Canadian troops to get improved armoured cars

[memphiz]

By David Pugliese and Mike Blanchfield



THE Canadian military is making an emergency purchase of new armoured patrol vehicles as it prepares for its new and risky mission to the Kandahar area in Afghanistan next year.
The vehicles, more robust and offering better armour protection than the current jeep-like G-Wagons, are expected to be in Afghanistan in either February or March, said Lt.-Col. Paul Ohrt, director of armoured vehicle project management.

Fifty vehicles will be bought and there could be an option to purchase another 25. The total cost for the package, which also includes spare parts and other support for a two-year period, is around $100 million.

The vehicles, designed with extra protection to withstand blasts from landmines and roadside bombs, would also be equipped with a roof-top weapon that can be fired by remote control by soldiers inside.

Canada will significantly boost its military presence and conduct combat operations in Kandahar starting in February. Both Defence Minister Bill Graham and Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier have warned the public the Canadian military could take casualties on that mission.

There are currently about 250 Canadians in Kandahar, but that is expected to increase to around 1,500 troops by early next year. The danger in Afghanistan was driven home yesterday when three Canadian soldiers received minor injuries after a bomb attack in Kandahar. Military officials believe a suicide bomber, driving a pickup truck, made a mistake and detonated his explosives too early.

The bomber and an Afghan boy, who was nearby, were killed in the blast. The boy's father was injured.

"It was just a kid and his dad who were going to work some fields and had absolutely nothing to do (with the insurgency)," Warrant Officer Mike Gauley, who was at the scene of the blast within minutes, told The Canadian Press from Afghanistan.

Graham said it is too early to tell whether the attacker targeted Canada directly. Graham brushed aside Conservative criticism that the Canadian troops are not properly equipped.

"I just want to assure the public that we know that Kandahar is a dangerous area and we'll be taking precautions to avoid this type of incident."

An army spokesman said the threat posed by suicide bombers and improvised explosives devices is behind the plan to purchase the new armoured patrol vehicles or APVs. The push to outfit next year's mission to Kandahar also involves the purchase of up to six new howitzers, as well as "smart" artillery shells at a total cost of around $60 million. A new satellite communications system will also be bought. Military officials hope that equipment will be in place by February

[Resevoir Hogs]

Any word on what vehicle we're going to get. I hope its the Eagle 4 from General Dynamics.

Here's some pictures I took of it a while ago. can't seem to find any on the net.
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/9782/f10000205xm.jpg
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/9863/f10000196at.jpg

[Tracker 23A]

this is so typical of the Liberal government.

Instead of getting something like this in the first place and sorting this out in the beginning, they go out and buy G Wagons.

Now that they had another incident they make another move to purchase a more protective vehicle, which they did when they purchased the G Wagon in place of the Iltis.

I wonder what they will do if another incident occurs with these new vehicles. I suppose they will go out and make another mission direct expenditure and get Tanks, hopefully Leopard 2A6.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[[AFSOC]]

this is so typical of the Liberal government.

Instead of getting something like this in the first place and sorting this out in the beginning, they go out and buy G Wagons.

Now that they had another incident they make another move to purchase a more protective vehicle, which they did when they purchased the G Wagon in place of the Iltis.

I wonder what they will do if another incident occurs with these new vehicles. I suppose they will go out and make another mission direct expenditure and get Tanks, hopefully Leopard 2A6.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

ok...

seeing how G-Wagons are still efficient, an extra add of armor would do them just right like American Hummers in Iraq.

Their just purchasing these new vehicles because its faster and easier to delivery to our troops that need it now.

[Tracker 23A]

]
this is so typical of the Liberal government.

Instead of getting something like this in the first place and sorting this out in the beginning, they go out and buy G Wagons.

Now that they had another incident they make another move to purchase a more protective vehicle, which they did when they purchased the G Wagon in place of the Iltis.

I wonder what they will do if another incident occurs with these new vehicles. I suppose they will go out and make another mission direct expenditure and get Tanks, hopefully Leopard 2A6.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

ok...

seeing how G-Wagons are still efficient, an extra add of armor would do them just right like American Hummers in Iraq.

Their just purchasing these new vehicles because its faster and easier to delivery to our troops that need it now.

you have got to be kidding me...

your telling me that they are buying these because it would be faster to get these than anything else and they only need them now. Do you know what is involved with a new purchase by DND?

They won't have these for months. And the G Wagons in Afghanistan have been fitted with armour already and new gun shields...

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/173/20050922gwagonm4ed.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20050922gwagonm4ed.jpg)

don't fall into the blind category and realize it for what it is, it is simple, they are purchasing these vehicles for a budgetted 100 million because it is cheaper to spend this amount of money and protect the troops with a vehicle that is only being used in one theatre because the government doesn't want to answer the press when and if another Cdn. soldier is killed. Its just that simple. With a higher threat of VBIED's and the such, the vehicle that was purchased for the main reason of adding protection to soldiers while in Afghanistan and having the ability to add armour to them gave way to the procurement of the G Wagon.

What I am saying is they should have purchased these the first time. :bash:

[memphiz]

Any word on what vehicle we're going to get. I hope its the Eagle 4 from General Dynamics.

Here's some pictures I took of it a while ago. can't seem to find any on the net.
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/9782/f10000205xm.jpg[/img]
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/9863/f10000196at.jpg[/img]
Is that like the NYALA?
http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?original=8532&site=combatcamera&catalog=photos&aspect&width=430

[Kingswat]

nice to see. That Eagle 4 thing looks cool.

[Resevoir Hogs]

No its a much different vehicle than the NYALA. They NYALA I believe has a much higher level of mine protection than the Eagle 4. However the Eagle 4 is a much more maneuverable vehicle for the infantry. And still has a very adequate level of protection. Small arms all around level 2 and mines level 3 if my memory serves me right.

However as for the claims that the government coped out by buying the G Wagon back then instead of the current vehicle that is being purchased. IF the Eagle 4 is the vehicle that has been chosen then its a great choice, however, we wouldn't have been able to purchase these in the first place back when we got the G Wagon because the Eagle 4 wasn't ready at that time.

[Tracker 23A]

Your right, we waited all this time just to get the Eagle 4, which by the way all Canadians will be proud to call. Not!

its called a political decision, you know like the Submarines we bought from the Brits and the Griffons we gave the airforce (which by the way wasn't what they really wanted).

We got the G Wagon because it was a political decision. They billed it as a better vehicle and one that could be up-armoured. This was one of the main reasons they bought it, for the protection of the troops while on patrol in dangerous environments. The other reason they bought it was a quick fix, for both the military and the public who were told their military was at risk and that the government wasn't equipping them for their missions.

There were plenty of contenders on the world market that outmatched the G Wagon for protection, but the government gave the contract to G Wagon because they are the only vehicle of the same class/purpose, made in Canada.

An enclosed G Wagon with its Armour Protection System (APS) kit most likely would have protected Canadian Cpl Jamie Murphy during a Taliban suicide bomber attack on January 27, 2004, in which he was killed. In addition, Sgt Robert Short and Cpl Robbie Beerenfenger died while three other members of 3RCR were injured during an October 2003 attack of two Iltis vehicles on patrol 2.2 miles outside of Kabul. They endured a blast of a large landmine, which reported could have been prevented if they were riding in an armored vehicle.

They bought the G Wagon because it offered more protection. They now don't think it offers enough protection so they are again, fixing the problem with a mission specific purchase to fix it.

Don't get me wrong, it is awesome that they are getting them (haven't seen the contract awarded yet, so wait out...), but it is always a quick fix, just wish they could invest in the military a little more and give the mil. the tools they need the first time in order to do their job ANYWHERE they go, not go somewhere and then purchase items along the way.

Anyways, maybe I am getting upset at something rediculous, probably am, but I have seen enough to know how it works and why it happens. Don't want to seem like a jerk, but I don't know if any of you have any experience, but this is always the case with any mission over sea's.

[Resevoir Hogs]

Well I'm not going to make any excuses for the governing party or for the ways in which our beauracracy seem to react instead of plan. I'm well familiar with the crummy ways in which DND contracts have been awarded in the past (LSVW).

I'm simply glad as an infanteer that the government is even making an investment now. It seems to be engrained in Canadian history and culture that we let our military atrophe in times of calm and then rush to catch up in times of conflict. Now doesn't seem to be any different than when we had to replace the Ross Rifles with Enfeilds in WW1.

It's promising getting all this new Kit, Even the G Wagons are a welcome capability compared with what we had before. That suicide attack the other day that resulted in only three wounded soldiers was I believe on a G Wagon so they musn't be all that bad.

On another note I doubt the CF will use the company's name for that vehicle. Although I wouldn't have a problem calling it the Eagle. Would be preferable to calling it the Goose.

[Tracker 23A]

Well I'm not going to make any excuses for the governing party or for the ways in which our beauracracy seem to react instead of plan. I'm well familiar with the crummy ways in which DND contracts have been awarded in the past (LSVW).

I'm simply glad as an infanteer that the government is even making an investment now. It seems to be engrained in Canadian history and culture that we let our military atrophe in times of calm and then rush to catch up in times of conflict. Now doesn't seem to be any different than when we had to replace the Ross Rifles with Enfeilds in WW1.

It's promising getting all this new Kit, Even the G Wagons are a welcome capability compared with what we had before. That suicide attack the other day that resulted in only three wounded soldiers was I believe on a G Wagon so they musn't be all that bad.

On another note I doubt the CF will use the company's name for that vehicle. Although I wouldn't have a problem calling it the Eagle. Would be preferable to calling it the Goose.

Your right, I'm walking along side now.

[Resevoir Hogs]

The only Quam I have with the G wagon is that it seems very high too me without enough of a wide stance. I haven't heard of any rollover incidents yet tho so I suppose its not a problem.

[Tracker 23A]

So Reservoir Hogs...

you seem like an intelligent dude, when are you going to turn in the night stick and join the regular force?

[Roy Batty]

Don't want to seem like a jerk, but I don't know if any of you have any experience, but this is always the case with any mission over sea's.

Dude when I got to A'stan on Roto 0 they gave me a Nissan Terrano (4runner) to drive around in. The only protection I had was a blast blanket on the seat! and I was out there 7 days a week in places the rest of ISAF rarely ever saw. As for the Jowaz Valley mine strike, read the BOI findings; armour was not in the cards and would have been counter to the mission policy of "hearts and minds" also that was one huge a$$ed anti-tank mine they rolled over.

[Roy Batty]

The only Quam I have with the G wagon is that it seems very high too me without enough of a wide stance. I haven't heard of any rollover incidents yet tho so I suppose its not a problem.

Resivoir, not only do they roll over but the shear-pins on the cuppolla have a low tollerance and tend to let the turret leave the vehicle on a roll-over (which sucks for the gunner who is belted to it!).

[Resevoir Hogs]

Resivoir, not only do they roll over but the shear-pins on the cuppolla have a low tollerance and tend to let the turret leave the vehicle on a roll-over (which sucks for the gunner who is belted to it!).

****ty, just something else to worry about I suppose. No one has been killed yet from a CF G Wagon rollover?


you seem like an intelligent dude, when are you going to turn in the night stick and join the regular force?

Well I've got just under two years of college ahead of me and then at that time I'm hoping to go on the Rotation to Afghanistan. There's a expanded role for the reserves with that mission now so I'm very confident I'll be able to get on it, just so long as I train hard. Been with the Reserves for 4 years and by then it'll be six, so depending on how the tour goes I'll make my mind up then for the regs. I can't see myself serving there longer than 4 years though, I still want to become a city cop. But hey who knows what I'll be thinking 2 years from now.

[EvanL]

Resivoir, not only do they roll over but the shear-pins on the cuppolla have a low tollerance and tend to let the turret leave the vehicle on a roll-over (which sucks for the gunner who is belted to it!).

****ty, just something else to worry about I suppose. No one has been killed yet from a CF G Wagon rollover?


you seem like an intelligent dude, when are you going to turn in the night stick and join the regular force?

Well I've got just under two years of college ahead of me and then at that time I'm hoping to go on the Rotation to Afghanistan. There's a expanded role for the reserves with that mission now so I'm very confident I'll be able to get on it, just so long as I train hard. Been with the Reserves for 4 years and by then it'll be six, so depending on how the tour goes I'll make my mind up then for the regs. I can't see myself serving there longer than 4 years though, I still want to become a city cop.
Well man Ottawa doesnt hire till your around 27 so you have a good 7years ahead to do watever you want.
Im pretty much planning the same thing out, seeing as im done the course a year before you.

[Resevoir Hogs]

Yea but you never know. They are hiring about 800 extra on top of normal attrition hiring over the next five years. So if I go in with good marks, lots of volenteering time, 6 years in the CF res and a tour to AStan I'm pretty sure they'd be interested in hiring me at 22/23. But if that doesn't work then yea reg force for a couple years, why not.

[EvanL]

Yea but you never know. They are hiring about 800 extra on top of normal attrition hiring over the next five years. So if I go in with good marks, lots of volenteering time, 6 years in the CF res and a tour to AStan I'm pretty sure they'd be interested in hiring me at 22/23. But if that doesn't work then yea reg force for a couple years, why not.
do it man.
we can bunk together, and tell stories, and share recipes. so on and so forth

[Resevoir Hogs]

super dupper man. We'll pull tobagans for weeks on end, it'll be a blast.

[Kingswat]

lol





and that eagle 4 looks cool, is it north american design or something european? i can't find any info about it on google.

[Tracker 23A]

lol





and that eagle 4 looks cool, is it north american design or something european? i can't find any info about it on google.


try harder...

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/mowag/mowag4.html

http://www.mowag.ch/En/02_ProdukteEn/EAGLE4x4En/EAGLE4x4En.htm

those are just two. Here is a group of photos:

http://www.mowag.ch/En/07_BilderEn/07-01_Frameset.htm

look under Eagle IV Recce

[Kingswat]

lol





and that eagle 4 looks cool, is it north american design or something european? i can't find any info about it on google.


try harder...

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/mowag/mowag4.html

http://www.mowag.ch/En/02_ProdukteEn/EAGLE4x4En/EAGLE4x4En.htm

those are just two. Here is a group of photos:

http://www.mowag.ch/En/07_BilderEn/07-01_Frameset.htm

look under Eagle IV Recce


well, i looked for an hour the other day and the closest i got to anything military was a pic of the F-15.


thanks for the links though.

[Resevoir Hogs]

It's not only better defended but it can also carry a bigger payload than the hummer.