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View Full Version : Green Berets say Pakistan aiding Queda/Talib in A-stan



obd
01-26-2004, 11:34 PM
Just read a series of interviews of Green Beret A-team from the Alabama 20th group ODA 2025 which recently returned from seven months on ops in eastern A-stan where thier primary mission was against Taliban-run opium/heroin trade. According to senior weapon Sgt. "Jason" and several other members on the team, it is a poorly hidden secret that Pakistan is giving support to the Taliban in the form of safe havens, weapons, money, and fresh recruits. According to these men, the situation has deteriorated greatly and things are far different, and far worse, then they were during the days of Tora Bora, Mazar, etc..

According to them, Pakistan has taken the que from the Bush Admins obsession with Iraq to increase thier support for Taliban and Queda groups operating against US forces and interests in the region. Surprisingly, this is being done by the ISI and other groups even in the face of multiple assasination attempts by suspected Kashmiri groups and other fundamentalist groups linked to Al Queda on President Mushareffs life in the past several weeks. According to the Green Berets, the combination of bribes from drug profits and the safe haven provided by Pakistan for Talibs is making it impossible to stem the tide of criminal and terrorist activity and the region is becoming increasingly dangerous. Attacks and injuries have increased in recent months. They say becasue no SF operators have died in the region the American public and to a lesser degree the government are not concerned with the warning signs of the Talibs return but they say its only a matter of time before it gets a whole lot worse. They point out that it has become increasingly more difficult to move anywhere in the area without being attacked by at least snipers and they say the reason for this is that locals are beginning to turn to the Taliban to protect what they see as thier only cash crop: Heroin.

The Talibs are taking advantage of this and using networks to spy on SF movements. They say the only reasonable way to move in East A-stan is by Toyota truck and that by following the roads they could go almost nowhere for any length of time undetected. While they say that this is normal in this type of circumstance, what is making it impossible to counter is the fact that Pakistan is covertly and very actively supporting these Taliban groups against American troops. This is known by many but the Bush admin. doesnt want anymore problems so is taking a "see no evil" approach and is failing to pressure the Paks enough to get them to stop. This is not surprising as the Taliban are not a homegrown movement in A-stan. They are actually a product of several factors such as the breakdown of nearly all order post Soviet Afghan war, the years of war lordism and most importantly massive support by Pakistan. In fact, hundreds of new recruits for the Taliban are captured every month by US SF who have nothing to do with them but arrest them and release them because they are mostly boys with little more than a blood lust desire to kill Americans but no real skills. These boys, they say, are all coming from Pakistan madrasas which openly supporting the Taliban and Queda with new recuits right under the very aware eyes of the Pakistani government.

The SF say that until the Pakistani's crack down on these religious zealots it will be a never ending flow of new recruits they cannot stop. One SF operative said that within 6 months the situation had changed from the Taliban being fractured, then to regouping, then to enlarging, and now to counter offensive. He implied that only one variable changed the equation and that was Pakistans ever growing support for the Taliban. Also, according to leaked documents, which may or may not be true, inter-service operations with the FBI/CIA/CAG.DEVGRU and other US units/agencies inside Pakistani territory against these Talib holdouts has been dramatically reduced in recent months aftermuch Paksitani comlaints. It all points to one thing. Mushareff, faced with growing resentment of his support for America, faced with the virtual annihilation of the Taliban which Paksitna spent much effort creating and building in the 1980's, and faced with little US concession with regard to Pakistans attacks in Kashmir and India has decided he has no choice but to stop presuring other elements of the govnt, such as the ISI, to lower support for the Taliban. This is creating, in the words of some US senators who have been keeping close eye on the situation, a "vietnam/cambodia type situation".

This is also beginning to look alot like the Soviet Afghan war. In addition, the SF operators who worked exclusively outside the capital of Kandahar claim that the "real afghanistan" is still just as extremist as ever. One, and this is a direct quote, said "I would rather be a dog in American than a women in A-stan". The team felt discouraged that they were fighting for freedom in a place that has never really shown any inclination towards democracy and still treats women "worse than America treated its slaves in the 1800's". In fact, one recently returned SF called the situation a "lost cause" and said from his experiences with Afghans that they "are a people who only ever really unite when they have a greater enemy to fight and have no real sense of nationalism and have only tribal loyalty and dont even understand the concept of democracy at all,much less support womens freedom". Half jokingly, the SF operator said it would be more cost effective than spending billions of dollars in impossible "nationbuilding" to just come back every ten years and wage a quick war as before and just wipe them clean again. While of course joking around, it did illustrate the frustrations of fighitng an enemy with, at least in E. A-stan, local support and a ready safe haven to rest, re-equip, and return to fight another day.

Jack Mehoff
01-27-2004, 12:10 AM
wtf?! Use paragraph damn it

Salty Dog
01-27-2004, 12:14 AM
wtf?! Use paragraph damn it

i agree with you for once jack

steel bonnet
01-27-2004, 01:06 AM
Well of course the Pakis are.

There a long time supporter of the Taliban & everything else that went on in Afghanistan.

I`ve been surprised at the amount of trust we actually gave the Paki`s were the War on Terrorism stands. As soon as any Military missions had started in A-stan,the likes of Bin laden was already over the border in Pakistan if you ask me.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

obd
01-27-2004, 01:27 AM
yes I agree. I had read alot of stuff by Lester Grau who is an expert on the Soviet Afghan war. His books, such as "The Bear Went over the Mountain" and "The other side of the Mountain" are pretty good at analyzing the tactical aspect of the campaign. He also has several other works that deal with strategic aspects which are recomended also. The Pakistani ISI basically nurtured the Taliban from a grassroots movement into the major force (at least relative to the other forces in A-stan) that it became prior to the US war. I always thought we were simply trying to do the best we could, in the absense of an actual full out war with Pakistan, to limit its support for the Talibs and now it looks like we no longer have such sway in the region to make demands and see action.....troubling at the least.......Maybe we should be more buddy buddy with India. I already saw some pics on this forum of recent US-Indian training ops very near the Pak border. This is something unheard of in the 1970/80's when India was seen with some level of contempt and suspicion during the Cold War. I see Indian-US relations as very very positive with regard to both Pakistan and China.....

18C4V
01-27-2004, 02:27 AM
where did you see this article at?

obd
01-27-2004, 02:37 AM
Part of it comes from a series of interviews from SOF correspondents who went to Afghanistan to interview the team in-country and then interviewed them post return later. Other part comes from WLEM interviews. Other parts of interview come from Federation of American Scientist website which publishes a whole bunch of official US GOVnt docs on stuff like this. The website is WWW.FAS.ORG. Its a great website!!!!! SOF is a whole lotta crap but recently they have done some good interviews and taken some good pics of guys on the ground. They did an interesting profile in a past issue on an ODA team leader who quit his job at NASA to go green beret. Oh yeah, the March 04 (which just came out) issueof SOF also has some really good info on the new 6.8 SPC cartridge which has been finding its way into a few SF hands in A-stan. This new cartridge is somewhat interesting as the cartridge is 50% of the weapons effectiveness, if not more.

Royal
01-27-2004, 02:56 AM
Tell us something we don't know.

"Those who fail to learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it" - George Santayana

obd
01-27-2004, 03:07 AM
haha Royal grow up. I know you have a grudge against me but please. Your being a little bit assenine.

NcDeuce
01-27-2004, 09:53 AM
Just read a series of interviews of Green Beret A-team from the Alabama 20th group ODA 2025 which recently returned from seven months on ops in eastern A-stan where thier primary mission was against Taliban-run opium/heroin trade. According to senior weapon Sgt. "Jason" and several other members on the team, it is a poorly hidden secret that Pakistan is giving support to the Taliban in the form of safe havens, weapons, money, and fresh recruits. According to these men, the situation has deteriorated greatly and things are far different, and far worse, then they were during the days of Tora Bora, Mazar, etc..

According to them, Pakistan has taken the que from the Bush Admins obsession with Iraq to increase thier support for Taliban and Queda groups operating against US forces and interests in the region. Surprisingly, this is being done by the ISI and other groups even in the face of multiple assasination attempts by suspected Kashmiri groups and other fundamentalist groups linked to Al Queda on President Mushareffs life in the past several weeks. According to the Green Berets, the combination of bribes from drug profits and the safe haven provided by Pakistan for Talibs is making it impossible to stem the tide of criminal and terrorist activity and the region is becoming increasingly dangerous. Attacks and injuries have increased in recent months. They say becasue no SF operators have died in the region the American public and to a lesser degree the government are not concerned with the warning signs of the Talibs return but they say its only a matter of time before it gets a whole lot worse. They point out that it has become increasingly more difficult to move anywhere in the area without being attacked by at least snipers and they say the reason for this is that locals are beginning to turn to the Taliban to protect what they see as thier only cash crop: Heroin.

The Talibs are taking advantage of this and using networks to spy on SF movements. They say the only reasonable way to move in East A-stan is by Toyota truck and that by following the roads they could go almost nowhere for any length of time undetected. While they say that this is normal in this type of circumstance, what is making it impossible to counter is the fact that Pakistan is covertly and very actively supporting these Taliban groups against American troops. This is known by many but the Bush admin. doesnt want anymore problems so is taking a "see no evil" approach and is failing to pressure the Paks enough to get them to stop. This is not surprising as the Taliban are not a homegrown movement in A-stan. They are actually a product of several factors such as the breakdown of nearly all order post Soviet Afghan war, the years of war lordism and most importantly massive support by Pakistan. In fact, hundreds of new recruits for the Taliban are captured every month by US SF who have nothing to do with them but arrest them and release them because they are mostly boys with little more than a blood lust desire to kill Americans but no real skills. These boys, they say, are all coming from Pakistan madrasas which openly supporting the Taliban and Queda with new recuits right under the very aware eyes of the Pakistani government.

The SF say that until the Pakistani's crack down on these religious zealots it will be a never ending flow of new recruits they cannot stop. One SF operative said that within 6 months the situation had changed from the Taliban being fractured, then to regouping, then to enlarging, and now to counter offensive. He implied that only one variable changed the equation and that was Pakistans ever growing support for the Taliban. Also, according to leaked documents, which may or may not be true, inter-service operations with the FBI/CIA/CAG.DEVGRU and other US units/agencies inside Pakistani territory against these Talib holdouts has been dramatically reduced in recent months aftermuch Paksitani comlaints. It all points to one thing. Mushareff, faced with growing resentment of his support for America, faced with the virtual annihilation of the Taliban which Paksitna spent much effort creating and building in the 1980's, and faced with little US concession with regard to Pakistans attacks in Kashmir and India has decided he has no choice but to stop presuring other elements of the govnt, such as the ISI, to lower support for the Taliban. This is creating, in the words of some US senators who have been keeping close eye on the situation, a "vietnam/cambodia type situation".

This is also beginning to look alot like the Soviet Afghan war. In addition, the SF operators who worked exclusively outside the capital of Kandahar claim that the "real afghanistan" is still just as extremist as ever. One, and this is a direct quote, said "I would rather be a dog in American than a women in A-stan". The team felt discouraged that they were fighting for freedom in a place that has never really shown any inclination towards democracy and still treats women "worse than America treated its slaves in the 1800's". In fact, one recently returned SF called the situation a "lost cause" and said from his experiences with Afghans that they "are a people who only ever really unite when they have a greater enemy to fight and have no real sense of nationalism and have only tribal loyalty and dont even understand the concept of democracy at all,much less support womens freedom". Half jokingly, the SF operator said it would be more cost effective than spending billions of dollars in impossible "nationbuilding" to just come back every ten years and wage a quick war as before and just wipe them clean again. While of course joking around, it did illustrate the frustrations of fighitng an enemy with, at least in E. A-stan, local support and a ready safe haven to rest, re-equip, and return to fight another day.

Dammit, you didn't write it so quote it schmuck.

I've been saying all along...some Pakis have been assisting all along. I'm sure the guys over the pond know and have taken a few 'trips' over the line.

usa320
01-27-2004, 03:42 PM
I think people need to be careful though to seperate the Pakistani government as a whole, from defunct soldiers, border guards that are corrupt, and tribal men on the border region.

Haiw
01-27-2004, 03:54 PM
Well last time I checked the ISI was still under the control of the Pakistani government...

Argyll
01-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Then why couldn't the same be done for the Iraqi's?

The Pakistan Intelligence Service is not pissed off soldiers or bribeable border guards!!

TriggerPuller
01-27-2004, 04:28 PM
where did you see this article at?Hey isnt that ODA leader the genius Captain. I believe he is a rocket scientist or something. I **** you not.

TP

P.S. see you at SOCNET bro!

Argyll
01-27-2004, 04:32 PM
I thought the rocket man was from the 19th SFG?

George W. Bush
01-27-2004, 04:37 PM
One acronym.. MOAB

Argyll
01-27-2004, 04:40 PM
another 2 words.......A-Hole!
WTF do you want to drop a MOAB on Pakistan for,you are totally clueless ,seems like there's an asylum missing an idiot somewhere!

George W. Bush
01-27-2004, 04:41 PM
No.. Nuke Pakistan, MOAB the Taliban controlled areas.. idiot

Argyll
01-27-2004, 04:44 PM
ah ok thats different then!

TriggerPuller
01-27-2004, 04:46 PM
another 2 words.......A-Hole!
WTF do you want to drop a MOAB on Pakistan for,you are totally clueless ,seems like there's an asylum missing an idiot somewhere! You guys wouldnt have any Paki help in England if we bombed them now would you!! :D

TP

P.S. probably a bad attempt at humour the Paki are kinda like our resident alien latino population in Los Angeles.

Argyll
01-27-2004, 04:48 PM
Yes but then again the England cricket team might be in with a chance if you help them out ;)

Haiw
01-27-2004, 04:53 PM
Maybe we could ask Powell to give a nice WMD presentation about Pakistan down in New Delhi? :D

obd
01-28-2004, 01:38 AM
yes, that green beret captain used to be a propulsion engineer at NASA. no joke!! Thats pretty interesting if you ask me. Apparently he was doing that work when he got the call and joined the GB's in A-stan. But of course this is not really unique in any SF unit from almost any country accept maybe Chine which seems to fashion its SF peronel after Jet Li movies. haha just kidding. Anyway, if you look at SAS, SBS, SF, CAG, DEVGRU, etc etc etc on and on and on......you will see that many of them are serious type-A personality types and are very intelligent. Believe me, I've been working on my foreign language skills for the past 2 years. My dad speaks fluent Spanish so it was easy to get fluent in that also because I ahve several spanish speaking freinds. My twin sister recently was engaged to a Morrocan and he taught her Arabic (shealso took 2 years in univesity). She has been teaching me Morrocan arabic off and on for 8 months and I had an easier time pulling a A- in Freshman physics hehe. I have alot of respect for those SF guys who speak 4,5,6,even 7 languages or more fluently. Seems impossible to me with all that other stuff to learn as well and all that time training in other areas. Really blows my mind every time .