Problems with armor found on Stryker combat vehicle

[scoone]

Problems with armor found on Stryker combat vehicle

By Ray Rivera and Hal Bernton
Seattle Times staff reporters

Weeks before the Army's Stryker vehicle is scheduled to make its combat debut in Iraq, the Army has discovered manufacturing problems in some of its armor plating that could make it vulnerable to heavy machine-gun fire, according to Army officials familiar with the program.
The extent of the problem is still unknown, but it's serious enough that Army officials have launched a crash program to test the plates at their Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. They are hopeful it won't delay deployment of troops from Fort Lewis, said two Army officials at the Pentagon, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Small manufacturing deviations are not uncommon, but "because this is armor plating and a survivability issue, it's much more serious," one of the officials said. "This one got farther down the road than we would normally like."

The 19-ton wheeled troop carriers are the cornerstone of the Stryker combat team, the first step in the Army's ambitious, multi-billion-dollar transformation initiative to produce a more nimble, lethal fighting force.

The first unit, the 3rd Brigade of the 2nd Infantry Division, which has about 300 Stryker vehicles, is in its final training exercises at Fort Lewis before its scheduled October deployment.

Army officials said the unit would not be deployed until all of the faulty plates could be identified and replaced or fortified with 3-mm armor backing.

"We're very careful when it comes to the survivability of armored vehicles," said one of the Army officials.

The Stryker vehicles rely on 132 separate ceramic plates designed to protect against rounds up to 14.5 mm, slightly bigger than a .50-caliber bullet.

But Army procurement officials recently found that the military subcontractor hired to provide the armor deviated widely from specifications, providing 39 manufacturing variations of the plates, the sources said. The Army had approved only six variations.

Testers at Aberdeen found that at least one variation of the armor could not stop a 14.5-mm round, the Army officials said. The armor's supplier, German military contractor IBD, could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The Army has tested at least seven additional variations in live fire trials, all of which held, the sources said.

General Dynamics, the Army's lead contractor for the vehicle, has delivered more than 500 Stryker vehicles, equipped with more than 66,000 plates. General Dynamics has a $4 billion contract to produce 2,100 vehicles over the next six years.

Army officials said finding and replacing faulty armor plates won't be a problem because each has a serial number and is logged in a database.

The Army will not begin replacing armor on the 3rd Brigade's 300 vehicles until at least Sept. 14, when the unit completes training, the officials said.

The Stryker combat teams, which have about 3,600 soldiers, were conceived in 1999 by former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki with the idea of closing the gap between the Army's slow-moving heavy tank units and its light infantry forces, which are quick to deploy but have limited firepower.

The vehicles come in two variants: a mobile gun system, which is still under development, and an armored trooper carrier, which can quickly ferry up to 11 soldiers into combat zones. The troop carriers, in turn, come in eight variations, including mortar carriers, command and control vehicles, reconnaissance and medivac vehicles.

Six brigades are under development, the first two at Fort Lewis.

A source of concern has been the vehicle's vulnerability to rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), which have been widely used by Iraqi guerrilla forces.

The Army is planning to equip the vehicles with slat-armor, creating a sort of umbrella designed to detonate incoming grenades before they make direct contact with the vehicle.

Ray Rivera: 206-464-2926 or rayrivera@seattletimes.com; Hal Bernton: 206-464-2581 or hbernton@seattletimes.com

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001714917_stryker5m.html

[oldsoak]

Hope they sort it out before some poor sod get shot up in one.

[Apogee]

This article is pretty old. If you go to the source its dated:

Friday, September 05, 2003

They've been doing alot of testing and outfitted the Strykers in Iraq with Slat armour.

[Uncle Sam]

It's typical to find the flaw after they've(We) spent billions on these things. They(We) will have to spend a couple million more fixing them. But better safe then sorry.

[California Joe]

I know the scientist that developed the ceramic plates in use on US armor. Brilliant man. But they don't do much good if used incorrectly.

[Trigger]

California Joe is well connected like that :D

[California Joe]

Word.

[Nizark]

Anyone know how the RPG cage is working?

[James]

To date, I don't believe any Strykers have been lost to RPG fire. I don't know if any have even been engaged. It seems that the insurgents' weapon of choice these days is the good old IED.

[Ratamacue]

To my knowledge, only one Stryker has been lost due to enemy action and that was by a rather large bomb or mine. All the crew and passengers made it out alive as well.

[soma]

3600 soldiers form the stryker bridage? Isn't that tremoundously small?

[Durandal]

3600 soldiers form the stryker bridage? Isn't that tremoundously small?

An infantry Brigade is roughly 5000 men.


Not too sure where they got their sources fo r the article. General Dynamics replaced the faulty tiles, which were originally contracted to a German company...IBD.

Here is a more recent, but still old, article...

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030916-103656-1762r.htm

[gilgoul]

Anyone know how the RPG cage is working?

Just like the chain on the neck of the Merkava, or the toga armour on the israeli m113, a simple layer or cage that detonates the head, and then nothing, some air, just enough (about 30 cm if i`m correct) to let the strenght of the fusion dart of the head to "cool of " and lose it`s penetration power.
The remain might still do some damage, but really far from the original melting/presure effect of a direct impact.

[Mudcat]

If I were General Dynamics, I would be looking for a new supplier for the plates.

[scoone]

Controversy Surrounds Army's Stryker
Jon E. Dougherty
Wednesday, Jan. 28, 2004
The U.S. Army's newest armored vehicle, the Stryker, is plagued with problems and fraught with dangers for crewmen, say military watchdogs and other organizations who have examined the wheeled vehicle's performance record.
Also, critics and analysts have questioned the Defense Department's procurement of the vehicle as well as the Pentagon's decision to build it, adding the military has ignored warnings about the Stryker's perceived vulnerability and overall survivability in combat.

According to an analysis by the Project On Government Oversight, or POGO, one of the Pentagon's own testing officials sent the defense agency a letter warning the $3 million-per-copy Stryker Interim Armored Vehicle wasn't ready for deployment in Iraq.

POGO says Tom Christie, the Pentagon's director of Operational Testing and Evaluation, recommended in a classified letter the Army refrain from sending the vehicles overseas because they could be susceptible to rocket-propelled grenade [RPG] fire or other explosions – a recommendation the Army rejected.

But, POGO analysts noted, "The Stryker has already failed to protect soldiers from one of these weapons."

"A Stryker passed over an improvised explosive device planted in a road in Iraq" on Dec. 13, POGO noted in an assessment. "The device detonated, injuring a soldier who barely managed to escape as fire engulfed the engine compartment."

Maj. Gary Tallman, a Pentagon spokesman, told NewsMax the Strykers deployed in the Iraqi theater so far had achieved a 90 percent operational readiness.

"Overall performance you can characterize as excellent," Tallman said. Regarding damage, "it has shown it's survivability – based on what it's encountered so far – has been high," he added.

Strykers from the 3rd Brigade, Second Infantry Division based in Fort Lewis, Wash., were sent to Iraq in December. The were outfitted with an extra layer of armor and a steel cage intended to offer more protection against insurgents armed with RPG's, which added another 5,000 pounds to their overall weight, making them less nimble, critics say.

In terms of damage and casualties, Tallman said those have been light so far. "There have been three known IED [improved explosive device] incidents," such as roadside bombs, involving Strykers, he said.

In the first, "the vehicle was severely damaged, but the only injury to the crew was a broken leg," Tallman said. In the second, a wheel was blown off "but the vehicle continued under it's own power, which was part of its design." In the third, "there was moderate damage sustained, but the vehicle was recovered" with minor injuries to the crew.

He said he was not aware of any RPG strikes on any Strykers, adding the vehicles had been outfitted with slat armor since being deployed to Iraq.

Good to Go?

The Army says its first new fighting vehicle in 20 years is well-suited for its task and denies it is a problem child for the military. And, the Pentagon says it is a good replacement for the tracked M-113 armored personnel carrier, which was designed around the time of the Korean War.

In announcing his decision in 1999 to procure the Stryker, Shinseki, who questioned the soldiers who had driven it, repaired it and maneuvered it through miles of pine forest at Fort Polk, in west-central Louisiana, brushed aside concerns about its survivability on the battlefield.

"It's not a question of how much armor you can put on it," Shinseki said, adding Iraqi paramilitaries had destroyed two M1 tanks in the first Gulf war by firing at its more vulnerable rear.

"The idea is to avoid taking a hit in the first place," said the four-star general, noting the Stryker's greatly increased mobility.

Jim Garamone, a reporter for the Armed Forces Press Service and a former M-113 driver, wrote approvingly of the Stryker following a test drive in October 2003 at Fort Lewis. He said "wheeled vehicles offer many advantages, and the Army is developing the Stryker to exploit them."

"The difference between a Stryker and an M-113 is like the difference between a Yugo and a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost," Garamone wrote.

He also said the Stryker handled better than the M-113, was much faster (with a top speed of 60 m.p.h.), had better armor, and could carry more troops. "My only complaints," Garamone wrote, "There's no CD player in the dashboard and no place to hang my fuzzy dice."

In comments at Fort Lewis June 6, 2002 – the 58th anniversary of D-Day, the invasion of Europe in World War II – Adm. Thomas Fargo, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command, praised the Stryker as a necessary weapon for the next generation of warfighters.

"This armor vehicle helps meet one of the important priorities I see for Pacific Command - that is, promoting change and improving our Asia-Pacific defense posture for the future," Fargo said.

"Deployability, mobility, knowledge superiority – these are the kind of capabilities that make the joint force, a lethal force in the 21st century," he added. "The Stryker Brigade will bring these capabilities to Pacific Command ground forces, not just here, but eventually to ground forces in Alaska and Hawaii as well."

Stryker supporters say other armored vehicles like the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the M1 Abrams, the U.S. military's main battle tank, still have some problems after two decades' worth of use. They say every vehicle has limitations, including tanks, and that soldiers should know these limitations. And they say despite advances in weapons and armor, soldiers and crewmen still get killed in armored vehicles.

Finally, they believe Stryker's new armor is better than the armor used in M-113s. And they like the speed advantage offered by the Stryker over the older tracked vehicle.

Not Convinced

Still, longtime weapons analysts and military pros remain unconvinced the Stryker will deliver its promised benefits once heavily engaged in battle.

Lonnie T. Shoultz, a Vietnam combat vet with the 101st Airborne Division, former Green Beret and fraud investigator for the U.S. Treasury Department, says among other problems, the Stryker fails to meet its original transport specifications. When top Defense Department brass figured that out, they simply changed the requirements, he said.

Initially, the Army called for its Stryker to be deployable by C-130 transport aircraft, and be ready to fight as soon as it was unloaded. But, Shoultz says in a lengthy analysis for MilitaryCorruption.com, a Web site that monitors defense-related issues, that requirement was changed in "mid-stream."

When the Army "learned that General Dynamics could not lighten the 'Stryker' and make it meet its contracted weight, instead of leaning on the contractor to perform up to standard in the contract, Army liaison personnel approached all Congressional points of contact and convinced them that they never 'really, actually meant' flying the Stryker in Air Force C-130s was required," he said.

"There is a reason that Congress mandated the Strykers use C-130s. If a Stryker brigade is to be deployed anywhere in 96 hours, as promised by Shinseki, the Air force would have to use all of its 500 c-130s to transport the 308 Stryker variants in a brigade.," Shoultz writes. "The Air Force only has a little less than 120 C-17s. They cannot allot all of them to the Army’s Strykers …"

Shoultz also said tracked vehicles are much more mobile in the long run than the eight-wheeled Stryker. He said during tests the latter would often become mired in thick, deep mud and sand, though the tracked M-113 could get through easily.

He also suggested the M-113s could have been re-outfitted with modern technology included in the Stryker, for a fraction of the cost, and were more easily deployed than Stryker.

Cousins in Trouble

Another early sign of trouble are problems being encountered by similar vehicles manufactured for the New Zealand army. Dubbed the LAV III, six of 15 brand-new vehicles delivered to the country's armed forces have been fraught with mechanical problems.

According to a Jan. 21 report in the New Zealand Herald, the problems include:


The breakdown of a turbo unit;
A broken heater;
A faulty auxiliary power unit;
A broken axle;
An oil leak;
Transfer gear-case unserviceable.
New Zealand Defense Minister Mark Burton has defended the vehicles' reliability, saying the glitches were minor and even expected in a new vehicle.

But other officials, including lawmakers, say question its reliability, especially after learning of the defects.

New Zealand is buying 105 LAV IIIs, which are manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems Canada, to replace the army's fleet of aging M-113s. The first batch of 15 arrived in-country in November, but a month later, the Herald said, only six of the more than $6 million-per-copy vehicles were operational.

The paper said the problem vehicles had travelled between 172 and 1,456 miles.

"I would not accept it on a Toyota Landcruiser," said New Zealand First MP and former Army officer Ron Mark. "We should not accept it on an LAV III. Given their much-vaunted performance in the Canadian theatre, I'm surprised we are having any of these problems.

"The public were told these vehicles were tried and tested around the world and we were not buying a prototype," he said.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/28/151543.shtml

[Yard Ape]

February 2, 2004
Wolfowitz Gets an Upfront Message From Unhappy Iraqis
By THOM SHANKER

Commanders ordered the Stryker‘s defenses to be upgraded, and a metal cage called "slat armor" has been bolted to all 300 Strykers in Iraq, making the armored car look like a rhino in a cage — only it carries the cage with it.

One Stryker received the ultimate test even as Mr. Wolfowitz was touring Mosul, when it was it was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade on the other side of the city in an ambush that senior officers said had nothing to do with the deputy defense secretary‘s visit.

Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, the incoming commander of coalition forces in northern Iraq, said that, as designed, the slat armor forced the grenade to detonate 18 inches away from the Stryker‘s skin, diffusing the blast. None of the troops inside the vehicle were injured, he said, and the Stryker itself sustained only minor damage and continued its patrol.
It seems the Stryker’s new clothes do work.

[Durandal]

Yeah, the new armor slats are crazy looking...but I understand how they work. Function vs. form...

Here are some photos for those of you that have not seen the stuff...

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front7.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front12.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front6.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front4.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front2.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/121203front1.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/AT012804rcStrykerptrl001.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/AT012804rcStrykerptrl003.jpg

http://www.strykernews.com/gallery/albums/album01/18_G.sized.jpg

http://www.strykernews.com/gallery/albums/album01/19_G.jpg

http://www.strykernews.com/gallery/albums/album01/43_G.jpg

http://www.strykernews.com/gallery/albums/album01/95_G.jpg

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/013004fronts15.jpg

[George W. Bush]

Thanks for posting those

[Durandal]

Thanks for posting those

No problem.

[Ian H]

Are there any plans to fit weapons and shields around the top hatch, sort of like the Vietnam era M-113 had, or is one 50 cal considered enough?

[Yard Ape]

It can also mount a 40 mm AGL.