Geatest Helicopter Unit of All Time!!!

[obd]

I just wanted to get peoples opinion on the greatest helocopter unit in history. My vote goes to the South Vietnamese Air Force 219th Special OIperations Squadron, better known as the "Kingbees" of Vietnam war vintage. This unit, with such heroes as Col. Thinh Q. Binh, Lt. Trong Q. Tran, Capt. Nguyen van Tuong, Capt Tuat Nuguyen, Major Thu X. Huynh, and other was responsible for saving the lives of hundreds of SOG units fighting the "secret war" in Laos and Combodia. These brave Vietnamese would often come down to resque endangered SOG teams even when American pilots refused to do so. A not insignificant number of these pilots were killed and wounded. According to one-zero Pat Watkins the single best sentence he could hear after coming under heavy NVA assault was young vietnamese pilot's heavily accented "Kingbee go down now". While this unit was small and many of its ops remain hidden in secrect, the tip of the iceburg that is known about thier exploits and the shear number of American SF vets who unanimously and unequivically say they owe thier very lives to the 219 Vietnamese it sure as hell gets my vote as one of the greatest and most storied helicpter units in history!! Anybody agree or have a better choice?? And nobody say Nigthstalkers!! Haha just kidding.

[NcDeuce]

160th SOAR

The unit is very young, possibly one of the youngest units in the U.S. Army and already has a reputation as the guys to turn to when you need a lift. They began with pilots from the 101st and 229th and some tough times as mid-air refueling and NVGs were experimented with. Many died in before the Group became what it is now, a regiment.

They have been involved in every major operation and countless other black ops.

Who do the 1st SFOD-D, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, and Army SF turn to?

http://www.specwarnet.com/americas/army_mh60_preflight.jpg

http://www.nightstalkers.com/enduring_freedom/CrewChiefwings.jpg

http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/fig/w_fig26b.jpg

http://www.wolftactical.com/images/AH6Jrktshot4.jpg

http://www.specialoperations.com/Aviation/Little_Birds/littlebrd.jpg

[IronHeart_26]

160th SOAR

I agree, but then I am slightly biased when it comes to the hooter brothers.

[Ratamacue]

My vote goes to the 160th SOAR.

[Fox2]

Although I have great respect for what the 160th does, I would have to say the USAF Search and Rescue arms and the US Army's Medevac units.

I believe the medical evacuation business is the oldest the helicopter partakes in. Since the Korean War to today, the Medevacs are still saving lives.

Same with the USAF SAR guys, although they are a bit younger as a unit.

Who does the average G.I., the next door neighbor's kid, or the USAF's pilots turn to when they're in trouble?




http://nyjtimes.com/cover/07-21-03/BlackHawkHelo.jpg

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hh-60g-19990803pj2.jpg

http://www.specwarnet.net/vehicles/Mh60glf.jpg

http://www.benning.army.mil/498th/1stup.jpg

http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/project/cosar-ts/img/Image-HH60G-Pavehawk-Heli-Land.jpg


http://www.sikorsky.com/Images/SAC_Sikorsky_Aircraft_Corporation/US-en/HH60L.jpg

[FallenAngel]

^ agrees. Some medivac pilots are just as talented as any in the 160 SOAR, but they do it without weapons of their own, usually coming in without an element of surprise. That takes a pretty big set of balls.

[fantassin]

A bit of history.

Helicopters in Indochina (1950-54)

The use of helicopters in Indochina in some ways paralleled the conflict in Korea. Nicknamed "ventilators" by the troops they supported, the Hiller 360s and H-23 Ravens, Westland-Sikorsky WS-51s and Sikorsky H-19s were used mainly for casualty evacuation and occasionally to rescue escaped prisoners or aircrews shot down over Viet Minh territory. None had a combat role although, by the final year, there were plans to enlarge the helicopter fleet for such use.

The first two helicopters, Hiller 360 UH-12As bought by the Medical Services, arrived in April 1950 and were assigned to E.L.A. 52 (Air Liaison Flight 52) to supplement the Criquets (French-built Fieseler Storch light planes) used until then. They were used exclusively for CASEVAC missions in southern Annam, Cochinchina and Cambodia. On 16 May, the first evacuation mission was flown by Lieutenant Santini, who had became the first French military helicopter pilot in November 1949. Although he boasted only 28 flying hours in helicopters, he flew two casualties of the 1er BCCP to Saigon in a two-hour flight, one hour of which was in darkness. He was the only helicopter pilot in the whole of Indochina until he was joined by Sergeant Fumat in August 1950.

Among the first handful of pilots, a woman, Captain Valérie André would rapidly become famous. An Army surgeon and qualified parachutist and pilot who had arrived in Indochina in June 1949, she evacuated 165 in 129 helicopter missions flown in 1952-1953 (out of a total of 496 fixed-wing and helicopter missions during her tours) and would later command a casualty evacuation flight. One typical mission occurred on 11 December 1951 when casualties were in urgent need of evacuation from Tu Vu on the Black River. The only available helicopter, stationed near Saigon, was dismantled, flown to Hanoi by a Bristol Freighter and reassembled. Captain André then flew into Tu Vu despite heavy mist and anti-aircraft fire. There, she triaged the casualties, operated on the most pressing cases and then flew the urgent wounded back to Hanoi, two at a time. In 1976, she became the first woman in the French Army to rise to the rank of general.

The arrival of eighteen H19, nicknamed "happy elephants", was a major improvement in capability since the H-19 could carry six wounded and a medical attendant over more than 500 kilometres. At about the same time, the helicopters were transferred from the Armée de l'Air to the Army which formed the first all-helicopter unit in December 1953 : the Groupement des Formations d'Hélicoptères en Indochine (G.F.H.I. - Indochina Helicopter Units Group), itself made up of the 1re and 2e Compagnie d'Hélicoptères d'Evacuations Sanitaires (C.H.E.S. - Medical Evacuation Helicopter Company).

In 1954 alone, helicopters evacuated 6,499 CEFEO wounded from the various battlefields, some flights taking place in darkness. In the early days of Dien Bien Phu, however, three H-19s were destroyed on the ground by Viet Minh 105mm artillery and one was shot down by AA fire despite the red crosses painted boldly on their fuselage sides .

Although the 44 helicopters played no part in actual combat, eleven were lost to enemy action. Despite the technical limits of the early models, the value of these "ventilators" was quickly appreciated. The small number of helicopters evacuated "only" 10,820 CEFEO casualties in 1951-1954 (roughly 1/7th of the total number of evacuations) but it is doubtful that these men could have been saved by any other means.

The potential use of helicopters in combat was not overlooked however and the reinforcements planned for the 1954-1955 campaign included 50 H-19s. On 22 November 1954, the Army formed its own light aviation branch, the Aviation Légère de l'Armée de Terre (ALAT) to operate its own aircraft and helicopters. The veterans of Indochina would form the nucleus of a greatly expanded helicopter force which, over the next eight years, would make the Algerian War the first helicopter war.

[usa320]

I agree, 160th, though the 101st ABN has decent helo detachments.

[MARINO]

I'm agree, but here in spain we have also great pilots,they had this **** of Superpuma and Cougar instead of this sweet blackhawks.
Our pilots wanted him, but our government wanted to buy europena material. what a ****.

[Dennis G]

160th SOAR but its so hard not to say the kingbees. They are Absolutely amazing.You know what I am going to say they are equal #1 because like NcDeuce said possibly one of the youngest units in the U.S. Army yet they have done so much but the stories of the Kingbees are so stunning. You should read up on this unit.

[Merik]

160th SOAR compares nothing to the 1st squadron, 9th Cavalry. Most enemy KIA's were credited to this ultimate airmobile unit in Vietnam throughout the entire war. They also took the most casualties themselves. The deadliest of the 6 troops was A Troop of the 1/9th. This unit was even depicted in the greatest Vietnam movie, Apocalypse Now. The 1/9th saved the Marines up North near the DMZ from getting totally annihilated around 1968 and many other units all across 'Nam.

9th Cav (http://www.***************/9thcav/1stsquad/1stsquadAtroop.html)

9th Cav (http://www.9thcav.com/)

[Armour recon]

Kingbees

[Nizark]

http://www.specwarnet.com/americas/army_mh60_preflight.jpg
wow dig that guy...he put his blood type on his vest. I guess he's expecting the worst

[Merik]

Deeply respecting the services of the 160th, in my own opinion I believe that the only reason why everyone talks about this unit is because they got the **** kicked out of them in Somalia and Afghanistan. There are many other army aviation units that have probably performed missions worthy of bravery and the same courage as those pilots in the NightStalkers, but thats just my two cents.

[NcDeuce]

Task Force Ranger = Troops + Transportation

+ No Armor

+ No Air Support

= Ill-equipped from the start

How many people were killed during the night from...

http://ofp.samren.com/html/Black%20Hawk%20Down.files/ah6-m134.jpg


Afghanistan = Worst terrain imaginable

I believe only 2 or 3 choppers were downed in Enduring Freedom from the regiment.

Iraq = No comment, check out the regular units' crash ratio to the 160th. ;)

[Merik]

Im only taking about the fact that they were caught low and slow in a very, very dangerous area of ops. Having armor and troops on the ground doesnt mean squat to an helo pilot because you dont do ignorant things LIKE being caught low and slow. Granted, air support would have been a very nice thing to have indeed.

Afghanistan, well now there's a real change. NO AIR SUPPORT, BAD INTELLIGENCE OR NONE WHATSOEVER on the LZ's and yes, bad terrain. But that doesnt change the fact they thought they could go in there, unprotected and infiltrate into enemy territory. I dont care if I'm flying into hell and back but by god Im gonna have at least reliable intel on my LZ's and AC-130's or something to give me air support. And the funny thing about this situation was that unlike Somalia, AIR SUPPORT WAS ALL AROUND. All they had to do was get clearance to use it.

As an example, and Im trying to be as calm and polite as I can(especially to any vets here) is Grenada. Rangers went in with A)No air support B) Horrible intel and C) they landed right below an enemy AA position. If they had gunships with them they wouldnt have nearly lost as many helos as they did, but then again they wanted to "infiltrate" with a large number of troops and a/c.

Whooo. Finally got that out of me.

[Fox2]

Iraq = No comment, check out the regular units' crash ratio to the 160th. ;)

And coupled with the fact that the 160th is out doing missions less frequent than the "less glamorous" units? ;)

Medevac units are on call all the time. Same with reconaissance.


The 160th is awesome, but I'm beginning to get turned off by all this "special forces fever" stuff. They are highly trained, highly skilled individuals, but there ARE other units and people out there who sacrifice just as much and show just as much courage.

I think all of our servicemen, whether Special Operations or no, are worthy of praise and gratitude.

[NcDeuce]

The Richmond Hill prison was built on the site of an old fort, overlooking the town of St. George's. The prison, in turn, was overlooked by Fort Frederick, at the time a fully-manned garrison outpost used by the People's Revolutionary Army. Between the two locations was a small valley, and it was through this valley that the assault team would have to fly. Upon arrival at the prison, the helicopters would move to their predestinated location around the facility, slow quickly to a hover, then the teams would immediately fastrope to the ground and execute their assault.

The original plan called for a nine ship flight, ferrying both commandos and elements of Charlie Company, 1/75th Rangers, departing at approximately 0100 hours. Due to chaotic planning and last minute interservice bickering at senior levels, however, they would not leave until 0630, over five hours behind schedule. This meant that instead of racing in to the objective unseen, under cover of darkness, the airmobile assault would take place in the stark light of the rising sun. Any enemy defenders (already alerted due to a the fact that the conventional invasion had begun hours earlier) would have the advantage in defense. Still, had the pre-assault intelligence of lightly-armed prison guards at the objective been correct, this situation may not have been as disastrous as it would prove to be.

When the nine Black Hawks raced toward the prison, however, it was clear that intelligence had failed them. Two enemy gun emplacements, which intel had not predicted, were visible on a ridge approximately 150 feet higher than the prison - a perfect location to engage any forces trying to land nearby. At home flying at night, the darkly-painted helicopters stood out clearly in the morning sunlight. Enemy gunners were able to acquire the helicopters visually and took advantage of the opportunity. As the first flight of commandos and Rangers approached, they were immediately taken under fire from the ZSU-23-2 (twin 23mm) guns at medium to close range. In the first volley of AAA gunfire, one Black Hawk was shot down as it raced along the coast. Due to the heavy volume of AAA being directed at them, it quickly became clear that this was virtually impossible without putting all involved at extreme, and unacceptable, risk. With close air support aircraft engaged at other locations across the island, elimination of the defenses was impossible - despite valiant attempts at providing suppressive fire by 160th Black Hawk pilots and crewmen. The stricken flight could do nothing but abort the assault and head back to base. This mission would be attempted once again shortly after, however it would prove equally unsuccessful.

At Fort Rupert, however, the situation was much different. Arriving by helicopter, troopers assaulted the complex and rounded up their quarry quickly, without sustaining casualties. Their mission completed, the team called for extraction from the 160th who arrived and transported both the commandos and the detainees to the USS Guam offshore for questioning and formal processing by officials.


Grenada was a clusterf*ck but a necessary clusterf*ck. We learned a lot, joint-branch service missions that sort of thing. But you can't put the blame on the pilots...they're told what to do and they do it. BTW, I heard the Black Hawks that flew that doomed mission were from the 101st, then I heard they were a part of the 160th. Bad planning/intel, so I put the blame on the brass!

[NcDeuce]

Iraq = No comment, check out the regular units' crash ratio to the 160th. ;)

And coupled with the fact that the 160th is out doing missions less frequent than the "less glamorous" units? ;)

Medevac units are on call all the time. Same with reconaissance.


The 160th is awesome, but I'm beginning to get turned off by all this "special forces fever" stuff. They are highly trained, highly skilled individuals, but there ARE other units and people out there who sacrifice just as much and show just as much courage.

I think all of our servicemen, whether Special Operations or no, are worthy of praise and gratitude.

Good point. p-)

[budanski]

My in-laws used to own a popular Vietnamese night club in the '80s called the QueenBee. (*imitates California Joe) Just sayin'

[IronHeart_26]

Iraq = No comment, check out the regular units' crash ratio to the 160th. ;)

And coupled with the fact that the 160th is out doing missions less frequent than the "less glamorous" units? ;)

Medevac units are on call all the time. Same with reconaissance.


The 160th is awesome, but I'm beginning to get turned off by all this "special forces fever" stuff. They are highly trained, highly skilled individuals, but there ARE other units and people out there who sacrifice just as much and show just as much courage.

I think all of our servicemen, whether Special Operations or no, are worthy of praise and gratitude.

The 160th is on call at all times also. They keep a bag packed and ready. It doesn't matter where they are or what they are doing....when they get the call they go, they do their job and they come home.

And as far as them not going out on missions as often as regular army aviation units,well, this past year has been anything but less frequent missions. Try telling the people at home waiting for them that they go out less frequently than others....go ahead tell the people who have no idea where their soldiers are or when they might be coming back.

I support the whole army, and I too believe they are all worthy of praise and gratitude. But, I tend to put the majority of my support and prayers where my heart is....where ever that may be.

[Royal]

845 (Commando) Naval Air Squadron - nothing like as sexy as the 160th (they only fly SeaKings), but they've dug me out of the s**t on more than one occasion, which is more than I can say about the RAF.

[marktigger]

Mates in the provance loved it when there was a junglie Sqn in Aldergrove the Navy pilots would pick up almost 100% of the time no matter what the weather conditions unlike the Crab air guys who could be a nightmare in deterioting weather.

[oldsoak]

FAA - Fly Anywhere Anytime.

[11F5S]

What in the world is a "Geatest Helicopter"?

As far as the greatest helicopter unit of all time have you all considered units such as the 282nd AHC, USMC helo units such as VMO 6, or the Aviation Battalions of the 101st Abn Div who flew both slicks and snakes.
And don't forget the Dustoff guys or the Loach drivers ...they earned their wings every day.

These guys pretty much wrote the book on the subject.

The ARVN Kingbees certainly earned their spot in in the list ...flying those big old Choctaws.

Who's the greatest? That is a question that really can't be answered.

[NcDeuce]

Battalion named top combat aviators

As troops from the 101st Aviation "Attack" Brigade are scheduled to return from Iraq today, one of its battalions received the top combat aviation honor of 2003 while serving in the Middle East.

Aviators of 1st Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, were awarded the Parker Award on Dec. 19 at Fort Rucker, Ala.

The "Expect No Mercy" battalion is one of three attack helicopter battalions assigned to the 101st Aviation Brigade at Fort Campbell. In addition to 1st battalion, 2nd, 3rd and 6th battalions and 2-17th Cavalry (Kiowa Warriors) OH-58D are also under the wing of the 101st Brigade. The 1-101st was last posted in Kirkuk and Qayyarah-West, Iraq, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The 1-101 Aviation's first combat mission was a night attack deep in Iraq against one of Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard forces in late March. The mission was a success, setting the conditions for the 3rd Infantry Division to continue their attack north toward Baghdad, according to the award citation.

In early April, the battalion was given the task to conduct a movement against more of the Republican Guard forces. The battalion successfully employed direct and indirect fires against the enemy protecting the western flank of the 3rd Infantry Division as they entered the city limits of Baghdad.

Later, the battalion deployed two attack helicopter companies from Qayyarah-West Airfield to Kirkuk Airbase, Iraq. The battalion has provided continuous support with one company to the 173rd Airborne Brigade while the second company supported the 1st and 3rd Brigade Combat Teams of the 4th Infantry Division as well as serving in a division reserve capacity.

The battalion conducted a myriad of reconnaissance and security missions and raids to support the destruction or capture of specified targets, and Quick Reaction Force missions to facilitate various infantry operations.

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/news/stories/20040202/localnews/335423-118248.jpg
Lt. Col. Doug Gabram, left, outgoing battalion commander, turns over the unit May 18 to Lt. Col. Mike Clawson in front of an AH-64D Longbow helicopter display.

[cazador]

In Colombia we do our best with what we have. Its common and usual to do gunfire supports, medevacs, air assaults, anything and everything on the Huey II's.
http://groups.msn.com/AviacionMilitarColombiana/chakal71.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=200

[Rilence]

i'd go for the the 160th soar what unit do you want sending in your small spec ops team deep into enemy territory? a highly trained unit that risk their lives everyday non other then the best of the best the armys 160th soar NSDQ! :)

[Merik]

I know Im contradicting myself by saying this but honestly, there is no way in hell you can compare helicopter units period. They basically all have different missions and priorities so almost no unit is alike in what they do. Same thing with comparing all the different branches of the military. There different so you cant compare them and say "Who or what is the greatest."