Original terrorism

[OnTheRocks]

The Bombing Of The King David Hotel

July 22, 1946

The King David Hotel explosion of July 22, 1946 (Palestine), which resulted in the deaths of 92 Britons, Arabs and Jews, and in the wounding of 58, was not just an act of “Jewish extremists,” but a premeditated massacre conducted by the Irgun in agreement with the highest Jewish political authorities in Palestine-- the Jewish Agency and its head David-Ben-Gurion. According to Yitshaq Ben-Ami, a Palestinian Jew who spent 30 years in exile after the establishment of Israel investigating the crimes of the “ruthless clique heading the internal Zionist movement,” The Irgun had conceived a plan for the King David attack early in 1946, but the green light was given only on July first. According to Dr. Sneh, the operation was personally approved by Ben-Gurion, from his self-exile in Europe. Sadeh, the operations officer of the Haganah, and Giddy Paglin, the head of the Irgun operation under Menachem Begin agreed that thirty-five minutes advance notice would give the British time enough to evacuate the wing, without enabling them to disarm the explosion. The Jewish Agency’s motive was to destroy all evidence the British had gathered proving that the terrorist crime waves in Palestine were not merely the actions of “fringe” groups such as the Irgun and Stern Gang, but were committed in collusion with the Haganah and Palmach groups and under the direction of the highest political body of the Zionist establishment itself, namely the Jewish Agency. That so many innocent civilian lives were lost in the King David massacre is a normal part of the pattern of the history of Zionist outrages: A criminal act is committed, allegedly by an isolated group, but actually under the direct authorization of the highest Zionist authorities, whether of the Jewish Agency during the Palestine Mandate or of the Government of Israel thereafter.

The following is a statement made in the House of Commons by then British Prime Minister Clement Attlee: On July 22, 1946, one of the most dastardly and cowardly crimes in recorded history took place. We refer to the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. Ninety-two persons lost their lives in that stealthy attack, 45 were injured, among whom there were many high officials, junior officers and office personnel, both men and women. The King David Hotel was used as an office housing the Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army Headquarters. The attack was made on 22 July at about 12 o’clock noon when offices are usually in full swing. The attackers, disguised as milkmen, carried the explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement of the Hotel and ran away.

The Chief Secretary for the Government of Palestine, Sir John Shaw, declared in a broadcast: “As head of the Secretariat, the majority of the dead and wounded were my own staff, many of whom I have known personally for eleven years. They are more than official colleagues. British, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians; senior officers, police, my orderly, my chauffeur, messengers, guards, men and women-- young and old-- they were my friends.

“No man could wish to be served by a more industrious, loyal and honest group of ordinary decent people. Their only crime was their devoted, unselfish and impartial service to Palestine and its people. For this they have been rewarded by cold-blooded mass murder.”

Although members of the Irgun Z’vai Leumi took responsibility for this crime, yet they also made it public later that they obtained the consent and approval of the Haganah Command, and it follows, that of the Jewish Agency.

The King David Hotel massacre shocked the conscience of the civilizedworld. On July 23, Anthony Eden, leader of the British opposition Conservative Party, posed a question in the House of Commons to Prime Minister Atlee of the Labor Party, asking “the Prime Minister whether he has any statement to make on the bomb outrage at the British Headquarters in Jerusalem.” The Prime Minister responded: “…It appears that, after exploding a small bomb in the street, presumably as a diversionary measure-- this did virtually no damage-- a lorry drove up to the tradesmen’s entrance of the King David Hotel and the occupants, after holding up the staff at pistol point, entered the kitchen premises carrying a number of milk cans. At some stage of the proceedings, they shot and seriously wounded a British soldier who attempted to interfere with them. All available information so far is to the effect that they were Jews. Somewhere in the basement of the hotel they planted bombs which went off shortly afterwards. They appear to have made good their escape. “Every effort is being made to identify and arrest the perpetrators of this outrage. The work of rescue in the debris, which was immediately organized, still continues. The next-of-kin of casualties are being notified by telegram as soon as accurate information is available. The House will wish to express their profound sympathy with the relatives of the killed and with those injured in this dastardly outrage.”

Source: http://www.iap.org/kingdavidhotel.htm

[usa320]

This was the first modern use of terrorism, but by definition acts of terror could be traced back to the mongols or vikings.

[OnTheRocks]

Yes, thats true...my bad :)

[IDFM203]

Ok a number of things wrong with your post.

1) You title your post “original terrorism” and then you put up this Jewish act in 1946, just shows your lack of knowledge of the history of this conflict. (be it real ignorance or simply on purpose that you have ignored the truth to your title on what “original” means and how your event here does not fit that description in this conflict)

I mean Jews were being killed constantly way before 1946 by Arabs (and in a lot of cases with the full knowledge of the British, that never did anything to stop it and in fact encouraged it at times)

I mean right off the top of my head, the 1929 Hebron massacre (and there is more) of over 120 Jewish man women and children that were slaughtered by Arab terrorists is much more relevant to your title heading.

The second problem with your post is the article that you have brought down that you have taken from the ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE is this faulty (its an out right lie) statement “Although members of the Irgun Z’vai Leumi took responsibility for this crime, yet they also made it public later that they obtained the consent and approval of the Haganah Command, and it follows, that of the Jewish Agency." Which they base on a one or two "Jewish" (well yes they are Jewish by birth but that’s basically it for their Jewish identity and connection)scholars which are totally wrong and are against what most jewish and even non Jewish historians accurately say about irgun and their support or non support amongst the other Jews.

The fact is that irgun was not liked by the other Jewish defense organizations and this act was not supported by them and in fact it was condemned by them and most of the Jews living there and that is a stark contrast to most of the Arabs there who were in full support of when any Jewish man, women and child were slaughtered by their fellow Arabs

Lastly the I want to bring a few paragraphs from Jewish website (that takes its information from a lot of credible Jewish and non Jewish sources) that I feel more accurately details what irgun did and what was the real Jewish response to it.


The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel.

A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain's restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death.

Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties. In fact, the plan was to warn the British so they would evacuate the building before it was blown up. Three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.

On July 22, 1946, the calls were made. The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored. Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: "We don't take orders from the Jews."As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews. Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast.43

In contrast to Arab attacks against Jews, which were widely hailed by Arab leaders as heroic actions, the Jewish National Council denounced the bombing of the King David.

For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.



Shalom :D

[One?]

check this out:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/11/1662194.php

[Operation Ivy]

Ok a number of things wrong with your post.

1) You title your post “original terrorism” and then you put up this Jewish act in 1946, just shows your lack of knowledge of the history of this conflict. (be it real ignorance or simply on purpose that you have ignored the truth to your title on what “original” means and how your event here does not fit that description in this conflict)

I mean Jews were being killed constantly way before 1946 by Arabs (and in a lot of cases with the full knowledge of the British, that never did anything to stop it and in fact encouraged it at times)

I mean right off the top of my head, the 1929 Hebron massacre (and there is more) of over 120 Jewish man women and children that were slaughtered by Arab terrorists is much more relevant to your title heading.

The second problem with your post is the article that you have brought down that you have taken from the ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE is this faulty (its an out right lie) statement “Although members of the Irgun Z’vai Leumi took responsibility for this crime, yet they also made it public later that they obtained the consent and approval of the Haganah Command, and it follows, that of the Jewish Agency." Which they base on a one or two "Jewish" (well yes they are Jewish by birth but that’s basically it for their Jewish identity and connection)scholars which are totally wrong and are against what most jewish and even non Jewish historians accurately say about irgun and their support or non support amongst the other Jews.

The fact is that irgun was not liked by the other Jewish defense organizations and this act was not supported by them and in fact it was condemned by them and most of the Jews living there and that is a stark contrast to most of the Arabs there who were in full support of when any Jewish man, women and child were slaughtered by their fellow Arabs

Lastly the I want to bring a few paragraphs from Jewish website (that takes its information from a lot of credible Jewish and non Jewish sources) that I feel more accurately details what irgun did and what was the real Jewish response to it.


The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel.

A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain's restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death.

Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties. In fact, the plan was to warn the British so they would evacuate the building before it was blown up. Three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.

On July 22, 1946, the calls were made. The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored. Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: "We don't take orders from the Jews."As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews. Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast.43

In contrast to Arab attacks against Jews, which were widely hailed by Arab leaders as heroic actions, the Jewish National Council denounced the bombing of the King David.

For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.



Shalom :D

IDFM203 is back for sure :D

[Mr. Nielsen]

This was the first modern use of terrorism, but by definition acts of terror could be traced back to the mongols or vikings.

I think it's hard to say when terror showed up. I guess what's acceptable changes with time. For instance, the gaining of territory by force have been the norm through history. Then after ww2, the inadmissibilty of acquiring territory through force, became one of the fundamental principles of the international community.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I mean Jews were being killed constantly way before 1946 by Arabs

And jews were killing arabs.



(and in a lot of cases with the full knowledge of the British, that never did anything to stop it and in fact encouraged it at times)

The british actually struck down quite hard on the palestinians, one of the reasons that they were so disorganised when the UN started considering to split palestine between the palstinians and the jews.

[Mr. Nielsen]

The second problem with your post is the article that you have brought down that you have taken from the ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE is this faulty (its an out right lie)

There are many very good and objective palestinian sites out there. I haven't checked www.iap.org very closely, but its probably not worse than

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/King_David.html

[OnTheRocks]

Also if you check out other websites about this bombing they do not all agree upon many facts at all, some for instance claim that there was a telephone call made to the hotel after 5 minutes that made it possible for everyone to evacuate with 25 minutes to spare, other websites strongly claim that there was no such call and that there was no hope for the 91 people in the building.
Facts such as how much explosives that were used also vary from stie to site, some claim that 50 kg of explosives were used, others claim that 250kg were used, also some sites say that there were 6 people involved in carrying out the act whilst others claim that there was atleast 15 people.

Yet another site says that David Ben-Gurion cancelled the whole operation a short while before, but that the Irgun still went through with it.

Meaning no disrespect here to IDF M203 but since you are Israeli I am not surprised at all that you refuse to believe the site which I chose to post from here since it is a Palestinian site, and were I in your shoes I might not have believed them either. But there seems to be a strong lack of clarity on this matter and how it everything was really carried out, and since none of us were there, we only have secondary or third party sources to believe. I am open to anything, you on the other hand it seems are not.
The second problem with your post is the article that you have brought down that you have taken from the ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE is this faulty (its an out right lie)

Now the reason that I posted this in the first place was that somebody said that terror swings both ways (I think that it was in the thread dealing with the controversial "art"), and will always do so. :|

[IDFM203]

"I mean Jews were being killed constantly way before 1946 by Arabs"

And Jews were killing arabs. .before 1946?? in terrorist acts ??(Meaning not in self defense)

I ask that rhetorically for Jews were not murdering unarmed Arabs before 1946 as Arabs were doing to Jews and the few Jews that perhaps did it were a extreme minority amongst most Jews and were condemned when that happened by most Jews (when innocents were killed) which was unlike the Arabs that were not a extreme minority for a lot more were killing Jews and were in fact supported by most Arabs.

Heck go look at “one's” link, there is no point in me even debating it for the purpose of this thread (and particularly the title of it) for there it goes to back 1947 and the title of this thread is original terrorism and original terrorism was the slaughtering of unarmed Jewish man women and children (like the 1929!! Hebron massacre which is just one of many such acts) which was way before 1947 and it was mostly by the Arabs.

Just btw, The Jewish organizations like Haganaha and others only came to being after Jews were being constantly killed.

You know Haganah (which was one of the bigger Jewish defense organization) means defense in Hebrew and it started in response to the constant killing of Jews by the Arabs that were going on way before 1946.

Oh and again “ most Jews did not nor have ever supported any Jews when they have intentionally killed a civilian and irgun was not liked nor was it supported by most Jews that is in stark contrast to the Arabs where most have always fully supported their fellow Arabs killing and murdering unarmed Jewish man women and children
(and in a lot of cases with the full knowledge of the British, that never did anything to stop it and in fact encouraged it at times) “



The British actually struck down quite hard on the palestinians, one of the reasons that they were so disorganised when the UN started considering to split palestine between the palstinians and the jews. first of all the British were not hard on the Arabs then and in fact were a lot of times in “kahutz” with them against the Jews.


The following is a brief synopsis taking from many credible sources about some of the British negative attitudes against the Jews and their help to the Arabs there at a huge cost in lives to the Jews that were living there.

"In 1921, Haj Amin el-Husseini first began to organize fedayeen ("one who sacrifices himself") to terrorize Jews. Haj Amin hoped to duplicate the success of Kemal Atatrk in Turkey by driving the Jews out of Palestine just as Kemal had driven the invading Greeks from his country. Arab radicals were able to gain influence because the British Administration was unwilling to take effective action against them until they finally revolted against British rule.
Colonel Richard Meinertzhagen, former head of British military intelligence in Cairo, and later Chief Political Officer for Palestine and Syria, wrote in his diary that British officials “incline towards the exclusion of Zionism in Palestine.” In fact, the British encouraged the Palestinians to attack the Jews. According to Meinertzhagen, Col. Waters Taylor (financial adviser to the Military Administration in Palestine 1919-23) met with Haj Amin a few days before Easter, in 1920, and told him “he had a great opportunity at Easter to show the world...that Zionism was unpopular not only with the Palestine Administration but in Whitehall and if disturbances of sufficient violence occurred in Jerusalem at Easter, both General Bols [Chief Administrator in Palestine, 1919-20] and General Allenby [Commander of Egyptian Force, 1917-19, then High Commissioner of Egypt] would advocate the abandonment of the Jewish Home. Waters-Taylor explained that freedom could only be attained through violence
Haj Amin took the Colonel’s advice and instigated a riot. The British withdrew their troops and the Jewish police from Jerusalem, allowing the Arab mob to attack Jews and loot their shops. Because of Haj Amin's overt role in instigating the pogrom, the British decided to arrest him. Haj Amin escaped, however, and was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment in absentia.
A year later, some British Arabists convinced High Commissioner Herbert Samuel to pardon Haj Amin and to appoint him Mufti. By contrast, Vladimir Jabotinsky and several of his followers, who had formed a Jewish defense organization during the unrest, were sentenced to 15 years’ imprisonment.
Samuel met with Haj Amin on April 11, 1921, and was assured “that the influences of his family and himself would be devoted to tranquility.” Three weeks later, riots in Jaffa and elsewhere left 43 Jews dead.
Haj Amin consolidated his power and took control of all Muslim religious funds in Palestine. He used his authority to gain control over the mosques, the schools and the courts. No Arab could reach an influential position without being loyal to the Mufti. His power was so absolute “no Muslim in Palestine could be born or die without being beholden to Haj Amin.”The Mufti’s henchmen also insured he would have no opposition by systematically killing Palestinians from rival clans who were discussing cooperation with the Jews.
As the spokesman for Palestinian Arabs, Haj Amin did not ask that Britain grant them independence. On the contrary, in a letter to Churchill in 1921, he demanded that Palestine be reunited with Syria and Transjordan.
The Arabs found rioting to be an effective political tool because of the lax British attitude and response toward violence against Jews. In handling each riot, the British did everything in their power to prevent Jews from protecting themselves, but made little or no effort to prevent the Arabs from attacking them. After each outbreak, a British commission of inquiry would try to establish the cause of the violence. The conclusion was always the same: the Arabs were afraid of being displaced by Jews. To stop the rioting, the commissions would recommend that restrictions be placed on Jewish immigration. Thus, the Arabs came to recognize that they could always stop the influx of Jews by staging a riot.
This cycle began after a series of riots in May 1921. After failing to protect the Jewish community from Arab mobs, the British appointed the Haycraft Commission to investigate the cause of the violence. Although the panel concluded the Arabs had been the aggressors, it rationalized the cause of the attack: “The fundamental cause of the riots was a feeling among the Arabs of discontent with, and hostility to, the Jews, due to political and economic causes, and connected with Jewish immigration, and with their conception of Zionist policy....”37 One consequence of the violence was the institution of a temporary ban on Jewish immigration.
The Arab fear of being “displaced” or “dominated” was used as an excuse for their merciless attacks on peaceful Jewish settlers. Note, too, that these riots were not inspired by nationalistic fervor — nationalists would have rebelled against their British overlords — they were motivated by racial strife and misunderstanding.
In 1929, Arab provocateurs succeeded in convincing the masses that the Jews had designs on the Temple Mount (a tactic that would be repeated on numerous occasions, the most recent of which was in 2000 after the visit of Ariel Sharon). A Jewish religious observance at the Western Wall, which forms a part of the Temple Mount, served as a catalyst for rioting by Arabs against Jews that spilled out of Jerusalem into other villages and towns, including Safed and Hebron.
Again, the British Administration made no effort to prevent the violence and, after it began, the British did nothing to protect the Jewish population. After six days of mayhem, the British finally brought troops in to quell the disturbance. By this time, virtually the entire Jewish population of Hebron had fled or been killed. In all, 133 Jews were killed and 399 wounded in the pogroms. "






The second problem with your post is the article that you have brought down that you have taken from the ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE is this faulty (its an out right lie)

There are many very good and objective palestinian sites out there. I haven't checked www.iap.org very closely, but its probably not worse than

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/King_David.html objective Palestinian sties?? rofl rofl Yeah please show me one.

In fact can you show any Palestinian site that is negative of them or has done any true introspective on themselves?? The answer is that there is none!! I guess they consider themselves angles here in everything that they have done :roll:


Anyways for the site I brought down yes it’s a Jewish site but most of their material is from outside credible sources be it Jewish and non Jewish.

Ok listen I am sure you will say the same for that Islamic site and I guess depending on ones bias here on this forum, it will determine which one that person feels is more accurate, however what I brought down has more relevance when it pertains to the title post of this thread and when they are talking about Jewish responses to irgun, for a credible Jewish site has more relevance in fact to talk about Jewish responses then a Arab one that wants to lie about Jewish responses.

The fact is that most Jews and Jewish organizations did not support irgun and that Islamic website tried to falsely paint a different picture and that is factually false.




But there seems to be a strong lack of clarity on this matter and how it everything was really carried out, and since none of us were there, we only have secondary or third party sources to believe. I am open to anything, you on the other hand are not.yeah you say your open to anything but you show complete lack of “openness” by seemingly discounting what I brought down.
I suggest to you, that just like you want me to have a open mind about what you bring down (which contrary to your charge, I do in fact have!!) I ask of you to show the same honest curtsey on what I brought down.

Now I am open to what you brought down but it is faculty false, for non withstanding their charges of what ben gurioun said for which there is no proof to that and lot of sites dispute the one that you brought down, what I do know for sure as a Jew that has extensively studied this conflict and especially what we Jews have said and done, I believe the facts are that most Jews DID NOT support irgun and for you to not believe that is in fact the only closed mindness here.

Oh and most importantly to you and to this thread here, is that what is factual and what I have conclusively proven is that your title and then your subsequent act to try prove your tite is wrong, for "original terrorism" did not start in 1946 as you wrongly asserted, but started by the Arabs way before that time.(as I have shown)




IDFM203 is back for sure :D

Your damn right my friend :D

[StarvingStudent47]

"First modern terrorist bombing"? In 1948?! What about all the terrorist bombings in 19th century Russia committed by anarchists and Communists? Nechaev and Bakunin and all their pals?

What about the IRA?

[OnTheRocks]

I did not discount what you said in any way, nor did I myself claim that most or many jews supported Irgun. I just wasnted to point out that "the dorr swings in both directions".

As for the title of the thread, OK, I have to admit, that I did not know about what was happening in 1929 so I guess I have a tad of reading to catch up on.

[IDFM203]

I did not discount what you said in any way, nor did I myself claim that most or many jews supported Irgun. well the article that YOU brought down implied that and that is factually false as I have shown!!


I just wasnted to point out that "the dorr swings in both directions". listen no Israeli is saying that we are perfect or that we defend every Jewish action.

The point is that most of the terrorism before 1946 and the original terrorism was committed by the Arabs against the Jews there, and it was done with the full support of most of Arabs and while yes there were a few acts committed by a few Jews, they were much later then Arab terrorism and they were NOT supported by most Jews.



As for the title of the thread, OK, I have to admit, that I did not know about what was happening in 1929 so I guess I have a tad of reading to catch up on. I appreciate you being able to admit this!!

For original terrorism did not start by that one example that you brought down in 1946

Oh and believe me there is a lot more acts of terrorism against the Jews before 1946 then just that one horrific pogrom in 1929.



Shalom :D

[Nizark]

check this out:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/11/1662194.php


Once again, jews can do no right and muslims can do no wrong. Wrong site one, Ummah.com is not here

[UoUo]

Bombing of german cities (which i don't give a damm about them...in the past) and killing thousands of people...is much more need to be Called as "terror" then the bombing in pre 48.

[PsihoKeke]

First modern use of terorism? Have you ever heard of Irish War of Independence (1919-1921)? IRA bombing campaign in London 1939? TIGR? Not to mention anarchists from varius countries and feinans in 19th century. I guess for some people Israelis are the only terorists in world.