Something about Vasiliy Zaytsev

[Javehn]

I can guess that many of you saw the movie "Enemy at the gates" . It is talking about the story of Ural borned sniper in WW2 , Vasiliy Zaitsev . But not many people know , that he really existed . He has a record of over 400 sniper kill of German soldiers over the war . The germans were so affraid of him , that they send they best sniper - chief instructor in sniper school , Cl Heinz Thorvald (some people say that it was Major Koenig) , they hunted each other for a period of aprox a week (4 days) . According to tails , almost all major battles stoped in city , and let the 2 snipers to hunt each other out .

Zaytsev bellieved record was , that he eliminated 40 soldiers in a period of 10 days . That all according to Soviet propaganda papers , and some say that the battle between the two was simple propaganda . The movie is also very corrupting on the talled version , and it should end way before ... But the Zaytsev shure existed.
He passed away in 1991 , taking away one of most treassured legends of ww2 . His Mosin Nagant rifle is displayed in Moscow armed forces museum . Here are his pictures :


http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/photo-with-explanation.jpg
His Mosin Nagant sniper rifle

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/rifle_big.jpg

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/aParty-for-1971-Edition.jpg

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/aVassili-Zaitsev-Hero-of-th.jpg

[Seoulstriker]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

[Javehn]

Well , he is not Gade Law , but i guess that girl wasn't also Rachel something (Who remember those British acters , damnit ) ...

[[AFSOC]]

Jude Law

[Ichhabe]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

NEWSFLASH:

Enemy at the Gates was a movie, not a documentary... Cheeezuz.

[StarvingStudent47]

Enemy at the Gates was a movie, not a documentary... Cheeezuz.

On the other hand, the BOOK Enemy at the Gates was for the battle of Stalingrad what the book Black Hawk Down was for the battle of Mogadishu. Very very accurate and well-researched. Both got dumbed down and filled with pretty people in order to make a Hollywood movie. These things happen.

[George W. Bush]

Jew Law kinda looks like a Russian

[Javehn]

Jew Law

:roll:

I wasn't aware of that .... :P
Mispels can make wars those days ... ;) rofl
I bet you wrote that automatic .

[Operation Ivy]

I will admit he was a great sniper, but like you said Javehn some of his info was printed in propoganda newspapers, so i bet some of his #'s are false and were just used for morale :D

[navylt]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

NEWSFLASH:

Enemy at the Gates was a movie, not a documentary... Cheeezuz.

Being half Norwegian I can say we only hope it isn't much longer until they develop a sense of humor.

A movie? Really? You think?

[duck]

How truthful would our dear Russian members rate Soviet era military history research? Would it be 50% accurate or 70%? More? Less?

[UkrainianSpetsnaz]

Who really cares what he looks like? The point is he can snipe your ass. I only wish that someday I can have at least 10% of his wits and his eye.

[TriggerPuller]

Jew Law kinda looks like a RussianWatch it there wangChink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BTW Major Koenig never existed! no records of this "individual" have ever been found!

TP

[Ghostwolf]

In reality there was another Russian sniper Nikolay Yakovlevich with a
kill record of 496, but the highest sniper kill record was held by Simo
Hayha from Finland, with 542.

BTW the actors are Jude Law and Rachel Weiss, the moderator will take
note if anyone tries to start a racial flame war here, so beware and watch
what you type.

[fdt]

Main bulk of the Zaytsev story was certainly written by polit propaganda units during the battle of Stalingrad. For the propagandists he was to be an example of true soviet hero.... nothing more nothing less. For this reason I am affraid we will never know the real Zaitsev story, which certainly is more interesting than this propaganda made. Vassiliy Chuikov in his memoirs describes his achievements with such a detail that it is unbelievable that he could really know that from his own observations.... other than polit propaganda bulletins (what is the common "weakness" of the Soviet memoir writers). What is interesting; is the fact that the "Enemy at the gates" scenario fits to the Chuikov's relation .... like a glove. In fact the movie is very accurate to the "official" version of "events" but certainly has not much to do with true events.


By the way: what kind of optics did he use?

[FallenAngel]

One thing I heard about him was that he never shot common soldiers. He only shot officers. Then again, that might be propaganda too.

TP- Koenig may have existed still, although the Germans were famous if not for their record keeping. For over 50 years no one could find records or documentation on a patch of land in the middle of Nevada called Area 51 and yet that whole time the world's largest hangar and longest runway were being used by the USAF ;)

[Haiw]

One thing I heard about him was that he never shot common soldiers. He only shot officers. Then again, that might be propaganda too.

TP- Koenig may have existed still, although the Germans were famous if not for their record keeping. For over 50 years no one could find records or documentation on a patch of land in the middle of Nevada called Area 51 and yet that whole time the world's largest hangar and longest runway were being used by the USAF ;)
If he wasn't in the German records he didn't exist... Deutsche Grundlichkeit... :P

[DE_Six]

The Koenig character was based on German sniper Heinz Thorvald. But he was a Waffen SS sniper, not Gerbirgsjager. If he did exist. But likely, he is fictional too, for there is no record of his existence.

There is a novel, War of the Rats, that depicts the sniper duel between Thorvald and Zaitsev. While the storyline is fiction, it is well researched and is a plausible scenario of what could've happen. But a lot of it is still fiction.

The whole story has been debated, and still is, as to wether or not it is historically accurate. Thorvald is actually refered to as Koenig in some accounts. Maybe it was a nickname (Koenig=King), Zaitsev also had one, he was refered to as the Hare.

Here's a text that sums up pretty much were the debate is going:


On my Enemy at the Gates Review...03/24
As a military history buff, I just thought that I would let you know that the premise of Enemy at the Gates is entirely fictional and should not be billed as based on fact. I see that you recommend his movie for history buffs. I just want to set the record straight. The story of the duel between Zaitsev and Koenig is based upon a legend that was invented by the wartime Soviet Ministry of Propaganda. Zaitsev and Danilov are real characters (both dead now) and actually were Russian snipers that were based in Stalingrad in 1942 and records show that there was even a Tanya. (the Russians did make excellent use of female snipers and combat pilots, too) However, there are NO German records of any officer Koenig ever being assigned to 6th Army in the Don region. Much less a sniper, much less the head of the sharpshooters school in Berlin. There certainly was not a casualty report filed for his death. These are Germans we are talking about, they have accurate records on even the number of paperclips used in the casualty reports! This guy never existed. The point is that in late 1942, the Russians were losing. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians were being lost every month. The average life span of a replacement infantry soldier in Stalingrad was 24 hours. Post war records show the Soviets lost 1 million dead at Stalingrad. They needed a propaganda story to lift the spirits of the peasant workers, so they concocted a story. A peasant from the mountains, Zaitsev along with his friend a proletariat from the City (who also happens to be a political officer, coincidence?) Danilov. Together struggling against the mighty Fascist invaders, they kill the best the Germans have, the handpicked Prussian Goliath, Koenig. Excellent story to incite the Russian masses. Problem is that it never happened. The legend was perpetuated by a British author David L. Robbins, who published “The War of the Rats” in 1999. Only he took the old legend of Zaitsev and turned it into an excellent fiction in the style of Tom Clancy. He names the German sniper as S.S. Colonel Heinz Thorvald. Of course, there are no records of this guy either, because Robbins invented him. This is where writer/director Jean-Jacques Annaud got his inspiration for Enemy at the Gates. I realize most people don't care, but it always bothers me when fake stories are billed as based on real life. EATG is no more true than the movie Titanic, sure there was a Titanic and it sank, but the rest of the
movie is bogus. The same is true of this one. It never happened. Even the Russians admit it. Anyway, I have not seen it yet, but your review has motivated me to bite my tongue and enjoy it for what it is, the same way I did with Saving Private Ryan. Keep up the good work, I use your reviews all the time.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/paulasreviews/usercom.html

[Javehn]

yes, indeed .
And the movie is not following the book , by the way. According to book "Memoirs of sniper" , Zaitsev killing Cl Thorvald (or Koenig) on the next way : He plants him an ambush , shooting one german soldier . Then his partner make the helmet peep from the window , Thorvald made mistake and shoot the helmet , revealing his position . While he was standing to insure target , Zaitsev shoot him down .

[khukuri]

I am not sure about the whole thing with "sniper duels". Sounds a bit strange to me. How could a sniper duel occure in an enviroment like that.

Dont you guys also have reasons to doubt the actual figures of how many theese guys killed.

[Armour recon]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

True, he was a ugly bastard!

I just love these posts! Here Javehn made a good topic about Zaitsev,
and now everybody is just wondering how could he be so ugly!! rofl

[Herrmannek]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

I even don't want to know how that chick looked like.......

[GazB]

"I am not sure about the whole thing with "sniper duels". Sounds a bit strange to me. How could a sniper duel occure in an enviroment like that. "

A bombed out city is ideal sniper country... lots of covered exits, holes to shoot from cover from. A shot that is more than a few hundred metres would be difficult to locate due to the multiple reflections off buildings and structures, plenty of cover, and concealment, and noise.

"Dont you guys also have reasons to doubt the actual figures of how many theese guys killed."

They had 5 years and plenty of targets each. There are no claims that all the kills or any of them for taht matter were fair one on one duels.

The Russians used sharpshooters extensively and found them effective enough to go to the bother of designing a specialised rifle for them (SVD) and putting them in each unit of soldiers. Sounds like they didn't do too badly.

"Here Javehn made a good topic about Zaitsev,
and now everybody is just wondering how could he be so ugly!!"

If your weapon is big enough looks aren't that important... :-)

[ChuckThunder]

http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_S02/FS12/characters/zaitsevsn.jpg

that ugly guy had *** with that hot russian girl???

I even don't want to know how that chick looked like.......

Hes no Tom Berenger... :roll:

[Trigger]

Fiction or not, 'War of the Rats' was a good book. woot

[Hombre_Tostadas_en_polvo]

OMG very old topic


I can guess that many of you saw the movie "Enemy at the gates" . It is talking about the story of Ural borned sniper in WW2 , Vasiliy Zaitsev . But not many people know , that he really existed . He has a record of over 400 sniper kill of German soldiers over the war .

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/aParty-for-1971-Edition.jpg

http://www.notesofasniper.com/ppp/aVassili-Zaitsev-Hero-of-th.jpg

That no is true

You info is incorret :)

I like soviet side in the WWII but Enemy at the gates for me is a very very bad movie Rambo is much better lol rofl

[LibertyUnites]

early 2004? this has to be some sort of record

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

OMG very old topic



That no is true

You info is incorret :)

I like soviet side in the WWII but Enemy at the gates for me is a very very bad movie Rambo is much better lol rofl


Great necro-thread resurrection to reply to a long banned member.