Good old MiG-29 photos

[Kingpin]

As free addition to discussion about their capabilities which started here.

http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/10b.jpg



http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/11b.jpg



http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/09b.jpg



http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/16b.jpg



http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/18b.jpg



http://www.migavia.ru/im/photo/47b.jpg

[Marmot1]

http://www.damir.co.uk/images/aviation/riat-2000/mig-29-taxiing.jpg
http://www.nd.edu/~afrotc/photos/AF%20Pics/mig-29-burning-1.jpg
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-5/Aeroindia/MiG-29.jpg
http://www.flygplan.info/images/MIG-29-2.jpg
http://www.air-and-space.com/19991105%20red%20flag/mig-29%20al.jpg
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-29-DFST8906399_JPG.jpg
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-29-DDST8708703_JPG.jpg
http://www.telcom.es/~jcastjr/aviones/mig-29.jpg
http://menua.aic.net/air/mig/mig-29.jpg
http://www.mig.km.ru/photovideo/mig-29/mig-29.jpg
http://www.airventure.de/varloese02/mig-29+23-02av.jpg
http://www.aviation.ru/MiG/29/MiG-29.JPG
http://robert.bk-s.tudelft.nl/spotting/Russia/images/Mig-29-2.jpg
http://www.kvvaiu.net/foto/gif_priv/horvat/MIG%2029%20color2.jpg
http://www.ad-ita.it/lockon_area/images/modelli/MiG-29-6.jpg
http://www.warmachines.50g.com/planes/mig-29/mig-29_4.jpg
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/mig-29_in04.jpg
http://www.sky-flash.com/airshows/cottesmore2001/pictures/36.jpg
http://www.lpds.sztaki.hu/~zsnemeth/airshow/kecskemet/mig29_a.jpg
HAVE FUN :lol:

[Parzival]

Has the british airforce MIg 29??

[unwanted]

Great pics .. Its the worlds most beautifull fighter jet imho .. It got curves like a really nice lady ....


Has the british airforce MIg 29??

Do you see any RAF marks on those Mig´s ???

[flickme]

Ive heard the cockpits in those things are a real mess(electronics, controls) . Anyone know anything about that.

[Uninen]

That MiG-29 in flames..

It was during display..

2 of them collied as they passed very close..
(just touched a little in high speed.. the intention was to pass in 1m distance..)

:cantbeli:

But nice pics..

I have them all in vid..

rofl

[-Max2-]

Great pics... :)

[Parzival]

Great pics .. Its the worlds most beautifull fighter jet imho .. It got curves like a really nice lady ....


Has the british airforce MIg 29??

Do you see any RAF marks on those Mig´s ???
Yea, you right ;
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/mig-29_in04.jpg

The France or british airforce right?

[-Max2-]

The France or british airforce right?

No, Indian Air Force.

[MolliG]

MiG-29 = Sweetest plane in Lock On :D. My sig' is what I often here when my German MiG (Fulcrum A) takes on a Russian one (Fulcrum C), and I come out worse, the Russian one is just minus an Archer :P.

;)

[Adri]

MiG-29 = Sweetest plane in Lock On :D. My sig' is what I often here when my German MiG (Fulcrum A) takes on a Russian one (Fulcrum C), and I come out worse, the Russian one is just minus an Archer :P.

;)

no way, thats the SU-27 and you know it ;)
but hope the ED team makes F-16 flyable !!!!

[Parzival]

The France or british airforce right?

No, Indian Air Force.
Ah LOL, They looks almost the same as the RAF. :) Hehe, My fauilt.

[MolliG]

no way, thats the SU-27 and you know it ;)
but hope the ED team makes F-16 flyable !!!!

I prefer the 33 over the 27, much more sexier and capable. :P

[BlackRain]

MIG 29 Air Combat Photos

"Four F-16AMs of the Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) were among the first NATO aircraft to enter Serbian airspace on the night of 24 March. Within minutes, the Dutch had achieved their first air-to-air victory since World War II, shooting down a Serbian MiG-29. Source: http://www.aeronautics.ru/dutchf16mig29.htm

---------------------------------------------

By 17:00 03.26.99 one Yugoslav MiG-29 was lost 13km south of Bogatic. The aircraft was downed by three F-16s at 7100m - this kill is attributed to a Dutch F-16 fighter ( http://www.aeronautics.ru/dutchf16mig29.htm ) . The aircraft was piloted by Major Zoran Radosavljevic. The aircraft possibly crashed in Bosnia near Ugljevik.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29bosnia10.jpg MIG 29 flown by Major Zoran Radosavljevic

-----------------------------------------------

On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E) in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of F-15Cs. More info and a photo here. Several photos of the "first" MiG-29 (piloted by Lt. Col. Peric) shot down over Bosnia were released by NATO.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29bosnia6.jpg MIG 29 Flown By Lt. Col. Peric

------------------------------------


An F-16CJ from the 31st Air Expeditionary Wing's 78th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron here shot down a MiG-29 on May 4 1999. An F-16 four-ship formation was on its way to a tanker when a NATO early warning aircraft said a hostile aircraft was airborne. The formation broke off refueling and intercepted the aircraft, shooting it down over northern Serbia, near Belgrade. According to the 78th EFS pilot, he couldn't have done this without the support of his flight. "Flying wise, this is the top of the pyramid," he said. The aircraft arrived here from Shaw Air Force Base, S.C., April 16 and began flying operations within 48 hours.
The F-16CJs from the 78th EFS and the 23rd EFS from Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, are responsible for defending against two primary threats during combat -- air-to-air and surface-to-air. When flying air-to-air missions, the pilot is responsible for patrolling a specific area in case of an enemy aircraft launch. When flying air-to-surface missions, the pilot is responsible for eliminating surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft batteries."

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29nikolic05.jpg

On 10th October 1997 the United States Government signed an agreement with the Republic of Moldova to purchase 21 MiG-29 aircraft. Personnel from the National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC) at Wright Patterson AFB, OH tested and studied all elements of the MiG-29 Fulcrums.

Six Yugoslavian MiG-29 were shot down, one crashed on approach and a total of four were destroyed on the ground during Allied Force in March 1999.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[hedgehog]

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/index_e.html

[Javehn]

I don't see "kill marks" on the MigS ... ;)
Interesting , what this plane capable to do , with Russian "body" and our "mind" (electronics) . It can be very powerfull peace of plane . Isn't India suppose to by about 30 peaces of Mig29 until 2008 ? They all do they improvments in our factories , perhaps it can be the most powerfull aircraft exists ...

[GazB]

"Ive heard the cockpits in those things are a real mess(electronics, controls) . Anyone know anything about that."

Their cockpits are fully standardised... from prop trainers through to jet trainers, fighters etc etc. The layout is different from western aircraft, but a pilot can get into an aircraft he has never flown and know where the instruments are and what they do. Obviously going from a L-29 trainer to a Mig-25 would mean that the airspeed guage went from subsonic to mach 3, but the intruments would nto be a surprise.

"That MiG-29 in flames..

It was during display..

2 of them collied as they passed very close..
(just touched a little in high speed.. the intention was to pass in 1m distance..) "

Actually the display was done in low cloud and one pilot had lost sight of the other and the rear aircraft looped tighter than he should have to avoid entering the cloud... he couldn't see his wingman so inside cloud was the last place he should go. Unknown to him he was turning inside his wingman and when he completed the loop and was level again and decided to pull away and abort the display he flew into his wingman. Several things went wrong... including a Helicopter on the ground transmiting on their frequency that stopped them talking to each other. A guy on the ground with a radio could not be heard either as the radio he was using did not have power. At the end of the day the ejection seats functioned perfectly and noone was hurt on the ground and that is all that matters.

Regarding the Migs performance in Serbia the aircraft were in such a poor state that the commander of the unit was put on trial for negligence. Few of the Migs that the serbians took to the air in had working radars... vs NATO and teh US with AWACS and jammers etc etc. They didn't have a chance... and the only fixed wing manned aircraft lost in this combat were an F-117 stealth aircraft knocked down probably by unguided SA-3s and an F-16 brought down by an SA-6. Lots of UAVs and Cruise missiles were brought down too.

[mustamato]

"On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by
two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E)
in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in
Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks
aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in
Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on
the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found
only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot
down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of
F-15Cs. More info and a photo here. Several photos of the "first" MiG-29
(piloted by Lt. Col. Peric) shot down over Bosnia were released by NATO."

MiG-29 kills are not very many I guess. Is this the only known one?

[DLodge]

On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by
two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E)
in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in
Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks
aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in
Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on
the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found
only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot
down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of
F-15Cs.

There were no F-15E losses in Bosnia/Kosovo.

[Kenshin]

MIG-29 is one my FAV along with SU's.. Here is from the Russian Aviation Page:



MiG-29s have seen limited combat on at least four occasions:
(1) Syrian Air Force MiG-29s were the first to see combat, against the F-15s and F-16s of the Israelis during 1990-91 in a number of small air battles over the Golan region and/or southwestern Lebanon. Rumor has it (unconfirmed) that at least one MiG-29 was shot down, probably by an F-15C.

(2) Iraqi Air Force MiG-29s were, of course, involved in Operation Desert Storm, when 5 of their number were shot down in aerial combat during the first 3 days of the war. A sixth crashed itself during an air-to-air engage- ment against an F-15E strike package (in the process, managing to shoot down its own wingman, a MiG-23 "Flogger," and the only confirmed "kill" by a MiG-29 to date. At least five or six others were destroyed on the ground, and four flew to Iran (including one MiG-29UB "Fulcrum-B."

(3) Yugoslavian Air Force MiG-29s saw combat as ground-support fighters during the early stages of the war in Croatia and Bosnia. At least one was shot down by ground fire, and the others have all gone to seed in Serbia. None were involved in air-to-air engagements.

(4) A dozen ex-Moldovan MiG-29s were sold to secessionist rebels in southern Yemen in 1994, and piloted by Moldovan mercenary pilots. One of these was shot down on a ground support mission, and six others were destroyed on the ground when government forces recaptured the Southern capital of Aden. The remaining five are now in storage, and will probably be re-sold.

Iraq took delivery of its first 18 "Fulcrums" in 1987, the year before the Iran-Iraq War ended, so it's possible that some Iraqi MiG-29s saw limited ser- vice in the war, but given the time necessary to train pilots and ground crew, and make new aircraft operational, it's likely that the war ended before the MiGs saw any serious fighting. Also, by that time, the Iranian Air Force was almost non-operational due to a lack of spares and a conservative use doctrine, and so air-to-air engagements were fleeting and usually not decisive.

MiG-29s may also have seen limited combat in the Chechnya operation last year in Russia, although it seems that Su-27s and MiG-31s were used in the CAP role, while Su-24s and Su-25s were the main ground attack machines. If any "Fulcrums" saw combat, their numbers were extremely small.

There are NO confirmed or unconfirmed reports of any MiG-29 kills in any theater of conflict, while at least 6 have been shot down by other fighters.*

[Armour recon]

Ive heard the cockpits in those things are a real mess(electronics, controls) . Anyone know anything about that.


Check this site:
http://e.1asphost.com/migalley/mig29a_cockpit.html

[Marmot1]

On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by
two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E)
in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in
Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks
aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in
Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on
the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found
only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot
down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of
F-15Cs.

There were no F-15E losses in Bosnia/Kosovo.

So how you explain annyal inspection sign???

BTW when F-117 was lost US also denied this to the time when Serb TV aired a short movie with the remaining of wreckage...

Sometimes military just do not say everything. This year my coworker was ex marine his name was "Richard"
he served in germany in 1989 and then in desert storm, he told me thad during his deployment in germany he was on the border with east germany and ne day firefight started with russians apperently after russian provocation even atack helicopter was used to take out sentry tower on the russian side of border... after half an hour they received order to stop shooting and russians also stoped at the same time... there were 4 US KIA 1 was send to home as a casaulty of accident at shooting range 2 were send as a trafic accident casaulties and last one as an casaulty during training with explosives... next day all soldiers were gathered and debriefed that nothing hapened las evening and if any of them tell something about this "accident" will be prosecuted and military will deny this fact.. when he spoken with other soldiers who were there (on border) longer they said that things like this one happen couple times a year, usualy when russians do something there is US retaliation but firefight never last longer than 30 min becouse of non written "tradition"

This guy who told me that wasn't a crazy tennager with fantasies, he was around 40 so I have no reason to not trust to what he said... he also said that when he was in IRAQ he smuggled two AK-47 to home. I have seen and also shoot from those AK so to this time everything what he said was true.

[Praxus32]

You mean he was actually 40, or he claimed that he was 40?

I found a photo of the inspection thing that is claimed to be on an F-15...

http://www.aeronautics.ru/fakemigwreck.jpg

No way that can't be faked, its impossible! :roll:

[Marmot1]

You mean he was actually 40, or he claimed that he was 40?

I found a photo of the inspection thing that is claimed to be on an F-15...

http://www.aeronautics.ru/fakemigwreck.jpg

No way that can't be faked, its impossible! :roll:
no he was around 40 maybe less maybe little more hid doughter was 16 so he probably was no less than 35 and about this inspection all rusian planes have everything written in russian unles they are serviced in other country but yugoslavia service them in serbia so there rather should not be any english text on Mig-29... and this picture was shown AFAIK as a second 29 shot down..... so if it's not a mig what is this???

[Praxus32]

They could have just painted it on there.

Keep in mind this is a country that claimed they shot down 80 NATO fighters, when in reality it wasn't even close to that number.

[Marmot1]

They could have just painted it on there.

Keep in mind this is a country that claimed they shot down 80 NATO fighters, when in reality it wasn't even close to that number.

yeah but at least couple were shot down... F-117 for sure, some UAV (1 is on display in museum in belgrad :-) ) and some helicopters...

Edit:

So far NATO officials acknowledged losing three combat planes (the USAF F-117A on March 27, the USMC AV-8B Harrier on May 1, and the F-16CG-40-CF on May 2), two attack helicopters (AH-64 Apache on April 26 and another Apache on May 5), between 30 and 32 unmanned reconnaissance vehicles, including at least 16 American, 7 German, and 5 French UAVs. Interestingly enough NATO acknowledged all of the UAV losses mentioned by Yugoslav military officials - 30 - and, perhaps, even more.

[Marmot1]

MIG-29 dummy prepared in garage...
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit1.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit3.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit2.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit4.jpg
Towed on position...
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit5.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit6.jpg
And nato has confirmed kill...

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit8.jpg
rofl rofl rofl

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/countingmigs.htm
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/tim001.htm

[DLodge]

So far NATO officials acknowledged losing three combat planes (the USAF F-117A on March 27, the USMC AV-8B Harrier on May 1, and the F-16CG-40-CF on May 2), two attack helicopters (AH-64 Apache on April 26 and another Apache on May 5), between 30 and 32 unmanned reconnaissance vehicles, including at least 16 American, 7 German, and 5 French UAVs. Interestingly enough NATO acknowledged all of the UAV losses mentioned by Yugoslav military officials - 30 - and, perhaps, even more.

There were two allied combat losses of manned aircraft during Operation Allied Force; the F-16 and the F-117. The other aircraft were lost in accidents, not thanks to hostile fire. Anything else, particularly if it involves a ludicrous story of a NATO cover-up, is total bull****.

[Marmot1]

So far NATO officials acknowledged losing three combat planes (the USAF F-117A on March 27, the USMC AV-8B Harrier on May 1, and the F-16CG-40-CF on May 2), two attack helicopters (AH-64 Apache on April 26 and another Apache on May 5), between 30 and 32 unmanned reconnaissance vehicles, including at least 16 American, 7 German, and 5 French UAVs. Interestingly enough NATO acknowledged all of the UAV losses mentioned by Yugoslav military officials - 30 - and, perhaps, even more.

There were two allied combat losses of manned aircraft during Operation Allied Force; the F-16 and the F-117. The other aircraft were lost in accidents, not thanks to hostile fire. Anything else, particularly if it involves a ludicrous story of a NATO cover-up, is total bull****.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/official/lostplanes.htm

Well 2 are confirmed in 100% but how many are unconfirmd???

of coure NATO will only confirm loses that they cannot deny but if there is possibility to do that why hide do this...

And relax... every army is trying to hide own loses and prove that enemy lost 2 times more than he lost in reality... as we all know now, succesful campaign in kosovo was a bul****... and yugoslavian army was not destroyed AND THEY LOST LESS THAN 20% OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT so it is hard to call it succes if you compare this number of aircrafts used and cost of whole operacion... well I can ever say that NATO lost more $ in equipment and $ spend for operation than the total $ lost and spend by yugoslavia...

[Praxus32]

Now your going to pretend everyone damaged was faked and was in reality shot down :roll: ?

That site only shows 2 shot down and destroyed.


yeah but at least couple were shot down... F-117 for sure, some UAV (1 is on display in museum in belgrad ) and some helicopters

No one is disputing that a couple were shot down, but the fact is these conspericy theories are utter BULL ****.

[Pille1234]

And relax... every army is trying to hide own loses and prove that enemy lost 2 times more than he lost in reality... as we all know now, succesful campaign in kosovo was a bul****... and yugoslavian army was not destroyed AND THEY LOST LESS THAN 20% OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT so it is hard to call it succes if you compare this number of aircrafts used and cost of whole operacion... well I can ever say that NATO lost more $ in equipment and $ spend for operation than the total $ lost and spend by yugoslavia...
Well, your last sentence is probalbly true for desert storm and iraqi freedom too, but wouldn't you call those operations a success? At least, from a military point of view (not talking about building up a democratic iraq)
And to Kosovo, well the yugoslavian army left Kosovo without NATO ground troops. Mission goal archieved -> mission success. Nato human losses due to enemy fire? 0 or 1? I don't know, but thats not too much i guess.

[DLodge]

Well 2 are confirmed in 100% but how many are unconfirmd???

of coure NATO will only confirm loses that they cannot deny but if there is possibility to do that why hide do this...

And relax... every army is trying to hide own loses and prove that enemy lost 2 times more than he lost in reality... as we all know now, succesful campaign in kosovo was a bul****... and yugoslavian army was not destroyed AND THEY LOST LESS THAN 20% OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT so it is hard to call it succes if you compare this number of aircrafts used and cost of whole operacion... well I can ever say that NATO lost more $ in equipment and $ spend for operation than the total $ lost and spend by yugoslavia...

First of all, it's ridiculous to suggest that NATO could cover-up the loss of an aircraft even if it wanted to. At best they could keep the information suppressed for a few days.

Secondly, to say the "succesful campaign in kosovo was a bul**** [sic]" is absurd. The objective of Operation Allied Force was never to destroy the vaunted Yugoslav army, merely to stop its campaign of ethnic cleansing. Did the allies accomplish that objective? Yes and no.

If you want an unbiased look at the successes and failures of Allied Force take a look at this analysis by the RAND Corporation, one of the top defense think tanks in Washington.

On March 24, 1999, NATO forces initiated an air war against Serbia in an effort to put an end to the human rights abuses that were then being perpetrated against the ethnic Albanian population in Kosovo. This bombing effort, code-named Operation Allied Force, ended 78 days later with the capitulation of Yugoslavia’s president, Slobodan Milosevic, and the subsequent withdrawal of Serbian army and paramilitary forces from Kosovo. Yet despite its success in bringing about Milosevic’s defeat, Operation Allied Force was a suboptimal use of air power to resolve a regional conflict. Although NATO’s air offensive ultimately proved crucial to Milosevic’s decision to submit to NATO’s terms, a host of deficiencies—both strategic and operational—protracted the air effort and hampered its overall effectiveness. Figure 1 shows a map of the immediate area of operations.

The study undertook a thorough appraisal of Operation Allied Force, with a view toward shedding light both on the operation’s strengths and on its most salient weaknesses. After outlining the main highlights of NATO’s air offensive, it examined the various factors that interacted to induce Milosevic to capitulate when he did. It then explored air power’s most notable accomplishments in Allied Force, as well as the many problems and sources of friction that hindered the operation both in its planning and in its execution. Finally, the research assessed Operation Allied Force from a political and strategic perspective, calling attention to those issues that are likely to have the greatest bearing on future military policymaking.

Why Milosevic Conceded: A Step Back

Although NATO’s bombing effort in the end played the determining role in bringing about Milosevic’s defeat, a host of additional factors also figured importantly in this respect. In addition to the damage that was being wrought by NATO’s air attacks, for example, another factor that very likely contributed to Milosevic’s surrender was the sheer depravity of Serbia’s conduct in Kosovo, which ultimately stripped it of what little remained of international support, most notably from the Russians. Yet another element that may have come into play was pressure from Yugoslavia’s elite, on whom NATO’s bombing of key industrial and economic interests in and around Belgrade had begun to take an intensely personal toll.

Milosevic was, in addition, almost surely aware of the growing potential for a ground invasion as NATO’s air war progressed. By the end of May 1999, it had become clear that NATO had increasingly accepted the need to go ahead with a ground invasion in the event that its air effort alone failed to bring about a decisive outcome. Although senior officials in Washington remained highly resistant to proceeding with that course right up the very end, Milosevic cannot have failed to apprehend the implications of such a possibility.


At the same time, Milosevic was bearing witness to an escalating air war that showed no signs of abating (Figure 2). Although NATO’s efforts to find and attack dispersed and hidden enemy forces in Kosovo had proved largely ineffective, an increasing number of infrastructure targets were being hit each day, and these attacks were taking a mounting toll both on Yugoslavia’s leadership and on the population as a whole. It is thus likely that NATO’s air offensive ultimately convinced Milosevic that the alliance not only intended to persist in its attacks but was determined to prevail. In the end, the sustained bombing, although by no means the sole factor responsible for the success of Allied Force, set the stage for Milosevic’s capitulation by making it clear that he had little to gain by holding out.¹

Operational Issues: The Air War in Action

Much of the controversy surrounding Operation Allied Force has pivoted on the discrepancy between what the NATO allies expected and what they ultimately encountered. Although NATO initially sought to neutralize Serbia’s air defenses, the alliance soon discovered that the Serbs kept most of their surface-to-air missiles dispersed with their radars not emitting, rendering them difficult to find and attack. At the same time, the Serbs’ heavy man-portable air defenses and antiaircraft artillery forced NATO aircrews to conduct bombing attacks from an altitude of 15,000 ft or higher, which sometimes hampered the visual identification of targets and the ability to distinguish between military convoys and civilian refugees. Mobile enemy troops in Kosovo also proved to be more capable and tenacious foes than had been anticipated. Operating under the cover of inclement weather and shielded by mountainous terrain, Serb forces were frequently able to disperse and conceal their weapons, thereby eluding allied efforts to find and attack them in a timely way. This shortcoming protracted the overall allied effort, eventually occasioning a more determined pursuit of infrastructure targets in and around Belgrade.

Despite unprecedented pressure to avoid civilian casualties and unintended collateral damage, Operation Allied Force also fell prey to a number of bombing errors, including the widely publicized inadvertent bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Although some of these errors were a natural consequence of NATO-imposed operational constraints and Serbia’s uncongenial spring weather, the extraordinary media attention that was paid to them further detracted from the overall effectiveness of the campaign by starkly showing what can happen when achieving zero collateral damage becomes not just a desired goal of allied strategy but also the expectation.

Strategic Issues: An Overview

Operation Allied Force left in its wake a number of questions regarding its overall strategy and execution. To begin with, allied planners erred badly at the very outset of the campaign by failing to appreciate Kosovo’s profound historical and cultural significance to the Serbs. This critical error in judgment led to the allies’ flawed assumption that Milosevic would capitulate to NATO demands without the need for an aggressive or protracted engagement. NATO’s operation in Kosovo was further hampered by the need to achieve consensus among its politically diverse member states, many of which were hesitant to use significant force in what was essentially a humanitarian operation. This requirement for unanimity on at least the basics of allied strategy led not only to the outright rejection of a ground option from the very start but also to the imposition of exceptionally stringent rules of engagement. Added to this mix of coalition restraints were internal disagreements within the U.S. component of the alliance over target priorities and broader force employment strategy, which further undermined the effectiveness of NATO’s efforts.

NATO’s Air War in Perspective

Operation Allied Force was the most intense and sustained military operation to have been conducted in Europe since the end of World War II. It also represented the first extended use of military force by NATO as well as the first time air forces had successfully coerced an enemy leader in the absence of significant friendly ground-force involvement. Although the operation failed to halt Milosevic’s ethnic cleansing campaign, it succeeded in reversing that campaign by forcing Milosevic to accede to NATO’s demands.

At the same time, NATO’s air war suffered from a number of critical shortcomings. On an operational level, the allies’ attempts to find and attack dispersed and hidden enemy ground forces in Kosovo proved largely unsuccessful, enabling Milosevic to accelerate his ethnic cleansing campaign against the Kosovar Albanians even as NATO’s bombing efforts intensified. On a strategic level, the operation’s desultory onset, restrictive rules of engagement, and ill-conceived strategy hobbled the allies’ effort by compromising their ability to engage a wily and determined foe. In the end, Operation Allied Force’s most noteworthy distinction may lie in the fact that the bombing effort prevailed despite the myriad impediments it faced. In light of that, perhaps the most telling lesson to be drawn from Operation Allied Force is that however capable air forces may have become in principle compared to other force elements, they can never be more effective than the strategy they are intended to support.

If you want to read the entire report, go to http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1365/ where you can download it as a pdf file.

[Midav]

As much as the Serbs were showing off any and all aircraft downed, any other downed aircraft would have been filmed as well.

They even claimed to have shot down a B-2.

Heh, think the F-117 was shown enough on TV, a downed B-2 would have put that to shame.

As the saying goes, I'll believe it when I see it and nothing was coughed up.

[GazB]

As far as I know most of the wild claims for NATO kills were not released by the Serbs. It is individuals like Venik that release "facts" like B-2s being shot down. The facts remain that the Serbs shot down very large numbers of UAVs, and they managed to get an F-117 and an F-16. The fact that the NATO forces were flying above 20,000ft because of the danger of the Serb air defence forces, which were never defeated during the whole operation and the fact that they were forced to fly high meant they were regularly fooled into attacking fake targets sometimes multiple times and also more seriously the wrong targets liek Albanians on tractors suggests they aren't the all powerful force they were once thought to be. They even refused outright to use ground forces. It was discarded as an option very early on. If the Russians hadn't gotten involved and gotten the serbs to sign the peace treaty they might still be getting bombed now.

The UAVs shot down were of great use to the Serbs and at least a few Third generation Thermal imaging cameras went to Moscow as a result. I think they wre more likely to be the source of the English language inspection panel. Some of the UAVs used were very large, and have internal equipment that needs inspection too.

[mustamato]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit6.jpg

Whoaa. Talk about a beautiful dummy aircraft. Never knew that they
put down that much effort on it.

[cold0]

For total losses of Mig-29s in air-to-air combat we must included the Eritrean MIGs downed by Ethiopina Su-27 (4 plus one written off due to damage of enemy air-to-air missile). For the clash of 26 march 1996 it's well documented and everyone can find the story and the pilots' interviews on internet. During the clach Captain Hwang, flying a F-15C, shooted down two Mig-29s in BVR engagement, using two AIM-120; all MIGs chrashed in Bosnia and there are many photos of the two chash sites. There are two stories about why the MIGs entered the Bosnia airspace: the first one claim that the Serbs were following a frech Mirage IV that egressed the Serb airspace, the second that the MIG's were trying to shoot down a NATO vulnerable assets (a tankers oa an AWACS). The serbs never claimed to have downed a enemy aircraft during this engagment.

[Kingpin]

As far as I know most of the wild claims for NATO kills were not released by the Serbs. It is individuals like Venik that release "facts" like B-2s being shot down. The facts remain that the Serbs shot down very large numbers of UAVs, and they managed to get an F-117 and an F-16. The fact that the NATO forces were flying above 20,000ft because of the danger of the Serb air defence forces, which were never defeated during the whole operation and the fact that they were forced to fly high meant they were regularly fooled into attacking fake targets sometimes multiple times and also more seriously the wrong targets liek Albanians on tractors suggests they aren't the all powerful force they were once thought to be. They even refused outright to use ground forces. It was discarded as an option very early on. If the Russians hadn't gotten involved and gotten the serbs to sign the peace treaty they might still be getting bombed now.

The UAVs shot down were of great use to the Serbs and at least a few Third generation Thermal imaging cameras went to Moscow as a result. I think they wre more likely to be the source of the English language inspection panel. Some of the UAVs used were very large, and have internal equipment that needs inspection too.

BTW if you don't know Venik are working for Boeing in Chinook program. So we can consider him as an insider :)

[Kingpin]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/mig29kit2.jpg

Note amount of noses prepared. Seems they produced a lot of such fakes. So almost any Serbs aircraft counted as destroyed on the gronud are fakes.

[cold0]

Well, the Mig29 is pratically out of service in the Serbs airforce, so we can estimates that 4-6 Fulcrum were destroyed on the ground (with a good number of fake aircrafts). One was sure destroyed by a cruise missile lauched using the image send by a UAV, flying above a serb airport. The action was described in a old issue of Airforce Montly. The Mig21 fleet survived the war in a better shape; in many cases the complex Yugo HAS (pratically reinforced subterrean caves) survived the direct hit of NATO LGBs, especially in the Kosovo airport 8I don't remember the name).

Regards,

[Adri]

I think that a unknowed number of downed aircrafts are fake numbers on bouth sides, it is called propaganda and is used in EVERY war.
but I don't know how many, maby just one or maby more.

[cold0]

Yes, Adri, but the Serbs have admitted the Fulcrum losses in air-to air combat aganst the NATO fighters (so the number of 6 MIG29s loss is confirmed) and, today, they claim only two NATO aircraft shooted down (the F177 and the F16, each downed with a SA-3 GOA), plus numerous UAV and one o more damaged A-10. These losses tally with the losses admitted by NATO.

Regards,