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dr_newstead
10-02-2005, 02:14 PM
It seems that there are 3 windproof smocks in circulation within the British Forces; the SAS smock, the RM's Arctic smock and the ripstop Arctic smock.

SAS smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr279.html
Arctic smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr869.html
ripstop Arctic smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr548.html

I have the Arctic smock (rank-slides on front & back, wired hood), but it's getting a bit faded now. It's still in good nick, but I wouldn't mind getting a new one, as the one I have was Grade 1 when it arrived (as seen in that link).

The unknown factor for me is the ripstop one. I've seen pics of it being used by RMC's, and I wanted to know if it was preferred these days, or if the classic Arctic smock was still the better of the two. I know ripstop has a bad rep, but it is windproof and ripstop, so I wasn't sure if it might be the better deal (like those Propper BDU's).

I was also looking at the Para smock, but a few people have said it's not all that, so I've discounted that here.

Thoughts?

cheers,
Doc
moonmonkey
10-02-2005, 02:50 PM
The para smocks aren't great when compared to sas smocks in my eyes - id go for the artic smock, seems to do the job best.
www.sasskit.co.uk do good 'modifications' to smocks to let them suit what you want and will customise your smock if you send it in.
Royal
10-02-2005, 04:05 PM
It seems that there are 3 windproof smocks in circulation within the British Forces; the SAS smock, the RM's Arctic smock and the ripstop Arctic smock.

SAS smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr279.html
Arctic smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr869.html
ripstop Arctic smock - http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr548.html

I have the Arctic smock (rank-slides on front & back, wired hood), but it's getting a bit faded now. It's still in good nick, but I wouldn't mind getting a new one, as the one I have was Grade 1 when it arrived (as seen in that link).

The unknown factor for me is the ripstop one. I've seen pics of it being used by RMC's, and I wanted to know if it was preferred these days, or if the classic Arctic smock was still the better of the two. I know ripstop has a bad rep, but it is windproof and ripstop, so I wasn't sure if it might be the better deal (like those Propper BDU's).

I was also looking at the Para smock, but a few people have said it's not all that, so I've discounted that here.

Thoughts?

cheers,
Doc

The ripstop 'Arctic' isn't issued (except in desert DPM) - which may be why the description doesn't say genuine.

The pics you have seen will be of the CS95 with hood attached.
Sabre
10-02-2005, 04:19 PM
I prefer the 'non-arctic' windproofs, simply because the hood doesn't get in the way. I think Royal's right, they don't issue ripstop windproofs. There might be some with 95 buttons, but I haven't seen them.

I don't think much of para smocks, but paras do. I suppose it's because they're paras? :|
Para
10-02-2005, 04:37 PM
Well as an ex para I used to like that old smock, it was far better than the BD.
dr_newstead
10-02-2005, 07:15 PM
I've never worn the Para smock, and I was very interested in it, but a couple of people who've been through P-Company told me it wasn't that great. But then, I'll have a couple (yourself included) who tell me it is, so I guess it;s up to me decide in the end. I'd probably still like one for my collection though :)

SASS don't mod other smocks alas, only what you buy off of them. It makes that quite clear on the site. Shame, but I suppose business is business.
DeltaWhisky58
10-03-2005, 06:49 AM
Well as an ex para I used to like that old smock, it was far better than the BD.


I've never worn the Para smock, and I was very interested in it, but a couple of people who've been through P-Company told me it wasn't that great. But then, I'll have a couple (yourself included) who tell me it is, so I guess it;s up to me decide in the end. I'd probably still like one for my collection though :)

SASS don't mod other smocks alas, only what you buy off of them. It makes that quite clear on the site. Shame, but I suppose business is business.

I think perhaps the two of you are talking at cross purpsoes here. Para I would guess is referring to the Denison smock, which, for its time - either the wartime versions or the 1959 pattern - were way ahead of what was generally on issue, i.e. Battledress. The Denison smock was intended for use as an other garment over BD/Woolley pulley etc., but is crude by today's standards.

I would venture to say that dr_newstead refers to the DPM Para smock which is little more than a modified 1972 pattern DPM smock and thus way inferior to the various windproof smocks now available being neither showerproof or windproof. I wore the '72 pattern smock when in service, and believe me it was awful having worn it in all weathers, however the Arctic windproof for example is a superb garment especially if used as part of a good layer system of clothing.
Bulabash
10-03-2005, 07:44 AM
I use a ARKTIS sniper smock now (im NOT a sniper myself but i find the million pockets quite good to carry all my equipment etc)

http://www.arktisltd.co.uk/Products/1017_SharpshooterWindproof.htm

Edited for azerty qwerty changeover :roll:
Beer Monster
10-03-2005, 09:21 AM
Here is the new issue SAS type smock:- 95 Smock Woodland DP (http://www.army-surplus.co.uk/Merchant2/4.13/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=JKT50&Category_Code=J) (not ripstop)

From all accounts meant to be quite good. Although lacking a FFD pocket?

I've got the SASS Force 8 Smock and would highly reccomend it. Has lasted me years and still going strong although having said that wool cuffs are a bit of a pain during high summer as they cut down on one venting option ......... but are a God send in winter!
Steve Andrews
10-03-2005, 11:32 AM
I'm not familiar with the newer smocks as I left in 98, but in my day the SAS and RM Arctic smock were great pieces of kit.
The non-issue SASS smock also has a good reputation.

The Para smock is double-lined so it is hot in warm weather and takes a long time to dry when it gets wet.

I don't wear DPM anymore and my smock of choice is now a Ventile smock made by Snowsled.
Para
10-04-2005, 08:26 AM
DeltaWhiskey.....Well I was pre 1959, and we, at that time found it was handy bit of kit and was far better in those days than any thing else around. It was very comfortable and practicable and those large pockets were a god send.
coverteye
10-04-2005, 08:44 AM
I always preferred the Arctic smock. The wired hood kept the crap from going down your neck when you were building an O.P. (Observation Post).
dr_newstead
10-04-2005, 11:08 AM
Went for an SASS smock in the end. They can mod a little hood-retainer on their for me, which is handy.

Thanks for all the input, and I'm certainly not binning the Arctic smock anytime soon as it's still a great piece of kit :)
EsoognomEhT
10-04-2005, 04:17 PM
Here is the new issue SAS type smock:- 95 Smock Woodland DP (http://www.army-surplus.co.uk/Merchant2/4.13/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=JKT50&Category_Code=J) (not ripstop)

From all accounts meant to be quite good. Although lacking a FFD pocket?

I've got the SASS Force 8 Smock and would highly reccomend it. Has lasted me years and still going strong although having said that wool cuffs are a bit of a pain during high summer as they cut down on one venting option ......... but are a God send in winter!


aaah I saw one of those (on a cadet officer no less :roll: ) and it looked pretty funky, padded arms + useful pockets
Royal
10-07-2005, 10:51 AM
Here is the new issue SAS type smock:- 95 Smock Woodland DP (http://www.army-surplus.co.uk/Merchant2/4.13/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=JKT50&Category_Code=J) (not ripstop)

From all accounts meant to be quite good. Although lacking a FFD pocket?

I've got the SASS Force 8 Smock and would highly reccomend it. Has lasted me years and still going strong although having said that wool cuffs are a bit of a pain during high summer as they cut down on one venting option ......... but are a God send in winter!


aaah I saw one of those (on a cadet officer no less :roll: ) and it looked pretty funky, padded arms + useful pockets

Not seen that version on issue anywhere and the last 7 of the NSN are nowhere near any of my smocks (not that I'm an expert on NSNs). That said it looks exactly the same as the desert version we were given last year.

The arms aren't padded.
EsoognomEhT
10-07-2005, 04:57 PM
well, the one this guy had on was just like the one in the link and had padded arms..customised maybe, there's no end to what those crazy acf people do.

It wont have been an issue item obviously unless he had some mates in the regs
Beer Monster
10-10-2005, 07:47 AM
Not seen that version on issue anywhere and the last 7 of the NSN are nowhere near any of my smocks (not that I'm an expert on NSNs). That said it looks exactly the same as the desert version we were given last year.

The arms aren't padded.

I think the last NSN numbers are in relation to the size of the garment? They have been issued to a limited number of people up here, although I think it's only those who know the stock number and are "close personal friend" of the storeman!

I think Mongoose is talking about the Force 8 smock. It has padded forearms, is made of windproof ripstop material and has a few extra pockets that are indeed very handy. One of them is the perfect size for a hip flask, bonus.

I think that the Force 8 smocks were on issue to some of the first deployments to Bosnia along with the first pro-boots (I was told this although I've never met anyone that had thiers issued so it could be a load of b*ollocks!).
RecceGuy
10-10-2005, 03:17 PM
I got one of those smocks about 2 months ago and it is indeed the dogs nads. The material seems to be a thicker version of the older arctic windproof made better. The 95 pattern buttons are a good addition saving you the need to tape your buttons with black nasty. Not sure if they're coming on general issue but our clothing storeman has got enough for the whole unit, albeit in large only, but hey what use is a smock if it's not baggy!
EsoognomEhT
10-11-2005, 02:13 PM
Well, I have a new job for this week...entering stock numbers into the lovely UNICOM piece of crap in the stores! And being quite bored and very sad I entered the stock number of that smock into it and nothing came up. Not sure what that's proved, but it certainly brightened up my day!
Beer Monster
10-12-2005, 07:45 AM
Well, I have a new job for this week...entering stock numbers into the lovely UNICOM piece of crap in the stores! And being quite bored and very sad I entered the stock number of that smock into it and nothing came up. Not sure what that's proved, but it certainly brightened up my day!

Try 8415 99 573 5262 it should be for a size 170/104
Royal
10-13-2005, 11:43 AM
I think that the Force 8 smocks were on issue to some of the first deployments to Bosnia along with the first pro-boots (I was told this although I've never met anyone that had thiers issued so it could be a load of b*ollocks!).

Pro Boots were, Force 8's weren't (when I was there, which was most of the 90's - or at least that's the way it seemed)
Jean
10-13-2005, 12:29 PM
When talkng about smocks... anybody knows i some smocks are manufactured in woodland camo?? I love the design but DPM aint for me
RecceGuy
10-13-2005, 02:06 PM
Pro Boots were, Force 8's weren't (when I was there, which was most of the 90's - or at least that's the way it seemed)

Yeah got my first pro-boots out in Bosnia, top class boots for issue ones. never got a smock issued though. Did a tour in '94 '96 & '98, where were you at Royal??
Royal
10-14-2005, 04:06 AM
Yeah got my first pro-boots out in Bosnia, top class boots for issue ones. never got a smock issued though. Did a tour in '94 '96 & '98, where were you at Royal??

Sarajevo, GV, Vitez, Foca, Gorazde, Maglaj, Travnik, TSG, Bugonjo, Laktasi, Drvar, Banja Luka, Prijedor, Tuzla, MG, Bijeljina, Doboj and a few others...
RecceGuy
10-14-2005, 03:47 PM
Sarajevo, GV, Vitez, Foca, Gorazde, Maglaj, Travnik, TSG, Bugonjo, Laktasi, Drvar, Banja Luka, Prijedor, Tuzla, MG, Bijeljina, Doboj and a few others...
Haha so just a few places. I was in Tomislavgrad, GV, and Maglaj in '94 so didn't get to see Doboj at that time. Although did visit the Canadians in Visoko. Then Banja Luka in '96 and '98. managed to get attached to the Danes in Valhalla Camp, Doboj so saw Maglaj from the other side of the fence so to speak. Glad thats all finished with. For me anyway.
lambert
10-14-2005, 04:28 PM
sass can make their smock in plenty of different cams, including woodland! personnaly I have one of their smock in french central european cam and I'm very happy with it!
Steve Andrews
10-17-2005, 05:51 PM
When talkng about smocks... anybody knows i some smocks are manufactured in woodland camo?? I love the design but DPM aint for me

Arktis do windproof smocks in woodland pattern.
dr_newstead
10-17-2005, 07:27 PM
I was going to say that, but I think it would have to be a special order, as US Woodland isn't one of the patterns they do as standard (ie, in the catalogue). But I've seen Arktis gear in CADPAT, so it's very likely they've knocked up some kit in US for someone :)