Why Europe Hasn't Jumped to Help Katrina's Victims

[JoaMei]

Why Europe Hasn't Jumped to Help Katrina's Victims

By Jody K. Biehl in Berlin

When a tsunami hit South Asia in December, the world mobilized to help and aid poured in. Now that parts of America are underwater, the US is handling the relief work virtually alone. What is going on?

Virtually overnight, fun-loving New Orleans transformed from America's playground into a waterlogged wasteland. Photos of houses and highways underwater and reports of dead bodies floating in swampy debris and frightened refugees huddling for cover have left us mute. Hurricane Katrina turned out to be at least as violent as expected and will likely turn out to be among the biggest hurricanes of all time.

Yet, in Europe, the Web sites of major aid organizations -- including international branches of the Red Cross in Germany, France, England etc. -- don't even mention its existence. Instead, they continue to highlight such worthy causes as hunger in Niger, ongoing aid for victims of December's South Asian tsunami and, in the French case, an airline crash in Venezuela. But the US Gulf Coast is nowhere to be found. It begs the question: Don't the desperate people of Lousiana and Mississippi need the world's help and attention?

Not necessarily, as it turns out. Unlike underdeveloped Third World nations, America has a well-honed and highly organized system of emergency aid distribution. So, when disaster hits, the nation -- and even individual states -- can readily help themselves. "If the American Red Cross asks us for help, we will be there directly," said Margitta Zimmermann, German Red Cross spokesperson. "But so far, there haven't been any calls for our services." And unless the German branch is directly involved in a rescue mission, they don't include disasters on their Web site, she said.

Kristina Decker, from Germany's Christian aid group Caritas, concurred, saying help from Germany might even cause more harm than good. "America has a strong army and are well equipped for disaster relief," she said. "It makes no sense for us to go in and try to help. What really would we do? They have enough personnel to handle the crisis alone. Our workers might just be in the way. Of course, if they asked us to come in, we would. But that is not the case so far."

When hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and other natural disasters hit developing nations, residents in remote regions are often taken unawares, as was the case of the December tsunami. By contrast, meteorologists warned Gulf Coast states well in advance of Katrina's approach and by the time she hit on Monday, 80 percent of New Orleans' approximately 480,000 residents had heeded their mayor's call to evacuate the city. Plus, emergency facilities were already in place and workers ready to assist. US President George Bush broke off his month-long vacation two days early because of Katrina and declared a state of emergency on the Gulf Coast even before the storm hit, thus clearing the way for immediate federal aid. "When a catastrophe occurs in a Third World country, the dimension is totally different," Decker said. "That sort of immediate help is just not spontaneously there."

Although European agencies won't be sending relief workers, they will accept donations and pass them on to American aid groups. But for the moment, none are planning a large fundraising drive to help American victims. But, then again, they never do. The only exception came with Sept. 11, when both the German Red Cross and Caritas were swamped with calls from Germans wanting to donate. "We had so many people calling and asking to donate that we couldn't do anything but open up a bank account," Zimmermann said. "But that was a real exception." At Caritas, Decker said the the phones rang non-stop after the World Trade Center attacks and the group passed on over €100,000 to the American aid group Catholic Charities. "Some of that money ended up sitting in a bank because the need for it was not immediately there," she said. "But certainly there was the desire to give."

In the wake of Katrina, at least so far, she said, the phone lines have been relatively quiet. By 11 a.m. Tuesday, for instance, Caritas had only received one donation. That may change, however. "The first impressions were that the damage was under control," Decker said. "But if the media reports continue in the way they did yesterday (Monday), then I think the response will be much greater."



http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372348,00.html



German Minister Stands Behind Criticism of Bush

German Environmental Minister Jürgen Trittin remains stolid in his assertion that Hurricane Katrina is linked to global warming and America's refusal to reduce emissions. He may be right, but the timing of his tirade is way off.

Germany's Minister of the Environment, Jürgen Trittin of the Green Party, on Tuesday unleashed a firestorm of criticism in the United States over comments he made in a newspaper column directly linking the natural catastrophe in the American South to global warming. After Hurricane Katrina bashed America's Gulf States and left New Orleans a sunken wasteland, Trittin wrote an editorial lashing out at US President George W. Bush for "closing his eyes" to the dangers of global warming. The polemic began with the line, "Recently in the theaters, now in real life," and went on to compare the scenes of Hurricane Katrina to Roland Emmerich's Hollywood blockbuster "The Day after Tomorrow."

He also said that if something is not done soon -- in other words if Bush maintains his current stance on global warming and continues to reject the Kyoto Protocol to reduce emissions -- America and Europe can expect even more storms like Katrina in the future. American readers reacted with a vengeance and their angry words filled our in-box Wednesday here at SPIEGEL ONLINE. Essentially, they were outraged that in the middle of a crisis, a German minister would turn to America and -- instead of reaching out a helping hand -- virtually point a finger and say, "You asked for this."

Yet, despite the uproar he has caused, Trittin remains unrepentant. On Wednesday, his spokesman Michael Schroeren even said that he "can't understand ... at all" why Americans are upset. Trittin's comments "are true and he wrote what he meant."

Carsten Voigt, who coordinates German-American relations for the German Foreign Ministry, attempted to smooth over any hard feelings on Wednesday, by stressing Germany's concern for America's Gulf Coast states and suggesting that Trittin's comments -- albeit accurate -- were badly timed and somewhat misplaced, given the scale of the catastrophe.

"I agree with what he said, but of course, the way it was said is another matter," said Voigt. "The main point though is that climate change is an issue that needs to be put on the table. ... I think that at this point, given the circumstances, one should be a bit more diplomatic than Mr. Trittin was, but there is general consensus in Germany that climate change is a major issue. It has nothing to do with who is in power (German Chancellor Gerhard) Schröder or Bush. It is not about Kyoto. The most important thing is that we do something."

He also said that though he does not see Bush or American policy as to blame for Katrina, he does believe that the hurricane "was stronger because of climate change." Global warming, he said, is a "long-term question" but it is "certainly true that when a land is so highly developed as the US, it has a responsibility to work against climate change. When the US has a better plan (than Kyoto or anything else currently being suggested), then please," we'd like to hear it, he said.

Voigt also took pains to stress Germany's willingness to help America and American victims in any way possible. Indeed, Interior Minister Otto Schily offered up as much aid as America needs. An upper-level government spokesperson told SPIEGEL ONLINE that, "the Foreign Ministry is in constant contact with its American partner agencies" and is following the aftermath of Katrina "with concern." The bottom line though is that America -- which has one of the most sophisticated rescue operations in the world -- almost certainly won't be asking for assistance.

"We only send things when our help helps," Voigt said. "Right now, this is not about money. It is about solidarity with our American partners. And we certainly feel that."


http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372405,00.html

[foxtrot023]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame

[mi35d]

Uh, actually the US DOES send aid in the exact situations you described.

I was attached to a C-5A unit. We and other Squadrons were used throughout the world to bring heavy equipment and constructions supplies whenever there was a natural disaster.

Quite often these missions are done with very little fanfare or media attention.

[foxtrot023]

Uh, actually the US DOES send aid in the exact situations you described.

I was attached to a C-5A unit. We and other Squadrons were used throughout the world to bring heavy equipment and constructions supplies whenever there was a natural disaster.

Quite often these missions are done with very little fanfare or media attention.

I am not saying that the US does not do this type of mission, I am saying that I have not seen developed nations asking or doing these missions to other developed nations.

Since you have flown/done this type of mission, can you tell me were most were done?

[ReconCominAtYa]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help

pwnd

[P90_lover]

I'd feel more comfortable having an american help me if I was in that kinda jam rather than some soldier from another country.
Mainly because I'd like my government let me down that the rest of the world had to come save my sorry ass. No offence all you non-americans ;)

[demotivater]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help

pwnd
How profound. :roll:

[moughoun]

for a couple of reason's, does the US need the help?......probably not, you have a well functioning disaster assistence system, we'd just get in the way, you have the capability on your own, most of the other places we help do not, if help was needed the US Gov would ask, and it would arrive, although I do think that several charities will be sending assistence, but not at a Gov level

[Laworkerbee]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame

Los Angeles fire Dept sent a lot of men and material to Japan after the Kobe quake I remember warehouse's ful of blankets and food go there too, and the Israelis have a lot of special dog teams they send out as well. But the article is pretty much spot on, 1st world nations don't need assistance of the scope required by 3rd world nations.

[achilles]

Europe MIGHT send help eventually guys...its still too early to tell. The hurricane is still out there, so it may take a couple of days till foreign aid arrives. Stay tuned, cause i really think that foreign countries will eventually help one way or another.
As the US did a number of times in the past. Laworkerkbee's example is spot on.

[Deuterium]

MUCH too early to start flame wars on this subject. Let's not forget Europe’s reaction to 911. I feel pretty comfortable that Europe, even France, will help us if called upon and most will volunteer before being asked. Natural disasters shouldn't be politicized from either end of the political spectrum. Nuff said.

[hedgehog]

just a comment... don"t listen to Juergen Trittin... the friggin green party member that is not held in high regard here. Just a &*% hypocrite
The german Red cross has offered help along with the THW as far as the news report go and that their help to this point has been turned down from the US side. Hopefully that will change though.

[P90_lover]

Let's not forget Europe’s reaction to 911. I feel pretty comfortable that Europe, even France, will help us if called upon and most will volunteer before being asked. Natural disasters shouldn't be politicized from either end of the political spectrum. Nuff said. Very well said. ;)

[Luno]

P90_lover are you the samme person as SFWanabe? :|

[P90_lover]

Yes I am.

[P90_lover]

*Edit*

[BloodyTalon]

Meh.

We can take care of ourselves.

[foxtrot023]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame

Los Angeles fire Dept sent a lot of men and material to Japan after the Kobe quake I remember warehouse's ful of blankets and food go there too, and the Israelis have a lot of special dog teams they send out as well. But the article is pretty much spot on, 1st world nations don't need assistance of the scope required by 3rd world nations.

I am not saying that help is not sent, I am merely offering ideas as to why it may or not be sent

[Laworkerbee]

Yes I am.

Expect to lose an account or both that is a violation of forum rules

[Laworkerbee]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame

Los Angeles fire Dept sent a lot of men and material to Japan after the Kobe quake I remember warehouse's ful of blankets and food go there too, and the Israelis have a lot of special dog teams they send out as well. But the article is pretty much spot on, 1st world nations don't need assistance of the scope required by 3rd world nations.

I am not saying that help is not sent, I am merely offering ideas as to why it may or not be sent

I gotcha brother I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or anything

[P90_lover]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/122319053042d577cb5a6f3.gifReminds me of me yesterday rofl

[toad]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame


truly one of the more ignorant posts in the recent hurricane disaster genre.

the other posters pointed out multiple examples of aid sent round the world to developed nations. While in the navy we assisted during a volcano eruption

and its not just the official government assistance, but in private donations during disasters abroad, even in developed nations.

To say that developed nations do not assist other developed nations is ignorant and deserves nothing but jeers.

[foxtrot023]

probably for the same reason the US doesn´t send help in case of the floods in central europe, or no one sends help to Japan when they get hit by a quake. Developed nations can cope with those disasters, have the means, and probably don´t want other people underfoot, heck for all we know, help is not even requested.

Not trying to inflame


truly one of the more ignorant posts in the recent hurricane disaster genre.

the other posters pointed out multiple examples of aid sent round the world to developed nations. While in the navy we assisted during a volcano eruption

and its not just the official government assistance, but in private donations during disasters abroad, even in developed nations.

To say that developed nations do not assist other developed nations is ignorant and deserves nothing but jeers.

....and in Italy the US armed forces helped during volcanoes eruptions.
While I certainly did not claim to know about the topic, there is no need to rub it in. I was merely trying to think why help has not sent, perhaps no help has been asked for, I do not know. Perhaps someone can see if help has been offered, or asked

[NicNZ]

This is a non-issue. The US receives aid from other coutnries routinely, it just isnt publicised. As I am pointing out in all of these threads, foreign fire-fighting teams travel to the US each year to help fight the annual, rampant forest fires. Theres nothing unusual about the US needing, requesting, and receiving assistance. But no country is going to send unsolicited aid to another country unannounced and unsolicited. :roll:

[Laworkerbee]

Dang that was kinda harsh Toad :petting:

[Rifleman]

This is a non-issue. The US receives aid from other coutnries routinely, it just isnt publicised. As I am pointing out in all of these threads, foreign fire-fighting teams travel to the US each year to help fight the annual, rampant forest fires. Theres nothing unusual about the US needing, requesting, and receiving assistance. But no country is going to send unsolicited aid to another country unannounced and unsolicited. :roll:

Teams will travel to the U.S, and from the U.S. to other nations, as more or less a training mission. I am sure there are other cities in the world that could face the same dilema that N.O. is facing now, it would behove them to send teams to gain experience. The media and politicians can them yak about the good will and harmony among nations, but any real foreign aid would just be a "feel good" effort.

[cut]

MUCH too early to start flame wars on this subject. Let's not forget Europe’s reaction to 911. I feel pretty comfortable that Europe, even France, will help us if called upon and most will volunteer before being asked. Natural disasters shouldn't be politicized from either end of the political spectrum. Nuff said.

as much as I greatly respect you Deut, that post is a tad hypocrytical.

[andy stevens]

If India turns down aid and help after the tsunami, I'm sure the US can cope.

Sad loss of life though, years ago we had a similar thing happen albeit on a much smaller scale. Canvey Island was flooded during a strom in '53:

http://www.thisisessex.co.uk/essex/canveyfloods/canveyfloods.html

307 people died,mainly trapped in their attics trying to get above the water. Holland lost 1800 people too. With our smaller population, it's a pretty similar percentage.

I am sure if and when the US gets to the stage of needing help, in any format, there will be a queue of nations ready to help.

[Mark Sman]

Alot of foreign help won't even make the back pages of the paper, because it will come from NGO agencies.

Specialized teams, like the previously mentioned wreckage searchers, may get some mention.

But truly the sorting out has just started. Its premature to say what type or level of response is needed.

Though early bets are on "all" and "alot".

Self supporting mobile teams capable of carrying out medical or civil engineering duties are a specialized thing. They also can't just show up and pitch tent. Efforts and communication have to be integrated.

And as yet the on scene authorities couldn't integrate a badmiton game if you supplied the net and the rackets. Give them a couple of days and the total chaos will subside.

I was less than impressed with FEMA's response in the 2004 hurricane season. I hope they've improved.

[sp2c]

well it's getting underway I guess



The Netherlands offers New Orleans 'dikeinspectionteam'

publiced: 1 september 2005 12:28

THE HAGUE - The Netherlands has offered the American authorities a 'dikeinspectionteam' from Rijkswaterstaat to help fighting the excess water in the region around New Orleans.
According to the ministry of transportation and waterstate the team is ready to travel to the US.

The inspectors of Rijkswaterstaat have experience with dike breakthroughs and large excesses of water, gained among others in Stein in Zuid-Limburg.
It is not yet clear weather or not the Americans are going to make use of the offer.

International help

France and Germany have offered the United States help as well on thursday. In the flooded city New Orleans a few French citizens are trapped as well. They are believed to have survived the disaster.


now all the Americans need to do is accept the offer

[budgie]

C'mon the US can afford to take care of its own disaster relief whereas places like Niger and Sri Lanka cannot. I doubt all the good ol' boys in hurricane hit southern states even want help from the much-maligned 'Eurowussies'. Let those than can pay put their money into more needy areas.

[Atlantic Friend]

I listened briefly the CNN reports, but unless I'm mistaken they said Chirac pledged support in show of sympathy and solidarity with an American state that had close historical ties to France. No other details, I was in a hurry.

[stephane from Paris]

France (certainly follow by other countries) offered humanitarian or/and military assistance to USA since yesterday but still no feedback from US gov.

[oldsoak]

I'm of the opinion that we'd get in the way. Heres why -
One - New Orleans in on the turf of the worlds number one super power - what can we do for them the US cant ? The US can get stuff interstate quicker than we can ship it or fly it from Europe.
Two - us turning up mob-handed might creat organisational problems - we've still got to move around and share roads etc with local agencies etc and that could well create bottleknecks. Who calls the shots ? We cant just take over situations the way we do in third world areas.
Three - quite a few countries have their assets already tied up either supporting the WOT or doing UN stuff. Our aid agencies are collectively large, but individually small. Until we have a EU wide agency, we cant add much more to whatthe US is already doing.

[dangerdan87]

There have already been European countries offering to help us against the devestastion caused by Katrina.
BUT...the US hasn't "asked" them to help so they arent actually helping us yet...

It might be hard to understand, but its true.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Why arnt Americans helping out there fellow country men?

[AROUETLJ]

Why doesn't the US send firefighters to Portugal?

And wouldn't French troops on US soil create a bit of, er, friction?

[Sharp]

And wouldn't French troops on US soil create a bit of, er, friction?

Why would they create it, after all, they are on their lands... :lol: :)

[ranger75bn]

from http://www.protezionecivile.it/ http://www.protezionecivile.it/images/common/PClogo.gif

Katrina Hurricane: ready the Italian aids the Undersecretary to the Prime Minister's Office, Dr. Gianni Letta , in the course of a telephone talk with the Ambassador of the United states, in expressing newly the doleances for the natural catastrophe that has hit the populations of the Lousiana, Mississipi and Alabama, has offered the immediate availability of the Italian Civil Protection to send aids in the zones devastate from the passage of the Katrina hurricane. Dr. Letta has confirmed to the Ambassador that the Chief of the Department of the Civil Protection is ready to send, through the Interforces Operations command, two aircrafts ( Hercules C 130 ) of the Aviazione Militare , to transport in the United States waterpump, generator of electric power, amphibious means, tent and technicians. For such reason in attended of the eventual acceptance from part American of the offer of Italian aids, the Chief of the Department of the Civil Protection Dr. Guido Bertolaso has already contacted the colleague director of the FEMA Michael D. Brown in order to define the possible technical aspects of the operation. The offer of experts and materials represents the concrete solidarity that Italy offers to all the citizens of the United States therefore heavy hit from the tragedy caused from the passage of the Katrina hurricane.

sorry for english.... :oops:

[Mark Sman]

Why arnt Americans helping out there fellow country men?

They are. And the first time you go through a disaster of this scale you will understand that it takes time. There are many logistic bottleknecks to be overcome. Impassable roads, destroyed comm, biohazards, civil unrest, etc. And it stretches over hundreds of miles.

Although the water management team from the Netherlands is exactly the sort of specialized team that could be useful early on.

With New Orleans being a port town, some of the most useful foreign help would be hopital ships with there own medical evacuation helicopters and communication liasons with the New Orleans emergency services.

[toki]

Europe MIGHT send help eventually guys...its still too early to tell. The hurricane is still out there, so it may take a couple of days till foreign aid arrives. Stay tuned, cause i really think that foreign countries will eventually help one way or another.
As the US did a number of times in the past. Laworkerkbee's example is spot on.

I think most european countries already offered help...
i know it from france, germany, belgium and i think it's most of europe...

[Siddar]

Ok I love Euro bashing as much as every other Neo Con but in this case its way off the mark.

US can deal with this problem faster by itself then trying to incorprate dozen of other countrys in its releaf plans.

[Thor]

It's no good idea to just start sending units or supplies without planning. Let the american authorities sort it out and request what kind of help they need. They will get it.

[Atlantic Friend]

OK, just to make it official and end the spin about this topic, Washington announced yesterday that it would accept the offers of international help. These offers had already been made by :

- Canada
- Russia
- France
- Japan
- Venezuela
- Honduras
- Germany
- the Organization of American States
- the United Kingdom
- Jamaica
- NATO
- Australia
- the Netherlands
- Greece
- Hungaria
- China
- Colombia
- the Dominican Republic
- Israel
- South Korea
- the United Arab Emirates

French PM de Villepin, jerk as he may be, announced that doctors and firemen would be flown to Louisiana and that other rescue effort would be organized from the French Antilles, in the Carribean.

[Thor]

And Sweden too.. p-)

[Atlantic Friend]

And Sweden too.. p-)


Oops, sorry, Sweden. I just took the names that had been quoted by the WH spokesperson yesterday and quoted again by the LCI website. There must be other nations too that offered help, CNN had Bill CLinton and George Herbert Bush talking about Sri Lanka, for example.

[Shadow]

The thing that keeps people from donating money is that the US could probably rebuild everything 3x with the money they wasted for wars...

[supercontra]

Usually aid is only sent if the country needing it asks for it, since barging in is akin to foreign invasion. No request for aid has come (until this morning) so no aid has been sent.

[Jobu]

The thing that keeps people from donating money is that the US could probably rebuild everything 3x with the money they wasted for wars...

You mean World War II?

Yea that was a waste of money liberating your asses. Plus Lend-Lease and and then the Marshall Plan too. What a waste of money they were.

[Atlantic Friend]

The thing that keeps people from donating money is that the US could probably rebuild everything 3x with the money they wasted for wars...

You mean World War II?

Yea that was a waste of money liberating your asses. Plus Lend-Lease and and then the Marshall Plan too. What a waste of money they were.

Definitely NOT the right time and place to start a flame war...don't you think ?

[Dinivan]

You mean World War II?

Yea that was a waste of money liberating your asses. Plus Lend-Lease and and then the Marshall Plan too. What a waste of money they were.

Yeah... everybody wastes money, for example, we wasted money when creating your country. That was a joke, of course, to show you this WWII things are simply crap, you did something for us, and we did something for you.

[stephane from Paris]

The thing that keeps people from donating money is that the US could probably rebuild everything 3x with the money they wasted for wars...

You mean World War II?

Yea that was a waste of money liberating your asses. Plus Lend-Lease and and then the Marshall Plan too. What a waste of money they were.

It was YOUR economical interrest! If westerns countries felt to soviets (in France for example 35 to 40% people voted for commies after WW2), your country never had the rise it has after the WW2 .

[Sharp]

You mean World War II?

Yea that was a waste of money liberating your asses. Plus Lend-Lease and and then the Marshall Plan too. What a waste of money they were.

Yeah... everybody wastes money, for example, we wasted money when creating your country. That was a joke, of course, to show you this WWII things are simply crap, you did something for us, and we did something for you.

rofl Napoleon should be crazy at this time of his life when he have sell the Nort American territory to some british, what is now the great "United States Of AAAAAAmerikaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" LOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

no i'm sorry i couldn't resist...

Finally, i think they have never accepted the fact that without us they wouldn't be there... they don't like it, then they remember us what happen during the WW2 (they like remember us their wars, because other than the wars, they have no history).

Btw, this guys have no history, they can speak but they can't understand.

edit: i'm sorry, i have say "other than the wars", well, in fact i will add "other than the wars AND the slavery of the blacks", sorry for the mistake.

[Avalanche]

What the hell did you just say?

Oh yeah... maybe you should read up on your history... the US made the Louisiana Purchase, the revolution was long over by that time.



eah... everybody wastes money, for example, we wasted money when creating your country.
You didn't create our country... ever hear of the revolution? It wasn't like Canada or Australia with the US.

[Dinivan]

Finally, i think they have never accepted the fact that without us they wouldn't be there... they don't like it, then they remember us what happen during the WW2 (they like remember us their wars, because other than the wars, they have no history).

Btw, this guys have no history, they can speak but they can't understand.

edit: i'm sorry, i have say "other than the wars", well, in fact i will add "other than the wars AND the slavery of the blacks", sorry for the mistake.

Same story. Without you, we would be under a communist regime (you came when it was already decided who would loose), but we would be here. Don't you understand that without us, you simply wouldn't exist?
And about history... if you are iliterate it's not our problem. Try learning something about the greeks, the romans, carlemagne, the spanish, british and french empires etc... we dominated the world when you can't even dominate a small poor country. We know of our history and we are proud of it, and maybe I should remember you that slavery was also allowed in your country.

[szr]

Finally, i think they have never accepted the fact that without us they wouldn't be there... they don't like it, then they remember us what happen during the WW2 (they like remember us their wars, because other than the wars, they have no history).

Btw, this guys have no history, they can speak but they can't understand.

edit: i'm sorry, i have say "other than the wars", well, in fact i will add "other than the wars AND the slavery of the blacks", sorry for the mistake.

Same story. Without you, we would be under a communist regime (you came when it was already decided who would loose), but we would be here. Don't you understand that without us, you simply wouldn't exist?
And about history... if you are iliterate it's not our problem. Try learning something about the greeks, the romans, carlemagne, the spanish, british and french empires etc... we dominated the world when you can't even dominate a small poor country. We know of our history and we are proud of it, and maybe I should remember you that slavery was also allowed in your country. :lol: I think we've found the next 'Prometheus'. Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll find plenty of Alpo to chew on.

[Avalanche]

Dinivan, maybe you should learn a little history. The arabs had the most complex civilizations in the world while dirty white men in Europe were picking fleas of each others backs.

BTW, I think it should be a requirement that people post the country they are in in their profile, otherwise it makes it hard to tell what side people who can't write coherent sentences (Sharp...) are on. Dinivan, I think that Sharp might actually be a European, so your arguing against your own side here...

Also Dinivan, why don't you share what country you're from, and who all of the "you"'s and "we"'s in your post where.

[Laworkerbee]

Dinivan, maybe you should learn a little history. The arabs had the most complex civilizations in the world while dirty white men in Europe were picking fleas of each others backs.

BTW, I think it should be a requirement that people post the country they are in in their profile, otherwise it makes it hard to tell what side people who can't write coherent sentences (Sharp...) are on. Dinivan, I think that Sharp might actually be a European, so your arguing against your own side here...

Also Dinivan, why don't you share what country you're from, and who all of the "you"'s and "we"'s in your post where.

Good call I hate trying to figure out where people are from

[Dinivan]

Dinivan, maybe you should learn a little history. The arabs had the most complex civilizations in the world while dirty white men in Europe were picking fleas of each others backs.

BTW, I think it should be a requirement that people post the country they are in in their profile, otherwise it makes it hard to tell what side people who can't write coherent sentences (Sharp...) are on. Dinivan, I think that Sharp might actually be a European, so your arguing against your own side here...

Also Dinivan, why don't you share what country you're from, and who all of the "you"'s and "we"'s in your post where.

Europe had a dark period during which our culture was only used to venerate Christianity, but we were great before that period, and we are great after that period.
I thought it was clear where I was from: European Union (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ee.html) Although the Constitution which was giving european citizenship has not been passed (for now), I consider myself, along with many other people, to be european (just like taiwanese consider themselves taiwanese and not chinese for example), and when I talk of "we" I refer to europeans and "you" as americans. Is it clear?

[joka]

Can't find this in English anywhere but.
http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/tuoreet/artikkeli/1101980820370
It's about if the EU should "release" their oil-reserves to help out the shortage that may occur in the USA.


"We are in contact with them (USA), and whatever they may ask for, we will give to them, may it be oil from various countries or anything else"


This thread is ludicrous, and so is the childish bickering amongst some of you here.

[Avalanche]

The EU is not a country, please tell me which country you are from. Do you have to? No, but I would appreciate it. Also, I believe that Sharp, the one you were arguing with and calling "you" after quoting his writing, is European, not American (this also carries over to your comments about his literacy... nice).

[cut]

The EU is not a country, please tell me which country you are from. Do you have to? No, but I would appreciate it. Also, I believe that Sharp, the one you were arguing with and calling "you" after quoting his writing, is European, not American (this also carries over to your comments about his literacy... nice).

I have an EU passport and I vote in EU elections, in many parts of the world that is more that enough to qualify as being a country.

[Dinivan]

Ouch! thought he was american but now I understand what he said... sorry Sharp


The EU is not a country, please tell me which country you are from. Do you have to? No, but I would appreciate it

Really?
country • noun (pl. countries) 1 a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory
nation • noun a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.

I do consider the EU to be a country :)

[Avalanche]

That's strange, because the EU itself doesn't consider it to be a country. Let me take the frist sentence of the description of the EU on its official web site:


The European Union (EU) is a family of democratic European countries, committed to working together for peace and prosperity.

The EU is a family comprised of seperate European Countries, according to the EU itself.

So, I ask you again, would you mind sharing with me what country (not self-proclamed "family" of nations) you are from?

[Para]

From what I can make out is that all offers of aid have been refused by the States. The UN relief agencies have offered to help in setting up camps and running them. They claim rightly that they do this on a regular basis all over the world, but not in America as their help has been turned down. America seems to feel that it is there problem and they will deal with it on their own. Which is fine for their pride but does not help the people in the short term

[Mark Sman]

No offers of aid have been refused.

http://p217.news.mud.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903/pl_afp/usweatheraidworld_050903000954

Don't know where you got the idea they had been.

As to what you think American people feel, well those are your thoughts.

[achilles]

This shows that launching this thread was not the smartest move evah...

More than 44 foreign governments and international organisations have offered help. Cuba and Venezuela put aside their differences with the Bush administration to offer assistance.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210646.stm

[Para]

I have not seen one word of acceptance of aid as to yet from the American Government. What they have requested is refined petrol in exchange for crude oil as they can't process it quick enough.

[Dinivan]

The EU is a family comprised of seperate European Countries, according to the EU itself.

You can call them countries or states. The fact is that we have common institutions such as the european comission (government) , european court of justice, european parliament, european central bank... how many countries in the world have the majority of their laws coming from regional institutions?


So, I ask you again, would you mind sharing with me what country (not self-proclamed "family" of nations) you are from?

You seem to be very interested. I'm from the state of Spain, love the british music, reading (specially american authors), opera... enough?


And about the european help...



Oil aid helps US market and lowers prices
Overseas help has eased the pressure on the American oil market, with US light crude falling to 67.57 dollars a barrel. The return to service of several production facilities has also lowered the price of oil.

"It did drop largely because there was, first, signs that the fuel pipeline actually is looking a little bit better than previously had been feared," said Beth Ann Bovino, Senior Economist at Standard and Poor's.

"The other thing was that the US and other countries were now going to bring in two million barrels of crude and also gasoline reserves into the US economy."

Yet eight refineries remain shut and several others are crippled in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Some 95 percent of oil production in the Gulf of Mexico is still out of commission. The US market has lost daily petrol production of about one million barrels, according to government estimates. Amid concerns over supply at the pumps, President Bush has urged motorists to hold back on their consumption in the weeks ahead.

The message is....fill up your tank, only when you need to
Euronews (http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=307187&lng=1)

[Mark Sman]

I have not seen one word of acceptance of aid

Then it is too bad that you didn't read the link I posted above.

Which was also previously posted. And is international news. Where are you looking for this "word of acceptance"?




Officials are looking at which offers can be accepted immediately and those that might be taken up later, she said.

"But we are matching those offers now to the needs on the ground," Rice said.

http://p217.news.mud.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903/pl_afp/usweatheraidworld_050903000954

[Thor]

Dinivan, maybe you should learn a little history. The arabs had the most complex civilizations in the world while dirty white men in Europe were picking fleas of each others backs.

BTW, I think it should be a requirement that people post the country they are in in their profile, otherwise it makes it hard to tell what side people who can't write coherent sentences (Sharp...) are on. Dinivan, I think that Sharp might actually be a European, so your arguing against your own side here...

Also Dinivan, why don't you share what country you're from, and who all of the "you"'s and "we"'s in your post where.
Arab civilization is a big hyped myth.

They could not live without it.

[sp2c]

Dinivan, maybe you should learn a little history. The arabs had the most complex civilizations in the world while dirty white men in Europe were picking fleas of each others backs.

BTW, I think it should be a requirement that people post the country they are in in their profile, otherwise it makes it hard to tell what side people who can't write coherent sentences (Sharp...) are on. Dinivan, I think that Sharp might actually be a European, so your arguing against your own side here...

Also Dinivan, why don't you share what country you're from, and who all of the "you"'s and "we"'s in your post where.

you can see 'what side people are on' just by knowing where they live???

my god that sounds stupid :cantbeli:

[Para]

Britain has just dispatched 500,000 ready to eat meals as requested.

[Avalanche]

sp2c, if you were following the conversation, then yes that would have helped immensely. If it is a "fight" or agruement over two countries, and one person comes in criticizing "them," you don't know which side he is arguing for.

[RS_Leo1A5]

Britain has just dispatched 500,000 ready to eat meals as requested.
So far German Luftwaffe cargo planes have transported 25 tons of food (MREs) to the USA.
Situation assessment teams of several relief organizations stand ready for action should their help be requested by the US.

[Para]

America has just swallowed its pride and asked for aid from Europe, official. Sunday 4th September

[hedgehog]

Asking for help when it is truly required has in my mind nothing to do with pride.

[Para]

When the trouble first happened it was stated it was an American problem and they would deal with it.

[sp2c]

sp2c, if you were following the conversation, then yes that would have helped immensely. If it is a "fight" or agruement over two countries, and one person comes in criticizing "them," you don't know which side he is arguing for.
knowing where he's from doesnt change that

[NicNZ]

You know, it just occurred to me that the US is going to need help removing and identifying corpses more than anything else. Grizzly but necessary work, and in an area where the US probably isnt able to self-supply. Wait and see how many post-mortem teams arrive in New Orleans :|

[XS203598]

When the trouble first happened it was stated it was an American problem and they would deal with it.

Source please.

[Avalanche]

sp2c, yes it does, it identifies who the "us" is, etc. in the post, really not that complicated. If I just said "My country thinks your country is terrible," no one would get anything out of that unless they knew which countries are "mine" and "yours." Anways, while you ponder this oh-so-complicated subject, I'm going to get back to the topic...

Just because the US didn't ask for help immediately doesn't mean it was out of pride. No one new the exact extent of the damage, etc that was done, so it took time to get a good estimate of the situation and make the appropriate calls as to what aid would be needed.

[Dinivan]

More info about the european help:


PARIS (*******) - Europe will dip into its emergency stocks of gasoline to help the United States through an energy crisis triggered by Hurricane Katrina smashing into Gulf Coast refiners, EU governments said on Friday.

France, Germany, Spain and Italy declared they were ready to send fuel across the Atlantic in an operation coordinated by the West's energy watchdog, the International Energy Agency (IEA).

The Paris-based IEA announced its members would release two million barrels per day (bpd) of oil over an initial period of 30 days.

About half that will be gasoline from European refiners that will roughly match output lost from the Gulf Coast's battered refineries. The remainder will be crude from U.S. reserves.

EU nations have watched in horror as the world's richest country struggles with the aftermath of Katrina. Thousands are feared dead and troops in the flooded city of New Orleans have been told to shoot-to-kill to crack down on looting.

Gasoline prices have soared by nearly a fifth over the past week and President George W. Bush has urged Americans to go easy on fuel. Unlike the IEA, the United States has only emergency reserves of crude and a small stockpile of heating oil.

"It's self-evident that we support the American bid," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a news conference in Berlin.

France echoed Schroeder's remarks: "This request is consistent with efforts for solidarity with the American people," the Industry Ministry said in a statement.

But Europe's pledge of gasoline may carry a political price for Washington. Differences over trade and foreign policy have strained relations between the United States and some EU member states including Germany and France.

Speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Wales, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said: "Whatever the United States asks for they will be given."

IEA TO MAKE FORMAL REQUEST FOR OIL

A Spanish official told ******* the IEA had contacted Madrid on Thursday and indicated there would be a formal request for oil on Friday. Spain wanted a "balanced proposal" involving all IEA members - 26 industrialized nations including Japan.

"We are waiting (for the IEA request) and I think we will tell them 'yes'," a spokesman at Spain's Industry Ministry said.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told a news conference it was up to each country to respond to the best of its ability. But he did not say whether Britain would release any oil.

Crude oil prices have hit levels unseen in real terms since 1980 - the year of the Iran-Iraq war and a year after the Iranian revolution that choked off supply lines.

Prices fell sharply on Friday on news that Europe was riding to the aid of the United States. Gasoline also eased.

But European oil will take at least 10 days to reach U.S. shores and tanker space is in short supply with many commercial ships already under charter and crossing the Atlantic.

The Paris-based IEA declined to confirm it would release oil to the United States. "We're still consulting with all our members and the damage assessment is still going on," an IEA spokeswoman said on Friday.

EU members Germany, France, Spain and Italy have substantial emergency reserves. France expected to provide about 92,000 barrels per day and Spain said it would release 70,000 bpd.

The IEA last dipped into its emergency reserves in 1991 when a U.S.-led coalition ejected Iraqi troops from Kuwait. The agency, created after the 1973-74 oil crisis to protect consumers, must hold stocks of 90 days of net imports.

(Additional reporting by Juan Navarro and Emma Ross-Thomas in Madrid, Dave Graham in Berlin, Rachel Sanderson in Rome, Emmanuel Jarry and Swaha Pattanaik in Paris, Chris Baltimore in Washington and Pieter Nielsen in Brussels)

[hedgehog]

Heard on BBC that the UK and Germany have already flown over 500 000 MRE rations over the weekend to the states. Anyone got any pics of this action?

[Belrick]

If a collection went around i'd donate but honestly i dont see that happening like it does when 3rd world countries suffer disasters.
Sad but true that the world percieves the US as being able to take care of itself.

Question is would the US ask for such aid or would pride prevent that?

[kenshiroIT]

OK, just to make it official and end the spin about this topic, Washington announced yesterday that it would accept the offers of international help. These offers had already been made by :

- Canada
- Russia
- France
- Japan
- Venezuela
- Honduras
- Germany
- the Organization of American States
- the United Kingdom
- Jamaica
- NATO
- Australia
- the Netherlands
- Greece
- Hungaria
- China
- Colombia
- the Dominican Republic
- Israel
- South Korea
- the United Arab Emirates

French PM de Villepin, jerk as he may be, announced that doctors and firemen would be flown to Louisiana and that other rescue effort would be organized from the French Antilles, in the Carribean.

Come on u forgot Italy and lot of other nations, man be serious if u do a list do it well or dont.

[kenshiroIT]

from http://www.protezionecivile.it/ http://www.protezionecivile.it/images/common/PClogo.gif

Katrina Hurricane: ready the Italian aids the Undersecretary to the Prime Minister's Office, Dr. Gianni Letta , in the course of a telephone talk with the Ambassador of the United states, in expressing newly the doleances for the natural catastrophe that has hit the populations of the Lousiana, Mississipi and Alabama, has offered the immediate availability of the Italian Civil Protection to send aids in the zones devastate from the passage of the Katrina hurricane. Dr. Letta has confirmed to the Ambassador that the Chief of the Department of the Civil Protection is ready to send, through the Interforces Operations command, two aircrafts ( Hercules C 130 ) of the Aviazione Militare , to transport in the United States waterpump, generator of electric power, amphibious means, tent and technicians. For such reason in attended of the eventual acceptance from part American of the offer of Italian aids, the Chief of the Department of the Civil Protection Dr. Guido Bertolaso has already contacted the colleague director of the FEMA Michael D. Brown in order to define the possible technical aspects of the operation. The offer of experts and materials represents the concrete solidarity that Italy offers to all the citizens of the United States therefore heavy hit from the tragedy caused from the passage of the Katrina hurricane.

sorry for english.... :oops:

see, Europe are helping, after all this topic is just a fraud!

[Atlantic Friend]

OK, just to make it official and end the spin about this topic, Washington announced yesterday that it would accept the offers of international help. These offers had already been made by :

- Canada
- Russia
- France
- Japan
- Venezuela
- Honduras
- Germany
- the Organization of American States
- the United Kingdom
- Jamaica
- NATO
- Australia
- the Netherlands
- Greece
- Hungaria
- China
- Colombia
- the Dominican Republic
- Israel
- South Korea
- the United Arab Emirates

French PM de Villepin, jerk as he may be, announced that doctors and firemen would be flown to Louisiana and that other rescue effort would be organized from the French Antilles, in the Carribean.

Come on u forgot Italy and lot of other nations, man be serious if u do a list do it well or dont.

Hey, I just quoted the countries the WH listed that day, man ! They probably talked about Italy in the following hours after this first statement. If I was to make the same list today I could add Bosnia, Mexico, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and many many more nations.

[Ryo Saeba]

Seriously, The france are afraid by the destructions caused by the Huricanne Katrina, I think it's a tragedy, for every country who had to suffer it.
This said, I'm surprised by the number of the victims and the desorganisation of the first days in a devloped country like US.

My Heart goes with victims and the famillys, the rescues teams and peoples who risk their lives too save others.

@+
Ryo

[Durandal]

How about this...

Who cares. You bitches like to argue about the most pointless $hit.

[kenshiroIT]

Europe are helping....so were is the frigging point?

[achilles]

Greece prepares help for hurricane-hit USA

A week after Hurricane Katrina devastated the state of Louisiana and other parts of the southern USA, Greece yesterday said it would send aid to the region on top of the assistance that is to be provided by the EU, including two cruise ships to house homeless people.

The Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it was expressing the “solidarity of the Greek people for the American people who have been suffering the catastrophic results of Hurricane Katrina.” The ministry said that Greece would be sending emergency aid to the region but no details were given.

Members of the country’s emergency rescue team (EMAK) will also be sent to the US to help to free New Orleans residents trapped by floodwaters and help evacuate them from the city. Greece will also be sending two cruise liners to the area to provide shelter over the next few months for people who lost their homes in the floods, the ministry added. Government spokesman Theodoros Roussopoulos said that Washington had accepted the offer of assistance without giving any details about the ships that will be involved.

Meanwhile, Foreign Ministry spokesman Giorgos Koumoutsakos said that there was no indication that any of the 5,000 Greek-Americans living in Louisiana had been killed by the hurricane or the floods.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100010_06/09/2005_60445

[szr]

America has just swallowed its pride and asked for aid from Europe, official. Sunday 4th SeptemberI heard the Statue of Liberty was kaput.

[noFlooder]

Hu, I hope Europe isnt gonna spend a **** to the usa atm.


Why?

Cause they refuse to accept ReadyToEat Meals from Europe and already sent some 15tons back to Germany. The official statement is because of "fear of BSE", but even the military folks at Pensecola airport say that they u.s. is rather afraid of pics of relief shipments from europe.

I hope they're gonna abolish restrictions soon.

[Clarsachier]

They are.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169027,00.html

But they're getting frustrated with the U.S.'s federal bureaucratic bungling ;

"Since Hurricane Katrina struck the United States, many international donors have complained of frustration that bureaucratic entanglements have hindered shipments to the United States."

[Freibier]

:|

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

How about this...

Who cares. You bitches like to argue about the most pointless $hit.

x100000000000000

[Pirate_K]

Let's not forget Europe’s reaction to 911. I feel pretty comfortable that Europe, even France, will help us if called upon and most will volunteer before being asked. Natural disasters shouldn't be politicized from either end of the political spectrum. Nuff said. Very well said. ;)


Very well put .!!! Thank you !!!