Armed Looters Raping, Shooting Refugees in New Orleans

[SuperShot5000]

I was just watching CNN when one of their medical correspondants was doing a report when their amphibious vehicle that was ferrying patients to other hospitals came under heavy sniper fire. Gangs of armed looters with M-4's, AK47's, RPK's and pistols have taken over many New Orleans streets in order to loot them dry.

There have been other reports suggesting that two snipers took pop shots at starving civilians outside the Convention Center. And a civilian car was heavily struck with sniper gunfire while travelling I-10. I don't have any Internet source except pictures and word from CNN. I'll get more sustaining sources as they come in.

Instead of helping those in need or just going to proper refugee staging areas, these assholes feel the impulse to kill people and harass the recovery and reconstruction process. These people are true domestic terrorists that need to be tortured, drawn and quartered.

Praying for the victims,
SuperShot5000

P.S. What the f*ck is going on at the convention center? People are literally starving and are beginning to drop dead from lack of medicine, dehydration, and now starvation. The Superdome people are faring quite well. They have showered, eaten, been given medicine, hydrated, and have lights and being rapidly evacuated. But these Convention Center people are starving and being shot at. There is no law enforcement or military presence. Not one feeding station is set up. There are no buses or helicopters coming, at all. Help needs to be sent to the ABANDONED refugees at the Convention Center immediatly or everyone there will eventually die.

[Baboonass]

P.S. What the f*** is going on at the convention center? People are literally starving and are beginning to drop dead from lack of medicine, dehydration, and now starvation. The Superdome people are faring OK, but these Convention Center people are starving and being shot at.

Unless you are an infant it's highly unlikely you will starve to death in 4 days.

[Laworkerbee]

Yes clean water is more important than food

[ElHombre]

Unless you are an infant it's highly unlikely you will starve to death in 4 days.

there's plenty of infants there. and supplies can't get in except by helo, of which there apparantly aren't enough of. then there's the problem with corpses lying around.

they've opened up the old astrodome in houston to take on the refugees. one 20-yr old guy loaded up a school bus and drove from NO to houston. woot

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Its really time to send in a lot more Guard troops so we can get these animals. No compassion for these animals who shoot innocent starving people. Doesn't surprise me really, since all the gang members were too poor to leave.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

horrible situation over there

[SuperShot5000]

Still, there are no buses coming at all to get these people out of there or mass food drops coming because that sector right now is lawless. An Army Blackhawk dropped enough MRE's for only 2-3 dozen people. There's about 20,000 there. The only food they've gotten is that and candy from a 7-11 they broke into. Unless 7-11 magically restocks and the people can survive off of Ho-Ho's, with the plan the government has in order so far, there will be 20,000 dead filling the convention center.

[Baboonass]

Unless you are an infant it's highly unlikely you will starve to death in 4 days.

there's plenty of infants there. and supplies can't get in except by helo, of which there apparantly aren't enough of. then there's the problem with corpses lying around.



Self solving problem.


Sorry, parlor humor.



The problem is helos dropping supplies are being shot at. Help is on the way via Navy and NG, but now they'll have to be very cautious as to protect themselves. More time.

[SuperShot5000]

Its really time to send in a lot more Guard troops so we can get these animals. No compassion for these animals who shoot innocent starving people. Doesn't surprise me really, since all the gang members were to poor to leave.

You'd be surprised about how much money well-businessed drug dealers make. They spend too much money evading the cops and for their fresh gear. So that's why they live in the projects instead of a mansion.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Still, there are no buses coming at all to get these people out of there or mass food drops coming because that sector right now is lawless. An Army Blackhawk dropped enough MRE's for only 2-3 dozen people. There's about 20,000 there. The only food they've gotten is that and candy from a 7-11 they broke into. Unless 7-11 magically restocks and the people can survive off of Ho-Ho's, with the plan the government has in order so far, there will be 20,000 dead filling the convention center.

Well I think about 2 million MRE's are on their way right now.

[Macs.]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

The various blogs are reporting that volunteers are being turned away by the authorities on the perimeter, after many of them were being shot at by looters. CNN and NBC have hired PMC/PSD teams for their newscrews, and consider the area to be a warzone*.

How the hell did this go down so far, so quickly?


* *******, not sure if the source link will work... http://today.*******.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=televisionNews&storyID=2005-09-01T061420Z_01_HO005371_RTRIDST_0_TELEVISION-KATRINA-DC.XML

[SuperShot5000]

New Source - (doesn't cover sniper incidents in detail, though)

FEMA's distarous management called, "National Disgrace", New Orleans mayor issues SOS.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

PMC teams are already in the city because of the war-like atmosphere. 40,000 National guardsmen from Kentucky, Tennesee, and Texas are on the way. An unknown number of police officers and sheriff's deputies are en route to New Orleans and Biloxi, Mississippi to help out overwhelmed officers.

[Miles.]

Hundred dollar question:

Is this a reporter calling these punks snipers, or are they real snipers?

[JoaMei]

Be careful when the Media writes about Snipers.... that only means somebody shot at someone from more than 10 meters away or wasnt seen.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

The various blogs are reporting that volunteers are being turned away by the authorities on the perimeter, after many of them were being shot at by looters. CNN and NBC have hired PMC/PSD teams for their newscrews, and consider the area to be a warzone*.
How the hell did this go down so far, so quickly?


* *******, not sure if the source link will work... http://today.*******.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=televisionNews&storyID=2005-09-01T061420Z_01_HO005371_RTRIDST_0_TELEVISION-KATRINA-DC.XML

Really sad that CNN is having to hire PMC's. But on the other hand, Blackwater might do some good hunting. At the very least the military should be putting their non-lethal weapons to use.

[Fintin]

what the FECK...i dont get it...what is happening...people have had it bad enough down there....now some inbred back waters **** is shooting at people...

[SuperShot5000]

Situation at the Cenvention Center.


Outside the center, people complained that they were evacuated, taken to the convention hall by bus, dropped off and given nothing.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside, and hungry people broke through the steel doors to a food service entrance and began pushing out pallets of water and juice and whatever else they could find.
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered with a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

“I don’t treat my dog like that,” Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. “I buried my dog.”



This is bull****. This hurricane happened 4 days ago and **** is happening for those HUMAN BEINGS outside of the center, who are starving and being shot at.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

Sounds like they need the USMC and 82nd ABN more than they need food....


So, how bout that homeland defence thing, eh?

[Stormy]

I think it's a good time to send some high ranked special operation snipers in some buildings and some rooftops at certain points of the city. This way they could catch the group of no-good-doers who causing this shooting problem.

[SuperShot5000]

Hundred dollar question:

Is this a reporter calling these punks snipers, or are they real snipers?

From eyewitness accounts, hospital staff and armed guards, who returned fire at the sniper, saw a man with a white shirt about 300 yards away from a 3rd floor window with a scoped rifle.

So probably it's a sniper sniper.

[stuntman]

This is ****ing madness! I cannot believe what is going down. But as much as I hate the looters , I really hate how people who oppose Bush are politicizing the issue and calling this situation a failure. Scary ****...

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Situation at the Cenvention Center.


Outside the center, people complained that they were evacuated, taken to the convention hall by bus, dropped off and given nothing.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside, and hungry people broke through the steel doors to a food service entrance and began pushing out pallets of water and juice and whatever else they could find.
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered with a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

“I don’t treat my dog like that,” Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. “I buried my dog.”



This is bull****. This hurricane happened 4 days ago and **** is happening for those HUMAN BEINGS outside of the center, who are starving and being shot at.

Easier said then done. Its really ****ty but transporting enough food for tens of thousands of people while all the roads are flooded, and people are shooting at you is difficult. It would be a hell of a lot easier if we didn't have all these idiots around. They're just causing more chaos and death.

[Miles.]

I think it's a good time to send some high ranked special operation snipers in some buildings and some rooftops at certain points of the city. This way they could catch the group of no-good-doers who causing this shooting problem.

High-ranking? rofl rofl

Just set-up Scout/Sniper school in New Orleans...

[Stormy]

:lol: yeah, that too.

BTW: You think it's a good idea ? :P

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Just send in 150 AMTRACKS and some Scout Snipers, that would honestly help things out.

[James]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

One might say the same thing about the people who didn't leave BEFORE Katrina made landfall... They didn't see this coming?

I feel bad for the old people, the young, and those who were unable to leave. For the rest... it's difficult to feel sympathy.

[SuperShot5000]

Just send in 150 AMTRACKS and some Scout Snipers, that would honestly help things out.

Gotta remember that a large hunk of our military is overseas.

Some other articles I found.

Diseased Water Flooding New OrleansWill Create Disease
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9147259/

N.O. Hospitals Shot At, Looted, And Have Run Out of Medicine
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9159903/

Just got word that 3 people commited suicide by jumping off either the convention center or the Superdome. True?

[sp2c]

I think resources should be spent on getting food to the starving people not hunting down looters right now.

imo they should start parachuting in supplies (and paratroopers/paramedics to secure the convention center??) with c130's ... saturate the area with mre's better drop in too much then too little

[Telnyashka]

disasters bring out the worst in humanity.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Just send in 150 AMTRACKS and some Scout Snipers, that would honestly help things out.

Gotta remember that a large hunk of our military is overseas.

Some other articles I found.

Diseased Water Flooding New OrleansWill Create Disease
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9147259/

N.O. Hospitals Shot At, Looted, And Have Run Out of Medicine
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9159903/

Just got word that 3 people commited suicide by jumping off either the convention center or the Superdome. True?

Still more than enough here to clean things up. Ten soldiers walking down a street with m16's and SAW's should scare the looters pretty good.

[BadKarma26]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

One might say the same thing about the people who didn't leave BEFORE Katrina made landfall... They didn't see this coming?

I feel bad for the old people, the young, and those who were unable to leave. For the rest... it's difficult to feel sympathy.

The National Guard is going to get the job done guys. Miss and L.A. ARNG activation numbers are being raised from 7,000 Soldiers to about 18,000 from what I've heard. A Guardsman has been shot by a looter from what I just heard. I wish I could be there to help out :| but have faith; these guys will accomplish their objectives.

[SuperShot5000]

Agreed, CONSERVATIVE33. It's kind of hard when people on the ground with RPK's are shooting your helicopter when all you're trying to do is help a brother or sister in need.

There should be a special corner in hell for the New Orleans looters and shooters.

[Miles.]

Gotta remember that a large hunk of our military is overseas.

Not so fast.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/end-strength.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/deploy.htm

US Armed Forces End-Strength: 2,923,966 (2004)

US Armed Forces World-Wide Deployment: 393,569 (2004)

Which brings the percentage of US military deployed to: 13.5%

According to Global Security.org ;)

[Evildave]

Dont worry folks. I read in another post that the French are coming to help us!

[Trident-za]

disasters bring out the worst in humanity.

Indeed. It doesn't take much, apparently, for people to behave really badly when things get tough. Crap situation to be in... and it's easy to point fingers, while you type on the internet and use the microwave to heat your dinner. I'm not excusing the behaviour of the looters etc, just pointing out that things are always a bit tougher to deal with when it's actually happening to you.

I really hope the authorities can get things under control soon.

[XASA]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

One might say the same thing about the people who didn't leave BEFORE Katrina made landfall... They didn't see this coming?

I feel bad for the old people, the young, and those who were unable to leave. For the rest... it's difficult to feel sympathy.

I thought the same thing until CNN's Jack MaCafferty said this afternoon that most of the people who are now stranded on the submerged streets of New Orleans and inside the hellish Superdome were the city's poor who didn't have cars to leave the city. Even if they could leave town, they wouldn't have the financial means to support themselves.

Others probably stayed because they anticipated looting would break out after the hurricane and wanted to protect their property; in hindsight, not a bad decision to have made.

I bet more than a few people stayed because of the thrill factor and being able to have bragging rights about "surviving the big one".

If I was a criminal, I would have probably stayed, too, because of possible post-disaster looting. The reason we have a NG is to deploy them during a natural disaster to not only assist people but to stop any looting. The slow deployment of the NG (and other state and federal aid) will certainly be a topic for discussion over the coming weeks if not years.

Whatever their reason, I think all of them-- with the exception of the criminals who surface in any disaster-- deserve not only our sympathy, but our support and prayers as well.

[Flagg]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

One might say the same thing about the people who didn't leave BEFORE Katrina made landfall... They didn't see this coming?

I feel bad for the old people, the young, and those who were unable to leave. For the rest... it's difficult to feel sympathy.

I thought the same thing until CNN's Jack MaCafferty said this afternoon that most of the people who are now stranded on the submerged streets of New Orleans and inside the hellish Superdome were the city's poor who didn't have cars to leave the city. Even if they could leave town, they wouldn't have the financial means to support themselves.

Others probably stayed because they anticipated looting would break out after the hurricane and wanted to protect their property; in hindsight, not a bad decision to have made.

I bet more than a few people stayed because of the thrill factor and being able to have bragging rights about "surviving the big one".

If I was a criminal, I would have probably stayed, too, because of possible post-disaster looting. The reason we have a NG is to deploy them during a natural disaster to not only assist people but to stop any looting. The slow deployment of the NG (and other state and federal aid) will certainly be a topic for discussion over the coming weeks if not years.

Whatever their reason, I think all of them-- with the exception of the criminals who surface in any disaster-- deserve not only our sympathy, but our support and prayers as well.

Well said...I think you're spot on

[Abolith]

Dont worry folks. I read in another post that the French are coming to help us!

ya well then good. asmuch as I may disagree with French politics and choices on the international stage, they ARE our allies and if they want to help so much the better.[/list]

[CONSERVATIVE53]

Now we're getting somewhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/309e0a3c.jpg

[Evildave]

I was just watching CNN when one of their medical correspondants was doing a report when their amphibious vehicle that was ferrying patients to other hospitals came under heavy sniper fire. Gangs of armed looters with M-4's, AK47's, RPK's and pistols have taken over many New Orleans streets in order to loot them dry.

There have been other reports suggesting that two snipers took pop shots at starving civilians outside the Convention Center. And a civilian car was heavily struck with sniper gunfire while travelling I-10. I don't have any Internet source except pictures and word from CNN. I'll get more sustaining sources as they come in.

Instead of helping those in need or just going to proper refugee staging areas, these assholes feel the impulse to kill people and harass the recovery and reconstruction process. These people are true domestic terrorists that need to be tortured, drawn and quartered.

Praying for the victims,
SuperShot5000

P.S. What the f*ck is going on at the convention center? People are literally starving and are beginning to drop dead from lack of medicine, dehydration, and now starvation. The Superdome people are faring quite well. They have showered, eaten, been given medicine, hydrated, and have lights and being rapidly evacuated. But these Convention Center people are starving and being shot at. There is no law enforcement or military presence. Not one feeding station is set up. There are no buses or helicopters coming, at all. Help needs to be sent to the ABANDONED refugees at the Convention Center immediatly or everyone there will eventually die.I dont think a lot of people understand the scope of this diaster. The feds are doing everything they can to help but it is going to take time. Hell you cant get in and you cant get out! The Navy is on thier way as are many other assets. These people in the out lying areas that are shooting at the helos,,,,,are they really or are they trying to get some ones attention? Out here in Colorado if you are lost and have a gun you are supposed to put one shot in the air every hour or such. I just think that the blame game has already started and it is way to early for it. There are much more pressing needs.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

he219 posted these.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/129/42157428646pq.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4994/42157431208hh.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5295/42157428450ig.jpg

[MacDaddy]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

You mean the Guard units in Iraq?? Might take a while... :bash:

[Red]

I just saw a video of people in Miss picking through garbage to find food.Heartbreaking.

[Herrmannek]

I just saw a video of people in Miss picking through garbage to find food.Heartbreaking.

BS, 3 days isn't enough to make people dive into garbage in search for food...

[Evildave]

I just saw a video of people in Miss picking through garbage to find food.Heartbreaking.

BS, 3 days isn't enough to make people dive into garbage in search for food...I saw it as well,,,,and 3 days without food your g#dd*m right I'd be hitting the nearest food source!!!

[Red]

I just saw a video of people in Miss picking through garbage to find food.Heartbreaking.

BS, 3 days isn't enough to make people dive into garbage in search for food...
You obviously have not gone 3 days without food.I have and it aint funny.

[XTC]

Now we're getting somewhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/309e0a3c.jpg

It looks like South Africa in the 80's :(

[Name Taken]

You wouldn't believe the people in this world. A close friend of mine is training to be a paramedic and worked as an EMT on an ambulence (911 truck, not transporting seniors) in Indianapolis. Some of the stories he has are just shocking. People-are-crazy. He worked in a large low-income area and dealt with so many people. One guy had cut his own ears off and wanted to touch my buddy's radio. He kept stopping him so he freaked out, and I mean FREAKED out. As medics/EMTs they're technically not allowed to hit the guy so they ran from him, the psycho was chasing them when he saw a fire hidrant, ran over to it, touched it, and was immediately composed.

People will call 911 to lure ambulences into a place where they can attack the medics, people will call almost daily just for attention.

Inner city areas with a high poverty area, not to generalize but this is how he sees it, attract crazies.

The world is a messed up place, full of messed up people. I'm no expert, but I'd say the guy shooting at the hospital isn't all there. And the roving armed groups are just greedy, uneducated, animals who essentially, don't see any harm in what they are doing.

[Dalleer]

I hope the national guard and the law enforcement agencies can get the armed robbers into control fast.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

More police.

<img src=http://cache.*****images.com/comp/53538361.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DED2E72DB43C85B44532A92BB30C0DE0FF621B2AC3A62513D3>
<img src=http://cache.*****images.com/comp/53688301.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=F86D8AF4014F7518D2364A08FB78D70EA9C30E9B9B114CE8>
<img src=http://cache.*****images.com/comp/53588164.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DED2E72DB43C85B445EE1418F3EEC52822621B2AC3A62513D3>
<img src=http://cache.*****images.com/comp/53685556.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=F86D8AF4014F7518D33028E0E1BCFF1AA9C30E9B9B114CE8>
[quote]A man walks past law enforcement

[dacanadianbomb]

IN this situation it shows the creature called human in its true colours.
The good and the bad.The very good and the very bad.

[joemanu]

I would like to know why there is so much looting in the first place. This is something that surprises me every time there is some kind of disaster in the US. In recent years there have been huge floods in France and Germany and only a few days before the hurricane hit the US, whole regions in Central Europe were also flooded, yet I didn't see any looting in the news.

I would especially like to read the opinions of the Americans in the forum, maybe the American media has made reports about why this is happening and not only showed the consequences.

And please, don't take offence because it is not intended. On the contrary, you have my sympathy in this time of need. If I am surprised is precisely because of the high opinion I have of Americans in general. On the few occasions I've been in the US, most people I met were kind and helpful. I'm really disappointed seeing so many people who seem they don't respect the law because it is the right thing to do but only because they are afraid of being caught and will jump at the first opportunity of getting away with crime.

Regards,

Joemanu

[Dalleer]

I'm pretty sure that it's the members of the lower social classes doing the looting in these cases.

[Chuckie]

I'm pretty sure that it's the members of the lower social classes doing the looting in these cases.

Yes, what they aren't mentioning in that New Orleans isn't that well off to begin with. For example somebody in New York making $50,000 can move to New Orleans and live at the same level for $19,000.

Here's alink http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/1998/0,4814,32322,00.html

[Eudes]

Why do we trust these people with weapons to begin with?

[josh10524]

Eudes, please don't go there. We don't need a debate about that here. RPKs aren't even legal anyway. Short answer - we don't trust them with that stuff, and they get it anyway.

[socom6]

The thing with New Orleans is that even before Katrina the city had a very bad rep as a "murder capital" it's police had a very hard time dealing with tha gangstas in the projects and wards in the city. Even during Mardi Gras tourists are thoroughly warned about straying into certain areas or they will be robbed and at worst killed. So when I see the looting and bs going there I wasnt surprised.

What kinda surprised me is the slowness of the reaction units with food and water to the designated refugee areas like the Dome and the Convention centre. I think more could be done at those areas, but then again I have to commend the efforts being done now. Too bad for those dumbarse nincompoops who shoot at rescue fast boats and helicopters and cause a suspension on rescue efforts. I hope that the NG and other law enforcement people deal with these stupid animals with extreme prejudice. :bash:

P.S. They cant find 'Fats' Domino I hope he's ok down there :(

[socom6]

BTW their Mayor kinda suck! :roll:

[Eudes]

Eudes, please don't go there. We don't need a debate about that here. RPKs aren't even legal anyway. Short answer - we don't trust them with that stuff, and they get it anyway.

Why not, this is a perfect example of why we shouldn't be armed to the teeth to defend ourselves. Granted people are going to have weapons but allowing everyone else to arm themselves is not a appropriate solution. Its like saying we should all buy our children SUVs because Nancy drives an Escalade putting everyone at risk. You are right, RPK's are not legal and no doubt there are few of them on the street is any.

[Aerosoul]

Eudes, please don't go there. We don't need a debate about that here. RPKs aren't even legal anyway. Short answer - we don't trust them with that stuff, and they get it anyway.

Why not, this is a perfect example of why we shouldn't be armed to the teeth to defend ourselves. Granted people are going to have weapons but allowing everyone else to arm themselves is not a appropriate solution. Its like saying we should all buy our children SUVs because Nancy drives an Escalade putting everyone at risk. You are right, RPK's are not legal and no doubt there are few of them on the street is any.

arguing an anti-gun stance when the perpetrators were using already-illegal weapons is not really gonna help, bud.

[bluffcove]

Eudes, please don't go there. We don't need a debate about that here. RPKs aren't even legal anyway. Short answer - we don't trust them with that stuff, and they get it anyway.

Why not, this is a perfect example of why we shouldn't be armed to the teeth to defend ourselves. Granted people are going to have weapons but allowing everyone else to arm themselves is not a appropriate solution. Its like saying we should all buy our children SUVs because Nancy drives an Escalade putting everyone at risk. You are right, RPK's are not legal and no doubt there are few of them on the street is any.

follow your logic and you would be banning all cars?

(I think)

[Hadfield]

God be with them.

[SuperShot5000]

BTW their Mayor kinda suck! :roll:

Not exactly, socom6. The mayor is trying to get resources to the imminently doomed Convention Center where people are being robbed, raped, shot by snipers, dying of dehydration, starvation, and lack of medicine. These people are so desperate that they have began wading in New Orleans's diseased, corpse-filled, chest-high waters to reach the Superdome, where they will be fare off, and an unlucky few have even KILLED THEMSELVES due to the diddly **** happening at the Convention Center. People at the Superdome are being showered, fed, hydrated, and kept on proper medicine and evacuated out of state. The Superdome is stable. Leave behind a few food crews and send every National Guard resource to the Convention Center. There's no excuse - the Superdome saw more destruction and flooding than the convention center did. Something needs to be done, or you'll see a Port-Au-Prince lawlessness occur after the President Aristide was overthrown a couple of years ago.

Something needs to be done - now. Please help those in need (I'm pooling as much money as I can and starting a Goods Drive at my school.) People in this situation are not only fellow Americans, but they are HUMAN BEINGS (except the looters and shooters - they are not even human) HELP YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/animal_environ/hurricanes/?source=AOL&cmpgn=AIM

Hoping for the best,
SuperShot5000

[Eudes]

follow your logic and you would be banning all cars?

(I think)

It wouldn't hurt, but that would be unreasonable because it is absolutly necessary to the well being of our economy and Americans to have vehicles to run businesses and go to work, however it is not necessary that everyone drives or that Nancy drives an Escalade (as it is necessary that the military and police forces have a weapons arsenal.) Interesting, now that I ponder it, our driving habits also have a direct correlation to the increasing violent hurricane seasons. Who is really killing more, gun owning gang bangers in N.O. or car driving me? :/

[ElHombre]

I would like to know why there is so much looting in the first place. This is something that surprises me every time there is some kind of disaster in the US.

as far as this disaster goes, it's been days since the storm hit and these people are still in danger. relief is showing to be slow in coming. they have no water or food. i saw a report from a ritz hotel where the employees told the guests to loot the local store for supplies.


And please, don't take offence because it is not intended. On the contrary, you have my sympathy in this time of need. If I am surprised is precisely because of the high opinion I have of Americans in general. On the few occasions I've been in the US, most people I met were kind and helpful. I'm really disappointed seeing so many people who seem they don't respect the law because it is the right thing to do but only because they are afraid of being caught and will jump at the first opportunity of getting away with crime.

no offense taken and thanks for the compliment. :) if you want to help, i'd recommend giving to the red cross.

[Will Clark]

I would like to know why there is so much looting in the first place. This is something that surprises me every time there is some kind of disaster in the US. In recent years there have been huge floods in France and Germany and only a few days before the hurricane hit the US, whole regions in Central Europe were also flooded, yet I didn't see any looting in the news. Joemanu

First post for me, I've been trying to get in for a solid month and viewing on and off for about 1/2 a year.

The reason people are looting is probably because New Orleans is riddled with poor people. The reason that people are shooting at rescue workers and such is because its a ****hole.

[socom6]

BTW their Mayor kinda suck! :roll:

Not exactly, socom6. The mayor is trying to get resources to the imminently doomed Convention Center where people are being robbed, raped, shot by snipers, dying of dehydration, starvation, and lack of medicine. These people are so desperate that they have began wading in New Orleans's diseased, corpse-filled, chest-high waters to reach the Superdome, where they will be fare off, and an unlucky few have even KILLED THEMSELVES due to the diddly **** happening at the Convention Center. People at the Superdome are being showered, fed, hydrated, and kept on proper medicine and evacuated out of state. The Superdome is stable. Leave behind a few food crews and send every National Guard resource to the Convention Center. There's no excuse - the Superdome saw more destruction and flooding than the convention center did. Something needs to be done, or you'll see a Port-Au-Prince lawlessness occur after the President Aristide was overthrown a couple of years ago.

Something needs to be done - now. Please help those in need (I'm pooling as much money as I can and starting a Goods Drive at my school.) People in this situation are not only fellow Americans, but they are HUMAN BEINGS (except the looters and shooters - they are not even human) HELP YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/animal_environ/hurricanes/?source=AOL&cmpgn=AIM

Hoping for the best,
SuperShot5000

I hear you SuperShot5000 and you are correct in many aspects there in your post. But I think this Mayor is too low keyed and looks like he's not in not in the command loop at all, he seems too light weight for a Mayor who's city has just been devastated.

And yes things should be getting faster to the Convention center, the Mayor should have been making a big stink over the slowness of things there. The rescue effort has got off to a very shaky start in NO, it obviously seems that the rescue people did not know that a large amount of folks stayed back after the curdling warnings that a catatrophe of biblical proportions was going to happen there, and they now have to deal with them.

Im with you SuperShot5000 I hope to God every thing works out in the coming days as I think it will. Lets help these people in their houre of need.

[ZoneOne]

all i got to say is come up with a better plan yourselves

get the man power to take it on -- and cordinate it all -- if you've got such a good idea -- why dont you call the governor ?


instead of b!tching here online

[Chuckie]

How many shootings on average occured daily in New Orleans before the flood?

[Makaveli]

BS, 3 days isn't enough to make people dive into garbage in search for food...

Are you serious? That was probably the only food around they could find.

3 days without food in conditions like this is harsh. You have to remember that some of these people have been walking for miles in chest high water.

[Red]

How many here have actually donated to the effort?cause there is way more bitching than solutions being bandied around.

[Belrick]

How easily they fell into anarchy :( HOw easy it was for armed thugs to roam and terrorise the streets.

Oh well after all yanks it is what guns are designed to do and since they have constitutional rights to bear arms....
Glad i live in a society thats not armed to the teeth.

[MichaelF]

How easily they fell into anarchy :( HOw easy it was for armed thugs to roam and terrorise the streets.

Oh well after all yanks it is what guns are designed to do and since they have constitutional rights to bear arms....
Glad i live in a society thats not armed to the teeth.

Shut your mouth, foreigner.

[UoUo]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are ****ing ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

[Secret Squirrel]

How many shootings on average occured daily in New Orleans before the flood?

265 murders in 2004 and 192 this year (up to the beginning of the storm). And keep in mind, this only includes murders and not attempted murders, or any other kind of gun related violence. Earlier this year police fired off 700 blanks to see if anyone would report the gun shots; no one called.

[Stormy]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)

[EvanL]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)
it would have been easy as hell to steal though. Come night, my streets were empty!
Now the blackout in 2003, that would have just been stupid to try to loot in my neighbourhood then. Puerto Rican storeowners with their whole family at the door with like a pitbull each and baseball bats.
good times

[szr]

Some 300 Arkansas Guardsmen fresh back from Iraq have arrived in New Orleans and have been given full authority by the Governor of Louisiana to restore order.

heh From the Governor's quote, it sounds like they have the same ROE they had in Iraq. It's nuts down there...

No news link yet. Developing news I think.

[Dominique]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

Well, the state's governor has to order his state's NG to active duty (Title 32), then if he want's additional help he has to fromally request it from the President. The President then orders the Sec. of Defense to deploy whatever troops they feel they need to. If things really go to ****, the Federal Government can impose martial law, which means the fed take over and the military will enforce the law, the state guard troops with be federalized (Title 10), and fall under the control of an active duty commander. It's a little mor complicated tahn people think.

[Stormy]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)
it would have been easy as hell to steal though. Come night, my streets were empty!
Now the blackout in 2003, that would have just been stupid to try to loot in my neighbourhood then. Puerto Rican storeowners with their whole family at the door with like a pitbull each and baseball bats.
good times

hehe we New yorkers protect our ****.. nah.. but some of us do. All I know during that blackout I didn't want no body getting to comfy in my building. They know I have a good pc and dj - production equipment and tons of records. I would of went out swinging my hand cannons. ;)

[iurtunc]

Some 300 Arkansas Guardsmen fresh back from Iraq have arrived in New Orleans and have been given full authority by the Governor of Louisiana to restore order.

heh From the Governor's quote, it sounds like they have the same ROE they had in Iraq. It's nuts down there...

No news link yet. Developing news I think.

thats good news.

[EvanL]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)
it would have been easy as hell to steal though. Come night, my streets were empty!
Now the blackout in 2003, that would have just been stupid to try to loot in my neighbourhood then. Puerto Rican storeowners with their whole family at the door with like a pitbull each and baseball bats.
good times

hehe we New yorkers protect our ****.. nah.. but some of us do. All I know during that blackout I didn't want no body getting to comfy in my building. They know I have a good pc and dj - production equipment and tons of records. I would of went out swinging my hand cannons. ;)
my dad made me sleep in the hallway with a bat and my dog.

[usa320]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)
it would have been easy as hell to steal though. Come night, my streets were empty!
Now the blackout in 2003, that would have just been stupid to try to loot in my neighbourhood then. Puerto Rican storeowners with their whole family at the door with like a pitbull each and baseball bats.
good times

hehe we New yorkers protect our ****.. nah.. but some of us do. All I know during that blackout I didn't want no body getting to comfy in my building. They know I have a good pc and dj - production equipment and tons of records. I would of went out swinging my hand cannons. ;)
my dad made me sleep in the hallway with a bat and my dog.

durring the blackout they had a heavily enforced curfew in effect in our town. Everyone had to be inside after 8pm unless they were working.

Thankfully, our power was only out for 2-3 days.

[EvanL]

Well, he has some point in his post.

Anyway, what a shame! those looters should be shoot! those people are f*** ass holes.

I saw how people act in New York when the Twins fell down. and it was so amazing to see how they united and help each other.

I tought that in New orleans the people will act the same.
But no. :( that just sad.

Different Crisis, UoUo. In NYC a cartain area of the city was attacked by man, not like a natural disaster that consumes your whole city for miles upon miles and makes it look like a nuclear strike. Also, our mayor at the time did a good thing with his fast thinking and good management. 2 very different dilemmas. I gotta teach you everything. ;)
it would have been easy as hell to steal though. Come night, my streets were empty!
Now the blackout in 2003, that would have just been stupid to try to loot in my neighbourhood then. Puerto Rican storeowners with their whole family at the door with like a pitbull each and baseball bats.
good times

hehe we New yorkers protect our ****.. nah.. but some of us do. All I know during that blackout I didn't want no body getting to comfy in my building. They know I have a good pc and dj - production equipment and tons of records. I would of went out swinging my hand cannons. ;)
my dad made me sleep in the hallway with a bat and my dog.

durring the blackout they had a heavily enforced curfew in effect in our town. Everyone had to be inside after 8pm unless they were working.

Thankfully, our power was only out for 2-3 days.
i walked through manhattan the whole night just chilling.
its wicked to see the city that never sleeps turn the lights off. ;)

[UoUo]

Well Stormy, you have a point. but still in bad times people should stick togther. even if that were two diffrend cases.

i'd exspect people to help eachother when **** happens. and not to rob each other.

[szr]

i walked through manhattan the whole night just chilling.
its wicked to see the city that never sleeps turn the lights off. ;)
I was in the city for the blackout. I live downtown. One of the most enjoyable nights I can remember. We had a good time with the lights out. The city was great. No problems. No trouble. Just everyone taking it in stride and trying to make the best of the situation.

It had to have sucked to have been an LIRR or Metro North commuter stuck in the city with no way to get home to E. LI or Connecticut or wherever, though. Saw a lot of commuter businessmen hanging off the backs of trucks, trying to ride out of the city. Others just camped out wherever they could, and some people even humped it home.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

Some 300 Arkansas Guardsmen fresh back from Iraq have arrived in New Orleans and have been given full authority by the Governor of Louisiana to restore order.

heh From the Governor's quote, it sounds like they have the same ROE they had in Iraq. It's nuts down there...

No news link yet. Developing news I think.

The Interdictor &lt;a href=http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/>The only live webcam and net connection down there, being run by a bunch of cops and ex-SF holed up in an ISP with plenty of ammo and fuel&lt;/a> reports that there are Marines arriving, and lots of them, with AMTRAKs.

WTF, why isn't my code working.. :(

[Secret Squirrel]

So, how long does it take for the NG to get there... I mean didn't they see this coming ?

Well, the state's governor has to order his state's NG to active duty (Title 32), then if he want's additional help he has to fromally request it from the President. The President then orders the Sec. of Defense to deploy whatever troops they feel they need to. If things really go to ****, the Federal Government can impose martial law, which means the fed take over and the military will enforce the law, the state guard troops with be federalized (Title 10), and fall under the control of an active duty commander. It's a little mor complicated tahn people think.

I believe Marshal law was declared in Mississippi and Louisiana on tuesday.

[Bama_Operator]

I'll give you some additional info that I picked up today from 2 of my neighbors, one a Causeway Police Officer and the other a NOPD SWAT Team Member.

1.) They have no communications anywhere between St. Tammany Parish, New Orleans, Jefferson Parish, etc.

2.) Police Officers are being engaged and have no way of calling for backup.

3.) 140 NOPD supposedly "walked off the job" yesterday due to escalating danger, no food, and no water for the PD.

4.) People have tried ramming their cars through the road blocks on the Causeway so that they can make it to the Northshore.

5.) 3 attempts have been made by boat from the Southshore by looters to enter Mandeville for looting purposes, but were intercepted by Mandeville Police/ Causeway Police/ St. Tammany Parish Sherriffs Office.

I stopped by my house today to survey for damage (minimal), and check in with my neighbors. I-10 is closed just past Baton Rouge Eastbound. I-12 through Slidell is open, and merges back with I-10. The road is clear all the way through except for the bridge at Pascagula, which was hit by a barge in the east bound lane.

Slidell through Ocean Springs looks like a war zone. Cars abandoned on the side of I-10, turned over vehicles, downed lines, trees down everywhere. Multiple sorties being flown by NG in blackhawks, as they are using I-10 and a nav aide.

I felt sorry for my neighbors as they were "getting ready to head back in". They did advise me to keep a firearm in my vehicle for safety reasons (I packed up my Kimber and Winchester Defender 12 gage). I am heading to Va to drop the wife's vehicle off while she stays up there with our families until things settle down. I am flying back next week, and I will try to keep you guys posted on what I hear from my neighbors.

Pray for these people. I never thought I would see this type of situation here in our own country

[James]

Watch six man. Stay safe.

[Red]

I got this off another blog maintained by a guy who is hunkered down in NO.

The following is the result of an interview I just conducted via cell phone with a New Orleans citizen stranded at the Convention Center. I don't know what you're hearing in the mainstream media or in the press conferences from the city and state officials, but here is the truth:

"Bigfoot" is a bar manager and DJ on Bourbon Street, and is a local personality and icon in the city. He is a lifelong resident of the city, born and raised. He rode out the storm itself in the Iberville Projects because he knew he would be above any flood waters. Here is his story as told to me moments ago. I took notes while he talked and then I asked some questions:


Three days ago, police and national guard troops told citizens to head toward the Crescent City Connection Bridge to await transportation out of the area. The citizens trekked over to the Convention Center and waited for the buses which they were told would take them to Houston or Alabama or somewhere else, out of this area.

It's been 3 days, and the buses have yet to appear.

Although obviously he has no exact count, he estimates more than 10,000 people are packed into and around and outside the convention center still waiting for the buses. They had no food, no water, and no medicine for the last three days, until today, when the National Guard drove over the bridge above them, and tossed out supplies over the side crashing down to the ground below. Much of the supplies were destroyed from the drop. Many people tried to catch the supplies to protect them before they hit the ground. Some offered to walk all the way around up the bridge and bring the supplies down, but any attempt to approach the police or national guard resulted in weapons being aimed at them.

There are many infants and elderly people among them, as well as many people who were injured jumping out of windows to escape flood water and the like -- all of them in dire straights.

Any attempt to flag down police results in being told to get away at gunpoint. Hour after hour they watch buses pass by filled with people from other areas. Tensions are very high, and there has been at least one murder and several fights. 8 or 9 dead people have been stored in a freezer in the area, and 2 of these dead people are kids.

The people are so desperate that they're doing anything they can think of to impress the authorities enough to bring some buses. These things include standing in single file lines with the eldery in front, women and children next; sweeping up the area and cleaning the windows and anything else that would show the people are not barbarians.

The buses never stop.

Before the supplies were pitched off the bridge today, people had to break into buildings in the area to try to find food and water for their families. There was not enough. This spurred many families to break into cars to try to escape the city. There was no police response to the auto thefts until the mob reached the rich area -- Saulet Condos -- once they tried to get cars from there... well then the whole swat teams began showing up with rifles pointed. Snipers got on the roof and told people to get back.

He reports that the conditions are horrendous. Heat, mosquitoes and utter misery. The smell, he says, is "horrific."

He says it's the slowest mandatory evacuation ever, and he wants to know why they were told to go to the Convention Center area in the first place; furthermore, he reports that many of them with cell phones have contacts willing to come rescue them, but people are not being allowed through to pick them up.


I have "Bigfoot"'s phone number and will gladly give it to any city or state official who would like to tell him how everything is under control.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

[usa320]

you know, i am really losing alot of sympathy for these people.

Maybe if they didnt take potshots at the cops and try to shoot down helicopters, they wouldnt get guns pointed at them.

:bash:

[Seraphim]

Bama, make sure you lock your doors and use the bumper because thats what its for.

[Midav]

A shame as to what is happening.

If people are hungry and thirsty and need to take care of themselves or the family, I understand why they are taking food and water. I am certain anyone here would.

But I've seen pics of people with 15 jeans, or jewelry, furniture, TV's etc running around....

That is materialistic plundering and not a necessity to help one or ones family to survive.

[JoaMei]

I read the NG has now shoot to kill orders, true?

[ViktorNavorski]

I read the NG has now shoot to kill orders, true?

Yup...


These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets. They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.

'Shoot to kill', troops told (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/shoot-to-kill-national-guard-told/2005/09/02/1125302719627.html)

[rocket13]

I'm watching this on the news and have been reading whats coming out. How has it gotten so bad? I doubt it be like this if it happened to any other city. These people are shooting at the very people trying to help them. Plus on top of that, why is the rescue operation not going so well.

I've heard that in the superdome, that people are getting raped. Its getting to be a mad house. They need to clamp down on the lawlessness even if it means that those that resist and cause trouble become "victims of the flooding".

[Midav]

I read the NG has now shoot to kill orders, true?

Yup...


These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets. They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.

'Shoot to kill', troops told (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/shoot-to-kill-national-guard-told/2005/09/02/1125302719627.html)

I am very sad to see this happen, but the trash needs to be dealt with. I call these so called humans trash because that is what they are. They are stealing not to survive, but just because they can. They are firing at the rescue choppers. They are raping. They are being stupid in general.

It is up to them to stop their behaviour. Self responsibility live in action.

[Will Clark]

So far as I'm concerned this is an attack on American soil by domestic terrorists, treat them accordingly.

[RGRBOX]

what the FECK...i dont get it...what is happening...people have had it bad enough down there....now some inbred back waters **** is shooting at people...

Becarful of what your saying, these people who are do this aren't hicks, cajuns, rednecks etc.... they're blacks from within the city... they are drop outs, people who are'nt educated, who think the world owes them something, and who will point the finger at everyone except themselves... the state has done everything it could to get those people out, but they chose to stay, most aren't pissed about staying, just pissed about not being able to get Free food and Free water.. and now they want out.. but because of the gangs of black men running around robbing looting, and stealing weapons from gun shops, now they are working hard to protect what they have stolen... I saw a pic of a lady with about 10 pairs of shoes just stolen , around her neck.. look at what they do after the eat chips etc... at lot of them just throw the paper down on the ground, these are people without any since of helping others... on the other side of the story, there are many people who need real help, who are trapped, and have no way to help themselves... these people are getting picked up, and rescued... then there are those who are out there helping others... CNN doen't waist it's time reporting these people... I find it crazy when a CNN helo flys over a house to film the people with signs out saying help, and they don't even try to... The media, is out there making the story... they are out there getting the angle that fits their agenda... when they could be out there helping

As a native from central Louisiana (CENLA) if find it warming to hear what a lot of good people are doing to help others. On the other hand, I'm completely embarrased to see what the other half are doing...

[Argyll]

There is no doubt the magnitide of the task ahead to help these people,the rich and insured will be fine,I'm concerned about the poor,destitute and homeless what becomes of them?..........they had little before the Disaster,they have even less now.

How does a National Guardsman feel about shooting fellow Americans?

How does the City prepare for such a future Hurricane.......?

The situation is desperate,no doubt about it.......but knowing what was coming,the NG and the rest of the Country's Emergency Depts. should have been placed on High Alert ready for immediate deployment in the Hurricanes aftermath!!

It appears that the NO administartion were caught short when implementing any Disaster plans,which surely they must've had in place?

I wish the best for the people of New Orleans,it's going to be a long road to recovery

[RGRBOX]

There is no doubt the magnitide of the task ahead to help these people,the rich and insured will be fine,I'm concerned about the poor,destitute and homeless what becomes of them?..........they had little before the Disaster,they have even less now.

How does a National Guardsman feel about shooting fellow Americans?

How does the City prepare for such a future Hurricane.......?

The situation is desperate,no doubt about it.......but knowing what was coming,the NG and the rest of the Country's Emergency Depts. should have been placed on High Alert ready for immediate deployment in the Hurricanes aftermath!!

It appears that the NO administartion were caught short when implementing any Disaster plans,which surely they must've had in place?

I wish the best for the people of New Orleans,it's going to be a long road to recovery

Your right on this 100%..

I was just watching the news and saw an interveiw from a CNN reporter with a Sen. from my state... this lady was so full of ****... she offered nothing to suggest that she was doing anything except to show how thankful she was that the govn't was starting to do something now... As you said before, I find it strange that the govn't didn't better prepare for this... the new it was going to hit the gulf region, but they didn't show any signs that they were alerting the assets needed to do the jub.. and now by being late, they have put themselves sinto a hard situation... now people are suffering and dieing.. there should be Bdes of troops down there helping, they could have called in the Homeland Security to help.. it doesn't take a specialist in RSQ services, to drive a truck, give out a blanket, set up a tent, and feed people.. but we do have all of these assests, and they are all on standby... I don't know who aragence this was who thought that NO would have stood up better to this, but being prepared or the lack of this is negligence...

[Dominique]

I read the NG has now shoot to kill orders, true?

Yup...


These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets. They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.

'Shoot to kill', troops told (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/shoot-to-kill-national-guard-told/2005/09/02/1125302719627.html)

The fact that the troops have been authorized to use force is not a "Shoot to kill order", that's the media hyping up the fact that the troops have been authroized to use force.

[Supe]

Well Stormy, you have a point. but still in bad times people should stick togther. even if that were two diffrend cases.

i'd exspect people to help eachother when **** happens. and not to rob each other.

There's no sense of community or empathy for their fellow citizen, just a me, me, me attitude and sense of entitlement. Going by previous posts commenting on the high murder and crime rates of N.O, it's easy to see that the social fabric that binds a society was pretty thin to start off with.

Poverty alone does not explain the violence and lawlessness that has gripped New Orleans. Anyway, anyone found maliciously hindering emergency services or threatening the lives of those working to restore order, should expect little mercy.

[David.Hasselhof]

Disaster *preparedness* emphasis on prepare. There should have been a forced evacuation. period. They're talking about people being loaded on buses *NOW*?

Responsibility should go from the lowest ranks on up.
First: The individual. Get your a$$ moving! get out of there a few days before you need to!
Second: NOLA Mayor. If you know you have something coming, how about getting a bunch of porta-potties in the superdome? Or MREs in the Convention center? If everyone's evacuated, If they aren't used, then you've spent some money transporting and storing -- nothing lost.
Third: Governor. The question isn't where the hell is he, the question is:"Where the hell were you when you should have been preparing the state's resources for the disaster?"
Third: FEMA: Jesus H. Christ. They've helped in flooding, tornadoes, earthquakes. What is going on?
President: Thank god he cut his vacation short. Something finally had to cut his 3 months of vacation. Americans dying for their country putting in 24/7 duty couldn't muster shorter "vacations", at least this did.

Least blame goes on Bush, in my opinion. And I don't even like the guy. The way I figure it is this: If people are warning you that the worst storm this century is coming your way, GET OUT OF THERE. If you don't, YOU'RE STUPID. And the mayor and gov. should have known there would be STUPID people in their state. They should have gotten buses together and shipped everyone out. For that, THEY ARE EVEN DUMBER.

my $0.02 (USD)

[BadKarma26]

good post. NO blame should rest with the Guardsmen. Everything I've heard indicates they are acting professionally and efficiently.

[Kilgor]

A german saying during the war went.. "first comes food, then comes morals"

wait till people start to get really hungry.

[magicpie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da680023f10/nb/09012da680024281_16x9_nb.asx

Here is a good bbc news report.. it disturbed me the most to hear the black criminals are raping babies :(

[Dominique]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da680023f10/nb/09012da680024281_16x9_nb.asx

Here is a good bbc news report.. it disturbed me the most to hear the black criminals are raping babies :(

As opposed to when white criminals rape them? Magicpie, I'll be blunt, stop with the dumb ****. :bash: Your recent posts here have really begun to annoy me.

[magicpie]

It's god damn racist/illegal to say the word "black" now? I was just being more specific, i've only ever seen black people doing the looting and touting guns on the news reports and images i have seen.

[Steve Andrews]

edit........

[PeterG]

Watching CNN - they report that up to 60% of police officers are not showing up, in certain districts of the city.Sounds incredible! Must be a crazy on the streets there.I predict a HUGE boom for the survivalist-industry in the wake of all this.

[Seraphim]

I would take pictures of all the officers looting and turn it in later. I hope those dozen pairs of shoes are worth your ****ing career!

[magicpie]

The police are too busy in walmart.

[Flagg]

Watching CNN - they report that up to 60% of police officers are not showing up, in certain districts of the city.Sounds incredible! Must be a crazy on the streets there.I predict a HUGE boom for the survivalist-industry in the wake of all this.

I wouldn't mind being a fireams dealer in the US right now.

After this, many more people that DON'T own firearms will soon own them

AND those that already do, will soon own more(or at least more rounds) ;)

[Dominique]

The police are too busy in walmart.

Magicpie, here you go again with the dumb ****. If you really feel that the cops are not doing enough, I suggest you run right down to NO, volunteer your services. I'm sure that with your many years of law enforcement experience they will be more than happy to have you on board.

[magicpie]

I take it you havnt seen the CNN reports of the police in walmart :lol:

[Dominique]

I've seen them. Just, becuase individual officers that have decided to ignore their sworn oathes, does not mean the entire NOPD has gone to **** (although they never really had a sterling rep to begin with).

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you. I'm trying to point out how some of your comments come across to others. The point I'm trying to get across to you is that you need to stop generalizing and making sweeping statements about whole groups of people. That's what I mean when I say stop with the dumb ****. OK?

[szr]

They've got sociologists trying to figure out what's going on in New Orleans...

[Argyll]

Watching CNN now,the place is decending into utter chaos,fires and explosions going off,police stations under fire.......looks more like Sadr city than New Orleans

the Mayor is ranting at GWB now!!

[None]

Horrible news.
The mayors, governors are as usual. ( In such cases elected pot smokers can't be given any authority. They just killed democracy another time. For me i am for junta Pinochet style. It just works better
Just few days ago I was talking to my dad over Iraq and told him that there's a lot to lern from the way yankees love their country and despite loses, they stand as one for the army, no mater how fair or not fair the war is. They are loyal and law obidding. He just smiled and said that its just on the top. I still stick to my opinon despite the fact that your politicians hate us more then ever and just can't stop diging our grave. (

I would like to put another point here. Centuries ago people fled from Europe for new hope, most had nothing, and they knew that the new land just gives them a chance, no riches there already, they worked their hands to the bone to built the current only superpower. They raised childred, less kids year after year per family, and they continue to work hard.

In the last dozens of years people that again have nothing but perfectly know that they are going to a rich country that will take care of them. And sure they don't use condoms. No need to work cause no one will let you die from starvation. Don't tell me how hard its for them to get a better life. I ' ve been to states, no tv crap ok.

Which brings to another conclusion if there's crime, if there are people that just polute the air, why tolerate, sounds nazi huh, no I mean if its a crime capital, then fight it, laws not good - make new ones, jail doesn't work - send them to Afganistan! Human resources are high, if they were only "human".

I just don't like when they lie. You call liying - political correctness . This thing has more destructive power then the A-bomb. It will kill You some day.

300 guys form Iraq won't help much. Furthemore I won't have sent them. Cause it kills, you have done it overseas, but the **** is at home. It really is a test. One good thing about old England is that they kept hanging them high for 500 years and for the last century no cop needed a gun, yeah, right, until the "poor refugees" came.

I knew that rapes were comig, looting is nothing new based on LA riot. I just hoped that it won't happen.

PS In just less then 2 years Hollywood will make a fairytale movie on Katrina about a black gay cop saving a crippled (sorry incapacitated), mexican lesbian soon to be the first US women president, or vice-versa, from bad white tourists from Russia or Germany.

God speed the MREs, NG, Army, Navy, logistics, and radio links. Kill the bastrds, show them no mercy.
And SOMEONE HAS TO LEARN SOMETHING FINALLY!!!
no flame please...just ignore.. if you hate the post.

[Red]

Watching CNN now,the place is decending into utter chaos,fires and explosions going off,police stations under fire.......looks more like Sadr city than New Orleans

the Mayor is ranting at GWB now!!
I just heard parts of his rant.Dude is pissed.

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

Horrible news.
The mayors, governors are as usual. ( In such cases elected pot smokers can't be given any authority. They just killed democracy another time. For me i am for junta Pinochet style. It just works better
Just few days ago I was talking to my dad over Iraq and told him that there's a lot to lern from the way yankees love their country and despite loses, they stand as one for the army, no mater how fair or not fair the war is. They are loyal and law obidding. He just smiled and said that its just on the top. I still stick to my opinon despite the fact that your politicians hate us more then ever and just can't stop diging our grave. (

I would like to put another point here. Centuries ago people fled from Europe for new hope, most had nothing, and they knew that the new land just gives them a chance, no riches there already, they worked their hands to the bone to built the current only superpower. They raised childred, less kids year after year per family, and they continue to work hard.

In the last dozens of years people that again have nothing but perfectly know that they are going to a rich country that will take care of them. And sure they don't use condoms. No need to work cause no one will let you die from starvation. Don't tell me how hard its for them to get a better life. I ' ve been to states, no tv crap ok.

Which brings to another conclusion if there's crime, if there are people that just polute the air, why tolerate, sounds nazi huh, no I mean if its a crime capital, then fight it, laws not good - make new ones, jail doesn't work - send them to Afganistan! Human resources are high, if they were only "human".

I just don't like when they lie. You call liying - political correctness . This thing has more destructive power then the A-bomb. It will kill You some day.

300 guys form Iraq won't help much. Furthemore I won't have sent them. Cause it kills, you have done it overseas, but the **** is at home. It really is a test. One good thing about old England is that they kept hanging them high for 500 years and for the last century no cop needed a gun, yeah, right, until the "poor refugees" came.

I knew that rapes were comig, looting is nothing new based on LA riot. I just hoped that it won't happen.

PS In just less then 2 years Hollywood will make a fairytale movie on Katrina about a black gay cop saving a crippled (sorry incapacitated), mexican lesbian soon to be the first US women president, or vice-versa, from bad white tourists from Russia or Germany.

God speed the MREs, NG, Army, Navy, logistics, and radio links. Kill the bastrds, show them no mercy.
And SOMEONE HAS TO LEARN SOMETHING FINALLY!!!
no flame please...just ignore.. if you hate the post.

You're like the spawn of Big Baribal and Omega7.

[Bama_Operator]

I read the NG has now shoot to kill orders, true?

Yup...


These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets. They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.

'Shoot to kill', troops told (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/shoot-to-kill-national-guard-told/2005/09/02/1125302719627.html)


The fact that the troops have been authorized to use force is not a "Shoot to kill order", that's the media hyping up the fact that the troops have been authroized to use force.

After talking to my neighbors yesterday, they have pretty much been told to "put'em down". They have no jails, they can not arrest them, and they do not want them released to come back again. They are not running around like the "Wild West", but they will not be questioned about their decision.

[NewsMan]

Be careful when the Media writes about Snipers.... that only means somebody shot at someone from more than 10 meters away or wasnt seen.

Webster: Snipe - to Snipe - To shoot at the enemy from a concealed position. There's been snipers long before schools trained "snipers". Doesn't matter if your trained or not. Hillbilly Jim in a blind shooting at people is a sniper. Nit picky bastages.

[Macs.]

How many here have actually donated to the effort?cause there is way more bitching than solutions being bandied around.

I don't think that at this very moment the people down there need money donated, but actually people/military/FEMA who help them in first place.

You can send as much money as you want, but if there is no manpower there is no help for this.

Really scary that something like this is possible in a western country.

[moughoun]

the place remind's me of Liberia, .....Jesus :|

[MichaelF]

It's god damn racist/illegal to say the word "black" now? I was just being more specific, i've only ever seen black people doing the looting and touting guns on the news reports and images i have seen.

I'm not, by any means, a fan of the American "Black" subculture. However, the fact that a majority of the looters are Black is a side-effect of the fact that the disaster zone is a condensed urban area populated primarily with Blacks.
A similar total failure of infrastructure in a poor, White, urban area would result in similar events.

Also, New Orleans in particular, and Louisiana in general, is the -worst- place for this to occur. The social contract (i.e. law & order) wasnt that strong there to begin with.

[CarlosI]

Isn't it in the governers power to call up for help and troops before this thing hit? Im wondering now why they only really asking for it and blaming Bush.

[pathfinder82]

Well first off a good portion of the Louisiana National Guard was in Iraq, which kind of effects a states ability to operate in these conditions.

However I just heard that a bunch are coming home by chance and will be taken into New Orleans to help with the looting as soon as they hit the ground. So they will have some Iraq vets on the ground soon, with hot rifles. :|

[CG51]

Good, I hope they put down the criminal element there because all attempts to relieve NO is being targeted by lawless thugs.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

I wouldn't want to be the guy sitting in Iraq watching on TV my home being flooded, and then looted and my family shot at by thugs with AKs, and my home town being turned into Mogadishu.

I wouldn't want to be one of the looters trapped in the city when that guy finally does get home and starts looking for payback, either.


BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 1 (*******) - Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned rioters and looters in New Orleans on Thursday that National Guard troops are under her orders to "shoot and kill" to end the rampant violence in the city in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Announcing the arrival of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops in New Orleans fresh from service in Iraq, Blanco said, "these troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded."

"These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," she said.

U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, a Democrat, said as many as 100 people in his district southeast of New Orleans have died as a by-product of the violence that has gripped the city after Katrina slammed into the region on Monday, causing massive flooding.

Those who died, Melancon said, had been waiting at a warehouse pier along the Mississippi River in Chalmette, Louisiana, to be picked up for evacuation. They had received little food and no water since Monday or Tuesday.

"They were afraid they would have to go through New Orleans (to deliver the supplies)," Melancon said.

Melancon said some of those waiting for pickup died of dehydration in the 90-degree heat that has afflicted the region since Tuesday.

Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn.

Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city.

"It's my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it's not worth being shot at and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.

Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.

[XASA]

I wouldn't want to be the guy sitting in Iraq watching on TV my home being flooded, and then looted and my family shot at by thugs with AKs, and my home town being turned into Mogadishu.

I wouldn't want to be one of the looters trapped in the city when that guy finally does get home and starts looking for payback, either.


BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 1 (*******) - Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned rioters and looters in New Orleans on Thursday that National Guard troops are under her orders to "shoot and kill" to end the rampant violence in the city in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Announcing the arrival of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops in New Orleans fresh from service in Iraq, Blanco said, "these troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded."

"These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," she said.

U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, a Democrat, said as many as 100 people in his district southeast of New Orleans have died as a by-product of the violence that has gripped the city after Katrina slammed into the region on Monday, causing massive flooding.

Those who died, Melancon said, had been waiting at a warehouse pier along the Mississippi River in Chalmette, Louisiana, to be picked up for evacuation. They had received little food and no water since Monday or Tuesday.

"They were afraid they would have to go through New Orleans (to deliver the supplies)," Melancon said.

Melancon said some of those waiting for pickup died of dehydration in the 90-degree heat that has afflicted the region since Tuesday.

Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn.

Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city.

"It's my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it's not worth being shot at and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.

Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.

Yeah, just what we need right now-- turn what is left of New Orleans into Fallujah :cantbeli: If the Federal, State and local governments had responded to the hurricane's aftermath in a timely fashion, the thugs-- who are probably a small percentage of those stranded-- would have been dealt with before they got out of control. Pitiful emergency response help create the conditions we are now force to rectify with force.

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

poor black people...geez...

I CAN feel sorry for the elderly, I CAN feel sorry for the children, I CAN feel sorry for the sick or handicapped, but when a grown ass man makes the decision to stick around and ride out a Category 4 hurricane in a city shaped like a bowl that is sandwiched between a giant lake and the ocean, that is 15 feet under sea level, I HAVE TO SAY, that guy is a huge jackass. The levees were rated for something like a 15 foot storm surge, w/o even taking into consideration their age and wear and tear. The first PREDICTED storm surge estimate for the hurricane when it was a category 5 was something on the order of 28 feet, do the math folks...

I think some of the problem is that the people were not educated well enough in the past about the effects of this possible natural disaster. I remember watching a program on the Discovery Channel about 4 yrs ago or so that said a direct hit to NO by a hurricane would be ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING to the city and would likely cover the city in varying amounts of standing flood waters and that a good hit by a powerful hurricane would most likely breach the levees causing nature to take effect and level out the water by flooding the city.

Someone dropped the ball here folks, there are plenty of people to blame including but not limited to Nagin (and former mayors), Blanco, and any capable grown man that decided he was Johnny Hardass and that he would just "stick this one out".

just wanted to start a flame war...

[CG51]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/story.vert.warning.jpg

:lol:

[Argyll]

XASA I agree entirely mate,the Authorities knew it was coming,they surely must've also known that a significant proportion of the population didn't have the means to do so either,they also must've known the plight of the homeless would have been a major issue?

What attempt was made to evacuate the destitute and homeless prior to the Hurricane..............it sure looks like those people were simply forgotten about.....I hope I'm wrong

It's pretty plain to see ,even from an outsiders viewpoint that New Orleans wasn't fully prepared for the devastation incurred,4 days into it,it's a crying shame,so many lost lives,so many destroyed lives and livelyhoods.

How could this be allowed to happen,with so called Emergency plans in place.........it's a cockup,LEO's giving up,and walking off the job,how in the hell would they have coped if it had been an act of Terrorism?

[pathfinder82]

I wouldn't want to be the guy sitting in Iraq watching on TV my home being flooded, and then looted and my family shot at by thugs with AKs, and my home town being turned into Mogadishu.

I wouldn't want to be one of the looters trapped in the city when that guy finally does get home and starts looking for payback, either.


BATON ROUGE, La., Sept 1 (*******) - Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned rioters and looters in New Orleans on Thursday that National Guard troops are under her orders to "shoot and kill" to end the rampant violence in the city in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Announcing the arrival of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops in New Orleans fresh from service in Iraq, Blanco said, "these troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded."

"These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," she said.

U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, a Democrat, said as many as 100 people in his district southeast of New Orleans have died as a by-product of the violence that has gripped the city after Katrina slammed into the region on Monday, causing massive flooding.

Those who died, Melancon said, had been waiting at a warehouse pier along the Mississippi River in Chalmette, Louisiana, to be picked up for evacuation. They had received little food and no water since Monday or Tuesday.

"They were afraid they would have to go through New Orleans (to deliver the supplies)," Melancon said.

Melancon said some of those waiting for pickup died of dehydration in the 90-degree heat that has afflicted the region since Tuesday.

Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn.

Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city.

"It's my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it's not worth being shot at and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.

Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.

Yeah, just what we need right now-- turn what is left of New Orleans into Fallujah :cantbeli: If the Federal, State and local governments had responded to the hurricane's aftermath in a timely fashion, the thugs-- who are probably a small percentage of those stranded-- would have been dealt with before they got out of control. Pitiful emergency response help create the conditions we are now force to rectify with force.


wtf are they going to respond with? A large portion of the National Guard is somewhere else right now. Thats why you don't send you NG guys overseas.

[Jakkech]

The American Business: give'em guns and they shoot at you when your eye drops... Sad but true. :( Of course i mean only those ****** b****a** M*****f******.

[Seraphim]

wtf are they going to respond with? A large portion of the National Guard is somewhere else right now. Thats why you don't send you NG guys overseas.

Actually there are plenty of NG around the area.

[ronin2172]

XASA I agree entirely mate,the Authorities knew it was coming,they surely must've also known that a significant proportion of the population didn't have the means to do so either,they also must've known the plight of the homeless would have been a major issue?

What attempt was made to evacuate the destitute and homeless prior to the Hurricane..............it sure looks like those people were simply forgotten about.....I hope I'm wrong

It's pretty plain to see ,even from an outsiders viewpoint that New Orleans wasn't fully prepared for the devastation incurred,4 days into it,it's a crying shame,so many lost lives,so many destroyed lives and livelyhoods.

How could this be allowed to happen,with so called Emergency plans in place.........it's a cockup,LEO's giving up,and walking off the job,how in the hell would they have coped if it had been an act of Terrorism?
this was worse than any act of terrorism....unless the act was to destroy the levees

You have police stations underwater, if they arrest someone where do they keep them? How can police officers respond to incidents when they have little to no comms....how can they get to affected areas when their vehicles are underwater? Also you gotta watch out for the snakes, and crocodiles (yes the US has those too...not just gators) who undoubtedly are prowling the city in the flooded areas (i read they were concerned about that i dunno if it is true), eating pets, corpses....

Was new Orleans unprepared..yup ...they haven't been hit by a major storm in decades...just like Southern Florida was unprepared for huricane Andrew (and they are used to hurricanes there) in '92.

A bus or buliding or the Superdome getting blown up is a helluva lot easier to deal with than mother nature on her period. Most of the time you don't learn how to cope with certain things till it actually happens.... :(

[pathfinder82]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

[szr]

^^ About the waterborne wildlife that one has to watch out for down there, someone reported seeing a pair of sharks swimming through flooded streets of one of the towns down there.

It's flooding plus some.

[Seraphim]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

I was replying that there are plenty of NG still in country.

[ratsppalc]

President Bush should unleash some "Shock and Awe" on downtown NO.

[ronin2172]

another brilliant post.... :roll:

[Laworkerbee]

I was hoping FEMA would have been better prepared for this kind of action. God knows they have given the budget and the assetsto deal with scenarios like this since 9/11. If this had been a chemical attack on Boston would the response have been as ****ty? I really hope not.

[szr]

A 30 truck military convoy with food and water is fording the flooded streets of New Orleans. It's the first convoy that's been able to go through the still severely flooded streets and is now finally reaching the convention center.

Pictures live on CNN

[Seraphim]

A 30 truck military convoy with food and water is fording the flooded streets of New Orleans. It's the first convoy that's been able to go through the still severely flooded streets and is now finally reaching the convention center.

Pictures live on CNN

Thanks for the info, I just saw some of it now...I wonder who those guys are in the back of that truck.

[California Joe]

I find it odd that every politician involved is playing the blame game on some other politician. Every large municipality like this is supposed to have Emergency contingency plans that are supposed to kick in. Especially after 9/11. The Mayor should shut the hell up, it was on his watch in his city that this happened. They were not remotely prepared. The Governor is a retard blaming it on the Feds after her state was negligent in ther disater preparations. Now that it's too damned late they are all screaming. I just saw the Black Congressional caucus on TV acting like this is a racial issue. Making political bank on a disaster. I would venture to say that 99% of the crimes being committed have absolutely no racial motivation at all.

[mi35d]

X2 CJ.

The city was unprepared and even with the storm knocking on the door, it seemed as though they were burying their heads in the sands expected the storm to bypass them as they have in the past. They haven't had a direct hit in recent memory so it was most likely a "why bother?" sort of thing.

As for blaming the president - that's just pure BS. The levees were built decades ago and they knew what they were rated to handle. Saying that "Bush took money that COULD have been used to build better levees" borders on childish. Hmmm...NO could have rebuilt them five years ago - or ten or twenty, etc. They disregarded the danger and are now paying a huge price.

As for the Mayor and the rest of the politicians blaming the current administration for not acting fast enough - Where are the relief efforts supposed to start? If the entire area is underwater where to you set up relief camps? Where do you set up depots to handle supplies, equipment, etc.? "BRING IN THE NG!" Great. Now you have to feed, supply and support another 20 thousand people as well as the evacuees you're trying to help. And you STILL have no dry land to set any of this up. This situation is far different from other natural disasters because of the lack of terrain and it effects a far larger city than previous ones.

As far as the looters are concerned, someone else mentioned it: there has to be an element of "cover your own ass." In the North when there's a big blizzard coming, people go to the stores and...hey, get this: They BUY - PURCHASE - USE MONEY to get several DAYS worth of food and water. The looting began before the last raindrops were falling.

To our foreign posters who want to place the blame for the looting, etc. on our 2nd amendment - get a life. People are breaking into stores and stealing tv's unarmed. People are committing the majority of crimes without firearms.

[SuperShot5000]

what the FECK...i dont get it...what is happening...people have had it bad enough down there....now some inbred back waters **** is shooting at people...

Becarful of what your saying, these people who are do this aren't hicks, cajuns, rednecks etc.... they're blacks from within the city... they are drop outs, people who are'nt educated, who think the world owes them something, and who will point the finger at everyone except themselves... the state has done everything it could to get those people out, but they chose to stay, most aren't pissed about staying, just pissed about not being able to get Free food and Free water.. and now they want out.. but because of the gangs of black men running around robbing looting, and stealing weapons from gun shops, now they are working hard to protect what they have stolen... I saw a pic of a lady with about 10 pairs of shoes just stolen , around her neck.. look at what they do after the eat chips etc... at lot of them just throw the paper down on the ground, these are people without any since of helping others... on the other side of the story, there are many people who need real help, who are trapped, and have no way to help themselves... these people are getting picked up, and rescued... then there are those who are out there helping others... CNN doen't waist it's time reporting these people... I find it crazy when a CNN helo flys over a house to film the people with signs out saying help, and they don't even try to... The media, is out there making the story... they are out there getting the angle that fits their agenda... when they could be out there helping

As a native from central Louisiana (CENLA) if find it warming to hear what a lot of good people are doing to help others. On the other hand, I'm completely embarrased to see what the other half are doing...

Did you realize that those people from NO's worst housing projects obeyed evacuation orders? They followed every direction that they were told and are dying because of it at the Convention Center, where nothing is being done STILL.

And are you saying there isn't one educated black person in New Orleans? Haven't you seen the video of whites looting, too? The only reason you see so many blacks is because nearly 3/4ths of New Orleans population is black.

Get over yourself, asshat.

[SuperShot5000]

It's god damn racist/illegal to say the word "black" now? I was just being more specific, i've only ever seen black people doing the looting and touting guns on the news reports and images i have seen.

No ****, sherlock. New Orleans population is 3/4ths black. So stop playing the blame game on other races, ****head.

[Supe]

Some pics of the city on this site - here (http://www.nola-intel.org/pictures/index0009.html)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

[Will Clark]

^^ About the waterborne wildlife that one has to watch out for down there, someone reported seeing a pair of sharks swimming through flooded streets of one of the towns down there.

It's flooding plus some.

How is a salt water shark going to survive in fresh water + sewage and such?

[MichaelF]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

The Louisiana Guard (and elements from other States) were camped out around the Zone, sitting on their asses, because the Governor didnt want to send them in armed.

This has since been rectified.

[LazerLordz]

Singapore has sent three Chinooks to assist in relief efforts.

It's not much, but we will do what we can.

God bless you guys and keep you safe.

[David.Hasselhof]

look, in a previous post, I called the people who didn't leave STUPID. Well, that only covers part of this.

There are:
Elderly
Hospitalized
everything in between (mentally retarded, etc)

The point is that the mayor & gov should have mobilized the NG when there was a chance to PREVENT this disaster. I hear a LOT of crap about "blowing things up"

IF YOU ARE RESORTING TO VIOLENCE, YOU HAVE FAILED. Maybe not in all cases, but in this one, it's true. THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO ONE LEFT IN NOLA WHEN KATRINA HIT.

[Pirate_K]

Its really time to send in a lot more Guard troops so we can get these animals. No compassion for these animals who shoot innocent starving people. Doesn't surprise me really, since all the gang members were too poor to leave.

Agreed... but i have some IT buddies that stayed just to keep some network infrastructure up and running.. Kudos to them !! and i wish them well!!

[usa320]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

actually, 60% of the Louisiana national guard is stateside. The reason they havent been seen very much until now is the local and state government dropped the ball and waited until the **** already hit the fan to call them up.




And they tried to make food drops at the convention center, but they had to pull out when they started taking fire. Basically, they are regrouping and waiting to get some serious armor in there before they try to move on the Convention center.


followed every direction that they were told and are dying because of it at the Convention Center, where nothing is being done STILL.



Like i said above, if they wanted help, they should have thought twice before they fired on the convoys.

Everyone wants to get in and rescue these people, but they cant when they are getting shot at everytime they make a food drop.

[California Joe]

^^ About the waterborne wildlife that one has to watch out for down there, someone reported seeing a pair of sharks swimming through flooded streets of one of the towns down there.

It's flooding plus some.

How is a salt water shark going to survive in fresh water + sewage and such?

I believe that the water is at least brackish, and I'd assume a boatload of salt water washed in there WITH the sharks. Plus everyone knows sharks love dead bodies and poo.

[szr]

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO ONE LEFT IN NOLA WHEN KATRINA HIT.Impossible. Not realistic. Impractical.

There wasn't more than 48 hours (if that much at all) to attempt to forcibly evacuate a large metro area of well over a million people, once the forecast track and landfall strength of the storm were relatively certain.

[SuperShot5000]

Yeah, a lot of very poor people on welfare and a lot of hobo's didn't have the means to leave.

[California Joe]

And a lot of physically fit gang bangers and morally bankrupt individuals also it seems.....

[Pirate_K]

The American Business: give'em guns and they shoot at you when your eye drops... Sad but true. :( Of course i mean only those ****** b****a** M*****f******.

WTF are you talking about...??? does anybody else here know???
Stop being a jackass and ********F*********S**********B************D
get it ...

[SuperShot5000]

And a lot of physically fit gang bangers and morally bankrupt individuals also it seems.....

California Joe is a goddamn genious. woot

In literal terms, not sarcastically.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

Like i said above, if they wanted help, they should have thought twice before they fired on the convoys.

Everyone wants to get in and rescue these people, but they cant when they are getting shot at everytime they make a food drop.


I know this is kind of redundant, but was anyone seriously expecting this? I know I sure as hell wasn't. My first instinct under those circumstances would ave been to get as much water/food to the people, as fast as possible. It would NEVER have occured to me that I need to mount MGs on the trucks and have force protection, in my own damn country. I mean, this is AMERICA, not FYR or Africa right? I never saw any of the American troops/Marines helping out during the Tsunami go in with armour and helmets and rifles or door gunners, and those people are poor Muslims in a real warzone(Philipines, Aceh).*

* OK exaggeration for the sake of drama, but you know what I mean.

[szr]

^ * Indonesia

[CG51]

And a lot of physically fit gang bangers and morally bankrupt individuals also it seems.....

Yup.

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

^ * Indonesia

Heh, yeah, I know, but the fighitng was only in Aceh and not in the rest of the country, right?

I wasn't sure where the fighting was in the Philipines so I just said that...

[szr]

ah I see what you're saying.

[MichaelF]

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/9179/looter0vl.jpg

[hauptman]

Why not sending some SF troops in via Black Hawk with CAS support :P

[Beloved Shiv]

^^ About the waterborne wildlife that one has to watch out for down there, someone reported seeing a pair of sharks swimming through flooded streets of one of the towns down there.

It's flooding plus some.

How is a salt water shark going to survive in fresh water + sewage and such?

Getting OT here, but if you're truly dubious and interested, this would not be uncommon. We have a lot of bull shark activity down here in the Gulf and they're seemingly unimpressed with fresh water, frequently swimming up the Mississippi itself (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sharks/FS_bullshark.htm).

That being said, I'm sure there's an element of exaggeration in many of these reports. I could not personally attest to it this time - Katrina was still just a cat 1 when she swept past us, we were spared.

I should feel thankful, but it's difficult when you see the suffering of others.

[SuperShot5000]

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/9179/looter0vl.jpg

rofl rofl rofl

I hope that guy gets drawn and quartered.
What an asshat.

[dedgod]

"What they have not water? Then let them drink beeeeer......"

[Dalleer]

As I've been reading through the various news articles concerning the events in New Orleans today I'm quite amazed.

People are getting robbed , raped , and killed over there. Now whoever's doing that stuff needs to have a bullet put in their head. I sincerely hope that the national guard can get to work on their asses ASAP.

Seems like the flood didn't wash away all the dirt.

[CONSERVATIVE53]

woot woot

Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters "hoodlums" and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guard troops hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.

"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."

[Secret Squirrel]

As I've been reading through the various news articles concerning the events in New Orleans today I'm quite amazed.

People are getting robbed , raped , and killed over there. Now whoever's doing that stuff needs to have a bullet put in their head. I sincerely hope that the national guard can get to work on their asses ASAP.

Seems like the flood didn't wash away all the dirt.

That's an average day in the Big Easy.

[Dalleer]

But it's pretty low to start doing it in a time such as this. Maybe you'll call it "human nature" and I'll call it taking out the trash when those guys will receive bullets into their heads later (hopefully) .

People are supposed to be helping each other out over there. But it's quite clear that the criminals are still criminals even after the flood.

[SuperShot5000]

Thanks for keeping the thread flame-free (for the most part), fellas. It's a shock due to the touchiness of the subject.

[Xtoisè]

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/9179/looter0vl.jpg

rofl rofl rofl

I hope that guy gets drawn and quartered.
What an asshat.



http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/785246_20050902170027.jpg


Another intersting pic.

[SuperShot5000]

Fella at the Convention Center calling for help. I can't blame him. Both he and thousands are starving and dehydrating there.

That NG convoy better be going to the Convention Center...

[CONSERVATIVE53]

But it's pretty low to start doing it in a time such as this. Maybe you'll call it "human nature" and I'll call it taking out the trash when those guys will receive bullets into their heads later (hopefully) .

People are supposed to be helping each other out over there. But it's quite clear that the criminals are still criminals even after the flood.

X2. These idiots are just slowing down the process. Hopefully the Guard troops just back from Iraq will dispose of these scums.

[Red]

on of the buses evacuting folks has overturned.

[Aerosoul]

on of the buses evacuting folks has overturned.

:cantbeli:

[pathfinder82]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

actually, 60% of the Louisiana national guard is stateside. The reason they havent been seen very much until now is the local and state government dropped the ball and waited until the **** already hit the fan to call them up.

I said a good portion was overseas, nearly half is a good portion, I never said majority.

Why are the majority of NG in New Orleans guys from Mississippi who had to be trucked in?

[pathfinder82]

"Actually there are plenty of NG around the area."


I guess that's why people outside the convention center and superdome haven't seen them. They are using swat teams as QRF forces and the small amount of NG to secure the convention center and Superdome. They have already asked the major cities for law enforcement assistance, Chicago's SRT team left last night with some other plain clothed guys who were from the area.

I was replying that there are plenty of NG still in country.


States have a national guard for a reason. It doesn't really help if they are in other states and have to be trucked in.

Then you have a destabilization directly after the rains stop that spirals out of control because the proper force wasn't present.

Where have we seen that recently?

[Secret Squirrel]

But it's pretty low to start doing it in a time such as this. Maybe you'll call it "human nature" and I'll call it taking out the trash when those guys will receive bullets into their heads later (hopefully) .

People are supposed to be helping each other out over there. But it's quite clear that the criminals are still criminals even after the flood.

Criminals by nature as opportunistic. I'm sure many of the thugs that dwell in New Orleans were chomping at the bit for the winds to stop so they could start their ****. It's sickening but it should have been expected.

[WARPIG]

I know of 100 or so MPs and a BN worth of support and supply troops are going to be driving to the sight tomorrow morning. I couldn't get on the mission because I am on another mission right now. I will be working with some high schools to start a relief drive ASAP.
I am an MP and know some of the MP's going tomorrow. Looters' days are numbered.

[Midav]

Stay safe man!

[Clarsachier]

Quote ;

"Police Chief Eddie Compass admitted even his own officers had taken food and water from stores. Officers were walking off the job by the dozens."

It's one thing to call people seeking food and water looters, And it's an entirely different thing to be there.

[Ruledbyjames]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.

[Aerosoul]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.

Puh-leeze will everyone stop blaming Bush?

[K.Johnston]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.


hey u act like this is out fault...



but jeasus... it sounds like an iraqi weapons cache

[Jani.R]

http://www.frycookonvenus.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1068


Don't know if its been here before, but sick how cops loot with normal folks.

[Midav]

Pathetic sorry excuse for human beings.

Those cops need to be arrested. They are undeserving of those badges they wear. Trash.

[OMEGA7]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.

Puh-leeze will everyone stop blaming Bush?

Yes that's right , the Bush administration has can not make the true govern in his national because the refugees has confusing by the suck govern in bush administration has did likes that,

[foxtrot023]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.

Puh-leeze will everyone stop blaming Bush?

Yes that's right , the Bush administration has can not make the true govern in his national because the refugees has confusing by the suck govern in bush administration has did likes that,

yeah, you tell´em OMEGA7!

[Dalleer]

Well , at least aid is flowing in at a faster pace now than a few days ago , it seems.

[Red]

I just saw a video on CNN of the police station under siege.The **** is real out there.

[Mr.K]

Why are you calling them refugees?!

[K.Johnston]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.

Puh-leeze will everyone stop blaming Bush?

Yes that's right , the Bush administration has can not make the true govern in his national because the refugees has confusing by the suck govern in bush administration has did likes that,

yeah, you tell´em OMEGA7!

hes like the retarted kid at your sons birthday trying to walk straight after playing pin the tail on the donkey... (which coincidently i found out makes a great drinking game too)

[EasyC]

Omega mate, you know you should go to Orleans to cheer everyone up!!!

[Makaveli]

poor black people...geez...

I CAN feel sorry for the elderly, I CAN feel sorry for the children, I CAN feel sorry for the sick or handicapped, but when a grown ass man makes the decision to stick around and ride out a Category 4 hurricane in a city shaped like a bowl that is sandwiched between a giant lake and the ocean, that is 15 feet under sea level, I HAVE TO SAY, that guy is a huge jackass. The levees were rated for something like a 15 foot storm surge, w/o even taking into consideration their age and wear and tear. The first PREDICTED storm surge estimate for the hurricane when it was a category 5 was something on the order of 28 feet, do the math folks...

:cantbeli:

Most of the people that were left in New Orleans had absolutely no way of leaving the city before the hurricane hit. Not everyone owns a vehicle you know. And you call the victims jackasses. :roll: DAMN, show some understanding next time...

[)I(EHbKA.]

They should send soldiers in and shoot all the ****ing black looters, they are apes and this became apparent when they saw that law no longer exists, unlike the white population that behaved in a civiized way

[K.Johnston]

They should send soldiers in and shoot all the f*** black looters, they are apes and this became apparent when they saw that law no longer exists, unlike the white population that behaved in a civiized way



Thank you Trisha for setting your people back 1000 years

http://content.ytmnd.com//114000/114291/image.gif (http://davidbowiefg.ytmnd.com/)

u have no idea what your talking about.... so die

[EasyC]

halarious!!!

[Creeper]

I pray that this mees will end soon. Bush should be ashamed.
That is wholey inaccurate you f$%king turd.

[kahuna]

I don't post alot because I grew very tired of the idiots and bigots on this site. But, yet again I see a perfectly worthy topic used as a medium for people to spill their hatred, lunacy and bigotry.

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.

As for the looters those looting for food water diapers etc. I have no problem with as long as they are not doing it violently and are helping others as well. Now for those stealing tv's and the lot they need to have their teeth kicked in and the made to swim in the oil slick in Miss till they are tired and then watch the rescue boat motor away because this is what they are doing to others. Now for the stats on the number of white looters and black almost 75% of NO population is black so honestly what do you expect secondly news companies have a habit of spinning things for example I saw an AP photo captioned black looter rips off store or something to that nature but if you look he was carrying food water and diapers meanwhile in the same picture there were whites carrying tv's and other non essentials and that same caption said "residents" scavenging for food and supplies look as a black looter raidcs another store when in fact they were the raiders. Honestly some of you yell all the time about how news comapanies put spins on Iraq for political and social purposes why could that not apply here. Or better yet here is a better question is the have helos over the city why the hell aren't they rescueing ppl.

I have really enjoyed this site but it has become a haven for bigots and idiots who hide behind a love for the military and politics. Please keep your bigotry and hatred to yourself and lets focus on the situation at hand the tragedy that has befallen these ppl.

PS before anyone says well what are you doing to help my company has been sending donations to the red cross steadily as well as offering our logistical services to aid organizations.


God Bless the victims of this tragedy and may hell swallow up the morons making things increasingly unsafe down there

[Red]

I don't post alot because I grew very tired of the idiots and bigots on this site. But, yet again I see a perfectly worthy topic used as a medium for people to spill their hatred, lunacy and bigotry.

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.

As for the looters those looting for food water diapers etc. I have no problem with as long as they are not doing it violently and are helping others as well. Now for those stealing tv's and the lot they need to have their teeth kicked in and the made to swim in the oil slick in Miss till they are tired and then watch the rescue boat motor away because this is what they are doing to others. Now for the stats on the number of white looters and black almost 75% of NO population is black so honestly what do you expect secondly news companies have a habit of spinning things for example I saw an AP photo captioned black looter rips off store or something to that nature but if you look he was carrying food water and diapers meanwhile in the same picture there were whites carrying tv's and other non essentials and that same caption said "residents" scavenging for food and supplies look as a black looter raidcs another store when in fact they were the raiders. Honestly some of you yell all the time about how news comapanies put spins on Iraq for political and social purposes why could that not apply here. Or better yet here is a better question is the have helos over the city why the hell aren't they rescueing ppl.

I have really enjoyed this site but it has become a haven for bigots and idiots who hide behind a love for the military and politics. Please keep your bigotry and hatred to yourself and lets focus on the situation at hand the tragedy that has befallen these ppl.

PS before anyone says well what are you doing to help my company has been sending donations to the red cross steadily as well as offering our logistical services to aid organizations.


God Bless the victims of this tragedy and may hell swallow up the morons making things increasingly unsafe down there
Good post.

[usa320]

I don't post alot because I grew very tired of the idiots and bigots on this site. But, yet again I see a perfectly worthy topic used as a medium for people to spill their hatred, lunacy and bigotry.

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.

As for the looters those looting for food water diapers etc. I have no problem with as long as they are not doing it violently and are helping others as well. Now for those stealing tv's and the lot they need to have their teeth kicked in and the made to swim in the oil slick in Miss till they are tired and then watch the rescue boat motor away because this is what they are doing to others. Now for the stats on the number of white looters and black almost 75% of NO population is black so honestly what do you expect secondly news companies have a habit of spinning things for example I saw an AP photo captioned black looter rips off store or something to that nature but if you look he was carrying food water and diapers meanwhile in the same picture there were whites carrying tv's and other non essentials and that same caption said "residents" scavenging for food and supplies look as a black looter raidcs another store when in fact they were the raiders. Honestly some of you yell all the time about how news comapanies put spins on Iraq for political and social purposes why could that not apply here. Or better yet here is a better question is the have helos over the city why the hell aren't they rescueing ppl.

I have really enjoyed this site but it has become a haven for bigots and idiots who hide behind a love for the military and politics. Please keep your bigotry and hatred to yourself and lets focus on the situation at hand the tragedy that has befallen these ppl.

PS before anyone says well what are you doing to help my company has been sending donations to the red cross steadily as well as offering our logistical services to aid organizations.


God Bless the victims of this tragedy and may hell swallow up the morons making things increasingly unsafe down there
Good post.

x2.

[ronin2172]

finally an ounce of sanity on this topic...good job kahuna

[seruriermarshal]

I don't post alot because I grew very tired of the idiots and bigots on this site. But, yet again I see a perfectly worthy topic used as a medium for people to spill their hatred, lunacy and bigotry.

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.

As for the looters those looting for food water diapers etc. I have no problem with as long as they are not doing it violently and are helping others as well. Now for those stealing tv's and the lot they need to have their teeth kicked in and the made to swim in the oil slick in Miss till they are tired and then watch the rescue boat motor away because this is what they are doing to others. Now for the stats on the number of white looters and black almost 75% of NO population is black so honestly what do you expect secondly news companies have a habit of spinning things for example I saw an AP photo captioned black looter rips off store or something to that nature but if you look he was carrying food water and diapers meanwhile in the same picture there were whites carrying tv's and other non essentials and that same caption said "residents" scavenging for food and supplies look as a black looter raidcs another store when in fact they were the raiders. Honestly some of you yell all the time about how news comapanies put spins on Iraq for political and social purposes why could that not apply here. Or better yet here is a better question is the have helos over the city why the hell aren't they rescueing ppl.

I have really enjoyed this site but it has become a haven for bigots and idiots who hide behind a love for the military and politics. Please keep your bigotry and hatred to yourself and lets focus on the situation at hand the tragedy that has befallen these ppl.

PS before anyone says well what are you doing to help my company has been sending donations to the red cross steadily as well as offering our logistical services to aid organizations.


God Bless the victims of this tragedy and may hell swallow up the morons making things increasingly unsafe down there
Good post.

x2.

x3

[5jumpchump]

It's sure is a shame to see these guys shooting at cops but most likely they are gang members , the scum of any society , but they will get theirs in the end . I know the Cops looting from Wall Mart video is locked but I'd like to dump my comments here . I just saw a video on Consumption Junction where civilians were looting stores . There were to young black ladies strolling by in front of the camera . Guy asked them what they were taking . They said " clothes , food , diapers ...look " she held up the diapers and scooted the cart towards the door . Next they asked a much older Lady what she was taking . She said " I need clothes , i have nothing to wear and I've got the flu " . She then said she was allowed to take it . Guy asked by whom ? She said " the cops !" and turned her head looking back off camera kinda . Next video I see cops doing the same thing , strolling along filling a cart . I don't know what New Orleans looks like personally , haven't been there in it's state of condition . But even if the cops are going through and taking necessities and telling people " take what you need to survive ", I nor anybody else including myself shouldn't have much to say about it .Specially when they didn't receive any help for like 4 days . They needed that - stuff end of story . And unless you haven't eaten in 3 days say after swimming for 8 hours , clinging to trees freezing your ass off then stfu . The video showed one thing . Complete and utter devastation . They have no choice .

[Supe]

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.



This article raises some interesting points pointing that the Bush administration shares some culpability on the state of the levees.

Budget cuts delayed New Orleans flood control work

WASHINGTON (*******) - Bush administration funding cuts forced federal engineers to delay improvements on the levees, floodgates and pumping stations that failed to protect New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters, agency documents showed on Thursday.

The former head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the agency that handles the infrastructure of the nation's waterways, said the damage in New Orleans probably would have been much less extensive had flood-control efforts been fully funded over the years.

"Levees would have been higher, levees would have been bigger, there would have been other pumps put in," said Mike Parker, a former Mississippi congressman who headed the engineering agency from 2001 to 2002.

"I'm not saying it would have been totally alleviated but it would have been less than the damage that we have got now."

Eighty percent of New Orleans was under water after Katrina blew through with much of the flooding coming after two levees broke.

A May 2005 Corps memo said that funding levels for fiscal years 2005 and 2006 would not be enough to pay for new construction on the levees.

Agency officials said on Thursday in a conference call that delayed work was not related to the breakdown in the levee system and Parker told ******* the funding problems could not be blamed on the Bush administration alone.

Parker said a project dating to 1965 remains unfinished and that any recent projects would not have been in place by the time the hurricane struck even if they had been fully funded.

cont...source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/weather_katrina_funding_dc)

[rocket13]

I see it as both sides need to be blamed.

Bush and the federal gov., including fema should be blamed for under funding the construction of the walls that protect NO. For dont doing enough right away. It is fema for the love of god. This is their job. Thats what they get paid to do and they showed how much of a noob they are. Also after 9-11, all this talk about setting up plans for any terrorist situation. This was a natural disaster and look how this is going. Now they dont deserve all the blame.

NO major really dropped the ball and so did the gov. They should have been more prepared for what was going to happen.

There is no excuses for this but you will see it start flying. Each side was waiting for the other side (local / state vs federal) to do something and for 4 days there was chaos. Why because no one had the balls to step up and take charge till now. We are a superpower but we just look pathetic.


About the looters. Those who took food, water, clothing and things to survive. I don't call it looting I call it finding (be it black, white, or anyone) and should be applauded considering no one is helping them. Those walking off with TV's, breaking into homes and still things that have no immediate use, thats looting and they should be another victim of the flood in my book.

The choas is out of control right now. They should send in special forces at night for seek and destroy missions. If they spot a person walking around in the night with what it seems is a gun or causing trouble. They should shot to kill with out even warning them. A night or two of this would set the other people straight. These loser thugs need to be found and delt with. Its for their bull**** that relief efforts were delayed for a day or two.

[California Joe]

Good post Kahuna. When I said that things like this bring out the best and worst in people I could have been referring to the people on this board instead of the flood victims. Believe me, Hoods inbox for banning in the Mod Lounge is filling up fast with bigotted idiots.

[Herrmannek]

Sanity i a rare gift those days :)

[MichaelF]

The Levees scheduled to be overhauled (I.e. the ones built by the ACE) were the Mississippi River levees. Which did not fail. The levees which failed were not scheduled for overhaul.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of sticking it to the Man.

[kahuna]

and that is exactly my point the fact is that if you surrounded by water on both sides not to mention your beneath it then you should be doing everything possible to make sure your levees are as modern and strong as possible no one is sticking anything to the man if you take a job (I.E. Mayor, Governor, or Senator) then do the job to it's fullest don't half ass because in the end your not the one who suffers your people are

[Aerosoul]

The Levees scheduled to be overhauled (I.e. the ones built by the ACE) were the Mississippi River levees. Which did not fail. The levees which failed were not scheduled for overhaul.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of sticking it to the Man.

Well if that's the case you can clear this all up by providing a source for your information.

[5jumpchump]

The US gubment and FEMA are not to blame . All of this should be blamed on the Mayor and the Mayor only . First off it's the Mayors JOB to call out the national guard not the president's . Secondly the Mayor was the one who decided to spend $600,000,000 on a Football dome instead of fortifying the levees . The Mayor ordered people to leave , they didn't . There was one guy at the Convention center who said he didn't leave because he said all he had was a 5 person caravan but a family of 7 or 8 and that would mean people would have to sit on top of each others laps ! He said he was afraid of getting a ticket .......... a ticket :roll: I see footage of the convention center . A lot , a lot of people i see there are more then able to walk for 2 days to saftey with no problem . That's where a lot of the blame should be placed on the people of New Orleans themselves . Everyone who stayed created a bigger problem in the end .
The warning signs for this Hurricain were brough up about 40 years ago . 40 years for the Mayor to prepair , asscess the situation and he builds a football stadium . Good for him . Then he jumps on TV and blames everybody but himself - nice job . Nice composure , great way to lead your fellow citizens .

[Aerosoul]

press conference with Chertoff on CNN--- 82nd Airborne, 1st Marine Exp. Force and another unit are headed down there.

"7K active forces."

[pathfinder82]

The Levees scheduled to be overhauled (I.e. the ones built by the ACE) were the Mississippi River levees. Which did not fail. The levees which failed were not scheduled for overhaul.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of sticking it to the Man.

Well if that's the case you can clear this all up by providing a source for your information.


Michael F your full of it. I spoke with a civil engineer who was slated to work on the project . Hes the one who brought it to my attention that a few years ago they were going to retrofit those existing barriers. Along with the natural barrier called the wetlands. Which would do more to prevent hurricane storm surge than any man made barrier.

[Macs.]

Question:

Why don't they let people leave New Orleans ?

[I love Rachael Leigh Cook]

Why don't they let people leave New Orleans ?


Because they hate black people. :bash: :roll:

[Macs.]

Seriously...

[ronin2172]

The US gubment and FEMA are not to blame . All of this should be blamed on the Mayor and the Mayor only . First off it's the Mayors JOB to call out the national guard not the president's . Secondly the Mayor was the one who decided to spend $600,000,000 on a Football dome instead of fortifying the levees . The Mayor ordered people to leave , they didn't . There was one guy at the Convention center who said he didn't leave because he said all he had was a 5 person caravan but a family of 7 or 8 and that would mean people would have to sit on top of each others laps ! He said he was afraid of getting a ticket .......... a ticket :roll: I see footage of the convention center . A lot , a lot of people i see there are more then able to walk for 2 days to saftey with no problem . That's where a lot of the blame should be placed on the people of New Orleans themselves . Everyone who stayed created a bigger problem in the end .
The warning signs for this Hurricain were brough up about 40 years ago . 40 years for the Mayor to prepair , asscess the situation and he builds a football stadium . Good for him . Then he jumps on TV and blames everybody but himself - nice job . Nice composure , great way to lead your fellow citizens .
i can tell you have no grasp of anything....or the common sense to do research

what mayor can call out the national guard? Only governors can do that bright buns....

if i recall correctly the one of army corps of engineers responsibility is to maintin the waterways...including the levee system...yea that comes under the federal government...either way it's not up to the mayor to fund anything of that nature, any funding for that would be done on the state level. Pardon the mayor for trying to increase the revenue for his city...afterall that is his job.....

this mayor had 40 years to prepare? Damn he is the bestest mayor EVA 4o years in office! that'll make him what.....close to 100 years old?

then of course you might be playing...it's hard to tell on this site sometimes....*sigh*

[citizen-k]

I don't post alot because I grew very tired of the idiots and bigots on this site. But, yet again I see a perfectly worthy topic used as a medium for people to spill their hatred, lunacy and bigotry.

First off let's stop blaming Bush he is not responsible for every single thing that happens in America which is why states have their own governments and military capabilities(NG) The Governor and Mayor should have been on top of this that levy should have been upgraded and strengthened at every possiblity. But, it wasn't which is a local responsibility secondly when the storm started aid and troops should have been placed in a safe staging area so they could have moved in Immediately after the flood water had stopped pouring in again a state responsibility. In a city surrounded by water and below sea level facilities should have been built to handle this type of situation it's the responsible thing to do.

As for the looters those looting for food water diapers etc. I have no problem with as long as they are not doing it violently and are helping others as well. Now for those stealing tv's and the lot they need to have their teeth kicked in and the made to swim in the oil slick in Miss till they are tired and then watch the rescue boat motor away because this is what they are doing to others. Now for the stats on the number of white looters and black almost 75% of NO population is black so honestly what do you expect secondly news companies have a habit of spinning things for example I saw an AP photo captioned black looter rips off store or something to that nature but if you look he was carrying food water and diapers meanwhile in the same picture there were whites carrying tv's and other non essentials and that same caption said "residents" scavenging for food and supplies look as a black looter raidcs another store when in fact they were the raiders. Honestly some of you yell all the time about how news comapanies put spins on Iraq for political and social purposes why could that not apply here. Or better yet here is a better question is the have helos over the city why the hell aren't they rescueing ppl.

I have really enjoyed this site but it has become a haven for bigots and idiots who hide behind a love for the military and politics. Please keep your bigotry and hatred to yourself and lets focus on the situation at hand the tragedy that has befallen these ppl.

PS before anyone says well what are you doing to help my company has been sending donations to the red cross steadily as well as offering our logistical services to aid organizations.


God Bless the victims of this tragedy and may hell swallow up the morons making things increasingly unsafe down there
Good post.

x2.

x4.

[ViktorNavorski]

The Levees scheduled to be overhauled (I.e. the ones built by the ACE) were the Mississippi River levees. Which did not fail. The levees which failed were not scheduled for overhaul.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of sticking it to the Man.

Well if that's the case you can clear this all up by providing a source for your information.

Not the same thing MichaelF said, but sources nonetheless...

New Orleans Levees Not Built for Worst Case Events (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0902_050902_katrina_levees.html)


Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the Corps, dismissed suggestions that recent federal funding decreases or delayed contracts had any impact on levee performance in the face of Katrina's overwhelming force.

Instead he pointed to a danger that many public officials had warned about for years: The system was never designed to withstand a storm of Katrina's strength.

"It was fully recognized by officials that we had Category Three [hurricane] level of protection," Strock said. "As projections of Category Four and Five were made, [officials] began plans to evacuate the city.

[...] "We were just caught by a storm whose intensity exceeded the protection that we had in place."

Until the day before Katrina's arrival, New Orleans's 350 miles (560 kilometers) of levees were undergoing a feasibility study to examine the possibility of upgrading them to withstand a Category Four or Five storm.

Corps officials say the study, which began in 2000, will take several years to complete.

Upgrading the system would take as long as 20 to 25 years, according to Al Naomi, the Corps' senior project manager for the New Orleans District.

Intricate Flood Protection Long a Focus of Dispute (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01levee.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1125634216-vUW1sfEFwPQmSTQc8nzEbw)


Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded."

[MichaelF]

There are several sets of levees in/around NO. One of which, the Mississippi River levee, was built by the Army Corps of Engineers, to make the River navigable. It did not fail.

The others (some of which run through the city) were built and maintained by several entities, primarily NO City, Orleans Parish, and the State of Louisiana. Some of these failed quite badly. The ACE and the Federal government were not responsible for these.

[Seraphim]

This guy told me at work that there were stations all around NO that were bussing people out, 4days before the Kat came. Is this true? If it so...then I have no remorse for the people waiting out the storm.

[Argyll]

Does that include the homeless?..........they had no shelter before,so do you think that those refuge centres would've welcomed them with open arms and given them the same respect and treatment as those who had money?...........I don't think so.

Look at all those who were killed last year in the trailer parks when Charlie hit.......society shuns the druggies,alchies,and drop outs,it's a sad part of human nature........

Would you have given up florspace in your home for Hobo's and vagrants in times of need?

Don't judge everyone by your high moral standards mate

[BarkingSquirrel]

You don't need money to walk.

[Argyll]

walk to where?..........don't get me wrong,some stayed behind because leaving would mean the end of a lifetime for them,what prospects do the people of NO have now?.........no home,no jobs,no savings.....tough times ahead!

[Holstein]

Does that include the homeless?..........they had no shelter before,so do you think that those refuge centres would've welcomed them with open arms and given them the same respect and treatment as those who had money?...........I don't think so.

Look at all those who were killed last year in the trailer parks when Charlie hit.......society shuns the druggies,alchies,and drop outs,it's a sad part of human nature........

Would you have given up florspace in your home for Hobo's and vagrants in times of need?

Don't judge everyone by your high moral standards mate

X2

[Dominique]

This guy told me at work that there were stations all around NO that were bussing people out, 4days before the Kat came. Is this true? If it so...then I have no remorse for the people waiting out the storm.

What about the people that couldn't leave? Like the cops, sheriff's, EMS, fire fighters, government employees, Corrections Officers, National Guardsmen, military personnel, doctors, etc.

I had to ride out two separate hurricanes when I worked for the VA DOC. The inmates got moved (of course they couldn't be placed in "danger" :roll: ), but the tactical team guys, and a few supervisors, had to stay behind, sandbaging buildings, and standing by to respond to calls for help from the state police or other state facilities.

My car got flooded out during the second one, while it sat in the "safe" parking area they had set up for our vehicles. I ended up having to write it off because water had completely covered the hood. At one point during the storm, water was up to my waist line, and we were 27 miles inland!

I also rode out one in late 2003. I was recalled to good ole Ft. Belvoir, in Northern VA, because I was on the base QRF, while my house got the **** beat out of in the southern part of the state. I couldn't get in contact with my wife for three days because they had no gas, lights, or electricity. The only thing that worked was the water, and people were told not to drink that. I didn't make it back to my house for a five days, and then it took forever to get there becuase of all the damn trees in the road.

I lucked out and only had a few thousand dollars worth of damage to repair (and no insurance does not cover a lot of the initial out of pocket costs). Most of my neighbors had serious damage to their homes and some of it has still not been repaired.

I'm not making excuses for the turds who are trying to take advantage of the situation (thieves, looters, politicians, and all the other ****bags you see running their mouths on TV), or for the piss poor planning that went into the evacuation (and everyone from the Mayor to the feds f***ed up on this one. They've been telling people for years that NO was going to get hit hard one day, and now everyone acts like this is the first they've ever heard about it.), but it's not always as easy as people think. It takes LOT of time to move several hundred thousand people in an orderly fashion. You don't just snap your fingers and evacuate a major metropolitan area overnight. Unless you have several weeks of warning, someone is going to get left behind.

Instead of all these idiots on TV running around like chickens with their heads cut off, playing the blame game, their primary concern should be restoring law and order, getting help to those who need it the most, and planning on making sure something like this does not happen again.

[BarkingSquirrel]

walk to where?..........don't get me wrong,some stayed behind because leaving would mean the end of a lifetime for them,what prospects do the people of NO have now?.........no home,no jobs,no savings.....tough times ahead!Walk to where? Hullo? They're bums, like it really matters where they go.

[Seraphim]

What about the people that couldn't leave? Like the cops, sheriff's, EMS, fire fighters, government employees, Corrections Officers, National Guardsmen, military personnel, doctors, etc.



I wasnt including them...

[Argyll]

Are bums not human beings as well mate,or do you feel that they should all have died,that way it would solve the homeless issue there once and for all?

[Seraphim]

Does that include the homeless?..........they had no shelter before,so do you think that those refuge centres would've welcomed them with open arms and given them the same respect and treatment as those who had money?...........I don't think so.

Look at all those who were killed last year in the trailer parks when Charlie hit.......society shuns the druggies,alchies,and drop outs,it's a sad part of human nature........

Would you have given up florspace in your home for Hobo's and vagrants in times of need?

Don't judge everyone by your high moral standards mate

They are refugee centres...why wouldnt they accept the homeless?

To be honest...I wouldnt let them in my home. Im not going to BS anyone saying I would let them come in. If they had children I would let them in.
I live in a small city...Pop. 60k so my perspective might be a little different.

There is a pretty large ratio of homeless people in my city.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Perhaps I worded it wrong. What I meant was that it makes no difference to a bum if hes living on a street in florida, or a street in texas, or wherever - he's still leaving on a street. Would I let one in my home? Hell no. I wouldn't have even before a bum tried to kill me by kicking my jack out from under my car while working on a wheel because I told him he'd have to wait a minute if he wanted a few bucks from me, much less after.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the vast majority that stayed. Most who stayed had every oppurtunity to get out and CHOSE not to, so **** them. The only ones I feel for are the old, wounded, and the civil servants, I.E. the ONLY ones who couldn't leave.

New Orleans is dead, and it's going to stay dead. Rebuild this, rebuild that - bull****. The only things that will be rebuilt are the refineries, ports, etc. People evacuated will have to get jobs in other cities/states. Any rebuilding will take forever. Would you go back to a partially rebuilt ****hole that you almost died in after you've already staked out a new life and a new job elsewhere? Only if you're an idiot.

[Dominique]

What about the people that couldn't leave? Like the cops, sheriff's, EMS, fire fighters, government employees, Corrections Officers, National Guardsmen, military personnel, doctors, etc.



I wasnt including them...

Also, not all employers are known for the understanding. There are MANY companies out there that don't want to have shut down operations because of storms. I know of several in VA that threatened (including one car dealer I'll make sure to never get a dime of my money) to fire people that tried to leave early, or take time off to get out of town.

I imagine that the same siutation applied down in NO. That's a great choice to have to make, leave and get fired, or stay here and ride it out becuase my company is run by a**holes

[Argyll]

But your perspective is the same view shared by Thousand elsewhere,people don't give a rats ass about the down and outs.......human nature at it's best and worse......would it not be the Christian thing to do......?

As for the refugee centre's I don't know I wasn't there,but if they were at capacity,then where do you turn to?

I see racism is rife all around in these topics,and people don't even realise they're showing it.

[Seraphim]

But your perspective is the same view shared by Thousand elsewhere,people don't give a rats ass about the down and outs.......human nature at it's best and worse......would it not be the Christian thing to do......?

As for the refugee centre's I don't know I wasn't there,but if they were at capacity,then where do you turn to?

I see racism is rife all around in these topics,and people don't even realise they're showing it.

Im not a christian...

How are my posts racist?

[Argyll]

Paranoid?.....................did I mention you?..............I said I see racism is rife in these threads!! ;)

[Seraphim]

Paranoid?.....................did I mention you?..............I said I see racism is rife in these threads!! ;)

Im just wondering is all... :oops:

[stuntman]

I wouldn't have even before a bum tried to kill me by kicking my jack out from under my car while working on a wheel because I told him he'd have to wait a minute if he wanted a few bucks from me, much less after.

I'm sorry for the slight off topic but what the hell did you do to that guy? **** if some bum did that to me I would of seriously ****ed his ass up!

I remember I was in the subway with my mom (NYC) and I was about 20(7years ago) and this bum ask my mom for money and she gave him money and he said "thats it?" and got up in her face, I just remember getting up and tossing his ass out of the subway car and kicking him right in his ass as the doors shut, and people clapped. Interesting memory..

[ViktorNavorski]

State of Louisiana Emergency Operation Plan Supplement 1C (http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSheltersupplement.pdf)

Started reading through this, mostly on page 14, under the "Assumptions" part...


D. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. However, school and municipal buses and, where available, specialized vehicles will be used to transport those hurricane evacuees who do not have transportation.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg


E. The normal operation of public agencies and private businesses in the Host Area Parishes will continue during a hurricane evacuation. However, there will be a curtailment of activities as required:

F. A portion of the public will act in their own best interest and voluntarily
evacuate the High Risk Areas before a recommended evacuation order.

G. The need to evacuate could occur day or night, and there may be little control over the starting time due to the timing of the storm. Sheltering operations will be ready to start at any time on short notice.

H. The majority of hurricane evacuees are expected to stay with relatives and friends or in commercial accommodations, rather than seek public shelter.

I. Local facilities, pre-identified for use as last resort refuges, will be available when needed. These facilities are not intended to be shelters, but rather, facilities that are believed to be reasonably safe from the principle damaging effects of hurricanes without the amenities of a shelter.

I don't like quarterbacking as much as the next guy, but you would think, being Mayor of New Orlean and Governor of the state, that short piece right there, only 14 pages into the emergency planning guide would have allow those people to figure out way ahead of time what to do and what to avoid doing.