XM 8

[Johnny]

If the USA end up going with the XM 8 Assualt rifle do you think that Canada will go along as well

[Chulo]

if? i dont think the xm8 is goin to make it in the present configeration.. its an old arugment.
but what i can say is.. canada being the younger brother will ofcouse do what ever u.s does.. :P

[kutter]

Canada will probably just continue coming up with upgraded versions of the C7 (hey, its still got lots of life left in it) instead of adopting the XM8. Either that or get the G36 like everybody else.

[rob]

Canada will probably just continue coming up with upgraded versions of the C7 (hey, its still got lots of life left in it) instead of adopting the XM8. Either that or get the G36 like everybody else.

agreed, canada will have the sense to keep the c7

[Gordon]

is the performance of the C7 more or less the same as the m16?

Supposedly better, that's why the brits adopted it over the M16, that's what i heard.

Maybe Royal (or someone else knowledgable) is around, he knows.

[SFWanabe]

I think we should adopt the G-36,but thats just me.

[SMGLee]

Why do this subject pop up every so often???


No, US will most likely not adapt a Modualr Weapon system anytime soon and No Canadian military will most likely stick to the C7/C8 family.

M16 family will likely be continued past 2009. Look at SOPMOD block2, it still has not finalized some of the major details....

[SFWanabe]

May I ask what makes you think that?

[K.Johnston]

Why do this subject pop up every so often???


No, US will most likely not adapt a Modualr Weapon system anytime soon and No Canadian military will most likely stick to the C7/C8 family.

M16 family will likely be continued past 2009. Look at SOPMOD block2, it still has not finalized some of the major details....


links plz thnx

[SMGLee]

May I ask what makes you think that?

Makes me think of what?? The XM8 part?? or the EOL for M16 or the canadian part??

EOL on M16 has been public for a while. The system is getting old and US military is looking to replace it some time in the future.. This is why the new Modular Weapon JORD has been released and the manufactures is jumping to get themselves lined up. the Modular is a spin off of the XM8 which is a spin off from the OCIW. so no matter how you spin it, US military is looking to a new infantry weapon system soon. This is also evident from the SCAR project which is on hold because of the Modular JORD. just a small peep at the process... there is so much background stories...

Canadian is happy with the C8, they are not going to invest money in the new weapon platform, money is the name of the game for a lowly finance arm force of Canada. fine group of soldiers but poorly equipped by their gov't.

XM8 is not the ticket at least for now. this is why the JORD for the modular weapon sytem. this is a call out to all manufacture to come up with design to compete equally with XM8. as far as XM8 was concern, it was never a competition between manufacture. Army took the project and ran with it. it was basically shove down HK's throat to come up with something since it is as stated a spin off of hte OCIW and HK was already the rifle part of the project. Naturaly the request gone to HK to further develope that part into the XM8.

SOPMOD block has some of the components decided, but some are still up in the air, the most important being the rail system... so once the SOPMOD block 2 is deployed, it will take a few years to complete and there is SOPMOD block 3...so M16 being replaced will be further down the line.
ok, I need a break..

[K.Johnston]

umm pics of sopmod block 2? wth is it

[Geezah]

Didn't I hear on this forum that Colt owns Diemco?

[kutter]

Didn't I hear on this forum that Colt owns Diemco?

Thats correct. Diemaco was purchased by Colt a month or two ago.

[Spartan117300]

XM8 might as well be considered finished, some kinda breach of contract

[SFWanabe]

What do you mean Spartan?

[SMGLee]

XM8 might as well be considered finished, some kinda breach of contract

Excatly who breached whom?? XM8 is an Army project ran by the PMO and all spec were called out by the big green machine.... HK came along for the ride sionce it was originally the rifle part of the OICW. so who's contract did XM8 breach??

XM8 is not dead, it is still breathing... With money from General dynamics.... XM8 still is a force to be. the only difference is now there is competitors entering the fray.

[memphiz]

The C7 has on been in service only since 1986 (19 years) and the US has had their M16 since Vietnam so most likely you'll see the US switch their rifle system before us.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

Mmm, I'm pretty sure we got the flattop uppers (C7A1) army-wide while even DELTA!!11eleven was still tooling around putting scopes on their carrying handles! GO Canada! woot

Well, we fired the guy who came up with that harebrained idea, and after that we never did anything smart ever again! rofl

[Gene2]

I believe even though SOCOM is going there way with weapons, the Army is going there own way and dragging this XM8 project all the way. A while back, the XM29 and G36 were going to be looked at by the army, but both the ideas were scrapped. I wouldn't be suprised if the same happens here with the XM8. But time will tell.

[dangerdan87]

Well, sence the Army is testing it, I wouldnt be supprised if they droped it...like the Commanche...that we spent our hard earned money on (taxes :( ) and never heard a bad thing about it.
I still cant belive the Army is trying to develope a uniform that changes color due to condition and bullets that tell friend from foe and follow the target...riduculous if you ask me. I think some of those Army develpers watched too much Star Wars type movies..and try to make it reality.
If anyone watch the show im thinking about with the Army dude in a black suit with a helmet (looks like a motorcycle uniform and helmet), you should know what im talking about.

Meh..sorry for the rant, i get carried away sometimes.

[rob]

Well, sence the Army is testing it, I wouldnt be supprised if they droped it...like the Commanche...that we spent our hard earned money on (taxes :( ) and never heard a bad thing about it.
I still cant belive the Army is trying to develope a uniform that changes color due to condition and bullets that tell friend from foe and follow the target...riduculous if you ask me. I think some of those Army develpers watched too much Star Wars type movies..and try to make it reality.
If anyone watch the show im thinking about with the Army dude in a black suit with a helmet (looks like a motorcycle uniform and helmet), you should know what im talking about.

Meh..sorry for the rant, i get carried away sometimes.

thay actually can make more work then most people can imagine, the problem is making it cheap and user friendly, along with practicle enough to make issue.

[cmdrfire]

Well, sence the Army is testing it, I wouldnt be supprised if they droped it...like the Commanche...that we spent our hard earned money on (taxes :( ) and never heard a bad thing about it.
I still cant belive the Army is trying to develope a uniform that changes color due to condition and bullets that tell friend from foe and follow the target...riduculous if you ask me. I think some of those Army develpers watched too much Star Wars type movies..and try to make it reality.
If anyone watch the show im thinking about with the Army dude in a black suit with a helmet (looks like a motorcycle uniform and helmet), you should know what im talking about.

Meh..sorry for the rant, i get carried away sometimes.

They have. It's called the ACU, and opinion on it varies greatly.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51187&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[EsoognomEhT]

it changes colour? What like those cool 90s t-shirts?

Can it change so it looks a tad less gay?

[cmdrfire]

it changes colour? What like those cool 90s t-shirts?

Can it change so it looks a tad less gay?
rofl

It's my understanding that it's meant to change colour based on lighting... which is why it looks bright blue/greeny under flash.
As to its effectiveness... who am I to question the decisions of the US Army? p-)

[Spartan117300]

I think we should adopt the G-36,but thats just me.

agreed man

[Spartan117300]

I have nothing to do with any weapons development and I dont know anyone who is but i had heard that the XM8 went from being a sure winner to being put on the back burner, the explenation I heard was that H&K had some unfair support from the army and the entire competition was fixed in some way, thats all I know, had anyone else heard this?

[Aerosoul]

I think we should adopt the G-36,but thats just me.

agreed man

have you fired it?

[K.Johnston]

I have nothing to do with any weapons development and I dont know anyone who is but i had heard that the XM8 went from being a sure winner to being put on the back burner, the explenation I heard was that H&K had some unfair support from the army and the entire competition was fixed in some way, thats all I know, had anyone else heard this?

the army's always fixing things... even the stoner rifles were tested under horrible conditions with faulty guns... but it still passed

[Spartan117300]

I think we should adopt the G-36,but thats just me.

agreed man

have you fired it?

only once, that was in Iraq last year, we did some CQB drills with Brits, I would prefer it to the M4 personally

[Aerosoul]

Yeah, you've said that before.

So what unit are you with?

[Spartan117300]

does it matter?

[Aerosoul]

Haha....here comes the defense. You got a SF tab as an avtar. You an SF guy?

And I find it odd that after firing a rifle only once, or so you claim, that you prefer it over the M16/M4 line that's been used and trusted by nearly all the others I've spoken to that use it.
For decades we've used it, and most active guys like it more than other assault rifles for combat.

[EsoognomEhT]

96B Counter Intelligence perhaps?

[Spartan117300]

Im tired of having people try to crucify whatever I say. I say I fired it, I fired it, bottom line, you want my shipdates? My commanders names, My deployment and TDY records, this is supposed to be some conversational site right?

[Aerosoul]

Haha, give us the goods, boy.

[SMGLee]

I have nothing to do with any weapons development and I dont know anyone who is but i had heard that the XM8 went from being a sure winner to being put on the back burner, the explenation I heard was that H&K had some unfair support from the army and the entire competition was fixed in some way, thats all I know, had anyone else heard this?

Unfair competitiion has been an issue with the XM8 but it is not HK's fault.. They went along for the ride. The XM8 project is a solely US Army project to start with. Army asked HK to further develope the rifle part of the OICW and XM8 is the spin off of that request. This is a way for the generals that supported the OICW to save face and career. I repest, XM8 is an Army project and some congressional peeps request the competition to be open to the public, this is why you have the current Modular weapons requirement. Got it...

So in conclusion, it is Army that dished out the unfair competition, it has nothing to do with HK. Stop thinking XM8 as a HK gun, it is an US Army gun...HK only supplied the basic design ie G36 and manufactureing capability. You think HK came up with the P-CAP mopunting system?? you know what P stands for?? Picatinny Arensal.... They came up with the new attachment point. this is also why there is a XM8-R for those branches that might not want to upgrade all their 1913std rail accessories to accommdated Army's wild hair idea.

[SMGLee]

I think we should adopt the G-36,but thats just me.

agreed man

have you fired it?

only once, that was in Iraq last year, we did some CQB drills with Brits, I would prefer it to the M4 personally

what freaking British units was using the G36 in field?? I know of no British military unit in the sand box running G36s. I know a few close protection units running the HK 53s but no one I know use G36... SAS run C8 diemacos which is another version of the M16 family. :cantbeli:

I think you are pretty full of it.... :bash:

No self respecting US SOCOM personnel I have ever spoken to like the G36 and I have talked to and shot with many... M4 is their preferred platform. they hated the XM8. I was at a local shoot with some SOCOM personnel before heading over to the sand box early last year...
M4 was what they carried and they had a XM8 along for field testing.. no one said one good word about the XM8.

[Aerosoul]

what freaking British units was using the G36 in field?? I know of no British military unit in the sand box running G36s. I know a few close protection units running the HK 53s but no one I know use G36... SAS run C8 diemacos which is another version of the M16 family. :cantbeli:

I think you are pretty full of it.... :bash:

we all do...

[Jedburgh]

Im tired of having people try to crucify whatever I say.
You wouldn't have that problem if you would have been honest on the board and hadn't tried to be something that you are not.

Remember this post:
i went 96B when i first joined up, i have to be language qualified and jump/air assault qualified, sf loves that stuff, so i got picked up. went to 3rd, got out, and now work with intel again.
Once again, 96B is not a language dependent MI MOS - and it is also not CI - 97B is CI and 96B is intel analyst. You would not get trained in a language by enlisting in either MOS. Only 97E and 98G require a language. No MI MOS requires air assault or airborne - but you can get it guaranteed in your contract. As a cherry enlistee you don't get "picked up" for SF - DA assigns you based on needs of the Army; if that happens to be an SF Group, so be it. They do have skill level one 96B slots, but they do not have skill level one 97B slots.

You're spouting a miscegenated line of utter BS and poorly researched second-hand info about the military and weapons to a board which is heavily populated by people who have a great deal of experience with both. Give it up.

[BadKarma26]

Haha....here comes the defense. You got a SF tab as an avtar. You an SF guy?

And I find it odd that after firing a rifle only once, or so you claim, that you prefer it over the M16/M4 line that's been used and trusted by nearly all the others I've spoken to that use it.
For decades we've used it, and most active guys like it more than other assault rifles for combat.

Hes entitled to his opinion. You aren't even in the military Silencer. (no offense) Atleast he's been to Iraq.

[James]

Haha....here comes the defense. You got a SF tab as an avtar. You an SF guy?

And I find it odd that after firing a rifle only once, or so you claim, that you prefer it over the M16/M4 line that's been used and trusted by nearly all the others I've spoken to that use it.
For decades we've used it, and most active guys like it more than other assault rifles for combat.

Hes entitled to his opinion. You aren't even in the military Silencer. (no offense) Atleast he's been to Iraq.

Well, he says so anyway... :roll: I wonder...

[Chuck6d]

Haha....here comes the defense. You got a SF tab as an avtar. You an SF guy?

And I find it odd that after firing a rifle only once, or so you claim, that you prefer it over the M16/M4 line that's been used and trusted by nearly all the others I've spoken to that use it.
For decades we've used it, and most active guys like it more than other assault rifles for combat.

Hes entitled to his opinion. You aren't even in the military Silencer. (no offense) Atleast he's been to Iraq.

Well, he says so anyway... :roll: I wonder...

Nobody likes Posers....A lot of people worked very hard to get where they are at. It does them no justice to have people saying they are something they are not.

[Spartan117300]

Never figured I'd have to explain myself like this, and I'm not gonna. A good website I figured would have good forums, but I'm not gonna have everything I say nitpicked by 13 year olds who search the net for info on our units. This really is sad, I paid years of my life in the woods, the desert, I've bled and sweated to earn where I am today and i sure as hell didnt do a damn thing to deserve this petty ****.

[SMGLee]

Nevermind...... :cantbeli:

[Mick]

go post on lighfighter forums and see what happens....

[Chuck6d]

Never figured I'd have to explain myself like this, and I'm not gonna. A good website I figured would have good forums, but I'm not gonna have everything I say nitpicked by 13 year olds who search the net for info on our units. This really is sad, I paid years of my life in the woods, the desert, I've bled and sweated to earn where I am today and i sure as hell didnt do a damn thing to deserve this petty ****.

Dude,

I don't think the guys shooting holes in your posts are 13 year olds. I think most of us are Active Duty or folks in the know. But like Mick said post on LF.net or Socnet and see how far you get with some of your posts. You might of worked with SF as a support guy or whatever. If so good on you. But your posts on weapon systems are way off and might impress some 13 yr olds. Doesn't sound like someone from the 18 series.

[Gene2]

I'm not in the service, but I am almost 16 years old. I have researched military technology and information from the department of defense for about 5 years so far.

Anyway, it is a good thing that the XM8 is being tested as much as it is because ever since the M16 versions in the early 1960's was jamming and acting like ****, I think the military wants to be careful that the same crap doesn't happen again for our troops.

-Oh, by the way, anyone on this forum that is in the service, I am praying for you guys and ladies every day, and wish you the best of luck-

[Gene2]

www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater

[cmdrfire]

I'm not in the service, but I am almost 16 years old. I have researched military technology and information from the department of defense for about 5 years so far.

Anyway, it is a good thing that the XM8 is being tested as much as it is because ever since the M16 versions in the early 1960's was jamming and acting like ****, I think the military wants to be careful that the same crap doesn't happen again for our troops.

-Oh, by the way, anyone on this forum that is in the service, I am praying for you guys and ladies every day, and wish you the best of luck-

Stop that, you're making me feel very old (!).
And as to the US Military being careful regarding stuff going to the troops -
1. Please refer to the introduction of the MOLLE system.
2. M16A1 as issued to US Army in Viet Nam was a highly reliable weapons platform. Initial problems encountered in the early AR15s and M16s issued to SF/ARVN/certain USMC and USAF units were due to a combination of errors, ranging from type of ammunition used to the materials used in construction of the gas tube. There are many on this site far more knowledgeable about this than me, but that'll do for the moment.

The XM8 has (supposedly) been tested (amongst other ways) by firing several tens of thousands of rounds without cleaning without a jam, well past the tolerances of an M16. I don't think it's testing any more that's the issue - I believe that (as people have been talking about) it's turned into a contractual issue of some kind.

And learn how to use the EDIT button.

[Jedburgh]

Never figured I'd have to explain myself like this, and I'm not gonna. A good website I figured would have good forums, but I'm not gonna have everything I say nitpicked by 13 year olds who search the net for info on our units. This really is sad, I paid years of my life in the woods, the desert, I've bled and sweated to earn where I am today and i sure as hell didnt do a damn thing to deserve this petty ****.
:roll:
You just don't know when to quit, do you?

You have been caught out in blatant lies, exaggeration and misrepresentations, but, instead of explaining yourself and/or apologizing, you continue to build on your record. Enough already.

[James]

Never figured I'd have to explain myself like this, and I'm not gonna. A good website I figured would have good forums, but I'm not gonna have everything I say nitpicked by 13 year olds who search the net for info on our units. This really is sad, I paid years of my life in the woods, the desert, I've bled and sweated to earn where I am today and i sure as hell didnt do a damn thing to deserve this petty ****.

Thank you for your service. Many of us have also paid with blood and sweat. I'm not 13, btw... I'm 31, a USMC vet, and I currently work for a PMC.
Just act open and honest here, and people will come to respect what you have to say. If you have something to contribute, good to go. Jumping in with both feet and telling people "I'm this" won't get you so far. So much for being a "silent professional" eh?

Live and learn, and have a good one.

[Ea$y-8]

I think we should adopt the XM8 or G36.

[toki]

I think we should adopt the XM8 or G36.
check out these links on the HK416! I think that's interesting.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_HK416,,00.html

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=770

especially what the evaluators say!
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2005_comments#416

[Little J]

SMG Lee, could you please clarify (sp?) which bits the socom lads didnt like about the xm8... Other than the mass of plastic it appears to do everything that a M4 can (from my civilian arm chair, that is :( )

[dangerdan87]

Well, sence the Army is testing it, I wouldnt be supprised if they droped it...like the Commanche...that we spent our hard earned money on (taxes :( ) and never heard a bad thing about it.
I still cant belive the Army is trying to develope a uniform that changes color due to condition and bullets that tell friend from foe and follow the target...riduculous if you ask me. I think some of those Army develpers watched too much Star Wars type movies..and try to make it reality.
If anyone watch the show im thinking about with the Army dude in a black suit with a helmet (looks like a motorcycle uniform and helmet), you should know what im talking about.

Meh..sorry for the rant, i get carried away sometimes.

They have. It's called the ACU, and opinion on it varies greatly.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51187&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

No, it wasnt the ACU...it was some black uniform...it looked like some SCI-FI peice of crap that would never work.

[cmdrfire]

Well, sence the Army is testing it, I wouldnt be supprised if they droped it...like the Commanche...that we spent our hard earned money on (taxes :( ) and never heard a bad thing about it.
I still cant belive the Army is trying to develope a uniform that changes color due to condition and bullets that tell friend from foe and follow the target...riduculous if you ask me. I think some of those Army develpers watched too much Star Wars type movies..and try to make it reality.
If anyone watch the show im thinking about with the Army dude in a black suit with a helmet (looks like a motorcycle uniform and helmet), you should know what im talking about.

Meh..sorry for the rant, i get carried away sometimes.

They have. It's called the ACU, and opinion on it varies greatly.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51187&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

No, it wasnt the ACU...it was some black uniform...it looked like some SCI-FI peice of crap that would never work.

Oh, the Future Force Warrior 2020 chameleoline (spelling? is that even the right name anymore?) thing, I getcha. Meant to work using cameras detecting ambient lighting, or somesuch.
They've already got several proof-of-concepts; I recall seeing a big truck or something be outfitted with the system blend in pretty well with a forest. Of course, it's a long way from the truck to a flexible, lightweight battledress, but engineering will find a way...
I'd find you some links, but it's 0134 in the morning and I'm heading to sleep.
Remember also that spacecraft, helicopters, computers, satellites, and heads-up-displays were once the domain of SciFi (Heinlein actually predicted helmet-mounted HUDs in Starship Troopers, as well as the concept of powered armour which is also steadily being realised).

[SMGLee]

SMG Lee, could you please clarify (sp?) which bits the socom lads didnt like about the xm8... Other than the mass of plastic it appears to do everything that a M4 can (from my civilian arm chair, that is :( )

Bad magazine design was the first point of view.

The P-Cap was crap since 1913 was a better mounting solution.

Egronomics are not as well designed as the M4/M16

Spend the amazing amount of money on a gun that might .... might be marginaaly better then the M4 while those funds can be better spend on other things that are badly need it.

They actually want the HK 416, and this year they got their wish... A batch of M416 was deployed and happy happy, joy, joy.

[Roids]

I say give the SR 47s a try ;)

[Michael RVR]

They actually want the HK 416, and this year they got their wish... A batch of M416 was deployed and happy happy, joy, joy.

Not the scar ?

[Bulabash]

isnt the XM 8 just a G36 in different "clothes", has the same mags and looks the same if you look beyond the plastics

[Seraphim]

SMG Lee, could you please clarify (sp?) which bits the socom lads didnt like about the xm8... Other than the mass of plastic it appears to do everything that a M4 can (from my civilian arm chair, that is :( )

Bad magazine design was the first point of view.

The P-Cap was crap since 1913 was a better mounting solution.

Egronomics are not as well designed as the M4/M16

Spend the amazing amount of money on a gun that might .... might be marginaaly better then the M4 while those funds can be better spend on other things that are badly need it.

They actually want the HK 416, and this year they got their wish... A batch of M416 was deployed and happy happy, joy, joy.

Are they using the drum sights or regular AR sights?

[MEGR]

SMG Lee, could you please clarify (sp?) which bits the socom lads didnt like about the xm8... Other than the mass of plastic it appears to do everything that a M4 can (from my civilian arm chair, that is :( )

Bad magazine design was the first point of view.

The P-Cap was crap since 1913 was a better mounting solution.

Egronomics are not as well designed as the M4/M16

Spend the amazing amount of money on a gun that might .... might be marginaaly better then the M4 while those funds can be better spend on other things that are badly need it.

They actually want the HK 416, and this year they got their wish... A batch of M416 was deployed and happy happy, joy, joy.

Are they using the drum sights or regular AR sights?

http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/416-14main.jpg

It looks like they are sticking to their drum.

[SMGLee]

I say give the SR 47s a try ;)

SR47 never worked....





They actually want the HK 416, and this year they got their wish... A batch of M416 was deployed and happy happy, joy, joy.

Not the scar ?

SCAR has not started production yet... Currently HK M416 is being delivered to military and Fed LE only. Getting the upper and mating to their existing M4 lower with SOPMOD stock, optics are basically Aimpoints, EOTech or the S&B short dot...



[quote="†SeraphimAre they using the drum sights or regular AR sights?[/quote]

Drum sights, and no sights. If you notice the pic MEGR put up, the upper receiver is 3/8inch higher then a standard A4 upper. only their rear sight will work properly.

[MEGR]

Lee,

Is HK thinking about making uppers that fire higher caliber rounds? I mean, are they hopping onto the 6.8 bandwagon?

[TuNeRsHaRk]

i read something about that in national rifleman but i dont remember what it said lol

[Little J]

SMG Lee, thanks,
nice to hear there got what they wanted... in the end :lol:

[SMGLee]

Lee,

Is HK thinking about making uppers that fire higher caliber rounds? I mean, are they hopping onto the 6.8 bandwagon?

No word on the 6.8... as slow as HK has been on delivering the M416, I have doubt that the sustem will receive additional caliber any time soon. all M416 is still manufactured in Germany... HK is moving to Alabama by the end of the year, we will have too what happens then...

I played with the M416 pretty extensively. It is not too hard to get Compass lake or someone with the proper 68 spec to cut a barrel, bore out the bolt on the M416 and off you go..... with some PRI 68 magazine. it can be done.