Iraq contractors blamed for shootings

[Secret Squirrel]

Private security contractors in Iraq are being blamed for killing innocent Iraqis and inciting violence against U.S. troops, The Washington Post reports.

The deputy commander of the U.S. Army's third Infantry Division, Brig. Gen. Karl Horst, said the issue is rampant in Iraq, leaving innocents dead and, usually, the Army to blame.

Horst said there is no authority regulating the contractors actions so there's no way to punish any abuse of power.

He said he's kept an unofficial list of incidents this summer when allegations of shooting innocents people escalated.

Horst recorded 12 shootings between May and July that took the lives of six Iraqis and injured three.

On May 12 a contractor allegedly shot at a car, which then ran into a crowd.

A roadside bomb blew up U.S. soldiers two days later on the same block.

Ali Ismael is adamant that it was a security contractor who fired on him July 14 while he was in a car behind a convoy of four Chevrolet Suburbans.

The 20-year-old from Irbil, Iraq, said the bald patch and scar are proof of contractor vigilantes, a claim backed by witnesses of the incident.

A U.S. investigation exonerated security contractors.

link (http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050910-10523700-bc-iraq-shootings.xml)

[SuperShot5000]

Let's get Argyll in here and see about his opinion...

[boy1000]

Unfortunately he is right.

There are for the moment a rising numbers of incidents in Iraq, primarily. Unfortunately the rising demand of Operators will unfortunately give problems with the standard of the operators.

More to come, look at the date 5th Dec 04

[rafaelcb]

I don't want to start a controversy again, but several spanish journalists denounced that some BSC personnel fired on 'ninjas' (old iraqui women wearing black robes) during the Najaf uprising on the 4th of April 2004 :( .

It is in the best interest of those security firms to make sure all of their personnel behaves like most of them behave now.

[Jurpula]

There are always some people who have itchy triggerfingers, and when they work under pressure it's easy to "loose control" when there's lots of people around and you never know who's a possible insurgent.
Besides i think that the private contractors are being watched more closely than the coalition forces now that things are more "calm"

Just a thought...

[BadKarma26]

interesting

[boy1000]

There are always some people who have itchy triggerfingers, and when they work under pressure it's easy to "loose control" when there's lots of people around and you never know who's a possible insurgent.
Besides i think that the private contractors are being watched more closely than the coalition forces now that things are more "calm"

Just a thought...

Not to insult you, but you are a bit off target. Unfortunately if you look at the newest employment at the top of BW, I am quite confident that under the current admin. nothing will be done. To much at stake

My interest is that if you are working at a American sector the Americans can hold you responsible for the actions you as a operator and PMC PSC.

Something has also to be done regarding vetting the personal. Look at the Skylink - BW incident.

[sickofpretenders]

What about it?

[storminnorminoftheshoulda]

Something has also to be done regarding vetting the personal. Look at the Skylink - BW incident.

Dont stop there just look at BW all together!!!

[dacanadianbomb]

So what vetting wasnt done that caused the Skylink incident?
How do you build the connection between the two ?

Say, arent you the gentlemen who owns small european PMC yourself ?

Actually , if you dont mind me asking,whats your companies name ?

Im sure someone here or elsewhere will know someone, who will know someone who maybe has heard of you and your crew.

[colonel]

Aw shame. So you drove to close to a convoy, acted suspiciously, didnt stop at a control point, concealed a weapon in your robe after a shooting etc in a war zone and then got shot.

Isn't life tough when you are stupid.

[boy1000]

So what vetting wasnt done that caused the Skylink incident?
How do you build the connection between the two ?

Say, arent you the gentlemen who owns small european PMC yourself ?

Actually , if you dont mind me asking,whats your companies name ?

Im sure someone here or elsewhere will know someone, who will know someone who maybe has heard of you and your crew.

During the incident of the chopper that was shut down, one of the killed was an American. This persons military background was National Guard. Nothing wrong being National Guard, but not in an area like Iraq, and as a Contractor.

Yes I am the Gentlemen who is part-owner of an European PMC. We do extremely much to vet our personnel through the “family”. We only have SpecOps operators with Minimum 10 years SpecOps experience. That is what our clients want and pay only 60 to 70% of the rates of BW.

Please see me as mysterious or something like that. The strength of this forum is that I can discuss things anonymously. I prefer it that way.

[Argyll]

Some of you need to remember that there are a lot of Iraqi PSD teams operating out there now!

I've posted here before that there are between 300-600 Iraqi's killed a month by Security Forces including PSC's...I stand by that claim,an argument being put forward by the Iraqi Interior Ministry is that there are more Iraqi's killed since the downfall of Saddam ,than during his reign!

Unless those who wish to contradict this claim can come up with accurate and credible reports,then please don't say it's BS.

There are a lot of cowboy's out there,all the good operators have BTDT,made their targets and are sitting back,standards are slipping,but there are things in the pipelines to get rid of those who are not meeting the required standards.

It's not a case of guys wanting some trigger time,last thing I want to do over here is have to start putting rounds back down range,because that means somethings went wrong!!!

[sickofpretenders]

So what if the guy was national guard? He may have been SWAT as well, or going to do fixed site security. I still dont see how the hell the fact there was an ex NG guy in the helo got it shot down or affected the outcome of the incident in any way.

[Lupin]

"Ali Ismael is adamant that it was a security contractor who fired on him July 14 while he was in a car behind a convoy of four Chevrolet Suburbans."




yeah yeah yeah,, whatever,,, same old sh*t statement,,, iraqis always blame the occupation forces or other countries that helps US....

:bash:

[storminnorminoftheshoulda]

I have heard of a Hungarian company over here that only hires ex european SF.


There are a lot of cowboy's out there,all the good operators have BTDT,made their targets and are sitting back,standards are slipping,but there are things in the pipelines to get rid of those who are not meeting the required standards.

Especially on the british side things. They are bringing in a licience and if you want to work on a brit government contract you will eventually need this.

[boy1000]

So what if the guy was national guard? He may have been SWAT as well, or going to do fixed site security. I still dont see how the hell the fact there was an ex NG guy in the helo got it shot down or affected the outcome of the incedent in any way.


Yes I am the Gentlemen who is part-owner of an European PMC. We do extremely much to vet our personnel through the “family”. We only have SpecOps operators with Minimum 10 years SpecOps experience. That is what our clients want and pay only 60 to 70% of the rates of BW.

Bull****. Are you including the Paras and Royal Marines as 'SpecOps'? I bet you are.

I have never seen nor heard of any european company that actually has the operators they claim on thier website. PM me your company name and I will stand corrected but in the meantime I am calling you a liar.


“ - Bull****. Are you including the Paras and Royal Marines as 'SpecOps'? I bet you are.”

No we do not. I will of operational security not start discussing the setup.

PM me with your background Sir.

[ibstolidude]

This persons military background was National Guard. Nothing wrong being National Guard, but not in an area like Iraq, and as a Contractor.


With all due respect, this reads like a bunch of crap. Perhaps something is lost in the translation? As a PMC owner/operator, you must certainly be aware that there are a large number of former AD persons in the NG to include current and former SF, former tier one assets, various SOF and conventional formers to include pilots (both SOF and non-SOF - who fly on a daily basis w/such jobs as utlility or rescue). Many of those types listed have vast experiences in the military, in PSD, in SRT/SWAT, and various other applicable roles. Which is why you find that some have worked as IC's in hostile regions only to return to their units in the NG/RC upon their return to the states.

[boy1000]

This persons military background was National Guard. Nothing wrong being National Guard, but not in an area like Iraq, and as a Contractor.


With all due respect, this reads like a bunch of crap. Perhaps something is lost in the translation? As a PMC owner/operator, you must certainly be aware that there are a large number of former AD persons in the NG to include current and former SF, former tier one assets, various SOF and conventional formers to include pilots (both SOF and non-SOF - who fly on a daily basis w/such jobs as utlility or rescue). Many of those types listed have vast experiences in the military, in PSD, in SRT/SWAT, and various other applicable roles. Which is why you find that some have worked as IC's in hostile regions only to return to their units in the NG/RC upon their return to the states.

Let us all do the best to avoid a flame this can be very interesting discussion.

I have to say o everybody especially the English speaking audience on this forum. English is my second language, I do my up most to avoid misunderstandings but mishaps can occur.

It is my believe the success of a PMC (PSC) is the network a company owner had before he or they started out. Not to offend anybody discussing this matter, but many of the jobs should only be performed by ex SpecOps, simply because of the implications to it.

What should be achieved in especially in Iraq, should be that there is a minimum requirement for some of the work performed by the personnel. Please understand we perform socio economical work in many ways

[sickofpretenders]

Firstly, i stand corrected on my earlier post. It appears boy1000's company while small has good operators as he attests.

For hiring purposes it is easier to pick ex spec ops, but the reality is just being spec ops does not make you a great PSD, just like being an NG pogo does not preclude you from being one.

There are simply not enough former operators from spec ops to fill every position and succesful companies are forced to choose between not bidding on further contracts or taking less well trained guys and training them themselves.

[boy1000]

Firstly, i stand corrected on my earlier post. It appears boy1000's company while small has good operators as he attests.

For hiring purposes it is easier to pick ex spec ops, but the reality is just being spec ops does not make you a great PSD, just like being an NG pogo does not preclude you from being one.

There are simply not enough former operators from spec ops to fill every position and succesful companies are forced to choose between not bidding on further contracts or taking less well trained guys and training them themselves.

firstly I stand corrected before "sickofpretenders", sorry for the written.

But you have a very good point and must admit this is my point. We have CV from persons from a limited amount of work. We have said even before we started, we would stop taking work at our limit.

What we have done is that we know the operators from before, I know some operators from very wellrespected places who should never had a gun. Therefore it is not a recommendation to be ex SEAL, or 22nd SAS in it self. It is the way you operate.