Should the U.S. defend Taiwans freedom?

[obd]

As the "watered down" referendum for "Taiwanese self rule" which is designed to "get the mood of the people" for freedom nears and China ups the ante with threats of attacking the free democratic island of 23 million people should the referendum pass, the United States is faced with a choice. Should we appease both and try to maintain the status quo, should we remain silent and let China openly threaten and maybe even attack a fellow democracy, or should we stand up to our own ideals, irregardless of economic interests in communist China and support a fellow democracy? In my opinion, US foreign policy in the post WW2 period has essentially been one disaster and one hypocracy after another (with of course some real great and noble achievements in between also): We screwed over Vietnam by supporting democratic elections but then failing to back up the results which we didnt want and started a war that killed millions, we supported Manuel Noriega in Panama, only calling him a drug dealign terrorist and taking him down in a war that killed hundreds of innocents after he stopped doing what the CIA wanted, we supported a great number of dictators around the globe against thier own populations for our own economic gain, we funded both Iran and Iraq in a blood bath of a war which included support for Saddam Hussein and the Shah of Iran who killed many of his own people, we freely gave money to the Pakistani's (one of the most anti-western, backward, and religiously radical populations on this earth) and thier ISI which then, in turn, gave that money to radicals like Gulbadin Hekmaytyar (spelling?) and Osama Bin LAden others and now in Iraq we fail to give in to the will of the people for a direct democracy and are doing everything we can to stop the Iraqi people from electing who they want (and who we DONT want). etc etc etc etc etc. I see support of Taiwan as one of the many chances our government has to really stand up to our own supposedly dear held ideals of national sovereignty, democracy, capitalist free markets, individual freedoms etc. Yes, it could be costly in the economic sense but in the long run it would be more costly to fail to live up to our ideals and continue to slide into the role of a hegemonic warlike empire only concerned with its own financial well being and security and willing to sacrifice countless others freedoms and rights for that security!! Just my opinion though. I would like to hear others.

[Uncle Sam]

Man, I keep losing my place...spread it out a little...I'm old.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I believe we should defend taiwan again china. We need to contain china as much as possible IMHO, because they are catching up with us, and a fascist (not communist anymore) superpower is not exactly something in our interests.

[duck]

The brightest Chinese students are competing for scholarships at Ivy League schools, the Hong Kong tycoons all depend on American consumers, China's number one export market - the USA. Stop worrying and invite your Chinese friends for a nice dinner at home. It has worked for Japan and Korea already.

[UkrainianAmerican]

The brightest Chinese students are competing for scholarships at Ivy League schools, the Hong Kong tycoons all depend on American consumers, China's number one export market - the USA. Stop worrying and invite your Chinese friends for a nice dinner at home. It has worked for Japan and Korea already.
I dont have anything against the chinese per se. But their fascist-capitalist government is not exactly something I want competing with us.

[SeanAshi]

What would General Macarthur say if he were alive?

[UkrainianAmerican]

What would General Macarthur say if he were alive?
Probably something involving racial slurs for people of chinese descent :|

[duck]

I do business with those intelligent, tough Chinese gentlemen and ladies every day. Within a few decades, a Chinese-American is going to be the President of the United States, a Republican candidate. They don't go for the second choice. Only North Korea stands in the way of a long partnership.

[Red]

i think china is a threat and should be treated like one.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I do business with those intelligent, tough Chinese gentlemen and ladies every day. Within a few decades, a Chinese-American is going to be the President of the United States, a Republican candidate. They don't go for the second choice. Only North Korea stands in the way of a long partnership.
Quite possibly. BUT, I am talking about the PRC, which as it is now, is far from a representative Capitalist Democracy.

[UkrainianAmerican]

i think china is a threat and should be treated like one.
^^^Word.

[obd]

well, its certainly possible that a chinese American could become president, assuming there is a chinese american out there who has mastered the bull****, lies, double crossing, backdoor dealing, underhanded dealing, special interest supporting, and criminal activity of all other US presidential candidates. After all, its not the "man with the plan" that wins. Its the man with the best lies and the most money!! Anyway, in the long run I see it as a bad thing for US security and wellfare to support communist China. In the short term there may be economic payoffs but in the long run it will just be another nail in the coffin of the ideals America was founded on. The same ideals which have, in the past at least, made it a bastion and a bullwork against communism, facsism, dictatorship etc. There may be somesmart Chinese coming over here for an education but whats the key idea in that sentence: They are comign to America to get thier education because they cant get it in China!!!!!!!

[crazystriker]

There may be somesmart Chinese coming over here for an education but whats the key idea in that sentence: They are comign to America to get thier education because they cant get it in China!!!!!!!

you forget that sometimes countries, like china, send their students over to america to learn, and expect the students to come back.

as a chinese, i can say that u can just stop calling china a "communist" state. they were all anti-western and closed off the world economically, socially, and politcally. now look at them. u see american companies growing all over there in china: McDonalds, pespi, coca cola, KFC, ect etc etc. all these western companies r trying to do business w/ china. why??? b/c they arent even communists anymore. they r nothing more than FACISTS CAPITALIST SELLOUTS. bunch of hypocrites.

[UkrainianAmerican]

There may be somesmart Chinese coming over here for an education but whats the key idea in that sentence: They are comign to America to get thier education because they cant get it in China!!!!!!!

you forget that sometimes countries, like china, send their students over to america to learn, and expect the students to come back.

as a chinese, i can say that u can just stop calling china a "communist" state. they were all anti-western and closed off the world economically, socially, and politcally. now look at them. u see american companies growing all over there in china: McDonalds, pespi, coca cola, KFC, ect etc etc. all these western companies r trying to do business w/ china. why??? b/c they arent even communists anymore. they r nothing more than FACISTS CAPITALIST SELLOUTS. bunch of hypocrites.
Thanks for confirming my theory bro. ;)

[Roger Rabbit]

General Macarthur: "nuke them, nuke them damn SoBs, NUKE THEM DAMMIT I SAID NUKE THEM."

Sorry i had a drama lesson today and i was getting into the spirit of things.

[Pille1234]

I as an european tell you that:

If 'you americans' do nothing to protect the taiwanese democracy, I will say: ha look, these are your moral standards! You talk about spreading and protecting freedom and democracy, but as soon as economic interests appear, you don't care about that anymore. Where are your ideals now? Oil, $$$, business, thats all you can think of.

If you intervene or start military actions, I will say: you're only concerned about military and economic competition. You try to contain China, you want to get rid of them. You hegemonic, warmongering imperialists! You're camourflaging your action as protecting freedom and democracy, but we know that film already, we watched it too often! Good morning Vietnam!

rofl
Decide how you want, you're wrong and we europeans are right :D

[Red]

I as an european tell you that:

If 'you americans' do nothing to protect the taiwanese democracy, I will say: ha look, these are your moral standards! You talk about spreading and protecting freedom and democracy, but as soon as economic interests appear, you don't care about that anymore. Where are your ideals now? Oil, $$$, business, thats all you can think of.

If you intervene or start military actions, I will say: you're only concerned about military and economic competition. You try to contain China, you want to get rid of them. You hegemonic, warmongering imperialists! You're camourflaging your action as protecting freedom and democracy, but we know that film already, we watched it too often! Good morning Vietnam!

rofl
Decide how you want, you're wrong and we europeans are right :D
where do they get people like you from?is there a factory that they mass produce guys like you cause that factory needs to be bombed

[SeanAshi]

General Macarthur: "nuke them, nuke them damn SoBs, NUKE THEM DAMMIT I SAID NUKE THEM."

Thats what I was thinking he would say, he might say some bad things about President Truman as well.

[Merik]

If they are a threat then on a militaristic basis I believe that we should be weary of them, but on a political and humane basis I believe we should still keep relations open with China.

But yes, defend Taiwan at all costs.

[Maj C]

Well I know that some of the scenarios the Navy and USMC are using to determine what types of weapons to buy are based on defense of Taiwan in 2015. Not a whole lot of play for Marines but it's probably the last great naval battle the Navy is looking at.

As an American of Chinese ancestry (I know it's easier to say Chinese-American but that somehow implies I'm not really American) here's some reasons there won't be an ABC President...

Top Ten Reasons there won`t be a Chinese American President Anytime Soon

10. White House not big enough for in-laws
9. Engineering, medicine, and law always preferred over politics
8. Oval Office has bad feng shui (literally means `wind water`)
7. Can`t find decent roast duck inside the beltway
6. Secret service can`t handle nagging from mother
5. Dignitaries generally intimidated by chopsticks at state dinners
4. No chance for promotion
3. Lactose intolerance not considered politically correct
2. Senior aides won`t take off shoes before coming in
1. Air Force One: No frequent flyer miles

[Tengu]

I as an european tell you that:

If 'you americans' do nothing to protect the taiwanese democracy, I will say: ha look, these are your moral standards! You talk about spreading and protecting freedom and democracy, but as soon as economic interests appear, you don't care about that anymore. Where are your ideals now? Oil, $$$, business, thats all you can think of.

If you intervene or start military actions, I will say: you're only concerned about military and economic competition. You try to contain China, you want to get rid of them. You hegemonic, warmongering imperialists! You're camourflaging your action as protecting freedom and democracy, but we know that film already, we watched it too often! Good morning Vietnam!

rofl
Decide how you want, you're wrong and we europeans are right :D

This man does not speak for all europeans. :bash: Europe will do what it does best. Sitting at the sideline, doing nothing usefull, the only thing they will do is resort to childish name calling. After all its hard to do something wrong when you aren't doing anything.

I say defend taiwan against those basterds.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Well I know that some of the scenarios the Navy and USMC are using to determine what types of weapons to buy are based on defense of Taiwan in 2015. Not a whole lot of play for Marines but it's probably the last great naval battle the Navy is looking at.

As an American of Chinese ancestry (I know it's easier to say Chinese-American but that somehow implies I'm not really American) here's some reasons there won't be an ABC President...

Top Ten Reasons there won`t be a Chinese American President Anytime Soon

10. White House not big enough for in-laws
9. Engineering, medicine, and law always preferred over politics
8. Oval Office has bad feng shui (literally means `wind water`)
7. Can`t find decent roast duck inside the beltway
6. Secret service can`t handle nagging from mother
5. Dignitaries generally intimidated by chopsticks at state dinners
4. No chance for promotion
3. Lactose intolerance not considered politically correct
2. Senior aides won`t take off shoes before coming in
1. Air Force One: No frequent flyer miles
Those are also the reasons why no russian jews are going to be presidents :oops:

[OldRecon]

That going to war to show one's high moral standard bull**** appeal less to me than the go to war to protect the interest of the nation bull**** I must admit.
At least the last of those 2 reasons for going to war is the most honest way to look at it.
China will perhaps win in the end if they do opt for a full scale invation of Taiwan, but it shure won't be a cheap win (and without any foreign help at that on the part of the Taiwanese).
As for taking on the nation with the most powerful growth potential and human reserve in the world..., PRC, don't the US have enough wars on its hands allready?
Still don't get it why Dubbaya looked upon Saddam and Iraq as a greater threat to USA than Al Qaida. Saddam is slowly dying of cancer and so the regime would have done with him. If Saddam had died 3-4 years from now "still in charge at home", don't you think his sons would have gone head to head with each other? Or that some others in the inner ranking alumni would have got rid of the Saddam sons in fear of their own positions (red: lives)? Like when Marshal Koniev had Beria shot after the death of Stalin.
Al Qaida on the other hand is a hydra. Cut off one head and another will take its place.
Though at present centered around Bin Laden, it wouldn't surprise me if Al Qaida would contiune to live on without him.
Al Qaida also appear to have rather wider goals than Saddam may ever have had.

[duck]

China is an enemy of Al-Qaeda too. Xinjiang Uigur groups are part of Osama's posse.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

As the "watered down" referendum for "Taiwanese self rule" which is designed to "get the mood of the people" for freedom nears and China ups the ante with threats of attacking the free democratic island of 23 million people should the referendum pass, the United States is faced with a choice. Should we appease both and try to maintain the status quo, should we remain silent and let China openly threaten and maybe even attack a fellow democracy, or should we stand up to our own ideals, irregardless of economic interests in communist China and support a fellow democracy? In my opinion, US foreign policy in the post WW2 period has essentially been one disaster and one hypocracy after another (with of course some real great and noble achievements in between also): We screwed over Vietnam by supporting democratic elections but then failing to back up the results which we didnt want and started a war that killed millions, we supported Manuel Noriega in Panama, only calling him a drug dealign terrorist and taking him down in a war that killed hundreds of innocents after he stopped doing what the CIA wanted, we supported a great number of dictators around the globe against thier own populations for our own economic gain, we funded both Iran and Iraq in a blood bath of a war which included support for Saddam Hussein and the Shah of Iran who killed many of his own people, we freely gave money to the Pakistani's (one of the most anti-western, backward, and religiously radical populations on this earth) and thier ISI which then, in turn, gave that money to radicals like Gulbadin Hekmaytyar (spelling?) and Osama Bin LAden others and now in Iraq we fail to give in to the will of the people for a direct democracy and are doing everything we can to stop the Iraqi people from electing who they want (and who we DONT want). etc etc etc etc etc. I see support of Taiwan as one of the many chances our government has to really stand up to our own supposedly dear held ideals of national sovereignty, democracy, capitalist free markets, individual freedoms etc. Yes, it could be costly in the economic sense but in the long run it would be more costly to fail to live up to our ideals and continue to slide into the role of a hegemonic warlike empire only concerned with its own financial well being and security and willing to sacrifice countless others freedoms and rights for that security!! Just my opinion though. I would like to hear others.

What kind of specious ranting is this? The standard the-US-is-evil-just-look-what-they-did-they're-a-tool-of-the-devil boilerplate. You're not happy with US foreign policy, and say it's simply self serving, and yet you want us to defend Taiwan for the same reasons? You can't have it both ways.

Either we leave people on their own & wash our hands of whatever happens, or we intervene and deal with the fallout. You can spin events & political relationships any way you fancy, but the end is the same.

America's foreign policy is designed to benefit America - as it should be. The US's foreign policy is not based solely upon some fanciful notion of liberating the oppressed masses of the world. If that were the case, the President could walk into Congress and get approval to invade and "free" most of the world. A compelling national interest is needed. If it coincides with liberating the masses, great- we can have a party and hug each other afterwards.

We should ask ourselves, as the Chinese have already asked us if we are willing to trade Taiwan for Los Angeles. Are we? Should we?

You know that if we were to go to war over Taiwan - following the lofty ideals you'd have us enforce - you'd be back here 5 years hence condemning us for doing it for economic reasons. Just look at the US financial interests in Taiwan! How many did we kill just to fill our pockets with the blood of the oppressed victims?
[/i]