Ex-U.S. Arms Hunter Says Everyone Wrong on WMD

[scoone]

Wed January 28, 2004 05:07 PM ET

WASHINGTON (*******) - Former chief U.S. weapons hunter David Kay said on Wednesday he and everyone else who had believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction had been wrong and that his search found no evidence of biological or chemical arms.

"Let me begin by saying, we were almost all wrong, and I certainly include myself here," Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing in his first public appearance on Capitol Hill since stepping down last week.

"I believe that the effort that has been directed to this point has been sufficiently intense that it is highly unlikely that there were large stockpiles of deployed militarized chemical and biological weapons there," he told the hearing.

Republican senators emphasized that the hunt for banned weapons, the central argument for the U.S.-led war against Iraq, had not ended and something could still turn up.

Democrats read quote after quote from top administration officials saying that Iraq had such weapons.

Democrats trying to unseat Republican President Bush in elections this year are trying to make a case that the White House exaggerated intelligence to go to war.

"I think the administration owes the entire country a full explanation on this war -- not just their exaggerations but on the failure of American intelligence. They are responsible for it. It failed," Sen. John Kerry, who is running for president, said on a campaign trip.

Kay said European countries, including those that did not support the war like France and Germany, had also believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. "It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing," he said.

He said the search should continue in Iraq, but that some questions would likely remain unanswered and ambiguous.

Kay also disputed accusations that intelligence analysts were pressured to reach conclusions to fit the White House political agenda, saying not one had told him that.

"I had innumerable analysts who came to me in apology that the world that we were finding was not the world that they had thought existed and that they had estimated," Kay said. They cited the limited data on which they had based conclusions, he said.

Kay said there was a clear need for better intelligence capabilities.
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, a Virginia Republican, said it was too early to come to conclusions about the hunt for banned weapons.

"If, ultimately, the findings of the Iraq Survey Group do differ from the prewar assessments of our intelligence community, differ from assessments of the United Nations, differ from assessments of intelligence services of many other nations, indeed that is cause for concern," he said.

"But we are not there yet in terms of the totality of fact on which to draw such serious conclusions," Warner said.

Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the panel, said the administration before the war had made "numerous, vivid, unqualified statements" that Iraq had actual weapons of mass destruction.

"The case for war was Iraq's possession, production, deployment and stockpiling of weapons of mass destruction," Levin said. "A different case for war against Iraq can be made, but the case which the administration made to the American people was the presence of actual weapons of mass destruction." [/quote]
http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=S2FOIOGSMU2RCCRBAEZSFEY?type=topNews&storyID=4232922

[Aegirsson]

I feel ashamed for all the americans who believe that this war is about wmd.

[Skaman]

I feel ashamed for all the americans who believe that this war is about wmd.

silly, its about international security!

[Aegirsson]

You seem to forget freedom of speech and liberty, you anti-american!

[Skaman]

You seem to forget freedom of speech and liberty, you anti-american!

oops.

[usa320]

Dicmus your a faggot.

And im not talking about MiG-19's. Or a bundle of sticks.

[Skaman]

Dicmus your a faggot.

And im not talking about MiG-19's. Or a bundle of sticks.


Thats fine.

[George W. Bush]

So now you're going to blame President Bush for acting on bad intelligence?

If that's the best you can think off to unseat Bush you're noti going to make any progress.

[budanski]

I feel ashamed for all the americans who believe that this war is about wmd.

Seems you europeans seem to think the war was nothing, but... :roll:

[mocking_loudly_died]

Don't you idiots know anything.

The war was blatantly about getting Saddam to stop writing episodes of The Bold and the Beautiful.

"Oh Ridge don't tell me you sold out our grand imperialist nation for three sweet Arabian wives!"

“Get off my case Mossimo or I’ll inject Sarin into your tumor filled stomach and throw crippled children in front of trains....."

[Whistler]

David Kay is also saying that hes found that elements of the weapons program were exported to Syria, but you don't see the Left trumpeting THAT part of his report around...

Selective reading?

[Tane Angle]

I hate to be making two such serious posts in one day, but can we lay off the genocidal slurs? By the way, this is my first time quoting these rules, because I don't like acting like anything other than an equal guest on Hood’s message board.

The Forum Rules

The Don'ts
2. Don't use excessive profanity.
4. Don't use racial slurs.

Here’s a free history lesson on the word faggot.

Faggots were not just any bundles of sticks; they refer specifically to the ones laid beneath and around people about to be burned at the stake; hence the use of the word to describe homo******s. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of homo******s, died such horrible deaths simply for being homo******. That’s like calling a Jew a “gas chamber” or a Christian a “Cross” or “nail through hands.” The early Church was nearly wiped out that way.

I’m sorry, bud, but well, this is a military-related message board, and in the military, there’s no choice of who is defended. It’s all Americans or none. And a service member has to be ok with everyone, or they might want to find a new job, as unit cohesion relies on not having such intolerance in the ranks.

On a side note, governments and defense systems rely on accountability. If the DCI isn’t up to par, Bush should have canned Tenet. Bush didn’t. So yeah, I blame Bush. Superiors can’t do it all, but they do have a responsibility to surround themselves with capable subordinates who will get the job done. Otherwise, the system fails. By the way, I hold the same accountability towards Democrats. I hold my people at work to that standard too, not because I particularly enjoy it but because it's the only way to get things done. My boss does it to me, too.

Sorry for the rant. Have a good one all, and just some thoughts…

[Sir Zach of R.]

I don't like gays anyway so I don't really give a damn.

[DE_Six]

.

Sorry for the rant. Have a good one all, and just some thoughts…

Don't be sorry. You're doing a fine job as a moderator.

[Tane Angle]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I just hope that you're aware that in pretty much any line of work, especially the military (regardless of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, which can't last for much longer), one has to work with them, even live with them. By most estimates, 10% of the human population is homo******, though not all express it. Imagine if a store stopped selling to 10% of it's customers, who then told their families and friends. That's just not very profitable business, much less legal.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[farmgirl]

I don't like gays anyway so I don't really give a damn.

Zach,
When you make ignorant comments such as that, you might as well hold up a big sign that says... "look at me, I'm a bigot and a moron."

Personally, I don't care if you like gays; there are small minded people all over the world, but keep your "messages of hate" to yourself.

[farmgirl]

.

Sorry for the rant. Have a good one all, and just some thoughts…

Don't be sorry. You're doing a fine job as a moderator.

You're absolutely right DE6.... Tane (and Beowulf) both do a fine job of moderating. We're fortunate to have them around here. :D Hood... Thank you for the board and for everything you do to keep it running so smoothly. :hug:

[Tane Angle]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, you two. :D All credit goes to Hood and Beowulf. :D

[mocking_loudly_died]

I sometimes wear girls clothes, do you guys still like me?

My thighs rock.

[George W. Bush]

I walk down the beach, look at another guy's hairy ass in a Speedo, and think to myself, "Man, I gotta get me some that fine hairy ass!"

[California Joe]

So Mocking........How YOU doin?

[farmgirl]

So Mocking........How YOU doin?

Joe... I can take being thrown over for another woman.... but Mocking? :roll:
Where's TP when I need him??? p-)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Here’s a free history lesson on the word faggot.

Faggots were not just any bundles of sticks; they refer specifically to the ones laid beneath and around people about to be burned at the stake; hence the use of the word to describe homo******s. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of homo******s, died such horrible deaths simply for being homo******. That’s like calling a Jew a “gas chamber” or a Christian a “Cross” or “nail through hands.” The early Church was nearly wiped out that way.

While I agree that we should keep away from name calling etc - man, I don't know where you found this word origin of "faggot". From what I can tell, it's completely fabricated and has become sort of a homo****** urban legend, if you will.

The best reputable source I could find lists the origin as :


The most common explanation for the homo****** epithet goes like this: Faggot is a bundle of sticks, from the Italian. In the late 16th century, the word acquired the sense of a woman, especially a shrewish one. The sense probably comes from the idea of a faggot being a burden or baggage (not unlike the modern ball and chain). Jump to the US, circa 1917, and the word transferred to effeminate or homo****** men.

Some suggest that it might be influenced by the Yiddish word fagele, literally meaning little bird. I wouldn't dismiss a possible Yiddish influence out of hand, but it seems less likely than the standard explanation. There is an awful big gap in the history, and a Yiddishism appearing in the early 20th century US is plausible. But I don't know of any evidence to support it. And it could have gone the other way--the homo****** sense of the Yiddish word may have derived from the English faggot. Although, I'll defer to a Yiddish scholar on this last.

or another..


The term faggot or fagot, meaning bundle of sticks, shows up around 1300 in English. It almost certainly came from Old French, possibly going back to Greek phakelos. Since those bundles of sticks were mainly used for fires, it's not surprising that the term came to mean burning sticks. Then there was that nasty business in medieval times where heretics were burned at the stake. Some later cites indicate heretics who repented and were spared a fiery death had to wear a picture of a faggot on their sleeve to show what might have been their fate. But no print evidence exists that homo******s were referred to as faggots before the twentieth century, with the origin definitely in the U.S., not Britain.

So much BS info out there that it's nearly impossible to get a straight story. But as a middle aged guy who's been around a while...I had never heard of the "throwing another gay guy on the fire" story.

But if a lie gets told enough, it eventually becomes "truth". OMG I've devoted way to much time to this already...

[Tane Angle]

Well, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong. That's why every so often I make comments like "but what do I know, find out for yourself." However, your sources not only don't come with a URL, but they also use words like "I" and "nasty business." Neither one is typical of a high-grade piece, but they might very well be atypical and still high grade. As a past-middle age man who's been around for a while too, I have heard it. Whether or not I heard the right story, can we agree that's it's a word best not used?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Sir Zach of R.]

I don't like gays anyway so I don't really give a damn.

Zach,
When you make ignorant comments such as that, you might as well hold up a big sign that says... "look at me, I'm a bigot and a moron."

Personally, I don't care if you like gays; there are small minded people all over the world, but keep your "messages of hate" to yourself.

It's not that I'm a bigot, but I can be a bit of a moron, it just goes against the moral values that I hold dear to my heart.....and my religion. So therefor, I still don't give a damn.

[martinexsquaddie]

so just one question
is Homo******ity worse in Gods sight than say eating shellfish?(lev 11:10)
or is it at the same level or what
please adivse cause I can't decide to go out for hot bottom love or just some mussels rofl

[Beowulf]

My friend has a digital copy of the unabridged Oxford English Dictionary.
I'll ask him and get back to you...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

so just one question
is Homo******ity worse in Gods sight than say eating shellfish?(lev 11:10)
or is it at the same level or what
please adivse cause I can't decide to go out for hot bottom love or just some mussels rofl

Well, not knowing God personally I really can't say. But I do have an official guide to hell, and it's pretty clear where the two would wind up.

Let's see here..mmm...yes, yes shellfish..I'm going to call that "gluttony", since hell doesn't specifically mention kosher laws etc..says here shellfish eaters would wind up at the Gate of Hell, in Circle 3, lying in mud, besieged by snow, hail and filthy water, and guarded by Cerebus. Very nice, and with convenient access to the lustful, sullen and angry.

And your homo******s...well "sodomites" anyhow, gosh they're way down in Circle 7, by the Transition to Lower Hell, and with a lovely view of Hitler. Ooh, and it says they have their choice of eternal torments: stretched on burning sand, running on burning sand, or huddled on burning sand. Sort of like being in Iraq.

Personally, I'll go with the shellfish.

[TriggerPuller]

So Mocking........How YOU doin?

Joe... I can take being thrown over for another woman.... but Mocking? :roll:
Where's TP when I need him??? p-)Turn around!! Iam right here!

TP

P.S. anybody need their ass kicked around here today?