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J-10
08-31-2005, 12:37 AM
Iraq war costs more per month than Vietnam
31 Aug 2005 03:59:29 GMT
Source: *******
By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON, Aug 31 (*******) - The U.S. war in Iraq now costs more per month than the average monthly cost of military operations in Vietnam in the 1960s and 1970s, according to a report issued on Wednesday.

The report, entitled "The Iraq Quagmire" from the Institute for Policy Studies and Foreign Policy in Focus, both liberal, anti-war organizations, put the cost of current operations in Iraq at $5.6 billion per month. This breaks down to almost $186 million a day.

"By comparison, the average cost of U.S. operations in Vietnam over the eight-year war was $5.1 billion per month, adjusting for inflation," it said.

As a proportion of gross domestic product, the Vietnam War was more significant, costing 12 percent of annual GDP, compared to 2 percent for the Iraq War. However, economists said the Iraq war is being financed with deficit spending and may nearly double the projected federal budget deficit over the next 10 years.

The U.S. Congress has approved four spending bills for Iraq so far with funds totaling $204.4 billion and is expected soon to authorize a further $45.3 billion.

"Broken down per person in the United States, the cost so far is $727, making the Iraq War the most expensive military effort in the past 60 years," wrote authors Phyllis Bennis and Erik Leaver.

As public support for the war drops, more politicians, including some Republicans, have begun to compare it to Vietnam.

The latest was Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam. He said earlier this month that the United States was "locked into a bogged-down problem, not dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam."

The total cost of the Vietnam War in current dollars was around $600 billion and there are some experts who believe the Iraq War will eventually surpass that total.

For instance, the Congressional Budget Office estimated this year that if the United States managed to reduce its troop deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan to 50,000 by 2010, the cost over the next decade would be an additional $393 billion, which when added to the dollars already spent would exceed the Vietnam total.

While there are far fewer troops in Iraq than there were in Vietnam at the height of that conflict, the weapons they use are more expensive and they are paid more.

The report also highlighted the human costs of the war: the deaths of an estimated 23,000-27,000 Iraqi civilians and more than 2,000 U.S. military personnel and civilian contractors; the social costs of domestic programs slashed to meet the budget shortfall; the loss of income to reservists and National Guard troops who spend long periods away from their careers and businesses as well as the anticipated costs of treating returning troops for mental health conditions as a result of their service.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30297215.htm

BarkingSquirrel
08-31-2005, 12:43 AM
A war fought with far more advanced weapons costs more?

Shock! Horror! Who woulda thunk it?

Abolith
08-31-2005, 12:55 AM
A war fought with far more advanced weapons costs more?

Shock! Horror! Who woulda thunk it?


woha hang on a second....

are you saying that when the equipment we use costs more than what we used 30 years ago, so the total, both in terms of geopolitical cost and cost to the average taxplayer in raw dollars is gonna cost more in the overall scheme of the conflict we are currently involved in???

szr
08-31-2005, 12:56 AM
My will is weakening! All this bad news makes me want to leave this capitalist hellhole and move to an advanced utopian peaceful society!



Off topic but curious: J-10, what happens when you google "Democracy" in China? Do you get a warning message? "Found no matches" page? 404 screen? Redirect to the some Communist Party FAQ? What's the 4-11?

J-10
08-31-2005, 12:59 AM
My will is weakening! All this bad news makes me want to leave this capitalist hellhole and move to an advanced utopian peaceful society!



Off topic but curious: J-10, what happens when you google "Democracy" in China? Do you get a warning message? "Found no matches" page? 404 screen? Redirect to the some Communist Party FAQ? What's the 4-11?

In English:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=Democracy&btnG=Search+News

In Chinese
http://www.google.com/search?hl=zh-CN&q=%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr=

szr
08-31-2005, 01:05 AM
Just as I suspected... 是主要由经济界大新闻网站, 全党徽以振!

BarkingSquirrel
08-31-2005, 01:18 AM
Nooo! Not "是主要由经济界大新闻网站, 全党徽以振" Damn commie jive talk!

usm2b
08-31-2005, 02:03 AM
No Sh*t Sherlock!!!! What bright dumass came up with this hypothesis? :cantbeli:

ogukuo72
08-31-2005, 02:42 AM
Nooo! Not "是主要由经济界大新闻网站, 全党徽以振" Damn commie jive talk!

Actually it says "Given the size of this website, I'm not paid enough." rofl

Son_Of_Suvorov
08-31-2005, 01:33 PM
A war fought with far more advanced weapons costs more?

Shock! Horror! Who woulda thunk it?

Isn't the point of (slightly more) advanced weapons to do more with less and thereby save money?

Argyll
08-31-2005, 01:35 PM
KBR are probably the biggest cost driven Force In Iraq ;)

saltandpepper
08-31-2005, 02:55 PM
very lame...
First they are projecting the US federal deficit of the next 10 years.
And over emphisizing budget deficit. US gov't has not bounce a interest payment on securities it sell and and no problem attracting foreign funds.

Just look at the 2% now vs the 12% in Vietnam. That sentence itself just prove that the Title of the article is invalid.

HarleyDoc
08-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Isn't the point of (slightly more) advanced weapons to do more with less and thereby save money?[/quote]


My guess is that the purpose of advanced weapons is to kill the enemy more efficiently, thereby reducing the amount of friendly casualties. It's not about saving money, but saving lives and increasing combat effectiveness of the forces of the nation employing advanced weapons.

joe mama
08-31-2005, 03:20 PM
so it's only 500 million more per month now then 30 years ago? I'd say that's a friggin bargain, considering how much more expensive the weapons are now...

ArmedPacifist
08-31-2005, 03:25 PM
so overall, we should ignore this article because our ideology tells us it's a lie.

JoaMei
08-31-2005, 03:33 PM
Well, there is one difference to Vietnam: Iraq costs much less lives so far.

Argyll
08-31-2005, 03:37 PM
so it's only 500 million more per month now then 30 years ago? I'd say that's a friggin bargain, considering how much more expensive the weapons are now...

They're not that much more expensive,most Hi tech weaponry is still dependant on older base munitions such as the M82-M84 dumb bombs.


I think it's wrong to make such comparisons anyway,it's more like the higher costs come from maintainence........and also look at the advanced technology.........super computers guiding UAV's from Stateside,the weapons are reasonably cheap,the delivery systems aren't

nognig
08-31-2005, 03:57 PM
What a load of crap. Another example of abuse of statistics. I'm sure they averaged 1956-1973 to get those numbers. Up until the mid-1960s, the US only had a few military advisors in Vietnam.

The US had over 400,000 troops in Vietnam each year from 1966 to 1969. You are going to tell me that cost less than the 150,000 troop in Iraq for the last 2.5 years?

NN

mi35d
08-31-2005, 04:15 PM
Whoa there fella! Stop trying to actually bring in rational thinking into a liberal argument! That would be wrong!

panzerjager
08-31-2005, 04:28 PM
KBR are probably the biggest cost driven Force In Iraq ;)

Yeah, corporations are evil and probably caused Hurricane Katrina (if it wasn't Karl Rove's evil Weather Machine). :lol:


Well, there is one difference to Vietnam: Iraq costs much less lives so far.

Well put. I'd rather spend the dollars then stack up the corpses.

ZaakM433
08-31-2005, 04:48 PM
not to mention in the beginning vietnam was very low intensity and gradually became more costly.

in iraq... it started out with "shock 'n awe"

BarkingSquirrel
08-31-2005, 04:56 PM
A war fought with far more advanced weapons costs more?

Shock! Horror! Who woulda thunk it?

Isn't the point of (slightly more) advanced weapons to do more with less and thereby save money?The point is to cost less on the human life side. Or are you trying to say a couple 500lb bombs costs more than a GBU? Doesn't matter. Either way you're wrong.

usm2b
08-31-2005, 05:21 PM
Don't forget that the sand/enviroment is causing more wear quicker on our equipment. e.g. helicopters or hummers being uparmoured which causes the parts to break down faster.

saltandpepper
08-31-2005, 06:22 PM
Back then gas were cheaper and BigMac cost less also.... :roll:

This article lack the understanding of economics and does not take into consideration of everything cost more than then the 70s. Even if you adjust for nominal interest, there's still real interest involve. Perhaps the only people making as much as they did in 70s are the soldiers fighting war. Our troops derserve a raise.

Kingtabed3
08-31-2005, 06:41 PM
Yeah that war over the course of how many years?

Aerosoul
08-31-2005, 06:44 PM
Yeah that war over the course of how many years?

read the article dude.

"per month" = average.
accurate averages can be made after two years now in Iraq.
it's up to you and everyone else to decide whether or not it's a reasonable comparison, given the operations conducted in the two wars.

ocean
09-01-2005, 01:48 AM
hang on ..

Given US dollar is still in process devaluing.. the actual cost in future will be reduced.

Midav
09-01-2005, 01:50 AM
so it's only 500 million more per month now then 30 years ago? I'd say that's a friggin bargain, considering how much more expensive the weapons are now...

They're not that much more expensive,most Hi tech weaponry is still dependant on older base munitions such as the M82-M84 dumb bombs.


I think it's wrong to make such comparisons anyway,it's more like the higher costs come from maintainence........and also look at the advanced technology.........super computers guiding UAV's from Stateside,the weapons are reasonably cheap,the delivery systems aren't

I agree.

Turhapuro
09-01-2005, 04:46 AM
Ofcourse it costs more.

But just think about how much richer USA is today than in 60's. Probably average taxpayer pays less of his income than in Vietnam days.

Turhapuro
09-01-2005, 04:47 AM
Back then gas were cheaper and BigMac cost less also.... :roll:

This article lack the understanding of economics and does not take into consideration of everything cost more than then the 70s. Even if you adjust for nominal interest, there's still real interest involve.
Costs were inflation adjusted.

Seiyuuki
09-01-2005, 04:58 AM
Well, it was cheaper to draft the E1 to do the laundry and serve food then hiring contractors to do it now. ;)