Another murder in "Gun Free" UK

[Oddbod]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4193250.stm

So much for gun control.

Disarm the law-abiding & the lawless know they have free rein :roll:

[Chulo]

who says gun control stops people from being people? the fact is, no matter what you do and what control you enforce, people will do things and killings will happen. maybe what you should do is do a compairison and killings based on population density and demographics, and im sure you may see a diffrence.

[Argyll]

Yes good point,I can't even remember if there was ever a murder in my local town,let alone any incident involving a firearm.......which has the population of some 15-20,000 inhabitants!!

Funny but I seem to recal people getting killed/assaulted with firearms prior to the Dunblane act... :roll:

Infact given the size of Scotland and the population,I wonder just how many have died through criminal firearms related incidents since the banning of handguns,compared to the same questions pre ban!!?

[Herrmannek]

YOu don't hear about guns because those who ussualy before were killed with guns are now killed with something else if any. Most of the murders is made to and by people who know each other. Its like 4/5 of murders anyway so gun posession or lack of it isn't a factor here.

On the side note I haven't heard about 20000 thousands cities with murder problems nowhere in Europe :). Esspecialy murders are counted by one digit numbers per 100000 of citizens and most of them never hits the headlines :)

[Smok]

In Poland for 20 months you can have black powder weapons without any permissions. Even revolvers. Just walk into the shop, show your ID (you must be adult) and you can buy a gun. No one was killed by black powder weapons. But many people were killed by forbidden machine weapons, knifes, baseball bats and so on.
So gun isn't a problem. You can kill even with bare hands. But disarmed society is easier to control.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I know Austalia has bugger all murders.

[BarkingSquirrel]

In Poland for 20 months you can have black powder weapons without any permissions. Even revolvers. Just walk into the shop, show your ID (you must be adult) and you can buy a gun. No one was killed by black powder weapons. But many people were killed by forbidden machine weapons, knifes, baseball bats and so on.
So gun isn't a problem. You can kill even with bare hands. But disarmed society is easier to control.DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! Geezah tell him what he's won!

[Icar]

YOu don't hear about guns because those who ussualy before were killed with guns are now killed with something else if any. Most of the murders is made to and by people who know each other. Its like 4/5 of murders anyway so gun posession or lack of it isn't a factor here.

On the side note I haven't heard about 20000 thousands cities with murder problems nowhere in Europe :). Esspecialy murders are counted by one digit numbers per 100000 of citizens and most of them never hits the headlines :)

True. But it`s harder to kill someone with bare hands. Imagine some crazy argues between drunk peoples and gun in their hands. Not to mention that many people die simply from accidental use of weapon in countries where most of people legally own weapons.

In the place where my father works one of employees almost shot coworker because he was playing with gun. And he was ex-army. He sholud be resposible. And in Poland it`s harde to get a permission than in many countries. Accident`s like these aren`t often registered because arest even notified to police. It`s sad but most of people are not enough resposible to carry a weapon.

[Smok]

It is true. I think that if you want to have a gun you should pass psychological tests and course "how to use gun safety". Just like in Poland but in our country police can just say "we will not give you permission".
Accidents are everywhere. And many people die because they are killed by electricity but id doesn't mean that we should buldoze all power stations.

[Geezah]

When I lived in Old Isleworth, there was this old woman a few doors down from me, she used to leave her door open during the day in the summer(while she was home of course) and she used to run a piece of string with her door key down passed the letter box.
I never remember her house ever being broken into, what has changed so much int he past 25 to 30yrs that you wouldn't dream of doing this now? :(


Four males, including a 14-year-old, have been arrested after a woman holding a baby was shot dead by gunmen at a family christening party.
Three males gatecrashed the celebration and opened fire on about 100 guests on Saturday in Peckham, south London.

Zainab Kalokoh, 32, from Stratford, east London, died in hospital. The child she was holding, who was not related to her, was unharmed.

The four arrested are aged 14, 16, 19 and 33, police said.

[CMNot]

I particularly loved the "gun free" in speech marks in the title.

So, who ever claimed that? :lol:

[GrantT]

So if guns were legal would these men have used something like a baseball bat instead or am I missing something?

[Smok]

So if guns were legal would these men have used something like a baseball bat instead or am I missing something?

Yes. In Poland black powder guns are legal but most murders are made with knifes and no one was made with BP gun.

[Geezah]

So if guns were legal would these men have used something like a baseball bat instead or am I missing something?

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. If it was legal for law abiding citizens to own and carry firearms for their defense and the defense of loved one or innocent third parties, you would see a dramatic decline in these bullies using them.
In the early parts of the last century, it was not uncommon for Brits to own and carry firearms for protection and even though firearms were everywhere, firearm related crime was extremely low.

Now you may comeback and give an extreme example(something about busting a cap) to debunk my post, but as more and more States incorperate some form of CCW(Concelaed Carry), violent crime is decreasing. Allot of it is the intimidation value, if you have me, who is 6'4" 200+lbs and Grany who is 5'2" 120lbs wet, Granny is the most appealing target to a criminal. Well, in the States where CCW is legal, the crims do not know if Granny is armed or if I am armed, and in allot of cases they are not willing to taking the chance, Granny could be packing a .357.
Owning a firearm and carrying equalizes the situation, allot of people say we are paranoid, I say we are realists.

Just imagine that there was a good chance every adult over 21 was legally armed at that party, what do you think the chances are of these scumbag heathens going in and shooting the place up and making it out alive?

[GrantT]

Just imagine that there was a good chance every adult over 21 was legally armed at that party, what do you think the chances are of these scumbag heathens going in and shooting the place up and making it out alive?

Ok so let's take the situation that every adult at the christening party was armed, wouldn't the ensuing firefight between the murderers and law-abiding folk with guns cause a lot more injuries or even deaths?

It's the same case if Maureen from number 52 was packing a revolver everytime she got her bread and milk from the local shop. Who says that a 70-odd year old is proficient with such a weapon in a frightening situation such as a mugging, riddled with nerves that old woman could easily miss and the stray bullet could hit a passing child.

Surely it would be safer in the name of self-defense for a law abiding citizen to have a can of pepper spray at the ready or at least a taser instead of a gun.

[Geezah]

Just imagine that there was a good chance every adult over 21 was legally armed at that party, what do you think the chances are of these scumbag heathens going in and shooting the place up and making it out alive?

Ok so let's take the situation that every adult at the christening party was armed, wouldn't the ensuing firefight between the murderers and law-abiding folk with guns cause a lot more injuries or even deaths?

Who's to say it would have even got to a firefight if everyone was armed and the crims were fully aware that all law abiding citizens had the right to be armed. A one sided firefight already took place, so if the victims were able to fight back this would not be a bad thing.



It's the same case if Maureen from number 52 was packing a revolver everytime she got her bread and milk from the local shop. Who says that a 70-odd year old is proficient with such a weapon in a frightening situation such as a mugging, riddled with nerves that old woman could easily miss and the stray bullet could hit a passing child.

So you would prefer that she be mugged for fear that this old ladies wits may not be what they once were. What if she took her CCW and passed the written and pratical side of the test, would you still say she shouldn't be allowed to defend herself?



Surely it would be safer in the name of self-defense for a law abiding citizen to have a can of pepper spray at the ready or at least a taser instead of a gun.

Safer for who, the crim or the potential victim?
I understand that Britain has gone down a path where owning a firearm is looked down upon, but I would prefer that if the law abiding have passed all the neccessary checks, let them be armed with boom sticks.

[EsoognomEhT]

Foolish people! The only way to solve gun crime is more guns!

[Geezah]

Foolish people! The only way to solve gun crime is more guns!

Not at all, during a time in Britain when firearm ownership was quite widespread, the reports of firearms crime were extremely low. More firearms less firearm crime, now you have, less firearms and more firearm crime, just how does that work?

[joshfox0]

an armed society is a polite society but because of the Ban there is too much glamour about gun culture now so reversing the ban would cause a slight increase in gun crime if they had never banned atall there wouldn't have been a noticeable rise in guncrime atall if anything it would've leveled off.

[EsoognomEhT]

Its called society change, it happens over time. Its like trying to say the right to bear arms is relevant now..oops how that slip out? ;)

[Secret Squirrel]

Its called society change, it happens over time. Its like trying to say the right to bear arms is relevant now..oops how that slip out? ;)

Homer: But I have to have a gun! It's in the Constitution!

Lisa: Dad! The Second Amendment is just a remnant from revolutionary days. It has no meaning today!

Homer: You couldn't be more wrong, Lisa. If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here any time he wants, and start
shoving you around. [pushing Lisa] Do you want that? [pushing her harder] Huh? Do you?

Lisa: [quietly indignant] No...

Homer: All right, then.

[Geezah]

Its called society change, it happens over time. Its like trying to say the right to bear arms is relevant now..oops how that slip out? ;)

Actually, reading some of what the founding fathers wrote was well ahead of it's time, and the idea that an individual should have the right to protect himself and family from tyranny no matter which direction it comes from, is not irrelevent.