There is no Iraq!........viewpoint from Kurdistan

[Argyll]

Interesting reading........lets see what comes out of the woodwork with this one!! p-)

http://web.krg.org/articles/article_detail.asp?LangNr=12&RubricNr=&ArticleNr=6465&LNNr=28&RNNr=70

[Clearday-TRForce]

:lol: , how much time to have a new site for me? maybe 5 minutes...I can easily make a state in net while using my flash and powerpoint skills...


Ok, lets put a name..."Elfistan"....from "Lord of the rings"...yeahhh we must make a new site of Elfistan. :lol:

(note: Agryll on duty ;) )



regards,
CDTRF

[Argyll]

Did you bother to read the article,or just chose to jump in with both feet? p-)

[davis411]

Thanks. The mission at hand is definitely not an easy one, and it has only just begun.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Did you bother to read the article,or just chose to jump in with both feet? p-)


Did you? ohh I know you are glad to see these things...Rebuilding bla bla...Yeahh,we will built up...


ahh,forget!!! what can we call the site name? let me guess...options;


-www.elfistan.com
-www.pleaserebuildus.com
-www.takeouthem.com
-www.usamustsaveourassiniraq.com rofl




have a nice day mate.


regards,
CDTRF

[davis411]

:roll:

[ShakesFIST]

Kurdistan is a nice place to visit. I actually enjoyed myself there. They have a ferris wheel and a super market! woot

[n4292936]

They don't care about Iraq or whatever– we do. This theme has been played out so many times before. Political impositions on any group of people rarely flourish.

I think the last 50 years is testament to how incorrect his theory is wrong. Modern A-stan, an ethnically diverse yet largely politically homogenous area may be yet another example. In any case, his idea won't come to fruition by anything other than American military absence and sgnificant bloodshed. Dare I say it - are all placed on earth really made for or ready for democracy?

[dacanadianbomb]

Did you bother to read the article,or just chose to jump in with both feet? p-)


Did you? ohh I know you are glad to see these things...Rebuilding bla bla...Yeahh,we will built up...


ahh,forget!!! what can we call the site name? let me guess...options;


-www.elfistan.com
-www.pleaserebuildus.com
-www.takeouthem.com
-www.usamustsaveourassiniraq.com rofl




have a nice day mate.


regards,
CDTRF

Damn, I can tell the future, I knew you would come in here and post useless ****e-just by knowing the title.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Damn, I can tell the future, I knew you would come in here and post useless ****e-just by knowing the title.


I know what you know... :lol:

[pathfinder82]

Well I have thought for a long time that the way they are drawing up Iraq is simplistic at best. Its as if the shot callers don't know about the complexities involved or know were screwed and refuse to show it. I fully expected to see a country divided into 3-4 major parts.

I personally think that even if things went perfectly, when we leave somewhere down the road the country will splinter. Its just too complex of a situation. One that had I looked at the situation and had to make a decision about invading I wouldn't have. Its a no win situation in my opinion and not worth the lives of my countrymen in the long run. However now that we are there lets try to actually not half ass something. If the place turns to s-it lets at least say we did our best and be able to look in the mirror just after saying it. At this point were far from being able to do that.

[khukuri]

NO NO NO

This article is written out of the kurdish perspective who wants nothing else than separitism. The other iraqis dont want to cut up the countrie in 3 pieces, they make it seem like that!

the last things the sunnis want is a 3 state solution. And by the way, it doesnt solve anything. Theres insurgency among kurds and shiites aswell, why would they stop?






George Bush still talks about freedom and democracy, as if they have relevance in the complicated sectarian strife in Iraq. Whose freedom, George? Whose democracy? It doesn’t feel like freedom to the Sunnis when they have been squeezed out of the Shiite and Kurdish controlled Iraqi government. That’s why they are fighting us – not because they hate their freedom but because they want it back.


thats bs, the iraqi sunnis are mostly fighting to regain the power they once had over the other to ethinc groups, shiites and kurds. If the sunnis were fighting for their own freedom they wouldnt be opposing the federalism so strong.







I would say that most off the stuff in this article is bs

[Argyll]

That's why there's a disclaimer at the bottom,stating that the article doesn't reflect the views of Kurdistan.....

Bottom line though people is that the Kurds have got their **** together,and are leaps and bounds in front of the Sunni's and Shia's,and from this perspective I can see why they wouldn't be too happy with being dragged down to their level!

Lenin,the Shia want their own autonomy,the Kurds have theirs,and the Sunni want it all.......you tell me in all honesty that the Iraqi people don't want their own Identities?

[Jedburgh]

Kurdistan is a nice place to visit. I actually enjoyed myself there. They have a ferris wheel and a super market! woot
The amusement park is in Irbil: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/8121/irbilamusementpark4pi.th.jpg (http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilamusementpark4pi.jpg)

Irbil also boasts a 5-star resort hotel, the Khan Zad: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6991/irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.jpg)

I've spent years in the Kurdish north. Great place, great people. But for years they've been their own worst enemy - they recognize that now, and they've worked hard to make Iraqi Kurdistan the most stable part of the country.

[khukuri]

That's why there's a disclaimer at the bottom,stating that the article doesn't reflect the views of Kurdistan.....

Bottom line though people is that the Kurds have got their **** together,and are leaps and bounds in front of the Sunni's and Shia's,and from this perspective I can see why they wouldn't be too happy with being dragged down to their level!

Lenin,the Shia want their own autonomy,the Kurds have theirs,and the Sunni want it all.......you tell me in all honesty that the Iraqi people don't want their own Identities?

YUP even if it officially doesnt support the view theres a reasin why its on a kurdish website.



The shia wants a federation, the only ones who want to break the country up is the kurds. No other iraiqs, which was the point of my post.

If the coalition sees this as an easy way out theyre wrong. Splitting up the country would be more difficult than restoring it to decent levels as a whole.

[achilles]

Interesting reading........lets see what comes out of the woodwork with this one!! p-)

http://web.krg.org/articles/article_detail.asp?LangNr=12&RubricNr=&ArticleNr=6465&LNNr=28&RNNr=70

One hell of a read...straighforward and no annoying 'freedom' and 'democracy' horse****

[Argyll]

Lenin,

I think you're seriously misinformed,tell me again about the Mahdi Militia and the Badr Group down South and what they want,then tell me why the Sunni's are more or less supporting the insurgency against the Coalition,add to that the already autonomous Kurds,this has nothing to do with the coalitions want's,it's the people of Iraq,you know the ones who have recently found a democracy........ :roll:

There is so much disagreement with the constitution,that a true democracy will never be realistic within Iraq,not in the coming months that's for sure.

Al Sadr is reported to be very ill,almost at deaths door,and his wishes are that his brother takes over,and he's even more radical,and hardline,if this happens then hell will follow for a time.

There's a lot going on in Iraq which you probably don't know about,and it looks ominous for the immediate future......The Kurds will get their way,no doubt about it........the Sunni will keep on fighting for their cause,and the Shia will grow in strength


Incase you hadn't really noticed,but the Kurds have been on their own since 91,where Saddam left them to get on with it,so saying the Kurds want to fragment a country torn apart is like old news.

[wiking]

Lenin,

I think you're seriously misinformed,tell me again about the Mahdi Militia and the Badr Group down South and what they want,then tell me why the Sunni's are more or less supporting the insurgency against the Coalition,add to that the already autonomous Kurds,this has nothing to do with the coalitions want's,it's the people of Iraq,you know the ones who have recently found a democracy........ :roll:

Found. Not to insult anyone, but to me it seemed more like the good old way of christianing pagans "Accept christianity or die at the sword". The basic "smite the infidels thing". Accept or be destroyed.

Iraq, or some of it, might turn out a working democracy some day, but i'd never say they found it, it was forced on them.

[rocket13]

I heard the Kurds were in all sense indepedent since '91. Now we ruin it for them by trying to provide that freedom to the rest of the nation lol.

I really don't feel sorry for the sunni. They were in power and now they are not. They didn't go to the polls to vote when they should have. They are for the most part backing the insurgency. Its their own fault they are getting a raw deal.

[Grimmer]

The state of Iraq has been a state entity only for about 88 years!
It was created by british emperium at the end of world war I and got it's independence in 1932. It was formed out of three former Ottoman Willayats, states: Mosul, Baghdad and Basra.

And the last 88 years have been bloody and unstable ones.
During WWI british forces fought hard and bloody war against the tribes in order to unite them as state of Iraq. Finally they made it and installed The Hashemite monarchy.

Then in 1958 the British-installed Hashemite monarchy was overthrown by Brigadier General Abdul Karim Qassim' and it lasted until 1963, when he was overthrown by Colonel Abdul Salam Arif. The Salam Arif guy died in 1966 and his brother, Abdul Rahman Arif, assumed the presidency.

In 1968, Rahman Arif was overthrown by the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, with Mr Hussein as its key figure, who in turn was overthrown by United States 2003.

Unlike example, european states, which are pretty homegenous states(notice: the people as one nation-ideology comes from 17th century so its pretty young ideology after all). The state of Iraq is not. And like all states created by emperiums(look what happened in 20th century at Africa) it its doomed to fall, sooner or later.

Thus I believe that as soon as maybe in the next 5-10 years the state of Iraq will stop to exist, and once again there will be 3 different states in the land of two rivers.

[sickofpretenders]

Kurdistan is a nice place to visit. I actually enjoyed myself there. They have a ferris wheel and a super market! woot
The amusement park is in Irbil: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/8121/irbilamusementpark4pi.th.jpg (http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilamusementpark4pi.jpg)

Irbil also boasts a 5-star resort hotel, the Khan Zad: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6991/irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.jpg)
I've spent years in the Kurdish north. Great place, great people. But for years they've been their own worst enemy - they recognize that now, and they've worked hard to make Iraqi Kurdistan the most stable part of the country.

He is more likely talking about dahuk, there amusment park is bigger and the mazi market is the only supermarked I have seen worthy of the name in the country. Also I would hardly call the hotel 5 star. Its excellent by iraqi standards but has gone downhill since the CPA left and was never 5 star.

I think the most amusing thing about the website is that almost certainly it was funded by USIAD.

[khukuri]

I dont know about sadr but he hardly represent any majority of shiites. Still most of the shiites and sunnis want to have an iraq, that makes it almost 80% of population. Says alot.


The country can work. I thikn its a matter of time. Look at belgium for example, a stable country with different groups. In iraq its not that ****es and sunnis cant get along, they can, its just a political problem that can be solved, or get worse.l

[Argyll]

I dont know about sadr but he hardly represent any majority of shiites. Still most of the shiites and sunnis want to have an iraq, that makes it almost 80% of population. Says alot.


The country can work. I thikn its a matter of time. Look at belgium for example, a stable country with different groups. In iraq its not that ****es and sunnis cant get along, they can, its just a political problem that can be solved, or get worse.l

You're ****ting me right?.........tell me the last time the Belgians decided to gas each other over their religious backgrounds?Whens the last time Belgians were getting blown up trying to get jobs ?......Lenin,that's a seriously fcuked up comparison,try relating it to another Middle eastern Country

As for Sadr.....I think you underestimate the power he has especially down South,if he wasn't a powerful figure exerting control over the authorities then the Police Forces there wouldn't be containing upto 60% of his Militia.
If most of the Sunni's wanted a democratic Iraq,then they'd be showing this by defying the insurgency,and not supporting it,instead of hiding the bombers,they'd be out there trying to bring them to the negotiating table,I didn't see any Sunni Cleric stand up to the calls for all out war against the Shia's when Zarqawi's AQ declared a free for all against them,better still,why don't this Sunni Insurgency just lay down their Arms,or take them up against AQ,in an attempt to make Iraq a better place?

The Shia and Kurds will never forget the oppresion they suffered at the hands of the Sunni's,so expecting them to sit down and not harbour grudges is a bit naive,when it comes to making Iraq a better place with a better future.

[khukuri]

I dont know about sadr but he hardly represent any majority of shiites. Still most of the shiites and sunnis want to have an iraq, that makes it almost 80% of population. Says alot.


The country can work. I thikn its a matter of time. Look at belgium for example, a stable country with different groups. In iraq its not that ****es and sunnis cant get along, they can, its just a political problem that can be solved, or get worse.l

You're ****ting me right?.........tell me the last time the Belgians decided to gas each other over their religious backgrounds?Whens the last time Belgians were getting blown up trying to get jobs ?......Lenin,that's a seriously fcuked up comparison,try relating it to another Middle eastern Country

As for Sadr.....I think you underestimate the power he has especially down South,if he wasn't a powerful figure exerting control over the authorities then the Police Forces there wouldn't be containing upto 60% of his Militia.
If most of the Sunni's wanted a democratic Iraq,then they'd be showing this by defying the insurgency,and not supporting it,instead of hiding the bombers,they'd be out there trying to bring them to the negotiating table,I didn't see any Sunni Cleric stand up to the calls for all out war against the Shia's when Zarqawi's AQ declared a free for all against them,better still,why don't this Sunni Insurgency just lay down their Arms,or take them up against AQ,in an attempt to make Iraq a better place?

The Shia and Kurds will never forget the oppresion they suffered at the hands of the Sunni's,so expecting them to sit down and not harbour grudges is a bit naive,when it comes to making Iraq a better place with a better future.

jeez... What I ment is that having a country with different ethnicites is possible. Thus the example belgium. Problems with comparing to other middleeastern countries is that many regimes are based on ONE ethnic group trying to control the other. Such as iraq was. So theres no good examples in middle east currently, but there have been. And thats my goal.

And nowehere did I mention sunnis being for a democratic iraq for the moment? What I think thou, is that if things seddle down (or military acheivs better), and the country will develop the sunnis will soon follow after. Theyre tribes will mean less, as it did before in iraq and life will go on. Sure many shias have something against sunnis, but most of us want to judge their former leaders. Not kill them all or divide the country.

I maby underestimating sadr, but youre definitly overestimating him:). Even thou he have some followers, I hardly belive most of them want to divide the country. Actually, many times sadr refered to the people in fallujah as his brothers.

I still stand by my point. We iraqis dont want to divide the country, neither shias nor sunnis. Just the kurds like at always been.
And I say it again, if anyone out there thinks dividing the land in the parts is an easier solution theyre wrong.


And yes I ofcourse knew about the kurdish autonomy:) since 91. Theres one possibility that they chopp of the kurdish part, but it would make the wotk inthe rest of the country more difficult, not to mention cities like mosul etc.

[Deuterium]

That's why there's a disclaimer at the bottom,stating that the article doesn't reflect the views of Kurdistan.....

Bottom line though people is that the Kurds have got their **** together,and are leaps and bounds in front of the Sunni's and Shia's,and from this perspective I can see why they wouldn't be too happy with being dragged down to their level!

Lenin,the Shia want their own autonomy,the Kurds have theirs,and the Sunni want it all.......you tell me in all honesty that the Iraqi people don't want their own Identities?

Yep...

[Deuterium]

Kurdistan is a nice place to visit. I actually enjoyed myself there. They have a ferris wheel and a super market! woot
The amusement park is in Irbil: http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/8121/irbilamusementpark4pi.th.jpg (http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilamusementpark4pi.jpg)

Irbil also boasts a 5-star resort hotel, the Khan Zad: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6991/irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=irbilkhanzadhotel0dh.jpg)
I've spent years in the Kurdish north. Great place, great people. But for years they've been their own worst enemy - they recognize that now, and they've worked hard to make Iraqi Kurdistan the most stable part of the country.

He is more likely talking about dahuk, there amusment park is bigger and the mazi market is the only supermarked I have seen worthy of the name in the country. Also I would hardly call the hotel 5 star. Its excellent by iraqi standards but has gone downhill since the CPA left and was never 5 star.

I think the most amusing thing about the website is that almost certainly it was funded by USIAD.

Don't forget they have some of the only working, and obeyed, traffic lights in the country.

[sickofpretenders]

true, not to mention suli has some fairly attractive female traffic cops