Need a Jewish perspective

[SeanAshi]

I'm having a arugment on another forum, here is the quote

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansing
How should I reply to that?

[Javehn]

Can you tell , please ,what forum that is ? And the thread ?

[Haiw]

So you and your Merkava can go and spoil the party? :lol:

[UkrainianAmerican]

I'm having a arugment on another forum, here is the quote

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansing
How should I reply to that?
I guess then, half the Cristian bible is nothing but a violent program of ethnic cleansing.
Just curious, what religion do those ppl have?

[fred_engles]

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansingI'm sure the person who said that was an anti-semitic idiot.

But, they aren't entirely wrong on fact, in that there certainly are instances of entire tribal groups (the amalekites) and cities (Sodom & Gemorrah) being wiped out (not to mention the killing of every egyptian first-born as the last of the ten plagues). It definitely isn't anything like the entire hebrew bible, or even a central part of it, though.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansingI'm sure the person who said that was an anti-semitic idiot.

But, they aren't entirely wrong on fact, in that there certainly are instances of entire tribal groups (the amalekites) and cities (Sodom & Gemorrah) being wiped out (not to mention the killing of every egyptian first-born as the last of the ten plagues). It definitely isn't anything like the entire hebrew bible, or even a central part of it, though.
True, but Old Testament is part of Cristian Bible, and I somehow doubt that Koran is more pacifist, since Prophet Mohammed was afterall a military leader (no offense intended)

[One?]

The Torah does have some violence in it. All religions have violence. Nothing wrong with a bit of violence here and there .

now go love eachother.

[StarvingStudent47]

1) Find me a Jew who interprets the Torah as a literal command, not as a document inspired by God but influenced by the much-more-violent and less-enlightened time it was written in. I won't hold my breath. Generally speaking, Judiasm places much less emphasis on "following the literal text of the Holy Scriptures word-for-word" than many sects of Christianity and Islam do.

2) "Thou shalt not kill." It's right there in the Ten Commandments given to Moses.

3) I don't see how God creating the earth counts as "ethnic cleansing." I don't see how Noah and the Flood constitutes "ethnic cleansing." I don't see how Abraham's covenant with God constitutes "ethnic cleansing." I don't see how fleeing the tyranny of the Phaoroh, crossing the Sea of Reeds, and wandering around a desert for 40 years constitutes ethnic cleansing. And THAT is what the majority of the Torah deals with.

4) Yeah, there were some wars. In these wars, people did not follow modern rules of engagement. Have I mentioned this document is NEARLY THREE MILLENIA OLD? I don't think the Geneva Convention had been penned yet.

5) If you look beyond the Torah to all of the Tanakh, you see what I consider the main message of God. Especially in Pslams and Proverbs, my two favorite books. And you're not going to find anything remotely like "ethnic cleansing" in Psalms and Proverbs.

[StarvingStudent47]

But, they aren't entirely wrong on fact, in that there certainly are instances of entire tribal groups (the amalekites) and cities (Sodom & Gemorrah) being wiped out (not to mention the killing of every egyptian first-born as the last of the ten plagues). It definitely isn't anything like the entire hebrew bible, or even a central part of it, though.

And let's remember that Sodom and Gomorah, and the Ten Plagues, were acts of GOD not acts of THE HEBREW TRIBES. Big freakin' difference.

If we blame Jews for killing that God does, then Jews are responsible for the death of every single person on the planet!!! After all, we all die, and if you're religious, then you believe God has something to do with every death. Oh my gosh, Jews are "ethnically cleansing" every mortal species on the planet!!!

EDIT--the sarcasm and frustration is aimed at the original author of this comment, not Fred. Just to clarify.

[Fox2]

2) "Thou shalt not kill." It's right there in the Ten Commandments given to Moses.


Great post, SS47.

Just a little clarification. It actually says "Thou shalt not murder." when translated from the original Hebrew text. :D

Acts of defense or just wars were not considered murder at that time.

[fred_engles]

And let's remember that Sodom and Gomorah, and the Ten Plagues, were acts of GOD not acts of THE HEBREW TRIBES. Big freakin' difference.True - but not for the Amalekites [1 (http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=RsvDeut.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=25&division=div1),2 (http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=RsvExod.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=17&division=div1)]


Find me a Jew who interprets the Torah as a literal command, not as a document inspired by God but influenced by the much-more-violent and less-enlightened time it was written in. I won't hold my breath.Don't spend a lot of time among the Orthodox/Hasidic communities, do you? =)

[StarvingStudent47]

And let's remember that Sodom and Gomorah, and the Ten Plagues, were acts of GOD not acts of THE HEBREW TRIBES. Big freakin' difference.True - but not for the Amalekites [1 (http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=RsvDeut.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=25&division=div1),2 (http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/perl/toccer-new?id=RsvExod.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=17&division=div1)]

Well then look to Point 4 (three thousand year old text; modern rules of engagement hadn't been invented yet) and Point 3 (not the main point of the text).



Find me a Jew who interprets the Torah as a literal command, not as a document inspired by God but influenced by the much-more-violent and less-enlightened time it was written in. I won't hold my breath.Don't spend a lot of time among the Orthodox/Hasidic communities, do you? =)
That's like basing a statement about "Christian belief" off of what Amish folk do. Hey, did you know that Christians believe that driving cars is sinful?

[anonymous individual]

Errr... I am in church right now? At least in feels like it in here. :lol:

[Haiw]

Damn those benches hurt. Hey you freaky dress guy, pass over the wine!

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

This is a topic that I have spent alot of time with in my personal "search for Truth". Here is some of what I have come to believe based on my study of scripture, both old and new testaments.

Long before Joshua lead the children of Israel across the Jordon and conquored the land of canaan, we know that Abraham lived there. On one occasion, Abraham paid tithes to a King named Melchizadec. This king ruled in Caanan and was also a priest to God. So we can know that God had reached out to the people who lived in that part of the world. By the time Moses lead the Hebrews out of Eygpt there was only Baal and other pagan worship in the land of Caanan. This makes it clear that the peoples there had rejected God and had turned to false gods. If you couple that information with the fact that scripture tells us that it is Gods desire that "none should perish", then we can know that God had given those people the opportunity to accept Him.

That line of thought (God being an evil butcher) if part of the oldest trick in the decievers arsenal. If he can get a person to begin to doubt Gods character, then he can begin to plant lies and lead them astray...it worked on Adam and Eve.

The whole bible can be summed up as a "story" of two weddings. I say story in the sense that I am looking at the "big" picture not because I think that scripture is an allegory. Genesis 3:15 gives the first prophesy of the suffering Messiah. This seed was how Abraham would be a father of many nations. But before God could have a "son" he had to have a "wife" so as not to commit adultery. Therefore he married the nation of israel at Mt. Sinai...

There are alot of other things about the whole of the Old Testament that I would love to discuss with the Hebrew members of this forum, or anyone else here for that matter, if anyone is interested...

Jesus blessings!
chris holloman HOH

[SeanAshi]

Here is the Nazi's view of the State of the Union Speech by President Bush
Its a hate website but here it is.


Did anyone catch the puppet's state of the union speech last night? Or did anyone give a ****? I didn't, but I figured I would tune in anyway to catch up on the latest rhetoric! Basically the puppet of the united synagogues of america merely repeated everything he had been griping about for the last several months. In otherwords: just confirming all of the bull****!

Here's my critique of just some of the things the ****head said:

Quote:
As we gather tonight, hundreds of thousands of American servicemen and women are deployed across the world in the war on terror. By bringing hope to the oppressed, and delivering justice to the violent, they are making America more secure. (Applause.)

Sorry to burst your bubble bush, but the reason those White men and women are over there crawling around on their bellies is because they have to. Its because this jew-controlled government decided to use them for cannon fodder in destroying the jews' enemies. But of course, both you and I already know that.

Quote:
Each day, law enforcement personnel and intelligence officers are tracking terrorist threats; analysts are examining airline passenger lists; the men and women of our new Homeland Security Department are patrolling our coasts and borders. And their vigilance is protecting America. (Applause.)

Wrong again bush. The only thing the homeboy security department is analysing are the private files of millions of innocent whites while they let the criminal immigrants infiltrate our country and roam around at will. And I certainly dont see how they are "patrolling our coasts and borders" when hundreds of illegal spicks with criminal intent hop across it everyday, and people like Billy Roper just get ignored when they have valid proof of illegal aliens residing in our country.

Quote:
Americans are proving once again to be the hardest working people in the world. The American economy is growing stronger. The tax relief you passed is working. (Applause.)

And the crowd goes wild for more bull****! Seems like the economy is pretty bad to me when we have dozens to hundreds of the "hardest working people in the world" being layed off from their jobs. The economy is going so good people are being given long vacations just for the hell of it, right?

Quote:
We have faced serious challenges together, and now we face a choice: We can go forward with confidence and resolve, or we can turn back to the dangerous illusion that terrorists are not plotting and outlaw regimes are no threat to us. We can press on with economic growth, and reforms in education and Medicare, or we can turn back to old policies and old divisions.

Turn back! Turn Back!!

Quote:
Our greatest responsibility is the active defense of the American people. Twenty-eight months have passed since September 11th, 2001 -- over two years without an attack on American soil. And it is tempting to believe that the danger is behind us. That hope is understandable, comforting -- and false. The killing has continued in Bali, Jakarta, Casablanca, Riyadh, Mombasa, Jerusalem, Istanbul, and Baghdad. The terrorists continue to plot against America and the civilized world. And by our will and courage, this danger will be defeated. (Applause.)

Dont forget the millions of criminal and lazy spicks you're about to grant citizenship to. If you really want to protect us, close down the borders--particularly the southern one--and quit letting the immigrants come in and recieve free bomb training. Its cute how you mentioned jerusaleum so prominently in your speech. I hope you are referring to the jewish terrorists and not the palestinians; probably not. Well, at least you know who your master is.

Quote:
Inside the United States, where the war began, we must continue to give our homeland security and law enforcement personnel every tool they need to defend us. And one of those essential tools is the Patriot Act, which allows federal law enforcement to better share information, to track terrorists, to disrupt their cells, and to seize their assets. For years, we have used similar provisions to catch embezzlers and drug traffickers. If these methods are good for hunting criminals, they are even more important for hunting terrorists. (Applause.)

Interpretation: "Inside the United States, in the homes of innocent whites, we must continue to give our homeland security and law enforcement personnel every tool they need to destroy the evil whites. And one of those essential tools is the Punishment Act, which allows federal law enforcement to enter white person's homes without them knowing about it, and generally just do anything they please that defies the constitution of the united states, to track evil white racists, to disrupt their evil white doings, and to seize their firearms and personal belongings. For years, we have used un-similar provisions to not catch jewish embezzlers and completely ignore drug traffickers. If these methods are good for hunting evil whites, they are even more important for hunting more evil whites. (Applause.)

Quote:
Key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year. (Applause.)

Oh oh!

Quote:
The terrorist threat will not expire on that schedule. (Applause.)

Oh Oh!

Quote:
Our law enforcement needs this vital legislation to protect our citizens. You need to renew the Patriot Act. (Applause.)

Oh, the agony of it all! Why must so many whites be free from the federal government ?

Quote:
The first to see our determination were the Taliban, who made Afghanistan the primary training base of al Qaeda killers. As of this month, that country has a new constitution, guaranteeing free elections and full participation by women. Businesses are opening, health care centers are being established, and the boys and girls of Afghanistan are back in school. With the help from the new Afghan army, our coalition is leading aggressive raids against the surviving members of the Taliban and al Qaeda. The men and women of Afghanistan are building a nation that is free and proud and fighting terror -- and America is honored to be their friend. (Applause.)

This report just in: As it turns out Afghanistan is still just a ****hole that harbors pro-zog terrorists, still treats women like ****, and is now the number one opium-producing country in the world. Hooray for jewish-democracy!!!

Quote:
Sir, America stands with you and the Iraqi people as you build a free and peaceful nation. (Applause.)

Interpretation: Sir, Israel...uh..I mean America stands with you and the Iraqi slaves...I mean people..just as long as you continue to lick jew asshole!

Quote:
Nine months of intense negotiations involving the United States and Great Britain succeeded with Libya, while 12 years of diplomacy with Iraq did not. And one reason is clear: For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America. (Applause.)

Correction: That was 7 years of negotiating with Iraq to help destroy zog's enemies, then it was several more years of off-and-off fighting Iraq because it was now zog's enemy, and throw in a few more years of thumbs-up-our-asses belittling Iraq with petty tales of human torture.

Quote:
Different threats require different strategies. Along with nations in the region, we're insisting that North Korea eliminate its nuclear program. America and the international community are demanding that Iran meet its commitments and not develop nuclear weapons. America is committed to keeping the world's most dangerous weapons out of the hands of the most dangerous regimes. (Applause.)

Shame shame on these foreign regimes who would have the audacity to challenge the forces of zog with their own arsenal of weapons of mass-destruction. Only zog may have such weapons, because, after all, zog is the chosen!

Quote:
Many of our troops are listening tonight. And I want you and your families to know: America is proud of you. And my administration, and this Congress, will give you the resources you need to fight and win the war on terror. (Applause.)

Interpretation: Thank you for dying for Israel. And just to let you know, we're doing everything in our power to make sure you stay in your genocidal trenches for a few more years. On top of that, we'll be gracious enough to send over to you some buddies when we re-instate the draft.

Quote:
Some in this chamber, and in our country, did not support the liberation of Iraq.

Haha, you so funny bush when say "liberation"

Quote:
Objections to war often come from principled motives. But let us be candid about the consequences of leaving Saddam Hussein in power. We're seeking all the facts. Already, the Kay Report identified dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations. Had we failed to act, the dictatator's weapons of mass destruction programs would continue to this day. Had we failed to act, Security Council resolutions on Iraq would have been revealed as empty threats, weakening the United Nations and encouraging defiance by dictators around the world. Iraq's torture chambers would still be filled with victims, terrified and innocent.

Here we go again with the weapons of mass-destruction. Havent you heard the latest news yet bush? There are no weapons of mass-destruction in iraq, and there probably never were any. Billions of dollars in high-tech equipment and man power even say there's no weapons of mass-destruction in iraq, so quit pretending that they exist.

Quote:
The killing fields of Iraq -- where hundreds of thousands of men and women and children vanished into the sands -- would still be known only to the killers. For all who love freedom and peace, the world without Saddam Hussein's regime is a better and safer place. (Applause.)

Correct me if I'm wrong bush, since you know more than i do but I always had the strange notion that more innocent women and children died as a result of the no-fly zones put in place by zog rather than by the actions of saddam hussein.

Quote:
Tonight, I also ask you to reform our immigration laws so they reflect our values and benefit our economy. I propose a new temporary worker program to match willing foreign workers with willing employers when no Americans can be found to fill the job. This reform will be good for our economy because employers will find needed workers in an honest and orderly system. A temporary worker program will help protect our homeland, allowing Border Patrol and law enforcement to focus on true threats to our national security.

Nope, millions of illegal spicks with criminal backgrounds are in no way a threat to our national security. Its not like they're going to blow up buildings or anything. The worst they could do is steal the jobs from real citizens or savagely murder whites. "Border Patrol"? What patrol? Bush, you so funny! I dont seem to understand something. With the layoff-rate, how can we have so many jobs available to spicks. Sounds to me like more miscegenation and genocide. Maybe some jew somewhere is getting a commission for legalizing millions of criminal spicks.

Quote:
I oppose amnesty, because it would encourage further illegal immigration, and unfairly reward those who break our laws. My temporary worker program will preserve the citizenship path for those who respect the law, while bringing millions of hardworking men and women out from the shadows of American life. (Applause.)

We wouldn't have so much illegal immigration if you would quit promoting america as a haven for scumbags the world over, and if there really was a "Border Patrol" OH yes, millions of hardworking (white) men and women are hiding in the shadows because they are lazy; it wouldn't have anything to do with a spick taking their job or them being fired, would it?

Quote:
A strong America must also value the institution of marriage. I believe we should respect individuals as we take a principled stand for one of the most fundamental, enduring institutions of our civilization. Congress has already taken a stand on this issue by passing the Defense of Marriage Act, signed in 1996 by President Clinton. That statute protects marriage under federal law as a union of a man and a woman, and declares that one state may not redefine marriage for other states.

Well, at least we agree on something bush. Or, are you just telling us what we want to hear to make us shut the **** up?

Quote:
Last month a girl in Lincoln, Rhode Island, sent me a letter. It began, "Dear George W. Bush. If there's anything you know, I, Ashley Pearson, age 10, can do to help anyone, please send me a letter and tell me what I can do to save our country." She added this P.S.: "If you can send a letter to the troops, please put, 'Ashley Pearson believes in you.'" (Applause.)

Its always nice to know that the president's fan-base consists of 10 year olds instead of grown white men who have a bug up their asses about our current situation.

Quote:
May God continue to bless America. (Applause.)

Interpretation: May Ariel Sharon continue to be pleased with HIS america! (Applause.)

Nazi Aryan guys are not very bright, and for some reason paranoid as hell when it comes to zionist, jews, Israel,

[Fox2]

Damned Nazis. :bash:

And what exactly does that have to do with the thread again? I mean, not coming down on you or anything, but I really don't want to have to read that garbage unless I absolutely must.

Could I request that in the future, you not post that sorta crap unless it's directly related to the thread? Nothing personal, just that sort of thing makes me want to regurgitate.

Thanks in advance.

[SeanAshi]

http://www.whiterevolution.com/forum14/

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansing
I started this thread asking for advice on that question and how to answer it the best way. The link is up above, the nazi was blah blah blah then he started with the state of the union speech. Alot of hate on that site.

[gilgoul]

http://www.whiterevolution.com/forum14/

I mean the whole Torah is nothing but a violent pogram of ethnic cleansing
I started this thread asking for advice on that question and how to answer it the best way. The link is up above, the nazi was blah blah blah then he started with the state of the union speech. Alot of hate on that site.

Please, no command or anything of this kind, but don`t waste your time in those kind of forums, those guys just enjoy a freedom of expression (buueeeaarrrkkk!!) they couldn`t have if their "ideas" were put into practice in their own country.
And their knoledge of the Torah his as much as big as my knoledge of brain surgery. (I m a gardener) ;)