Mi - 24 PN

[zealot]

This is the latest upgrade for the Hind - in service w/ Russian Army, field tested/used in Chechnya. So far abt 5 to 10 hinds have been upgraded to this standard, with further 15 to be completed by the end of the year.
The upgrade consists of:

http://www.zenit-foto.ru/img/specials/avia/bzarevo.jpg
Zarevo (produced by Zenit) stabilized electro-optical turret in the nose with laser rangefinder and FLIR
- New 1,838kW TV3-117VMA-SB3 (VK-2500) engines
- Rotors from the Mi-28N: X-type tail rotor and composite blade main rotor
- Shorter stub wings with the armament options of the Mi-28N (16 Ataka ATGMs outboard and 2 B-8V20A rocket pods inboard being typical)
- GPS
- New BREhO-24 avionics complex, with an LCD MFD, and NVG compatible cockpit lighting
- New radios
- Lightweight, fixed landing gear
- Restoration to full time between overhaul service life (1,000 hours, or 7 years)


http://www.photoka.info/mi24pn/images/mi24pn_01.jpg

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http://www.photoka.info/mi24pn/images/mi24pn_38.jpg

http://www.photoka.info/mi24pn/images/mi24pn_39.jpg

http://heliborne.portland.co.uk/images/mi24pn.jpg

http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/photos/2001-maks-mi24pn.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/3628/533010370ns.jpg

http://images.janes.com/aerospace/military/gallery/maks/images/mi_24pn.jpg

http://www.airshow.ru/expo/303/images/prod_676_250.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/i/ah/mi24pn-i.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/mi24pn/mi24pn-2.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/mi24pn/mi24pn-1.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/4/7/503745.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/mi24pn/mi24pn-4.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/mi24pn/mi24pn-5.jpg

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/mi24pn/mi24pn-6.jpg

http://www.heliborne.ru/images/rstv-02sm.jpg

http://img.lenta.ru/russia/2004/02/04/mi/picture.jpg

http://www.popov.org/photo/5559/mi-helicopter-24.3.jpg

http://www.tassphoto.com/preview.php4?filename=d185/481.JPG&ID=S0035715

http://www.tassphoto.com/preview.php4?filename=d185/482.JPG&ID=S0035713

http://www.tassphoto.com/preview.php4?filename=d185/687.JPG&ID=S00358BB

[CG51]

Great pics zealot! Hind is a great gunship, robust and reliable. Always been one of my favorites.

[VaLiancY]

Great pictures. I <3 the Hind. What a beautiful aircraft. :O

[Snoshi]

Great pictures. I <3 the Hind. What a beautiful aircraft. :O

Yeah i agree

[PeterG]

Great pics zealot! Hind is a great gunship, robust and reliable. Always been one of my favorites.

Beautiful pics! Damn..But isn't it a little strange to have fixed 23mm cannons? I would think it could engage targets far more effectively if the guns were turret mounted - like the variant with a 12.7mm minigun.

[He219]

latest upgrade for the Hind ...
What, no exhaust IR covers?

http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24056.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24055.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24057.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24064.jpg

[Catch22]

Beautiful pics! Damn..But isn't it a little strange to have fixed 23mm cannons? I would think it could engage targets far more effectively if the guns were turret mounted - like the variant with a 12.7mm minigun.

I was wondering the same thing. Turreted weapons seem to be a more flexible platform, you don't have to aim with whole helo. I understand they found out that they need cannon instead of 12,7 gatling but why they couldnt design a new platform instead just adopting the aircraft twin barreled static 23mm?

[V/E]

Great pictures on an beautiful chopper, thanks

[JoaMei]

I was wondering the same thing. Turreted weapons seem to be a more flexible platform, you don't have to aim with whole helo. I understand they found out that they need cannon instead of 12,7 gatling but why they couldnt design a new platform instead just adopting the aircraft twin barreled static 23mm?

Probably structural reasons, not only the 23mm is more heavy but the new turret and Ammo would be too.

[Bluezoo]

Excellent pictures! They used to call these birds in Afganistan as the "devil's chariot". The fire power was overwhelming!:)

[shadower]

Grat pics of my favorite helo!
THANX!!!

[Vintendo]

Looking good. They are such bad-ass looking helos. What do they use the troop compartment for these days?

[zealot]

During the afghan conflict russian military insisted on fitting the helicopter with a built-in GSh-30(30 mm) , it was highly praised by flying crews in Aghanistan who wanted more powerfull round to begin with


Probably structural reasons, not only the 23mm is more heavy but the new turret and Ammo would be too.


yes indeed the turret couldnt handle gsh-30 and its ammo load, therefore ammo is stored in the compartment bellow the pilots seat...

[ranger75bn]

VERY VERY nice helo no doubt

[Telnyashka]

Excellent pictures! They used to call these birds in Afganistan as the "devil's chariot". The fire power was overwhelming!:)

Yup, if it wasn't for these babies flying in Spetsnaz, Afghanistan war would have been a much much bloodier war than it turned out.

Good upgrade too, bringing the Mi-24 to modern standards

[socom6]

Wow very detailed pics of these updated Hinds.:)

[larryzou]

Excellent pictures! thinks .

[speckfire]

Very impressive bird. Thanks for the pics

[sergey31]

There is version with 23mm front turret, I think it's manufactured side by side just like the older versions (30mm and 12.7mm were made at the same time)
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24104.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24103.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24089.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Rt24/907148.jpg

[el_kab0ng]

Mean looking bird, no doubt.. but susceptible to man portable surface-to-air missiles (ie Stinger). Most of the newer Mi24's have the heat dispersal cowlings over the exhaust nozzles to lower the heat signature (at least the one's I've seen in operation over Chechnya).

[MK-ULTRA]

Fixed canon seems to be a logical solution for a single seat attack chopper like the Ka-50 but on a twin seat attack helicopter, I really don't get it.

Also, why the fixed landing gear? Reliability?

Nice pix.

[sergey31]

Ka 50 30mm gun is not fixed, it moves up and down and a bit to the side...
Landing gear is fixed to save weight and to absorb more of impact when the chopper makes hard landing.

[GazB]

Beautiful pics! Damn..But isn't it a little strange to have fixed 23mm cannons? I would think it could engage targets far more effectively if the guns were turret mounted - like the variant with a 12.7mm minigun.

First of all the twin gun mounted on the side of these helos is 30mm calibre. The only Hind with 23mm fixed guns does have it mounted in a nose turret.

These aircraft have fixed twin 30mm guns because they had them before the upgrade. These are Mi-24Ps.

The main operational Mi-24s are the Mi-24D, which has a chin mounted 50 cal gatling, called by NATO Hind D. The next major type was the NATO HIND E, which updated the ATGMs from AT-2s to AT-6s and was called Mi-24V. It still had the 50 cal gatling. The next model was the Hind F which had the twin barrel 30mm gun scabbed on the side and that had the designation of Mi-24P (in this case the P stood for cannon armed). The next in line was the Mi-24VP which replaced the chin mounted 50 gun with a chin mounted 23mm cannon in a turret.

The 50 cal gatling was a good weapon but when the enemy are firing back with 50 cal weapons it doesn't give you a nice standoff range advantage that you would like with a helo. The first solution was a 23mm gun in a turret but it had huge feeding problems and couldn't enter service, so they took the 30mm twin barrel gun from the Su-25, reduced its rate of fire to about 2,500rpm and lengthened the barrels and fitted it to the Hind. It is a very powerful and effective weapon. Rate of fire is not important against ground targets... it is more useful against small fast aerial targets, but this weapon is very good. The problem is of course job sharing. In the Hind the pilot operates the fixed weapons and the gunner fires the turreted weapons and the guided weapons. So with a normal Mi-24D the pilot fires the unguided rockets by steering the whole aircraft, and the gunner operates the 50 cal gun and guides the ATGMs to precise targets. In afghanistan a cave or MG or sniper position or the room of a building were often engaged by ATGM.
In the Mi-24P however the gunner only operates the ATGMs and the pilot has control of the gun and the rockets. This is generally too much as he also has to fly the aircraft, so they kept working on the 23mm turret. Eventually the problems were solved and the last model Hind was the Mi-24VP, V for turret and P for cannon armed. The 23mm cannon shell is quite effective and is designed with a heavy projectile for its calibre, which means its HE FRAG rounds are quite good.


What, no exhaust IR covers?


Exhaust covers can be fitted to any model Hind But are generally only fitted in operational areas because they reduce performance.


What do they use the troop compartment for these days?

Reloads, and engineer.The Hind has a normal flight crew of three... pilot, gunner, and flight engineer. Some users, like police or paramilitary units use the crew cabin for troops, but operationally the Soviets don't normally do this any more.


Mean looking bird, no doubt.. but susceptible to man portable surface-to-air missiles (ie Stinger). Most of the newer Mi24's have the heat dispersal cowlings over the exhaust nozzles to lower the heat signature (at least the one's I've seen in operation over Chechnya).

Every Helo is vulnerable to MANPADS. Modern MANPADS no longer need to see an afterburner for a good chance of a hit.


Also, why the fixed landing gear? Reliability?

Improve crash survival chances, as it is designed to collapse and absorb some impact. Also it reduces complication and weight. Have never heard of a Hind having a problem with undercarriage failure.

The main rotor system from the Mi-28 is used because it is lighter and generates more lift. The wings were reduced in size to reduce weight and drag. But because the new wings are the same as those used on the Mi-28 it actually means the upgraded Hind can carry more weapons with a smaller wing rather than less. The old wing was wired for ATGMs on the tips (max of 4 missiles) while the 4 main pylons could carry rocket launchers or twin ATGM launchers on the outer pylons. The max load therefore would be 8 ATGMs and 2 rocket pods or 4 pods and 4 ATGMs. The new wings allow either 4 rocket pods to be carried, or two rocket pods and 16 ATGMs.

The upgrade means that although the hind will be lighter, it will have rather more installed power and new rotors will allow new levels of flight performance.

Moreover because most of the enhancements are based on those designed for the Mi-28 it means that pilots can get used to systems before the enw helos are built, a number of parts will be made in larger numbers, reducing costs, and logistics and maintainence will be improved with experience with working with the parts earlier and with commonality within the fleet as the Mi-28N enters service.


This doesn't even take into account the fact that with a Thermal sight and laser rangefinder even firing Rockets during daytime will be more effective with accurate range information and proper ballistic computers to calculate point of aim.

[theg]

good job man thnxs

[sergey31]

A few more pic of Mi 24's......
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi003.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi005.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi008.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi009.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2001/mi/mi07.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2001/mi/mi01.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2001/mi/mi34.jpg

[zealot]

There is version with 23mm front turret, I think it's manufactured side by side just like the older versions (30mm and 12.7mm were made at the same time)
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24104.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24103.jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/m/mi24089.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Rt24/907148.jpg

...maybe for export but not for service in russian army AFAIK
, this version features Goes-342 (the ball next to the 23mm gun) thermal imaging camera and FLIR, it is the export variant, the same set- up was mounted on several Mi-8/17's that were leased to UN but were abruptly re-claimed at the request of Russian army in Chechnya - due to the lack of night capable choppers. They were so urgently needed that they went into action (in chech) still painted in UN colours -ie. white
Apparently, the Goes set-up offers only limited(if any??) sighting ability as opposed to Zaraevo ....

[hauptman]

very great pics.
I like this helo.

[el_kab0ng]

Every Helo is vulnerable to MANPADS. Modern MANPADS no longer need to see an afterburner for a good chance of a hit.

Hence the "crystal ball" above the exhaust. It's designed to confuse the seeker heads on MANPADS. The heat source is a backup IIRC.

[el_kab0ng]

http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi003.jpg

WTF?

[GazB]

...maybe for export but not for service in russian army AFAIK
, this version features Goes-342 (the ball next to the 23mm gun) thermal imaging camera and FLIR, it is the export variant, the same set- up was mounted on several Mi-8/17's that were leased to UN but were abruptly re-claimed at the request of Russian army in Chechnya - due to the lack of night capable choppers. They were so urgently needed that they went into action (in chech) still painted in UN colours -ie. white
Apparently, the Goes set-up offers only limited(if any??) sighting ability as opposed to Zaraevo ....

Actually the GOES upgrade was a more complete upgrade. The white ball turret shown contains 4 optical windows for Thermal, and TV cameras as well as laser ranging and laser receiving channels. It was offered to the Russian army and included the replacement of the old optical sights with a fully stabilised turret with Night(Thermal), and day time (TV) options with a laser rangefinder and target marker built in.
It wasn't exactly cheap as the TV cameras and Thermals sights were foreign made (South Korea for the TV Camera and Swiss for the Thermal camera).
The Russians however had perfected making second generation Thermal sights and so the Zaraevo was offered with the existing optics as a cheaper option and won the contract.

Both upgrades can be applied to any model Hind but the most common models in service are the Hind Es, the Hind Fs and the new Hinds with the 23mm gun turrets.
The GOES upgrade has the advantage that the day time optics are fully stabilised whereas the standard optics in the hind are not.
This GOES FLIR ball turret was also to be fitted to the Ka-50 Hokum but it was found that the more sophisticated Day time optics in the Shkval-M offered better performance than the TV optics fitted to the GOES ball.


Hence the "crystal ball" above the exhaust. It's designed to confuse the seeker heads on MANPADS. The heat source is a backup IIRC.

The disco ball type IR jammers are only effective against the old model MANPADS like Strela and redeye. They are not effective against missiles like Stinger and Igla.


WTF?

Not sure exactly what that is, but it is where the landing light is on most other Hind models...

[tuercas]

i always wondered why the mi 24 had that retractable landing gear when the mi 8 and western competitors cobra and apache did not . its going to save a lot of weigth . what makes this bird so good looking is that it looks just so pissed off. specially with that new 30mm on the side, sure dont want to be on the angry side of anyone flying this helo. sure wish mexico would fly some, they would look so awsome on us border patrol

[GazB]

i always wondered why the mi 24 had that retractable landing gear when the mi 8 and western competitors cobra and apache did not .

To increase top speed by reducing drag. The Hind was envisioned as being used on the plains of western Europe so speed and firing while flying were seen as more useful than firing from the hover behind something. When you hover you are an easy target for RPGs and even ATGMs. The US has found in Iraq and Afghanistan that hovering is not great. The US TOW missile is wire guided and the European equivelent of HOT is also wire guided so any helo launching such weapons had to hover or risk breaking the wire link. The Hinds are not fitted to fire wire guided ATGMs. The Mi-8 hip can fire the AT-3 which is wire guided but they are rarely fired from forward flight. The Hind uses the AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 ATGMs that are not wire guided.

If Mexico does buy some Hinds can I reccomend the Mi-35M2? It is the latest export model with the GOES turret and the Mi-28 rotor and wings etc. The chin turret mounted twin 23mm cannon is not as powerful as the 30mm but it is rather more powerful than NATO 20mm cannon.

[zealot]

Actually the GOES upgrade was a more complete upgrade. The white ball turret shown contains 4 optical windows for Thermal, and TV cameras as well as laser ranging and laser receiving channels. It was offered to the Russian army and included the replacement of the old optical sights with a fully stabilised turret with Night(Thermal), and day time (TV) options with a laser rangefinder and target marker built in.
It wasn't exactly cheap as the TV cameras and Thermals sights were foreign made (South Korea for the TV Camera and Swiss for the Thermal camera).
The Russians however had perfected making second generation Thermal sights and so the Zaraevo was offered with the existing optics as a cheaper option and won the contract.

Both upgrades can be applied to any model Hind but the most common models in service are the Hind Es, the Hind Fs and the new Hinds with the 23mm gun turrets.
The GOES upgrade has the advantage that the day time optics are fully stabilised whereas the standard optics in the hind are not.
This GOES FLIR ball turret was also to be fitted to the Ka-50 Hokum but it was found that the more sophisticated Day time optics in the Shkval-M offered better performance than the TV optics fitted to the GOES ball.

...

... goes upgrade did seem more sophisticated, but than i found info from a reputable source (can't remember which one) that claims zaraevo to be more sophisticated and better integrated.... but you are probably right ... need to do some research, but the detailed info on both upgrades is scarce ...

[sp2c]

To increase top speed by reducing drag. The Hind was envisioned as being used on the plains of western Europe so speed and firing while flying were seen as more useful than firing from the hover behind something. When you hover you are an easy target for RPGs and even ATGMs. The US has found in Iraq and Afghanistan that hovering is not great. The US TOW missile is wire guided and the European equivelent of HOT is also wire guided so any helo launching such weapons had to hover or risk breaking the wire link. The Hinds are not fitted to fire wire guided ATGMs. The Mi-8 hip can fire the AT-3 which is wire guided but they are rarely fired from forward flight. The Hind uses the AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 ATGMs that are not wire guided.

If Mexico does buy some Hinds can I reccomend the Mi-35M2? It is the latest export model with the GOES turret and the Mi-28 rotor and wings etc. The chin turret mounted twin 23mm cannon is not as powerful as the 30mm but it is rather more powerful than NATO 20mm cannon.

or get Apache which uses a 30 mm chaingun ;)

[Asheren]

WTF?

Maybe some kind of countermesures discharger.

[khukuri]

Maybe some kind of countermesures discharger.

my thoughts exactly, didnt look like a weapon but still some kind of discharger, maybe flares... anybody know?

[CombatBoots]

Could be for illumination flares, not IR decoy type. Cause those are in the dispensers in the back on the sides.

[oldsoak]

Might be recognition flares - useful if you are either in radio silence mode or if your IFF/Radio has been shot to pieces and you dont want to be shot at by friendlies.

[CombatBoots]

Recognition flares? First time I hear that.

[sergey31]

or get Apache which uses a 30 mm chaingun

Not trying to start anything here but Apaches 30mm gun is it's main drawback in terms of accurate and affective firepower. Not a good design whatsoever.

[GazB]

or get Apache which uses a 30 mm chaingun


Not trying to start anything here but Apaches 30mm gun is it's main drawback in terms of accurate and affective firepower. Not a good design whatsoever

The 30mm gun of the apache is a custom designed weapon. It is a low velocity weapon with a relatively heavy projectile and low rate of fire that is intended for use against ground targets. Against ground targets it is a very good weapon though it does lack range due to the low velocity and heavy round. The 30mm cannon shell from the Hind travels at much higher velocity and also has a heavy projectile. Its rate of fire is also considerably higher. This means that it generates more recoil but it is also much more powerful and is very effective against aerial targets as well, whereas the 30mm chaingun on the Apache has less effectiveness against aerial targets and is restricted in range of use.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

One thing that suprises me is they the Russians still use a rivted manufactureing process as opposed to a welding or other modern techniques.

Possibly the only weekness I can see.

[Scrat335]

Why is it a weakness? If memory serves me right the Apache is full of screws/rivets also. It can't make a difference with speed because that is not a great factor in choppers.

Something to do with production? Strenght? Asking not criticizing.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Speaking from experiance (boilermaker by trade) riveted seams are weaker then welded seams. It's also a longer and more expansive process.

Of course where we can see the rivets on these pics they could be carbon fibre, or some other compesite which of course can't be welded. Even then i'm suprised a bonded glue was not used.

[muede]

Recognition flares? First time I hear that.
Its to fire certain number of certain color of flares in certain order, used in WW2 and maybe earlier too.

[Scrat335]

I wonder if it is something to do with required skills. In wartime you want to be able to put things together as quickly as possible.
To rivet something all you need is drill and a riveting tool, to weld a seam you need a welder and a person that has developed the talents for welding not to mention electricity. No electricity, no welding. You can also drill by hand without electricity.

I think perhaps it is to do with available manufacturing tech, I have seen things in Russia on my travels and in my work that really puts in the light the Russian philosophy of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". It must work just fine.

[sergey31]

The 30mm gun of the apache is a custom designed weapon. It is a low velocity weapon with a relatively heavy projectile and low rate of fire that is intended for use against ground targets. Against ground targets it is a very good weapon though it does lack range due to the low velocity and heavy round. The 30mm cannon shell from the Hind travels at much higher velocity and also has a heavy projectile. Its rate of fire is also considerably higher. This means that it generates more recoil but it is also much more powerful and is very effective against aerial targets as well, whereas the 30mm chaingun on the Apache has less effectiveness against aerial targets and is restricted in range of use.

One of the main drawbacks of the AH 64 30mm gun is that most of its operating mechanism is very exposed; in a sandy/dusty environment it jams quickly. Its low velocity is not helping ether, which contributes, to its limited range and accuracy. Over all not a very good gun design.
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Apache/Images/2952.jpg

And what the hell are you people talking about? Look at the AH 64, it's full of rivets.
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Apache/Images/1074.jpg
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Apache/Images/3949.jpg

[Azide]

Why use rivets anyway, is it because its hard to weld Al?


One of the main drawbacks of the AH 64 30mm gun is that most of its operating mechanism is very exposed; in a sandy/dusty environment it jams quickly. Its low velocity is not helping ether, which contributes, to its limited range and accuracy. Over all not a very good gun design.


After seeing three iraqies turned into mist by one of these i would have to disagree about its effectivness.

[sergey31]

Why use rivets anyway, is it because its hard to weld Al?



After seeing three iraqies turned into mist by one of these i would have to disagree about its effectivness.

Any gun could/would have done the same thing.... After seeing and hearing how often the gun jams I still say it's a poor design.
There was a statement made by Apache gunner saying that the gun jammed 50% of the time after firing not enough rounds.