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View Full Version : U.S.-Led Assault in N. Iraq Town Meets Little Insurgent Resi



Jeremiah
09-04-2005, 07:25 PM
y Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, September 4, 2005; Page A20

TALL AFAR, Iraq, Sept. 3 -- After spending the night in abandoned homes, the more than 5,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops who had swept into the northern city of Tall Afar awoke Saturday morning to broadcasts from mosques calling residents to fight the invasion.

But the troops met little resistance as they continued raiding houses Saturday to gather information about the insurgents who have controlled large parts of the city for nearly a year.

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In one of the few pockets of fighting, insurgents fired seven rocket-propelled grenades at U.S. tanks from adjacent buildings in the western neighborhood of Qadisiyah. A U.S. jet destroyed much of the block with a 500-pound satellite-guided bomb, commanders said. Soldiers also destroyed at least half a dozen roadside bombs and discovered a large cache of artillery rounds hidden in one of the many lush valleys that divide the city.

For the second consecutive day, U.S. forces reported no casualties.

"We expected them to fight back more than they did today, especially given some of the neighborhoods we were moving through," said Capt. Alan Blackburn, 30, of Mooresville, Ind., commander of Eagle Troop, 2nd Squadron of the Army's 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, which is leading the assault.

Blackburn said the estimated 300 to 500 insurgents believed to be operating in Tall Afar appeared to be massing in the restive neighborhood of Sarai, east of downtown, where U.S. patrols are frequently attacked.

The operation in Tall Afar, considered a transit point and logistics hub for insurgents operating across northern Iraq, is the largest urban invasion in Iraq since the U.S. siege of Fallujah last November. U.S. troops led an offensive in Tall Afar, a city of more than 200,000 people about 40 miles from the Syrian border, one year ago this month, but largely withdrew soon after. Insurgents quickly returned to the city.

Soldiers from Blue Platoon, stationed in the northeastern neighborhood of Qadra, were awake hours before dawn, cleaning their weapons with steel-bristled brushes and WD-40.

"We'll be going into a considerably rougher area than we did yesterday, so we have to stay alert," Capt. Noah Hanners, the platoon commander, told his soldiers.

The soldiers raided dozens of homes, using sledgehammers and occasionally employing explosive charges to knock down doors. They confiscated AK-47 assault rifles and a set of rusted brass knuckles.

The soldiers also interviewed residents for information about insurgent activity, but a shortage of interpreters complicated their efforts. The platoon, divided into two sections, shared a lone interpreter throughout the day.

Abbas Amin Abbas, a Tall Afar physician, told the soldiers he had shifted his dermatology practice from a nearby hospital because of recent clashes between insurgents and the army.

"Why should I be between you and the bullets?" he asked the soldiers. "When we see you coming, we stay inside. We don't want to expose ourselves to the danger."

In other parts of the country, at least 17 Iraqi soldiers and four civilians were killed in insurgent attacks. Much of the violence was concentrated in the northern province of Diyala, where gunmen attacked two checkpoints manned by Iraqi police and soldiers. A total of 13 soldiers were killed, hospital officials said.

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Four Iraqi soldiers were killed in an ambush 60 miles south of the northern city of Kirkuk, police said.

Four civilians were killed in the northern city of Samarra when mortar rounds fired at a U.S. military installation hit a residential neighborhood, the Associated Press reported.

Near Kirkuk, armed men set fire to oil leaking from a major pipeline, according to Mahmood Abdullah, a member of the government's pipeline protection force. The pipeline, which carries crude oil from Kirkuk to the Turkish city of Ceyhan, eventually caught fire.

The ******* news service reported that a bomb, rather than arson, caused the pipeline fire and that the blaze shut down exports to Ceyhan on the Mediterranean.

The Kirkuk-Ceyhan pipeline is capable of exporting roughly 1.5 million barrels per day, although output has averaged around 200,000 barrels per day since the U.S.-led invasion began, because of attacks and sabotage.

Special correspondent Hassan Shammari in Baqubah contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301266.html?sub=AR

Argyll
09-05-2005, 03:25 AM
This will result in the same way as Ramadi.............large scale Ops,quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back........2 months later Large scale op,bad guys leave.......Armys stays........quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back!!

This is possibly the 3rd or 4th large scale offensive into Tal Afar since April Last year..... :(

seruriermarshal
09-05-2005, 03:31 AM
This will result in the same way as Ramadi.............large scale Ops,quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back........2 months later Large scale op,bad guys leave.......Armys stays........quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back!!

This is possibly the 3rd or 4th large scale offensive into Tal Afar since April Last year..... :(

Maybe we can hide some soldiers and snipers in Tal Afar when those terrorists back , we can attack them , and I think need more Air support .

Argyll
09-05-2005, 03:45 AM
They've been using everything in the inventory other than TACNUC's!!

The bad guys know when an Op is building,so they move to other towns

sp2c
09-05-2005, 03:57 AM
so you think there's not enough troops to secure all the towns huh?

Argyll
09-05-2005, 05:17 AM
In a nutshell no,but have you seen how hard it is to disguise the movements of 5000 troops.........as soon as the bad boys get a sniff of something coming off...........they head for another safe haven!!

seruriermarshal
09-05-2005, 05:44 AM
They've been using everything in the inventory other than TACNUC's!!

The bad guys know when an Op is building,so they move to other towns

I have a idea , some soldiers left the city , and some soldiers hide in the city , terrorists think we have left there , some of them will back , we can attack them .

Argyll
09-05-2005, 07:05 AM
And what happens if these soldiers get compromised?

Do you think the US public would be able to handle a situation reminicent of Super 64's fate in Somalia,in a war that's losing public support on a weekly basis?

seruriermarshal
09-05-2005, 07:12 AM
And what happens if these soldiers get compromised?

Do you think the US public would be able to handle a situation reminicent of Super 64's fate in Somalia,in a war that's losing public support on a weekly basis?


Ok first , 5000 coalition soldiers take the city , then We can hide 200 soldiers and snipers , some PJ can help they take airforce support , and 300 soldiers can take into UH-60s or CH-47s , if soldiers can't win where hide in city , then those UH-60s , CH-47s can support they on the ground .

Argyll
09-05-2005, 07:22 AM
It would be impossible to place so many troops in a covert position,even an ODA would need all sorts of backup before attempting such a mission,it's not as easy as it sounds.......and I doubt it would ever be risked,purely for tactical reasons....the publicity if it all went wrong(compromise) would be huge

remember the incident with the sniper teams,everyone wondered how they could be compromised,well they were and they were wiped out because of it,same thing happened to teams in Fallujah...compromised.

The only thing a covert team could do is survaillnace,nothing in the way of DA,the minute they engage the games up,and if the town is sympathetic towards the insurgency,then it would be a bloodbath,and is it worth scaraficing a SOF team for a handfull at most,of insurgents?

As for helo support,how long do you think a Helo would take to get there?
Would they be able to extract under fire,what would happen should the extraction helo's went down?

It would be an enormous task to get troops(,the more hidden,the larger the plan,the more assets required)to go covert in Tal Afar mate,and I don't think ,personaly speaking it's worth the risk

jasonglh
09-05-2005, 08:27 PM
And what happens if these soldiers get compromised?

Do you think the US public would be able to handle a situation reminicent of Super 64's fate in Somalia,in a war that's losing public support on a weekly basis?


Doesnt really matter its a much different situation. We were not at war in Somalia so people were quite shocked to find out SOF was doing combat ops. The picture was all rosy in the media with grateful Somali's getting food from troops until Oct 4th 93. I doubt seriously Bush is going to cut and run like Clinton did.

seruriermarshal
09-05-2005, 08:32 PM
It would be impossible to place so many troops in a covert position,even an ODA would need all sorts of backup before attempting such a mission,it's not as easy as it sounds.......and I doubt it would ever be risked,purely for tactical reasons....the publicity if it all went wrong(compromise) would be huge

remember the incident with the sniper teams,everyone wondered how they could be compromised,well they were and they were wiped out because of it,same thing happened to teams in Fallujah...compromised.

The only thing a covert team could do is survaillnace,nothing in the way of DA,the minute they engage the games up,and if the town is sympathetic towards the insurgency,then it would be a bloodbath,and is it worth scaraficing a SOF team for a handfull at most,of insurgents?

As for helo support,how long do you think a Helo would take to get there?
Would they be able to extract under fire,what would happen should the extraction helo's went down?

It would be an enormous task to get troops(,the more hidden,the larger the plan,the more assets required)to go covert in Tal Afar mate,and I don't think ,personaly speaking it's worth the risk

Thanks Argyll , and I think better air support can help soldiers , F/A-18 , A-10 , AC-130 or other 105mm , 155mm Guns can help soldiers who hide in city . Soldiers can't take those support in Somalia .

socom6
09-05-2005, 09:31 PM
This will result in the same way as Ramadi.............large scale Ops,quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back........2 months later Large scale op,bad guys leave.......Armys stays........quiet period,troops leave,bad guys come back!!

This is possibly the 3rd or 4th large scale offensive into Tal Afar since April Last year..... :(

As usual Argyll calls it correct. He should know he has been there. The Insurgents and foreign terrs know this, they are just biding their time.

NicNZ
09-05-2005, 09:35 PM
Ok first , 5000 coalition soldiers take the city , then We can hide 200 soldiers and snipers

What? Hide? How friendly do you think the locals really are? ;) The Somalian comparrison is a valid one.