Pre 9/11 threats...

[joe mama]

If the volume and/or nature of the terrorism threats received during Jan 01 and 9/11 is significantly different (higher or lower) than the volume and/or nature of threats received during any times when Clinton was president?
I ask because I think many people who jump to the conclusion that "Bush could have stopped 9/11 easy! the threats were there!!!" ignore the fact that our intelligence agencies pick up threats all the time, and the pre 9/11 threats only look clearer than previous ones because of hindsight.

Another related point for you: let's say security had been tightened before 9/11 because of the threats. Not just airport security, but investigations into questionable people or long hard looks taken at mosques that were thought to be home to radicals for example, what do you think the reaction of the media and many and many people would have been? If you think there wouldn't have been a huge stink about civil rights being violated and discrimination and security being too inconvient, I say you don't know American society very well at all. For f's sake, people started bitching about the airport security within a few months of it tightening after 9/11.

[n.ignomo]

Did you look at Farenheit 9/11 ?

[vryhpyammoadded]

Many of us in MI through the 90’s were not worrying about “if” but how and when the big one would get through based off the publicized demagoguery coming out of the Middle East alone. One unlucky tech I know, note: not even an analyst made a somewhat educated guess as too the month, year and method of the attack on an informal betting board. He got lots of interesting phone calls 9/11. By the way, he wasn’t the only one to get the method right seeing it was the most popular choice of attack on the board.

Today I’m out of the loop so I couldn’t say if it’s raining worry more than it was during the 90’s but It sure was busy back then and we were overstaffed too. All that changed during 98-99. The administration was paying the troops so well to bail that buddies still in kept calling me and others to come back because everyone was so short staffed. There was a lot of worry going on about something slipping by just as Bush was coming into office.

On the subject of data collection and known dangerous elements.
We collected tons of data on bad guys back then using data mining techniques common today. Heck, some of the cubes reminded me of the children’s “find Waldo” books. The problem was that the Left treated these cases as law enforcement issues and thereby restricted sharing the data between branches. We kept screaming and eventually AQ acted and the administration realized what was going on but Clinton was a lame duck by then. I feel the Bush admin inherited a chaotic rebuilding intel mess and a political bureaucracy only just realizing the magnitude of AQ.
Really what got the US was bureaucratic inertia built up over 30 years of somewhat valid anti Intel paranoia in certain American political circles. In fact, AQ got within the US decision loop!

[-Caveman-]

joe mama

Another related point for you: let's say security had been tightened before 9/11 because of the threats. Not just airport security, but investigations into questionable people or long hard looks taken at mosques that were thought to be home to radicals for example, what do you think the reaction of the media and many and many people would have been? If you think there wouldn't have been a huge stink about civil rights being violated and discrimination and security being too inconvient, I say you don't know American society very well at all. For f's sake, people started bitching about the airport security within a few months of it tightening after 9/11.

I think you are right expecialy with the pre 9/11 left wing dominated media.

[joe mama]

Did you look at Farenheit 9/11 ?

Yeah, I particularly like the part where Osama calls Bush and says it'll be flight 11, 175, 93 and the other one, and gives the seat numbers for the highjackers, and tells Bush his wife blows dogs and his feet smell, and Bush says "well doggone if you ain't tellin the truth pardner! my feet do smell!" and that's that. It contrasts well with the other part that shows that from 92 to 00, Clinton, wearing Oakleys, of course, personally scoured the earth looking for Osama, and the only thing that kept Bill from finding and gutting him was Bush's personal helicopter picking up Osama everytime great white hunter got close enough to throw a wet cigar that stank like Monica at him.

[sir-chimp]

Did you look at Farenheit 9/11 ?

Yeah, I particularly like the part where Osama calls Bush and says it'll be flight 11, 175, 93 and the other one, and gives the seat numbers for the highjackers, and tells Bush his wife blows dogs and his feet smell, and Bush says "well doggone if you ain't tellin the truth pardner! my feet do smell!" and that's that. It contrasts well with the other part that shows that from 92 to 00, Clinton, wearing Oakleys, of course, personally scoured the earth looking for Osama, and the only thing that kept Bill from finding and gutting him was Bush's personal helicopter picking up Osama everytime great white hunter got close enough to throw a wet cigar that stank like Monica at him. rofl

[BarkingSquirrel]

Did you look at Farenheit 9/11 ?No, we prefer things that aren't delusions of a nutcase.

[divisionbyzero]

Did you look at Farenheit 9/11 ?No, we prefer things that aren't delusions of a nutcase.
Examples please.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Hope you have plenty of time to read. (http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/) Hell, the Heston NRA speech that he cut and pasted together from 2 seperate speeches that had nothing to do with the speech moore made out of them, should say enough about the piece of **** he is. That is, unless you believe people regularly change their shirts and ties (http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/hestonrally1.htm) to different colors in 1 millisecond during a speech

[divisionbyzero]

That shows he is willing to manipulate the facts to form his own version of the truth, not that he is a nutcase

[sir-chimp]

That shows he is willing to manipulate the facts to form his own version of the truth, not that he is a nutcase

rofl that has to be one of the most creative answers I have ever heard.

[divisionbyzero]

Maybe you dont see a difference, but I definitely can.

[sir-chimp]

Maybe you dont see a difference, but I definitely can.

I just like your wording man. My self I dont think Michael Moore is mentaly ill. I think the man is about as sane as a cynical salesman can get. When it comes to his facts and movies I think Moore is simply the PT. Barnum of our day.

[divisionbyzero]

In that case, we are in agreement.

[BarkingSquirrel]

That shows he is willing to manipulate the facts to form his own version of the truth, not that he is a nutcase

rofl that has to be one of the most creative answers I have ever heard.Apparently he doesn't see how Moore completely ignoring facts and going so far as to completely fabricate things to fit his personal reality makes him delusional.

As for him not being mentally ill, look up the symptoms of narcissism, and compare them to what he does and says. I personally know two psychologists who would absolutely love to get him on their couches.

[sir-chimp]

That shows he is willing to manipulate the facts to form his own version of the truth, not that he is a nutcase

rofl that has to be one of the most creative answers I have ever heard.Apparently he doesn't see how Moore completely ignoring facts and going so far as to completely fabricate things to fit his personal reality makes him delusional.

As for him not being mentally ill, look up the symptoms of narcissism, and compare them to what he does and says. I personally know two psychologists who would absolutely love to get him on their couches.

I think Moore does what he does simply because it sells. The dirty secret about Moore is he is the capitalistic white guy he claims to hate, of couse so are all the other rich liberals when it comes to their money, but thats beside the point. True, he may be narcissitic, it is obvious he loves the attention of those who worship him, but I think his love of their money is greater.

[BarkingSquirrel]

No disagreement there. It's only one of his many hypocrisies. My point however was to demonstrate how he actively deforms facts to try and make them fit his own reality. Completely bat**** crazy or not, he is most definetely mentally ill.