have been on the way, but its clearly shown in the opening days of the German invasion of Russian during WWII, that most of the people with the nessecary experience had been purged.

The "beheading of the Soviet army" is communist propaganda created to conceal the real facts about the beginning of the war. The reality is that USSR was preparing a "Blitzkrieg" (Or, in Soviet terms, "Deep Operation") against Germans and the rest of Europe, and it was in the final stages of preparation when Germans launched a preemptive strike. The Soviet army found itself in a horrible tactical situation, and that's why there were such losses. Of course, unwillingness of the high command (that is, Stalin) to accept the situation for what it is when the strike began didn't help either.

[Nite]

Uhh I'm pretty sure the Brits invented tank warfare.
Perhaps if you feel that the tank is soley a support base for infantry or that it shouldn't operate on its own, then maybe you'd be right. The British may have more or less 'invented' the tank, but its really the Germans that refined tank warfare and showed the many possibilities of tactics using armoured vehicles, both by themselves or in combined arms situations. The Russians may well have been on the way, but its clearly shown in the opening days of the German invasion of Russian during WWII, that most of the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=51&src=zon">people</a> with the nessecary experience had been purged.

it is still a british invetion as flight is an american one and space flight a russian one (just teasin' the yanks)
Sorry, but flight is a german invention. The first flight was conducted by Otto Lilienthal. However, the Americans invented the motor flight.

[cut]

this could go on and on, but, the french discorvered flight in a hot air ballon and the parachute.

[Kitsune]

However, the Americans invented the motor flight.
Wrong. The first airship flew in Germany in 1900. And it had a motor (which was a German invention, too).


this could go on and on

Right...an discussion like this doesn't makes sense ;)

[Shadow]

Yup the germans also invented the space flight and the telefon.
Not Alexander G. Bell i read it in the newspapers.
But Tanks were invented by the Brits. And Tank Warfare by the germans.

[Russian Texan]

You know, in the beggining americans, british, germans, russians, etc. were all neanderthals...so technically they have invented everything ;)

[REMOV]

Source: http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/index.php?lang=3&fid=810

Defence Systems Daily: Germany's Leopard 2 remains the world's best tank

The Pentagon's gas turbine-powered M1 Abrams may be the first tank that comes to the minds of most Americans, but overall, Germany's Leopard 2 is the world's best. In a new analysis of the world tank market, Forecast International/ DMS finds that, based on an overall comparison in terms of lethality, fightability, mobility and survivability, the Leopard 2A6EX comes out on top. The annual tank analysis and ranking, the only one of its type available from open sources, is a product of Forecast International's Weapon Group.

Although the Leopard 2A6EX ranked above the M1 Abrams (in the A2 system enhancement package model), the gap between the two tanks remains exceedingly small. In this year's survey, the deciding factor was the Leopard 2's 55-calibre version of the Rh 120mm tank cannon and the formidable DM 53 long rod penetrating ammunition. The Abrams is slated to receive the same cannon, but not for several years.

New and improved fire control components, the addition of an auxiliary power unit, as well as overall performance helped push the Leopard 2 A6EX ahead of the M1A2 system enhancement package model in Forecast International's latest ranking. Even so, the M1A2 system enhancement package, which is bringing all M1 tanks to a single improved level, represents a major enhancement to the Abrams' already formidable proven fighting ability. Indeed, based on its superior performance during the Persian Gulf War, the Abrams stands at the head of the ranking in terms of combat performance.

In addition, the vacillating Russians aside, the M1 is still the only tank in production that firmly uses a vehicular gas turbine as its prime mover. The US Army recently selected the General Electric LV-100 vehicular gas turbine to re-power the Abrams.

Coming in at third place in the rankings is Japan's highly sophisticated Type 90, an amalgamation of German tank technology and Japanese expertise in advanced electronics. The Type 90 is followed by the Leclerc of France and the United Kingdom's Challenger 2, both in their latest versions.

Making a significant rise in the rankings this year is Israel's Merkava in the latest Mark III Baz model. Contributing to this rise in the standings is the enhanced armour protection and greatly improved fire control components of this latest version of the Merkava.

The latest analysis and ranking again has the omnipresent Russian tanks falling short of their Western counterparts, despite some recent major improvements as well as the continued lead by the Russians in active defence systems.

Forecast International/ DMS Inc is a leading provider of market intelligence and analyses in the areas of aerospace, defence, power systems and military electronics and specialises in long-range industry forecasts.I'm adding a little fuel to the flames ;)

[Groove]

hehe REMOV!

But we all know it from our american friends that the M1 is the best tank in the entire GALAXY ! Ah, UNIVERSUM :)

Greetings from Germany

Groove

[axl]

about that secuity thing. the leopard 2 has several security mechanisms:

1. you can open the driver's hatch only if the turret is at 0600 or 1140 position. the fcs has to be off, otherwise it will shut down when opening the driver's hatch
2. the fcs can't be switched on when the driver's hatch is open

both can be bypassed by the driver:
-there is an emergency brake (mechanical) that allows to open the hatch all the time no matter what position the turret is.
-the natch closing mechanism can be closed even when the hatch is open
-by releasing a electric fuze (which is also responsible for the light at the driver's position incl. control pannel) the fcs can be switched on even if the hatch is opened and not mechanically bypassed.

oh yes, the turret should be locked if you have the hatch open and drive. it can happen drat you turn too fast and the turret starts moving alone.

regards
axl

www.kampfpanzer.de

[He219]

Long time no hear, axl. Welcome back!
Those problems you mentioned, are they not corrected on the A6?

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_strv122_driver.jpg
Somebody else mentioned this, the pointed turret - would'nt it also deflect a round down and into the hull?

[axl]

i don't mention problems. the point is: the turret should never been moved if the driver's hatch is open. and the germans included some security mechanisms. experienced driver's know how to bypass them, sometimes it is necessary.

the turret material is soft enough that incomming rounds will not bounce off, don't worry. the ignite or move inside.

btw, this picture shows one of the most important improvements of the strv122: they included flexible covers for the turret hatches. you see the one just above the commander's hatch. it protects from rain or dust and is closed with velcro. it is also useful when vovered, as the teo large round holes are nice on air recon pix (you see a bush with two circles...). in the good old days commander's had always one or two umbrella(s) in the tank.

regards
axl

ps: i haven't been away, just waited the right topic ;)

www.kampfpanzer.de

[hedgehog]

The aforementioned "shot trap" does not apply to modern tanks for two main reasons.
1) Anti tank rounds have changed in design. Nowadays they are small stabilized high density metal darts used to puncture small holes through the thick armour. In world war 2 for example where early panthers or Tiger 2s had shot traps the ammunition used was a large metal mass with hardend casings for penetration.
2) The engagement ranges in world war 2 were much reduced to todays ranges due to the lack of gyro stabilized guns, etc.. The further away an engagement takes place, the more drastic of an arc the shell will fly. A recent video of the challenger 2 i saw showed how its shells almost come down directly from top as they land at engagement ranges of >1500m.
Sorry about any spelling mistakes, but it's friday and I have had a couple beers

[seventy6er]

Yup the germans also invented the space flight and the telefon.
Not Alexander G. Bell i read it in the newspapers.
But Tanks were invented by the Brits. And Tank Warfare by the germans.

:roll: Sorry Shadow, but...

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative9.jpg

[thatguy96]

The "beheading of the Soviet army" is communist propaganda created to conceal the real facts about the beginning of the war. The reality is that USSR was preparing a "Blitzkrieg" (Or, in Soviet terms, "Deep Operation") against Germans and the rest of Europe, and it was in the final stages of preparation when Germans launched a preemptive strike. The Soviet army found itself in a horrible tactical situation, and that's why there were such losses. Of course, unwillingness of the high command (that is, Stalin) to accept the situation for what it is when the strike began didn't help either.
Actually, you'll notice that fact shows that the Russian's were in quite a state of unpreparedness at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, with some units simply not even having all of their allotted tanks and guns, and not all the ones they did have being fully operational. There is also much to suggest that with the slew of possible intelligence and the fear of telling Stalin that the German's were acting fishy, as they pulled out all their technical advisors and began recon overflights. Combined with the complexities of the military food chain, the fortifications and defenses that had been asked for by Soviet field commanders had not been authorized until it was too late, and they were in mid-construction when they were attacked. The simple fact that over 1 million Russians simply surrendered in the opening six weeks shows that they were more than just out maneauvered, they simply had no Command and Control structure of any relevance at the time.

Its not Soviet Propoganda to cover up an impending offensive, its been backed up by scholarly work both past and present, and I've even heard it regurgitated by a Russian born and raised prof on loan to CMU for a year from the University of St. Petersburg, who spoke on a tangent about how he's had to relearn much of what he thought was history, but now he's convinced he's got most of the stories straight. Somehow, I think something like an invasion of Germany would've been something to large to miss if it was being actively planned, not just an item on the drawing board. The Russians in 1940-41 would have been in no position militarily from most statistical accounts to wage the kind of offensive you're talking about.

[Operation Ivy]

I will admit that i like how they designed the LeoA6 Turret, but other then that i cant stand our tank is the best in the world bullcrap :D



http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/New%20Sig1.JPG

[-Max2-]

rofl

LOL

[Falco]

Ah man ... what a work of art. You should auction it.

[UoUo]

Nice 1 rofl rofl

[Operation Ivy]

Ah man ... what a work of art. You should auction it.

Well i did put a lot of hard work and anger into it :P

[UoUo]

Merkava mark 4 > leo2 and M1a1

:D rofl

Take all in humor.

[Falco]

Merkava mark 4 > leo2 and M1a1

:D rofl

Take all in humor.

I think this calls for another drawing !!

[Operation Ivy]

LOL i would but they dont say there tank is best, i just hate hearing that!, and Javehn would get angry :D

[UoUo]

:bash: :D

*copy and paste to an new window*



http://groups.vgames.co.il/comm_my_storage_get_document.asp?tPictureName=ןןןן.JPG

[seventy6er]

http://groups.vgames.co.il/comm_my_storage_get_document.asp?tPictureName=ןןןן.JPG


*copy and paste to an new window*

"SoftArtisans.ImageGen.1 error '80020009'

The system cannot find the file specified. Can not access to the image file

/comm_my_storage_get_document.asp, line 16"

[UoUo]

damm...anyone have a good sever for me?

[Marmot1]

Ah man ... what a work of art. You should auction it.

Well i did put a lot of hard work and anger into it :P

Ivy how old are you I am very courious??? pls answer if you can.

[Operation Ivy]

Im a youngin at 19 wasting time at college :D

[[AFSOC]]

C1 Leopard

http://army.ca/album/Training/staunch.jpg

Challenger 2

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger2/images/chal1.jpg

Abrams

http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank99.jpg

Leclerc

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leclerc/images/leclerc10.jpg

T-90

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/t90/images/t90_113.jpg

[[AFSOC]]

Challenger 2 Firing

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger2/images/chal16.jpg

Abrams Firing

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram110.jpg

K1/A1 Firing

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/k1/images/k1_2.jpg

C2 Leopard Firing

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/VRTours/leopard/images/big/action4.jpg

[[AFSOC]]

Sum extra Canadian Leopard pics

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/VRTours/leopard/images/big/action1.jpg

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/VRTours/leopard/images/big/action2.jpg

[ExtraT]

Actually, you'll notice that fact shows that the Russian's were in quite a state of unpreparedness at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa.... The Russians in 1940-41 would have been in no position militarily from most statistical accounts to wage the kind of offensive you're talking about.

Listen, man. I'm not going to continue that debate. I'll just say the following: the period we are talking about have received A LOT of attention in the last 10 years of so, and much of what you've just written has been proven false. Unfortunetly, most of the literature on the subject is in Russian, but some of it also exists in English. I recommend you read this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0586212760/qid=1074922001/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5370260-7506361?v=glance&s=books) - you'll learn a great deal.

[soma]

Canadian lepards? GET OUT OF HERE! :P No way :)

[Andyman]

Canada ain't got Leo's no more man. It's a damn sham, a damn crying shame our military doesn't even have a Main Battle Tank :(

[[AFSOC]]

actually....

Canada still has there Leopards, the Strykers are still in like limbo just like everything in Canadian Military. Have the G-Wagens even arrived yet? Prolly not....

[Pille1234]

http://www.awexis.ch/schuss1.jpg

[pAt]

]C1 Leopard

http://army.ca/album/Training/staunch.jpg




nope, thats a C2

this is a C1
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/3786.jpg

[Dean1962]

Nice pictures . Very nice pictures . Too bad i haven't noticed it before .

To Marmot -

Do you have some more info about that matter ? I just checking different armies safety regulations .

I know that in the Leopard 1 C1, opening up the driver's hatch also closed an interlock that stopped the turret from moving. It helped avoid many very messy and somewhat embarrassing accidents!:cantbeli:
Dean.

[Dean1962]

[QUOTE=pAt;95048]nope, thats a C2

this is a C1
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/3786.jpg[/QUOTE

The first photo is the Leopard 1 C2, which has the upgraded turret that was bought from Germany. It provided a better aiming system, better night vision and better protection.
The second is the original Leopard 1 C1.
Dean.

[Dean1962]

Canadian spending spree
Finally!!! my tax dollars at at work! After pulling the trigger on C-17s and C-130s, here is a report that really warms my heart!

Canadian military hunts for new tanks
David Pugliese
CanWest News Service; Ottawa Citizen


Sunday, February 11, 2007


As it prepares to deal with another spring offensive by insurgents in Afghanistan, Canada is trying to lease state-of-the-art Leopard tanks from Germany.

Defence sources told the Ottawa Citizen Saturday that Canada wants to lease 20 Leopard A6M tanks from the German army. The tanks, which have improved protection against landmines and other enemy weapons, could be shipped to Afghanistan as early as the spring if the deal is approved, sources said.

The German newsmagazine, Der Spiegel, will also report on Monday that Canada wants to buy 80 Leopard 2 tanks from Germany as well as lease the other 20 Leopards.

According to another European news agency, Agence France-Presse, the German government is looking at approving the Canadian request. "The ministry is in principle favourable to this request," a German Defence Department spokesman told AFP.

The Canadian military has already shipped a small number of Leopard C2s to Afghanistan. But the Canadian Forces has concerns about the level of protection those tanks can provide for their crews. In addition, there are concerns about whether there will be enough spare parts for the older Canadian tanks, according to sources.

The proposed German deal would also include an ample supply of parts for the armoured vehicles.

A defence source said Canada's proposal to the German government, if accepted, could shave years off acquiring a more modern tank for use in Afghanistan. If Canada were to upgrade its existing Leopards it would take about two years, the source said.

A Defence Department official said Saturday that only limited information about the Canada-German Leopard proposal was available. "No decision has been taken but the Canadian Forces are constantly assessing their requirements for operations," said Tanya Barnes, a Canadian Defence Department spokeswoman.

In the fall, Canadian military officials sent out feelers to different countries who might have used Leopard 2s for sale. Included among those were Holland and Germany. In addition, Canada wanted details about the availability of spare parts for the tanks.

Over the last year there has been a major about-face in the Canadian military's view of the usefulness of tanks.

Last fall, after originally denying that it was going to send Leopards to Afghanistan, the military confirmed the armoured vehicles were indeed headed for that south Asia war zone. "Tanks produce a certain amount of shock action," army commander Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said at the press conference confirming the deployment of the Leopards. "They can be extraordinarily intimidating."

In the late 1990s the Canadian Forces spent $145 million to equip the tanks with new computers and heat-sensing equipment to improve their fighting capability.

The tanks are also seen as being useful in Kandahar since they can move over irrigation ditches and other obstacles that have stopped wheeled light armoured vehicles.

But three years ago Gen. Rick Hillier, then army commander, labeled the Leopards as a "millstone" around the neck of the service. Several months later Hillier wrote an article for the Citizen criticizing retired officers who wanted to keep the Leopard tanks in the army's inventory. He called those officers "armchair strategists" who didn't understand the changing face of warfare.

"Tanks are a perfect example of extremely expensive systems that sit in Canada because they are inappropriate to the operations we conduct daily around the world," Hillier wrote at the time. The general is currently the chief of the defence staff.

As they came to grips with the war in Afghanistan, senior military leaders changed their minds and turned to the tank to provide increased firepower and protection.

Last year, the army put on hold a plan to dispose of many of its tanks. But by that point the Defence department had blown up, sold or given away a little less than half of the army's fleet of 114 Leopards.

Ottawa Citizen
© CanWest News Service 2007

OH, YEAH!!!

1 Hour Ago

[Sabertooth05]

thanks for reviving a dead thread !! First post in 3 years !! :D

[soldier20]

when will canada replace there C2's

[Dean1962]

thanks for reviving a dead thread !! First post in 3 years !! :D

My pleasure. I really was not sure if I should do this, but it seemed to fit here better than as a new thread, so here we are. It'll be a bit interesting to see how it goes, though.

Dean.

[Dean1962]

when will canada replace there C2's

According to the article, as soon as they can work out the lease agreement.

Dean.

[soldier20]

http://www.haaland.info/sweden/tank/s122_3.jpg
http://www.haaland.info/sweden/tank/s122_2.jpg

[maister]

the best looking tank ever!!!!!!!

[JoaMei]

http://www.haaland.info/sweden/tank/s122_3.jpg
http://www.haaland.info/sweden/tank/s122_2.jpg

These look like A5and not A6, because they have still the shorter L44 Gun.

[Jippo]

Swedish Strv122.


-jippo

[variable]

Wow Dean, congrats, you dug up a 3 year old thread :D

But good pics in here anyway...

[zulu261]

I wonder if the Bundeswehr really wants to give 50% of their newest tanks away to Canada for leasing.

I mean what is a tank looking like after 2 years of desert use? Canada will buy brand new ones from KMW and old crap is given back to Germany. Well at least it will see real combat.

[Wolfe117]

Canada ain't got Leo's no more man. It's a damn sham, a damn crying shame our military doesn't even have a Main Battle Tank :(

Actually that's changed since the old government got kicked out. We are using out MBT's in combat right now. And as the article points out we will be eventually getting new ones.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9571/ar2006g0700014ty6.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5156/ar2006s0020105yy8.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7167/ar2006s0020079wv4.jpg

[ex Strathcona]

I wonder if the Bundeswehr really wants to give 50% of their newest tanks away to Canada for leasing.

I mean what is a tank looking like after 2 years of desert use? Canada will buy brand new ones from KMW and old crap is given back to Germany. Well at least it will see real combat.

well someone has to use them in combat

[Dean1962]

I wonder if the Bundeswehr really wants to give 50% of their newest tanks away to Canada for leasing.

I mean what is a tank looking like after 2 years of desert use? Canada will buy brand new ones from KMW and old crap is given back to Germany. Well at least it will see real combat.

I thought the same thing, but then again, it allows and encourages a major arms sale. Then, it allows the Bundeswehr to re-equip themselves with brand new tanks in a very short period of time, and a good part of that bill will be covered by the Canadian leasing agreement. The Bundeswehr can also use some of the Leo 2 A4s that are in reserve for the time that it takes the new ones to come off the line. So Canada gets its new and used tanks, Germany sells its new and used tanks and gets more new ones, and everyone is happy.

Seen from this angle, it's not as looks as it's stupid!

Dean.

[Eugene Onegin]

Now all they have to do is come out with a Tiger 3 or a panther 2. he he he







;89472']Sup everyone...

Sum pics of the Leopard

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop113.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop1.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop11.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop2.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop3.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop12.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop19.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop8.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop6.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop5.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop7.jpg

[I_hate_posers]

Do any of the country's who have the 2A5 or 2A6, have them deployed to Afghanistan? Are there any plans to do so?
I'm surprised there aren't more Euro countries in country deploying armored vehicles of some type.

[Dean1962]

Do any of the country's who have the 2A5 or 2A6, have them deployed to Afghanistan? Are there any plans to do so?
I'm surprised there aren't more Euro countries in country deploying armored vehicles of some type.

Good question! I really do not know. The only other country that I know of who could deploy them at the present time is Germany, and as I do not read German, I have not read of any press releases stating that they have deployed Leo 2s there. However, it would not surprise me if they did, as they were very quick to deploy them to Kosovo.

Dean.

[Eggy]

A few weeks ago someone posted a topic that Denmark might be sending over their Leopard 2A5 tanks.

The Dutch goverment debated on sending over Leopard 2A6 tanks when the deployment was not yet underway around may 2006 but the PzH 2000 was sent instead. Besides with fighter jets, transport and attack helos and SP artillery I doubt there is money left to send tanks into theatre as well.

[ex Strathcona]

A few weeks ago someone posted a topic that Denmark might be sending over their Leopard 2A5 tanks.

The Dutch goverment debated on sending over Leopard 2A6 tanks when the deployment was not yet underway around may 2006 but the PzH 2000 was sent instead. Besides with fighter jets, transport and attack helos and SP artillery I doubt there is money left to send tanks into theatre as well.

your doing more than your fair share already, and thank you as well.

[Invisigoth]

Man, we might not be able to come to the battle, but if the battle ever comes to us.....;)

[Eggy]

Man, we might not be able to come to the battle, but if the battle ever comes to us.....;)
well the good thing of missions like these is that the goverment gets a wake up call that all that expensive equipment is actually pretty usefull and saves lives. If it's sitting in a base at home all the time it's so much easier for politicians to just get rid of it.

Some Leopard 2A6 pictures from the Dutch Army Open Days 2004:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9016/rnlaleopard2a6andm765aipw9.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/39/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayrt4.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9028/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydaymp8.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6281/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayuo6.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3429/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayoo3.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3949/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayew2.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4033/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayta5.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/563/rnlaleopard2a6nlarmydayif1.jpg

Shame they won't be send because they do look good together:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5540/rnlaleopard2a6soesterbefv5.jpg

[marcellogo]

I was shocked by news that Netherlands would retire all its Leopard from active service (and probably sell them).

Regrettabily this is only the most extreme manifestation of the "rapid deployment" madness that have pervaded western military in the last decade (altought the first worring signs of that trend even predates 9/11) and to underline the utter madness of all this obviously the news came out after the same Usa has begun its retreat from Afganistan...

Well maybe they are right: according fromvery latest news trom stock excanges, probably our own governments in near future would have more need of anti-riot ecquipment to use against our own peoples than of weapons for protect them from a possible foreign menace.

[Bleifuss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNmLFTSq-TE&feature=feedrec_grec_index

[Frank the soldier]

MBT Leopard 2 A6 , German Armed Forces ( Bundeswehr) at the local exercises Range Pfreimd , Bavaria
High-Res Pictures at the follow LINK :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig1...in/photostream

[Baron Harkonnen]

Looking for good photo of EMES 15 sight
(separatly)

[keparti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_bzUxTzrGg

[501]

Looking for good photo of EMES 15 sight
(separatly)
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7493/emes1536.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1047/emes1501.gif

[armeeoffizier]

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1268/leo2a4wenov2011.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/leo2a4wenov2011.jpg/)

[Baron Harkonnen]

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7493/emes1536.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1047/emes1501.gif

Thanks. Any more availible frontally?

[keparti]

Raw 720p HD action:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwFmjb50DcE&feature=g-all-u&context=G2d8d05bFAAAAAAAADAA

[alfa-male]

168912168913168914168916168915

[alfa-male]

169003169004169005

[Black Aces]

I was shocked by news that Netherlands would retire all its Leopard from active service (and probably sell them).Regrettabily this is only the most extreme manifestation of the "rapid deployment" madness that have pervaded western military in the last decade (altought the first worring signs of that trend even predates 9/11) and to underline the utter madness of all this obviously the news came out after the same Usa has begun its retreat from Afganistan...Well maybe they are right: according fromvery latest news trom stock excanges, probably our own governments in near future would have more need of anti-riot ecquipment to use against our own peoples than of weapons for protect them from a possible foreign menace.The Indonesian Defence Minister is reportedly saying that Indonesia will be procuring Leopard A6s....so is Dutch's Leopards being sold to the Indonesians?\http://defpro.com/daily/details/921Terrific, the Dutch will aid the Indonesians by selling the Leos to them in the latter's supression of the resistance in its occupation of Irian Jaya, well done Holland.

[Panjaitan]

The Indonesian Defence Minister is reportedly saying that Indonesia will be procuring Leopard A6s....so is Dutch's Leopards being sold to the Indonesians?\http://defpro.com/daily/details/921Terrific, the Dutch will aid the Indonesians by selling the Leos to them in the latter's supression of the resistance in its occupation of Irian Jaya, well done Holland.


Just to be clear
the dutch parliament is oppose to this plan.
:-(
and even more heart breaking is some of our parliament to is oppose to the plan.
:(

the part that I bold from your post.

I find it hard to believe that this MBT will be used in Irian Jaya(just to be clear we stop using the term Irian Jaya and call the province as PAPUA for years now)
:)

do you ever come to PAPUA...??
do you know anything about PAPUA native...??
do you even have the slightest idea about transportation there...??

the area is very ROUGED and mountainous with tick Forrest stretch from one end to the other,with barely enough road to connect the entire province.that's why PAPUA is the only area with the most airstrip in the whole country.coz if you want to go from one KABUPATEN(equivalent of District) to another,you literally need to go by airplane (this is the case with half of PAPUA).

so I think any sane military commander wont deploy any MBT(what ever it is,whether it's LEO 2,T-64 BULAT,K1A1/K1A2,T-90) to the region,coz it wont be effective and only will be a burden.and I stake my money that our military commander is Sane people.
:grin:

if we're to deploy MBT it will be in KALIMANTAN or JAWA or SUMATRA island(Borneo) and unlikely Nusa Tenggara Timur.

and please,in the past we admit there is mistakes that been made by the previous government.and we're admit it
and some the perpetrator is already in custody and been trial already.the other if still any will be brought eventually.
but do you have to keep pinning it up to the current government...?!,and still accusing there still many foul play when we're currently trying our hardest to fix it.

please,if you happened to have any prove to your statement
do enlighten me..

[PaulClift]

Not sure if been posted. But pretty badass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THeaXnM6Npg

[Shark with freaking laser]

Someone should merge this thread with the other Leo 2 thread.

[Black Aces]

Just to be clear
the dutch parliament is oppose to this plan.
:-(
and even more heart breaking is some of our parliament to is oppose to the plan.
:(

the part that I bold from your post.

I find it hard to believe that this MBT will be used in Irian Jaya(just to be clear we stop using the term Irian Jaya and call the province as PAPUA for years now)
:)

do you ever come to PAPUA...??
do you know anything about PAPUA native...??
do you even have the slightest idea about transportation there...??

the area is very ROUGED and mountainous with tick Forrest stretch from one end to the other,with barely enough road to connect the entire province.that's why PAPUA is the only area with the most airstrip in the whole country.coz if you want to go from one KABUPATEN(equivalent of District) to another,you literally need to go by airplane (this is the case with half of PAPUA).

so I think any sane military commander wont deploy any MBT(what ever it is,whether it's LEO 2,T-64 BULAT,K1A1/K1A2,T-90) to the region,coz it wont be effective and only will be a burden.and I stake my money that our military commander is Sane people.
:grin:

if we're to deploy MBT it will be in KALIMANTAN or JAWA or SUMATRA island(Borneo) and unlikely Nusa Tenggara Timur.

and please,in the past we admit there is mistakes that been made by the previous government.and we're admit it
and some the perpetrator is already in custody and been trial already.the other if still any will be brought eventually.
but do you have to keep pinning it up to the current government...?!,and still accusing there still many foul play when we're currently trying our hardest to fix it.

please,if you happened to have any prove to your statement
do enlighten me..

Well fellow Panjaitan,

As you have correctly figured out, I have not been to Indonesie and knowledgeable locals like yourself are always correct to correct my geographical error and for this, I thank you.

There is no need to overreact for statements that are incorrect and I appreciate people like you to correct them and it is through your corrections, we learn the other person's point of view.

[Panjaitan]

Well fellow Panjaitan,

As you have correctly figured out, I have not been to Indonesie and knowledgeable locals like yourself are always correct to correct my geographical error and for this, I thank you.

There is no need to overreact for statements that are incorrect and I appreciate people like you to correct them and it is through your corrections, we learn the other person's point of view.

:-)
it was my pleasure if I can be of help.even with limited information that I have.

the bold part.
it was indeed a mistake by me to overreact.and for that I apologize.
but for me,I've been a silent reader in this forum for a while and few times I watch and read some comment by few member of this forum who so BIAS toward my country and at the time I cant reply to respond for the statement coz I haven't have an ID in this forum.

that is why I make this ID,so hopely I can learn a thing or two from this forum and be able to respond to news about my own country when the need arise.

once again I apologize.
well we've been off topic to far...

so here's an update about Indonesia plan to procure Leo 2 (the article is in BAHASA,so I'll try to translate it myself)


http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2011/12/pemerintah-siapkan-us280-juta-untuk-100.html


Indonesia Goverment prepare US$ 280 million to buy 100 Leopard 2A6

Jurnas.com ,MOD is currently planing to buy 100 Leopard 2A6 from dutch government for US$ 280 million.the found will be taken from defense budget 2010-2014.
"in 2012,tim is already working,and we will buy 100 unit" said the Vice Defense minister in jakarta,Sunday (18/12)

[Frank the soldier]

Austria Army ( Bundesheer) from the Unit PzBtl 14 at Wels , Austria

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pzbrig15/6826030012/in/photostream