View Full Version : HVO video/croat-muslim war in B&H
Beagle
10-03-2005, 10:52 AM
I've uploaded video showing fighting between Hrvatsko Vijece Obrane(Croatian Council of Defence) and Army B&H. It's 10 minutes long and has some interesting scenes. Not all scenes are just fighting.
http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/5372/bscap0007th.jpg http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/5518/bscap0012sd.jpg
Video is a capture from a TV show and is being commented by croatian general Tihomir Blaskic
(who is he? what did he do? see here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tihomir_Bla%C5%A1ki%C4%87 )
And to make it more interesting for you all, I've made english subtitles so you can understand what is Blaskic talking.
DISCLAMER: I did my best to make subtitles and translate it for you. There are probably a lot of bad grammar spelling, but what the hell(don't worry, you'll understand it all) p-)
P.S. Flamers, go away! :slap:
Link to video: http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=275IDBB5ANA1P2SB7Q0MPM7WB0
Link to subtitles: http://rapidshare.de/files/5828389/HVO_Travnik_-_Vitez.zip.html
Just unzip it into same folder where the video is. I've tested it in BS Player, works fine.
Cheers ;)
Andreas
10-03-2005, 11:09 AM
IBTL.
Cheers
Andreas
Upfrontreporting
10-03-2005, 12:09 PM
Downloading right now.
Your Rapidshare link is not working.
Beagle
10-03-2005, 12:11 PM
Your Rapidshare link is not working.
It's working ;)
Quoting Rapidshare:
You want to download a file. Please scroll down to choose FREE or PREMIUM-download.
Just click 'free' button and you'll see link for download...
Upfrontreporting
10-03-2005, 12:14 PM
I tried that and it came up with ZIP-file the size of about 4 kb.
Beagle
10-03-2005, 12:19 PM
That's it. You have to unzip it. I had to zip it because most online services for sharing don't recognize 'weird' extensions like this one(.srt)
Damn. I was there on Croatian side, my and some other units were sent there to help out Croats. Cool vid!
Beagle
10-03-2005, 06:02 PM
Where? Around Kiseljak?
No, that was to deep into their territory and we didn't really trust them. It was near Travnik and Vitez. My unit in particular was fighting Muslims while Croats were reatreating over Vlasic. I remember seeing some Croats with Kokarda (Double-Head Eagle) and Sahovnica next to each other on their hats and berrets. :lol: If we allowed Muslims to defeat them war for us would be over, cause then they would be fighting each other, and we could just chill untill someone wins, but our political leadership was too stupid to realize that. :( Well thanks fo the video. It certainly does bring some memories. :D
No, that was to deep into their territory and we didn't really trust them. It was near Travnik and Vitez. My unit in particular was fighting Muslims while Croats were reatreating over Vlasic. I remember seeing some Croats with Kokarda (Double-Head Eagle) and Sahovnica next to each other on their hats and berrets. :lol:
Unluckily you don't have photo of that, because If you had any you would be famous.
If we allowed Muslims to defeat them war for us would be over, cause then they would be fighting each other, and we could just chill untill someone wins, but our political leadership was too stupid to realize that. :( Well thanks fo the video. It certainly does bring some memories. :D
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army, they become stronger and stronger, and highly motivated. You liked peace with HVO cos it alloved your forces to regroup on muslim fronts, and by helping HVO you wanted to destroy HVO and ABH cooperation, cos there was parts of Bosnia where they fought together even in time of croatian - muslim war in middle bosna. (Bosnian Posavina forinstance)
Inquisitor
10-04-2005, 09:12 AM
No, that was to deep into their territory and we didn't really trust them. It was near Travnik and Vitez. My unit in particular was fighting Muslims while Croats were reatreating over Vlasic. I remember seeing some Croats with Kokarda (Double-Head Eagle) and Sahovnica next to each other on their hats and berrets. :lol:
Unluckily you don't have photo of that, because If you had any you would be famous.
If we allowed Muslims to defeat them war for us would be over, cause then they would be fighting each other, and we could just chill untill someone wins, but our political leadership was too stupid to realize that. :( Well thanks fo the video. It certainly does bring some memories. :D
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army, they become stronger and stronger, and highly motivated. You liked peace with HVO cos it alloved your forces to regroup on muslim fronts, and by helping HVO you wanted to destroy HVO and ABH cooperation, cos there was parts of Bosnia where they fought together even in time of croatian - muslim war in middle bosna. (Bosnian Posavina forinstance)
I love you
oh about the video,cool footage.I don't agree on some things, but I won't start a debate about the war with balkanoids...
again,thx for the video ;)
Lokos
10-04-2005, 12:50 PM
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army
... We fought 'Muslims' for the better part of four years. I don't understand your comment. In fact, we resisted highly successfully even when the arms balance (ammunition, logistics and manpower wise) turned against us by a rather significant margin in 1994.
Lokos
shadower
10-04-2005, 01:23 PM
Here's little info from Croat web site I found on that time of fighting late 1993 early 1994.
Operations,
September 1993 - February 1994
The Muslim offensive in central Bosnia continued through the fall of 1993 into the winter of 1994. The increasingly desperate HVO defenders barely managed to stave off each successive ABiH assault. The February 23, 1994, cease-fire associated with the Washington agreements and the end of open warfare between Muslims and Croats in central Bosnia came just in time: the HVO defenders were exhausted, and a final Muslim triumph was perhaps only weeks or even days away.
Continuation of the ABiH Offensive in the Vitez-Busovaca Area
In September, 1993, Muslim forces made yet another strong attempt to cut the main road through the Lasva Valley. The attack began on September 5 with an assault on the village of Zabilje from the direction of Brdo. The ABiH forces succeeded in entering the village, and the HVO subsequently reported that two HVO soldiers had been killed and nine wounded, and that fifteen to twenty civilians working in the fields had been taken prisoner. The British UNPROFOR battalion at Stari Bila reported a significant rise in the intensity of local exchanges of artillery, mortar, rocket-propelled grenade, heavy machine gun, and small-arms fire beginning at 8:30 A.M. in the vicinity of Brdo. The firing soon extended to Bukve, to Jardol in the afternoon, and on toward the main road north of Vitez. According to the UNPROFOR: "The immediate BIH objective in this area is to capture Zabilje; this will then ultimately allow their forces to push further south in order to cut the HVO MSR ...it is a BIH long term aim to divide the Novi Travnik/Vitez/Busovaca Croat enclave into a number of smaller isolated pockets."
The attack on Zabilje was mounted by elements of the ABiH 325th Mountain Brigade. Mensud Kelestura, the brigade commander. subsequently claimed he had twenty-two HVO bodies to exchange and stated that he would attack Stari Bila within ten days. The situation quieted down on September 6, but heavy firing on the ABiH positions on Bila Hill resumed around 1 P.M. on the seventh and continued into the night. On September 8, the HVO launched its own attack in the Stari Bila area. Elements of the Viteska Brigade, supported by the Vitezovi PPN, attacked Muslim positions in Grbavica in order to forestall the promised ABiH attack and prevent Muslim forces from advancing any farther toward the SPS explosives factory. By first seizing the high ground to either side of the village, including Grbavica (Bila) Hill, which dominated the area, the HVO forces skillfully ejected Muslim troops from the village itself. The BRITBAT reported both the successful HVO clearing attack on September 8 and the consequent HVO celebrating on Bila Hill the following day.
The ABiH launched another attack toward Vitez along the Preocica-Kruscica axis on September 18, their aim being to cut the Nova Bila-Busovaca road and divide the existing Croat enclave into two parts. After a quiet night in the Vitez area, ABiH artillery and mortars in the Bila area opened fire at about 1 A.M. on the eighteenth. Rounds fell on HVO positions west of Novi Travnik; in Novi Bila, Vitez, and Busovaca; and elsewhere along the line of contact in the Lasva Valley. The BRITBAT subsequently reported that the ABiH had launched a series of battalion-size assaults on HVO positions in the valley and had made a number of minor territorial gains, particularly in the area north of Kruscica toward Vitez. On September 19, the BRITBAT reported that the ABiH's main thrust seemed to be in the Kruscica and Krcevine areas, with signs of infantry attacks at about 1:10 P.M. in the area around Cifluk and Brankovac.
The ABiH attacks continued on September 20, focusing on the Ahmici area along the Sivrino Selo-Pirici-Ahmici-Kratine line of contact in the north, and the area between Kruscica and Vitez in the south as the Muslims advanced perhaps a kilometer in twenty- four hours. The fighting in the north shifted to the Santici area the following day, while the main battle continued along the line of contact established previously in the area south of Vitez. After four days of heavy fighting, the ABiH offensive in the Vitez area petered out without gaining its principal objectives.
On September 23, ABiH forces launched a large-scale artillery and infantry attack in the Busovaca area, killing five HVO troops, including a commander. In addition, about fifteen 120-mm mortar rounds landed in the town of Busovaca, seriously injuring several civilians. Near the end of the month, on September 27, the ABiH again tried to cut the road in the Vitez area by advancing south from Sivrino Selo and north from Rijeka at the point where the Croat enclave was at its narrowest. That same day, the Croat hospital in Vitez received three direct hits by ABiH mortars. Two persons were killed. The Vitez hospital was hit by Muslim shells again on September 28 as fighting continued in the afternoon in the villages north of town on a general line running from Jardol to Nadioci. The UNPROFOR reported the next day that Fikret Cuskic's 17th Krajina Mountain Brigade had established its headquarters in the village of Kruscica. A BRITBAT officer visiting the office of Ramiz Dugalic, the ABiH III Corps security officer, saw a map with arrows indicating the severing of the Vitez-Busovaca enclave in the Sivrino Selo area.
The situation in the Lasva Valley remained relatively quiet throughout the month of October, but sustained fighting erupted again in early November. On November 5, the ABiH attacked laterally from Kruscica northwest toward the SPS factory, gaining control of Zbrdje and a settlement of weekend houses in the area southwest of Vitez. They established a front line extending from the weekend homes to Bijelijna and thus brought the SPS factory under direct fire for the first time since mid-April.
Just over a month later, on December 8, the ABiH mounted a two-****ged attack from Zaselje and Stari Vitez with the apparent objective of taking the SPS factory. The Muslims failed again, but they achieved greater success just two weeks later when the ABiH mounted another determined attack on Vitez along the Preocica-Sivrino Selo-Pirici axis toward Krizancevo Selo on December 22. The HVO defenders were surprised; Krizancevo Selo, just fifteen hundred meters from the UNPROFOR Dutch/Belgian Transport Battalion compound near Dubravica, was taken; and between sixty and a hundred HVO soldiers and Croat civilians were killed in the village.1 The operation was conducted by the 2d Battalion, 325th Mountain Brigade, under the personal supervision of Gen. Rasim Delic, the ABiH commander, who was present in the 2d Battalion command post during the attack. In view of the determined ABiH attempts to take Vitez and the SPS factory, it is not surprising that a proposed ABiH-HVO Christmas cease-fire fell through due to ABiH intransigence.2
The ABiH enclave in Stari Vitez remained a cancer in the breast of the HVO forces defending the Vitez- Busovaca enclave throughout the period. The Muslim forces in Stari Vitez were heavily armed and resupplied on occasion with the help of UN forces.3 Even women were mobilized and took an active part in the fighting, thereby giving up their status as noncombatants. The HVO closely invested the small but noisome enclave and frequently sought without success to carry it by assault, most notably on July 18. Yet the ABiH was equally unsuccessful in its efforts to relieve the enclave, principally due to the spirited HVO resistance.4
The ABiH attacks in the Vitez-Busovaca area continued into 1994. Filip Filipovic, the acting OZCB commander, refused to surrender a triangle of land north of Stari Vitez that would have permitted the ABiH to link up with the Muslim Territorial Defense forces in Stari Vitez and break the siege. The Muslims responded by resuming their offensive in the early morning hours on January 9, with the ABiH forces advancing in a pincer movement from the Krizancevo Selo area south toward Santici, and from Kruscica north toward the Lasva Valley road. The battle continued on January 10, and Muslim forces broke through the HVO defenses the next day. They quickly established a new line at Bukve Kuce, about a hundred meters from the OZCB headquarters in the Hotel Vitez. That same day, ABill soldiers placed a flag on a telephone pole opposite the gate of the UNPROFOR transport battalion compound in Santici. It was the "closest [the] BiH ever came to cutting the Vitez pocket in two." The attack did succeed in closing the southern exit from Vitez toward Busovaca, and during the three days of fighting some thirty-six Croats, both military and civilian, were killed, and a number were listed as missing.
The HVO counterattacked on January 24 and regained some of the ground lost earlier in the month. Meanwhile, Sir Martin Garrod, the head of the ECMM Regional Center in Zenica, noted in his end-of-tour report that the two large Muslim offensives launched on December 22, 1993, and January 9, 1994, with the aim of reducing the Vitez pocket, "turned out not to be as effective militarily as they appeared to be initially."
Even as negotiations to end the Muslim-Croat conflict began, fighting continued in the Vitez area. In early February, the ABiH regrouped and brought in reinforcements from Sarajevo and Zenica in preparation for another major assault to cut the Lasva Valley road at Santici. An ABiH attack toward Santici on February 8 failed, and the HVO counterattacked to widen the neck of the Vitez Pocket. On February 14, the HVO succeeded in removing the ABiH flag placed in Santici on January 11, and after almost two months of heavy fighting the lines in the Vitez Pocket were back where they had been before the first Muslim offensive in the area. The fighting in the Vitez region tapered off, then resumed briefly as both sides sought a final advantage immediately before the cease-fire pursuant to the peace accords signed in Zagreb on February 23 were to go into effect at noon on February 25.
Inquisitor
10-04-2005, 02:54 PM
many compliments for your reliable and objective source shadower
http://www.hercegbosna.org/engleski/operation.html
:cantbeli:
majkemi smijesan si
shadower
10-04-2005, 04:30 PM
You give me objective one not Bosniak or Croatian!
Inquisitor
10-04-2005, 04:47 PM
the thing is I don't pretend to tell people how it was,since noone asked,and even than I would tell them use google.You know what is objective for me ain't objective for you,same the contrary
No, that was to deep into their territory and we didn't really trust them. It was near Travnik and Vitez. My unit in particular was fighting Muslims while Croats were reatreating over Vlasic. I remember seeing some Croats with Kokarda (Double-Head Eagle) and Sahovnica next to each other on their hats and berrets. :lol:
Unluckily you don't have photo of that, because If you had any you would be famous.
If we allowed Muslims to defeat them war for us would be over, cause then they would be fighting each other, and we could just chill untill someone wins, but our political leadership was too stupid to realize that. :( Well thanks fo the video. It certainly does bring some memories. :D
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army, they become stronger and stronger, and highly motivated. You liked peace with HVO cos it alloved your forces to regroup on muslim fronts, and by helping HVO you wanted to destroy HVO and ABH cooperation, cos there was parts of Bosnia where they fought together even in time of croatian - muslim war in middle bosna. (Bosnian Posavina forinstance)
Son I don't know if you lived there. Serbs did save some 20,000 Croats from Central Bosnia. That is a known fact. Later Croats sent us some gasoline as a way o paying for it. If we didn't intervene HVo would be defated and Muslims would pay back for Ahmice. Well than they would resume thier fighting in Mostar and other places, Croatia would come in and we could just chill. We didn't need to regroup our forces. What cooperation are you talking about? They started fighting each other before they started fighting Serbs. For example in Jajce we were fighting Croats and Muslims, but once we entered the city we found out that it was three way war in which they made truce only after we defeated both of them and offered them to retreat over Divicani. In Mostar they were fighting pretty much the whole war. The heaviest fighting in all of Bosnia was between Croats and Muslims at Prozor. yes thy fought in Bosanska Posavina together, but that was a exception rather than a rule untill 1994.
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army
... We fought 'Muslims' for the better part of four years. I don't understand your comment. In fact, we resisted highly successfully even when the arms balance (ammunition, logistics and manpower wise) turned against us by a rather significant margin in 1994.
Lokos
Balance never turned to their side. In 1995 we had more tanks, artillery, ammo, and supplies. Maybe they had more soldiers but that was never a problem, since 2-3 Pragas could hold off any of their battallions. Our political leadership sucked, and that was why Oluja happened.
Inquisitor
10-04-2005, 05:01 PM
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army
... We fought 'Muslims' for the better part of four years. I don't understand your comment. In fact, we resisted highly successfully even when the arms balance (ammunition, logistics and manpower wise) turned against us by a rather significant margin in 1994.
Lokos
Balance never turned to their side. In 1995 we had more tanks, artillery, ammo, and supplies. Maybe they had more soldiers but that was never a problem, since 2-3 Pragas could hold off any of their battallions. Our political leadership sucked, and that was why Oluja happened.
I like your version of facts more Ogi woot
No, war for you would started (if you would allowe to defeat HVO) cos you would have to fight muslims, and you did not want to do that cos at that time they started to build their army
... We fought 'Muslims' for the better part of four years. I don't understand your comment. In fact, we resisted highly successfully even when the arms balance (ammunition, logistics and manpower wise) turned against us by a rather significant margin in 1994.
Lokos
Balance never turned to their side. In 1995 we had more tanks, artillery, ammo, and supplies. Maybe they had more soldiers but that was never a problem, since 2-3 Pragas could hold off any of their battallions. Our political leadership sucked, and that was why Oluja happened.
I like your version of facts more Ogi woot
I could care less.
O yeash. Just an example of Croatian and Muslim cooperation. In spring of the 1992 when we were fighting arround Jajce, Croats from Travnik managed to get into our radio communications, and they asked our artillery to help them out, while we were fighting their guys in Jajce. Unfortunately for them the artillery position they talked too was on the western side of Jajce, and the are where they were was out of reach. :lol:
Inquisitor
10-04-2005, 05:25 PM
alo ba smiri zivce ovo je samo forum nemoras nikome nista dokazivat
Ja sam smiren. O kakvim ti potonulim brodovima??? :lol:
This sucks... I just get the sound, no picture! :|
goldman
10-04-2005, 08:07 PM
This sucks... I just get the sound, no picture! :|
You know what else sucks this thread
shadower
10-04-2005, 08:24 PM
As long as we are objective and we don't call each other horse, pig, ustasa, balija, cetnik, shiptar etc it's ok!
goldman
10-04-2005, 08:33 PM
As long as we are objective and we don't call each other horse, pig, ustasa, balija, cetnik, shiptar etc it's ok!
Shiptare is nothing offensive, it means albanian in albanian language ;)
As long as we are objective and we don't call each other horse, pig, ustasa, balija, cetnik, shiptar etc it's ok!
Shiptare is nothing offensive, it means albanian in albanian language ;)
cetnik is nothing offensive, it means serb in serb language ;)
shadower
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
Well good for you son :petting:!
As long as we are objective and we don't call each other horse, pig, ustasa, balija, cetnik, shiptar etc it's ok!
Shiptare is nothing offensive, it means albanian in albanian language ;)
cetnik is nothing offensive, it means serb in serb language ;)
on contraire!!! Cetnik is a compliment. :D
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
The only thing that matters is that they were Serbs fighting Hitler? Right. We know that our neighbors were busy being in SS Divisions, and Ustase. ;)
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
The only thing that matters is that they were Serbs fighting Hitler? Right. We know that our neighbors were busy being in SS Divisions, and Ustase. ;)
Right... Right... Yes the partizans were fighting Hitler, but what did chetniks do? hm...
O how did I forget that. They were at Stalingrad fighting Russians??Right?? :roll:
Moja malenkost!
http://srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/himmler.html
Interesting!
http://srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/himmler.html
oops! my bad! :oops:
Chetniks
Collaboration and war crimes
The Chetnik collaboration with Germans and Italians did exist. In Serbia, a new pro-Nazi government was first established under the leadership of Milan Asimovic and later under former Minister of War General Milan Nedic which governed until 1945. Nedic supported Hitler and met with him in 1943. This new government established even harsher racial laws than Prince Paul had enacted and immediately established three concentration camps for Jews, Gypsies and others. Nedic formed his own paramilitary storm troops known as the State Guard. The Guard was comprised of former members of the Chetniks which had existed as an all-Serbian para-military police force under King Alexander and Prince Paul to enforce loyalty from non-Serbian members of the armed forces. When Yugoslavia disintegrated, one faction of Chetniks swore allegiance to the new Serbian Nazi government. Another group remained under the pre-war leader Kosta Pecanac who openly collaborated with the Germans. A third Chetnik faction followed the Serbian Fascist Dimitrije Ljotic. Ljotic's units were primarily responsible for tracking down Jews, Gypsies and Partisans for execution or deportation to concentration camps. By August 1942 the Serbian government would proudly announce that Belgrade was the first city in the New Order to be Judenfrei or "free of Jews." Only 1,115 of Belgrade's twelve thousand Jews would survive. Ninty-five per cent of the Jewish population of Serbia was exterminated.
Still other Cetniks rallied behind Draza Mihailovic, a 48 year-old Army officer who had been court-martialed by Nedic and was known to have close ties to Britain. Early in the War Mihailovic offered some resistance to the German forces while collaborating with the Italians. By July 22, 1941 the Yugoslav Government-in-Exile announced that continued resistance was impossible. Although Mihailovic and his exiled government would maintain a fierce propaganda campaign to convince the Allies that his Chetniks were inflicting great damage on the Axis, the Cetniks did little for the war effort and openly collaborated with the Germans and Italians while fighting Ustase and Partizans. At its peak, Mihailovic's Cetniks claimed to have three hundred thousand troops. In fact they never numbered over thirty-one thousand.Chetnik advocates argue that these were tactical collaborations on a local level, with the main aim to fight their common enemy - the Partisans. Chetniks viewed their ideological struggle against the Partisans as one more important than the fight against the Germans. However this collaboration continued until the end of WWII, and the allies withdrew support from the Chetniks in 1944. Mihailovic was executed in 1946 for treason. The extent of Chetnik collaboration with the German and Italian armies as well as their vicious war against the pro-Allied Partisans is well documented in dozens of books, including "The Chetniks."
In the areas of Independent State of Croatia, which included Bosnia and Croatia, a bitter ethnic war was fought. The ruling Ustaše regime had proclaimed as its goal to exterminate one third of the Serbs, expel the other third and convert the rest to the Catholic faith. Chetniks fought both the Ustaše and Partisans in these areas, and retaliated for the crimes against Serbs in the villages populated by Bosnian Muslims (who they saw as ones allied with the Ustashe) and Croats. The areas around Višegrad, Zvornik, Foča, Čajniče, Pljevlja were gravely impacted by this kind of ethnic cleansing until Tito's Partisans arrived at the site in large numbers in 1942. There's one report of 2,000 Muslim men killed in Foča and Muslim women mass raped, and another report of 1,200 fighters and 8,000 civilians killed in easternmost Bosnia and Sandžak during this time.
After the victory of Tito's Communists, recognised the atrocities but also did not forget their collaboration with the German and Italian forces. After capture in 1946, Mihailović was tried, convicted of treason, which strained the Franco-Yugoslav relations at the time, and Charles de Gaulle refused to visit Yugoslavia or meet Tito.
During and after the WW2, communist regime in Yugoslavia fabricated “proofs” of chetniks’ collaboration with Axis powers. Sometimes, false pictures are very easy to spot. For example, at the front cover of the book that talks about chetniks’ collaboration, there is a picture that shows a German officer with chetniks. Check the forged picture By mistake, communist forgers haven’t recognized British and American uniforms at the picture. However, the original picture from February 1944 has survived. At original picture, there is no German officer. At both pictures, there are British colonel William Bailey and American major Walter Mansfield. Check the original picture
No Links!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Chetnik-officer.JPG
Chetnik officer
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Chetniksvukovar.jpg
Chetniks entering Vukovar in 1991 (see battle of Vukovar)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Vukowar.jpeg
Serb Chetnik (right) with his son in Vukovar, 1991
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/grenada/543/nikola2.jpg
I wonder why he needs that knife?
bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...
I could write a crap like that and it won't matter. There were some smaller groups that supported Hitler, but majority fought aginst Germans, and their allies. Any pics??? ;)
bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...
I could write a crap like that and it won't matter. There were some smaller groups that supported Hitler, but majority fought aginst Germans, and their allies. Any pics??? ;)
These are FACTS!!!
Before you posted that crap maybe you should have asked yourself why did Madeline Albright moved to Serbia during the war. After all she could always go to Jasenovac, where I'm sure no one would mind that she is a Jew.
bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...
I could write a crap like that and it won't matter. There were some smaller groups that supported Hitler, but majority fought aginst Germans, and their allies. Any pics??? ;)
These are FACTS!!!
Ma jasta! That picture is a fact! Now, I'm too tired, so I'm just gonna go to sleep.
Laku noc!
Before you posted that crap maybe you should have asked yourself why did Madeline Albright moved to Serbia during the war. After all she could always go to Jasenovac, where I'm sure no one would mind that she is a Jew.
I think that you know the answer to that already!
goldman
10-04-2005, 09:41 PM
Oh man :cantbeli:
goldman
10-04-2005, 11:30 PM
As long as we are objective and we don't call each other horse, pig, ustasa, balija, cetnik, shiptar etc it's ok!
Shiptare is nothing offensive, it means albanian in albanian language ;)
cetnik is nothing offensive, it means serb in serb language ;)
on contraire!!! Cetnik is a compliment. :D
hhmm ok :roll: . But really if u say shiptar to an albanian is not offensive it just means albanian nothing more.
I know that. I knew few Albanians, who were cool people, and I always called them Siptari. They never said anything. They were not offended, nor did I want to offend them.
And trust me Cetnik is a compliment. At least to those Serbs who know history more in depth. I know many will understand that as a derogatory word, because of the intention of the speaker, like in this thread ABiH, but the best thing is to ignore. Most people are ignorant so they'll say stuff about which they don't know ****.
goldman
10-04-2005, 11:59 PM
I know that. I knew few Albanians, who were cool people, and I always called them Siptari. They never said anything. They were not offended, nor did I want to offend them.
And trust me Cetnik is a compliment. At least to those Serbs who know history more in depth. I know many will understand that as a derogatory word, because of the intention of the speaker, like in this thread ABiH, but the best thing is to ignore. Most people are ignorant so they'll say stuff about which they don't know ****.
Well i got to be honest mate i dont know the stuff they did but like Ustasha they just dont have good reputation.
goldman
10-05-2005, 12:11 AM
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
Well i had family members like you who fought with the germans and partisans, they had no choice. One of my father's uncle, mother side was only 16 years old when he was picked up by partisans. He served in bosnia as a medic from the begining to the end, he saw some ****ed up stuff. My dad tell's me his stories how partisan soldiers would **** their pants when chetnicks approached same as Ustasha. Both were brutal. He said we found people tied up againsts the trees and their stomachs cut and filled with salt. Not really heroes.
shadower
10-05-2005, 12:39 AM
My great grand father was member of Chetnik wich were special forces of Kingdom of Yugoslavia way before ww2.
Lokos
10-05-2005, 02:48 AM
Firstly, guys, settle down. It was a good thread before the onset of the Chetnik/Ustasha/Partizans bollocks.
In 1995 we had more tanks, artillery, ammo, and supplies.
Tanks; yes. Artillery; yes. Ammo; no. Supplies; certainly not. Numerically, we had the greater number of heavy weapons systems. But the clandestine resupplies from Serbia proper were too few and too far between - by 1995 the VRS was materially exhausted. Furthermore, by early-mid 1995 NATO was de facto operating as a Bosnian Air Force, further shifting the balance of power.
Lastly, the effective manpower potential of the Bosnian/Croat forces was between twice and three times as large as Republika Srpska's.
Lokos
I had Chetniks and Partizans in my family and I am proud of both.
Well i had family members like you who fought with the germans and partisans, they had no choice. One of my father's uncle, mother side was only 16 years old when he was picked up by partisans. He served in bosnia as a medic from the begining to the end, he saw some f*** up stuff. My dad tell's me his stories how partisan soldiers would **** their pants when chetnicks approached same as Ustasha. Both were brutal. He said we found people tied up againsts the trees and their stomachs cut and filled with salt. Not really heroes.
Well the greatest "Partizan" hero Simeula Solaja was a Cetnik. My grandad fought in his battallion, and died in 1942, fighting against Ustase and Germans on Kupres. Uzicka Republika was created by Cetniks in a big revolt when they liberated big part of Serbia, and in a agreement between Tito, and Draza, after Draza captured him, Partizans got part of territory arround Uzice. later on after Germans recaptured the bigger cities they attacked Uzicka Republika also. Partizans never stayed to protect civilians after they do **** to Germans or ustase. cetniks always stayed in villages and fought to the end. The best example is Kozara where Partrizans were, where 80,000 Serbs got massacred by Germans and ustase, while in manjaca where Cetniks were Ustase forces were butchered by Cetniks and they never again tried to conquerr that Mountain.
Beagle
10-05-2005, 07:06 AM
This sucks... I just get the sound, no picture! :|
Install new DivX 5 codec or even newer DivX 6 and then you'll see the picture.
Firstly, guys, settle down. It was a good thread before the onset of the Chetnik/Ustasha/Partizans bollocks.
Agree. Guys, stick to the theme...
Inquisitor
10-05-2005, 07:47 AM
bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...
I could write a crap like that and it won't matter. There were some smaller groups that supported Hitler, but majority fought aginst Germans, and their allies. Any pics??? ;)
for the sake of the topic,I won't continue this debate about chetniks,but Ogi if you really want to see pics of Chetniks with Germans,I will post them.
kapela
10-05-2005, 11:53 AM
Sory ABiH this link ist Orginal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks ;)
Hrvoje
10-05-2005, 12:47 PM
for the sake of the topic,I won't continue this debate about chetniks,but Ogi if you really want to see pics of Chetniks with Germans,I will post them.
There is topic with pics of Chetniks with Germans...
goldman
10-05-2005, 01:25 PM
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/4a/Nazichetniks.gif
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/cetnik.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/cetniksgroup.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/couple.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/stanisic.jpg
Few pictures here.
goldman
10-05-2005, 01:33 PM
I'am really confused, i have seen many pictures of chetniks with Allie OSS and Pilots but same goes with german and italian officers.
Beagle
10-05-2005, 01:34 PM
And chetniks & germans have in common with HVO video....what? F**king unbelieveable... :cantbeli:
goldman
10-05-2005, 01:36 PM
And chetniks & germans have in common with HVO video....what? F**king unbelieveable... :cantbeli:
I have no idea.......... but when it comes to Balkan threads things intend to get out of control fast :( .
Sory ABiH this link ist Orginal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks ;)
Yup that is where I got the information from. So?
This sucks... I just get the sound, no picture! :|
Install new DivX 5 codec or even newer DivX 6 and then you'll see the picture.
Firstly, guys, settle down. It was a good thread before the onset of the Chetnik/Ustasha/Partizans bollocks.
Agree. Guys, stick to the theme...
Now when I download DivX 6 your link is not working. :(
seventy6er
10-05-2005, 02:40 PM
This thread sucks ass... so bad... :bash:
eucalyptus
10-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Any pictures for this story? I would have liked to see how big certain pockets where.
Beagle
10-05-2005, 03:11 PM
Now when I download DivX 6 your link is not working. :(
Yousendit: Your transfer cannot be completed. The file has most likely exceeded its allotted bandwidth or has been removed by the original sender or a recipient.
Bandwidth exceeded :| Ask someone with great upload speed to send it to you...
Mods, please lock this thread.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/4a/Nazichetniks.gif
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/cetnik.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/cetniksgroup.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/couple.jpg
http://trial-mihailovic-1946.org/IMG/jpg/stanisic.jpg
Few pictures here.
Those are mostly in Monte Negro or Hercegovina. They took part in Neretva, I think, against Partizans, but were never controled by Mihajlovic. But I suppose Truman didn't award Mihajlovic with a medal for being German allie, but for saving 600 Americans. Anyway, even in Partizans Serbs were great majority.
Upfrontreporting
12-12-2005, 06:33 AM
Can anyone rehost the video of this thread, please.
Corpse
12-12-2005, 02:55 PM
Can anyone rehost the video of this thread, please.
x2
Could someone upload it to putfile.com preferably please?
Josip
09-09-2008, 03:57 AM
pls upload the file again
The only thing that matters is that they were Serbs fighting Hitler? Right. We know that our neighbors were busy being in SS Divisions, and Ustase. ;)
So very funny and ignorant you say that....Wasn't it in Blegrade the the Serbs proclaimed the first Jew free city in Europe. Please you disugust me and are an insult to the memories of those killed under Hitler.
So very funny and ignorant you say that....Wasn't it in Blegrade the the Serbs proclaimed the first Jew free city in Europe. Please you disugust me and are an insult to the memories of those killed under Hitler.
Actually it was a German general that proclaimed Belgrade as jew free. I wonder what you are implying. I suppose all those Serb partisans that fought and killed Nazis for 4 years were actually undercover agents for the SS as well. I also wonder why Serbia has the largest population of Jews of all the former yugo countries.
Annihilator9112
09-15-2008, 03:01 AM
as this thread is only 3 days old i can post in here??
well i would like to see this video but it is no longer available. Does anyone know where i can find this video now?? is it on the net or it is forever gone now???
EDIT: i ment someone posted in it 3 days ago makes it not old :P
Nebelwerfer.
09-15-2008, 05:53 AM
Thread is three and a half years old. And vid is still on my hard drive or DVD, I have to check it up. When I catch time I'll upload it.
Nebelwerfer.
09-21-2008, 01:17 PM
Video reuploaded because of requests...though, this time without subtitles since I don't have them anymore. WARNING: Video contains graphic scenes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9ddmNWNx-4
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