US to Help Polish Airlift Capability in 05 Budget.

[wholagun]

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=315464C7-8000-4679-80C8123243645532&title=Bush%2DKwasniewski%20Talks%20Focus%20on%20Polish%20Military%2C%20Iraq%2C%20US%20Visa%20Policies&catOID=45C9C78C-88AD-11D4-A57200A0CC5EE46C&categoryname=Europe

US is allocating 66 million in the 2005 budget to help Poland buy airlift aircraft ie C 130. How many of them will be purchased I have no idea. Being on US good side has benifits such as this, having [you] US taxpayers pay for our military upgrade. :D Thats what I call money well spent. ;)

[Ratamacue]

You're welcome. ;)

[wholagun]

cough cough * Now...... I....ahhh don't suppose....there is any way... you guys could ahhh throw in some F 22s is there? :D

[budanski]

... yeah, "Old Europe" used to think U.S. taxpayers money was money well spent, too. ;)

[wholagun]

Oh this article didn't mention the thousand somthing Humvees that you guys bought us that will be produced in Poland.

Yeah... ahh Im still waiting for the F 22s. ;)

[Nizark]

cough cough * Now...... I....ahhh don't suppose....there is any way... you guys could ahhh throw in some F 22s is there? :D


On the way boss!

[marktigger]

last i'd heard the poles were buying second hand C130K's from Lockheed.

[wholagun]

last i'd heard the poles were buying second hand C130K's from Lockheed.

**** are you serious. Damn. I was hoping for modern planes, not second hand planes that have flown more then thier share around the world.

[Loco]

last i'd heard the poles were buying second hand C130K's from Lockheed.

**** are you serious. Damn. I was hoping for modern planes, not second hand planes that have flown more then thier share around the world.
I suppose it must be something like "you get what you pay", a new C-130 is for sure over 50million $.

[Herrmannek]

Used or new, no ****in difference....it's imporatant that they should be in usable condition and didn't need any additional maintenance.....

[the_spec]

Well, they also bought used german Leopard 2 tanks, so why buy aircrafts new then?

[Kitsune]

budanski wrote:

... yeah, "Old Europe" used to think U.S. taxpayers money was money well spent, too.

If you want to say something, say it. What money are you referring to, exactly?

[Whistler]

http://www.borderlandnews.com/war/photos/20030412-99753-57380.JPEG

[army cadet_ngcsu]

Well, in regard to the US helping out Poland with money and what not...I know that this is some what off topic but my parents were going to go to Germany this summer but decided not to and have now decided to go to Poland instead. They want to see what are new found allies are like and want to support their economy. I also know of another friend who is doing the same.

[wyrm_142]

Glad to see us sending money somewhere OTHER than the near east.

Now, what can we do to get the Alps to move into Poland? That way troops dont' have to spend an extra 6 hours in a bus to ski (damn the 12 hour drive to Ski was hell).

[wholagun]

my parents were going to go to Germany this summer but decided not to and have now decided to go to Poland instead. They want to see what are new found allies are like and want to support their economy. I also know of another friend who is doing the same.

not only will you help out our economy, but the trip will cost you less money. Where are they planning on going you know?

[budanski]

If you want to say something, say it. What money are you referring to, exactly?

The other half of the U.S. military spending for the past 50 years the US has been dumping in europe for its defense. Perhaps the billions the US pumps into the German economy every year is too miniscule to be noticed. And then theres this trend in Europe to downplay the Marshall Plan. Accusations of taking advantage of the little ole europeans. Well, I guess we have Germany to thank for then, Twice.

Until the europeans can improve in their logistics, command and control, survivability of forces and infrastructure, mobility, and effective engagement. There wouldnt be a need for the U.S. to say, give you a lift to Kosovo.(Perhaps the Poles can help out with their new airlift capability, which won't sit too well with the Germans to have to depend on the Poles) Instead, as usual, the europeans have invested more in anti-US invective than in modernization.

[Durandal]

About fu%$ing time we got the Poles those C130s. They are our staunchest ally in Europe (I'll argue even more than England). The last time they asked for C130s we said no.


Nice to see our government did the right thing finally.

[marktigger]

seems to be an interest in former RAF C130's something to do with better maintanence and records than equiv US ones.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

not only will you help out our economy, but the trip will cost you less money. Where are they planning on going you know?


They're going to Gdansk, Warsaw, and Krakow (spelling?).

[Durandal]

My friends and I are planning a trip to Eastern Europe in 2005. I will definately push for Poland.

What are the chances of meeting up with some of the folks on the forum in Poland proper? Maybe do an evening or two of food and heavy drinking.

[Kicius]

Drinking with Poles can seriously damage your health. :D

[Kitsune]

@Budanksi

1)On the contrary, Americans have a tendency to up-play the Marshal plan. Some actually think that the USA singlehandedly rebuild Germany. The Marshal plan was a starting help. And it was money well invested, the US wanted to help Europe on its feet again to promote trade and...incidently...earn money. It has worked, evey cent invested in Germany back then has paid off. With interests.

2)The money pumped in the German economy every year? You might not have noticed, but we have to pay for your troop presence. Its not for free. You seem to think your own leadership is stupid or something...trust me, budanski, the US knows how to look after their interests. Please do not forget how many scientific and technical knowledge the US took from Germany after WWII. Not to forget the constant industrial espionage of NSA and CIA especially in Western Germany (has it stopped now?). Sumed up, the USA did not suffer overly much, so stop complaining.

3)Any money spend in the defense of Europe was part of something called "The Cold War". The Russians spend money in Eastern Europe, too. If you are unhappy about this complain to your Ex-Presidents or something not to us Europeans. We couldn't and didn't force you to do it. And don't forget: there are atleast some "grateful" European nations around, who support America what ever it does. Had the US not spend that money they would support Russia now.

[wholagun]

not only will you help out our economy, but the trip will cost you less money. Where are they planning on going you know?


They're going to Gdansk, Warsaw, and Krakow (spelling?).


Ahh all fine choices. I must say they are going to the probably the finest cities in Poland. They'll get to see alot since all three cities are far from each other. Gdansk in the northern part, Warsaw in central/eatern Poland and Krakow in the southern part. Spelling seems to be good as well, although we spell it Warszawa in Polish. Enjoy your trip. Im heading over to Poland this summer as well for 8 days, although I'll be in Germany for 6 weeks learning German.

[Kitsune]

Where exactly will you be in Germany, wholagun?

[wholagun]

Ich wurde nach Deutschland gehe zu Deutsce studiere in Kassel bei Weisbaden and Frankfurt, which I read is the home of the German Pumma IVF, I also read that Kassel is where the German cannibal is being tried in court. Im not sure if its zu or nach - very confusing. I'll be living with a Germany family and studying University German as part of Canadian summer school in Germany program which is held anually. There is a trip to Berlin for 4 days which I hear kicks ass.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, the people in Kassel are bit weird...
But the food is great !!! :D



Take care. p-)

[wholagun]

Yeah, the people in Kassel are bit weird...
But the food is great !!! :D



Take care. p-)

What wierd? How so? Is the food better in Kassel then in the rest of Germany? Also, Im want to get a huge mother of a Beer mug - the ones they use in Munich during Oktober Fest. Are those whidely available in Germany or no? You know the ones, the big huge ones that are like the size of your entire head, they can fit as least 2 letres in those big ass things and I want one.

[Durandal]

Drinking with Poles can seriously damage your health. :D

:D

Nothing more of the same won't fix the next day! rofl

[budanski]

@Budanksi

1)On the contrary, Americans have a tendency to up-play the Marshal plan. Some actually think that the USA singlehandedly rebuild Germany. The Marshal plan was a starting help. And it was money well invested, the US wanted to help Europe on its feet again to promote trade and...incidently...earn money. It has worked, evey cent invested in Germany back then has paid off. With interests.

Take the Marshall Plan out of the equation, name me another country willing to invest in Europe after the war, ANY. One only has to take a good look at what the East half of Berlin looked like when the wall came down. That is what your entire country would have looked like if the US had just butted-out of the business.

I wonder what percentage of of the modern day "Count Cavours" have overlooked how America kept them out of the gulag for 50 years at great cost in treasure and lives? And how do they think that debt can be repaid?


2)The money pumped in the German economy every year? You might not have noticed, but we have to pay for your troop presence. Its not for free. You seem to think your own leadership is stupid or something...trust me, budanski, the US knows how to look after their interests. Please do not forget how many scientific and technical knowledge the US took from Germany after WWII. Not to forget the constant industrial espionage of NSA and CIA especially in Western Germany (has it stopped now?). Sumed up, the USA did not suffer overly much, so stop complaining.
Funny, why is it that Germans are more concerned about the U.S. bases being closed than Americans?

In 'K-Town,' American bases are a pillar of local economy (http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/archive.asp?doc=%7B73A184E7-5DB5-4802-BF57-3ED9794AA996%7D&width=1280&height=966&agt=netscape&ver=5&svr=5)
Major installations in Rhineland-Palatinate and Bavaria in particular are hugely important to local workers, businesses

Also, when the Americans pulled out of Panama, we also took with us $400,000,000 we used to spend there a year. Panama, with a population of only 3,000,000 has yet to recovered.


3)Any money spend in the defense of Europe was part of something called "The Cold War". The Russians spend money in Eastern Europe, too. If you are unhappy about this complain to your Ex-Presidents or something not to us Europeans. We couldn't and didn't force you to do it. And don't forget: there are atleast some "grateful" European nations around, who support America what ever it does. Had the US not spend that money they would support Russia now.
Pretty easy to have a socialist paradise with generous health benefits, etc. when someone else is picking up the tab for defense, in addition to pumping millions of payroll greenbacks into your economy every month. Would you have preferred the U.S. let the Red Army make Germany a soviet satellite? I really do believe the current generation of Germans are living in "Scharaffenland" - their version of Cloud Coo Coo Land.

How coincidental that now the U.S. has made public to the base closures, that Germany feels the need to do the same to save them much needed funds...

Germany to cut troops and close bases to save £18bn (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/14/wgerm14.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/14/ixworld.html)

Well I gotta say, better to go to Poland or Checkoslovakia where we are more than welcome and they are grateful to us for standing against the Soviets and helping them to become free nations.

Interesting, I didnt recall any German leaders standing at the Berlin Wall telling the Soviet leader to tear it down. I do seem to recall that an American president did, and a few years later, it was gone.

[Durandal]

Rock on B.

[Kitsune]

@Budanski.

The restructuring of Bundeswehr has nothing to do with the current plans of The USA to redeploy troops. The German Armed Forces had been structured for homeland defense only. Since Germany faces no enemy at its borders, they are being restructured and that includes sliming them down and closing bases.

Of course American forces are a pillar of LOCAL economy. Same goes for German Armed Forces in, for example, Koblenz. If we would abolish our army totally, GERMANY would save billions...but for the people of Koblenz the many closed barracks and bases would mean a loss of customers. Same for the US Armed Forces. Germany as WHOLE does not earn money with them. On the contrary. But in Kaiserslautern people profit. They will possibly demand federal money or something for their economic losses. But again thats a LOCAL thing, Budanski.

I have no problem with that issue. If the USA want to redeploy their troops, I can live with it.

[tony6]

Durandal:
heavy drinking?
I'm in!!!
:)

[Herrmannek]

Durandal:
heavy drinking?
I'm in!!!
:)

Do you realy want to make that only thing Durandal will remember from visit in Poland was headache... :)

[tony6]

"heavy drinking"-He said that:)

[SOG]

2)The money pumped in the German economy every year? You might not have noticed, but we have to pay for your troop presence. Its not for free. You seem to think your own leadership is stupid or something...trust me, budanski, the US knows how to look after their interests. Please do not forget how many scientific and technical knowledge the US took from Germany after WWII.

as did every country to some degree and as was there right. your saying we shoudnt have? or are you saying that is just payment for lives lost? damn ****ing right we took ****ing documents, we ****ing earned every one of them. we just had gone through one of the biggest wars, (yet again) in a century and were covering our asses.


Not to forget the constant industrial espionage of NSA and CIA especially in Western Germany (has it stopped now?).

im sorry, your aware of NSA industrial espionage? or is this usual spy vs spy **** that EVERY country engages in? or did we take a active counter interest against russia? im sorry, germans were defecting onto which side of the wall again? we supposedly robbed what idustrial technology? i know in business it is common pratice to copy something better, is this the samme thing or did we steal then supress a technolgy germany was building post ww2?


Germany as WHOLE does not earn money with them. On the contrary. But in Kaiserslautern people profit. They will possibly demand federal money or something for their economic losses. But again thats a LOCAL thing, Budanski.

no, millions of dollars in taxes is not just a LOCAL thing, it trickles down to thousands of workers everywhere in every trade employed by the government. oh and all those multi million dollar business contracts we pulled and re routed at the start of the war from germany by huge neocolonial US companies to other countries in poland, romania, britain and canada, is that local also? just curious how many "local" hits in billions would you like to take in order for the "whole" to feel the effect?


I have no problem with that issue. If the USA want to redeploy their troops, I can live with it.

im sure you could since you dont make a living off of it or feed your children off of it. of course, those thousands of workers who depend on the billions will just apply for government aid which lacks the billions so in turn another round of government spending will be cut which in turn effects those government contracts or government employed. maybe that wont be local?

[Durandal]

Durandal:
heavy drinking?
I'm in!!!
:)

Do you realy want to make that only thing Durandal will remember from visit in Poland was headache... :)

I think you guys need to see me drink before asking me that.

If it is a 5AM type bender, like we do when I go up to Chicago...well, you got me there. I will not be coherent till Noon or 1 PM. If it is the sort of 2 AM drunk, then I am at the battle field tour the next morning.

Trust me, most of my family is Scottish and German Roman Catholic...we drink.

;)

On an analytical social view...

It is the one thing I can find in common with folks, right away, in other nations. People tend to get a bit friendlier and talk more after a couple beers...or shots. And having been to this bar in Chicago recently...nothing but hot Polish women, I can only say, that if these people are a sample for the fun I would have, then I am most certainly in.

The Polish rock, what can I say.

The POINT is, that if any of you live in Poland, in the cities we might visit, I'll buy you a round. Now, you can question my drinking habits are join me in a cheer! :D

Have a good weekend people! This one I will spend sober. :|

[Marmot1]

Glad to see us sending money somewhere OTHER than the near east.

Now, what can we do to get the Alps to move into Poland? That way troops dont' have to spend an extra 6 hours in a bus to ski (damn the 12 hour drive to Ski was hell).

well we have moutains in poland too so dont worry about skiing...

[Marmot1]

Durandal:
heavy drinking?
I'm in!!!
:)

Do you realy want to make that only thing Durandal will remember from visit in Poland was headache... :)

I think you guys need to see me drink before asking me that.

If it is a 5AM type bender, like we do when I go up to Chicago...well, you got me there. I will not be coherent till Noon or 1 PM. If it is the sort of 2 AM drunk, then I am at the battle field tour the next morning.

Trust me, most of my family is Scottish and German Roman Catholic...we drink.

;)

On an analytical social view...

It is the one thing I can find in common with folks, right away, in other nations. People tend to get a bit friendlier and talk more after a couple beers...or shots. And having been to this bar in Chicago recently...nothing but hot Polish women, I can only say, that if these people are a sample for the fun I would have, then I am most certainly in.

The Polish rock, what can I say.

The POINT is, that if any of you live in Poland, in the cities we might visit, I'll buy you a round. Now, you can question my drinking habits are join me in a cheer! :D

Have a good weekend people! This one I will spend sober. :|

Well if you buy a round... I live in warsaw :-) just say when and where... but it is very possible that i will be in US this summer... so drop me a note when you want to visit poland I can take you on clubbing in warsaw ;-) if I will be on place. and of course I can buy you second round :-)

marmot1@wp.pl :-) if you relly want to come just mail me before :lol:

[tony6]

Yeah-You will have fun in Poland for sure:)
BTW: I live in Warsaw too.