A Great Photo: Guns and Switzerland

[nognig]

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/594/carolinemigrosp10005079xu.jpg



A militiaman on his way home from mandatory shooting practice, taking care of an errand with his service weapon (SIG 550) slung over his shoulder. The weapon is unloaded and has been checked as so upon leaving the shooting range. Carrying ammunition is strictly forbidden.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

NN

[Sir Zach of R.]

This is sure to Minardiau's panties in a knot...

[RGRBOX]

Yep... a pretty typical site around here... I like it..

[Catch22]

Yea, me too.

Just to think that guy is carrying damn 2850 euros slung across his back... Ehh SIGs

[Regulator75]

Imagine this in America...haha....

[RGRBOX]

Yea, me too.

Just to think that guy is carrying damn 2850 euros slung across his back... Ehh SIGs

Yea... and no ammo...

[RP]

Imagine this in Israel, oh wait...

[dr_newstead]

In all seriousness, (and to settle an argument), this wouldn't be legal in the US would it? In any state?

[RGRBOX]

I just don't know... I remember when in Texas you had the right to carry exposed... but now days, they'd think you were going to rob the place...

[VBHokie]

In all seriousness, (and to settle an argument), this wouldn't be legal in the US would it? In any state?

Depends on the state. Here in Virginia, carrying open is perfectly legal, but you must have a permit in order to conceal it, say in a pocket or inside of a coat. Granted, depending on where you are at, cops have been called just because people get nervous when they see someone openly carrying a gun. But I have been with friends in the western part of Virginia (farms, mountains, and hunters) carrying pistols openly and noone really notices.

[Aerosoul]

Anyone carrying a sidearm or rifle in the manner as in this photo, in a grocery store in the US, would scare the **** out of everyone in it. Just the way it is.

[meni0n]

I don't even want to think what would happen here in Canada.

[AlisterMcRae]

In all seriousness, (and to settle an argument), this wouldn't be legal in the US would it? In any state?

Depends on the state, here in AZ I open carry my HK USP and no one really says anything but I do often get a lot of stares.

One time, I was in the 711 getting some gatorade and paying at the register when this woman says to her husband, "Honey look, he is carrying a pistol!" Her husband goes, "Ohh my god, he is." Then the woman behind her tells them that it is legal in this state, which tells me that they were probably from a socialist snowbird state where something like this would warrant an arrest.

[rister]

The Swiss Militia
by Col. William Flatt


Those who would blithely abandon the greatest safeguard of liberty -- the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear military-style arms -- aren't real strong on consistency or logic. This includes the NRA, with their rhetorical limitation to defend "sporting arms" and "self-defense pistols", but not the "military-style assault rifle".
Aiming to gradually erode the quality of arms we have "permission" to bear -- back to the level of the muzzle-loading flintlock, if not the slingshot -- anti-self defense extremists like Sarah Brady have been disingenuously mewing for decades that they have no objection to arms "for which there is a legitimate sporting use."
Of course, the Constitution says nothing about hunting or skeet shooting. Rather, it says we must be allowed to keep our arms -- no "infringement" whatsoever, no tax, no registration, no "application for permit" -- because the citizens constitute the militia, the most powerful armed force in any free state. The gun-grabbers sneer that this is an out-of-date notion; that a bunch of farmers with deer rifles could hardly stand up to the 82nd Airborne, let alone a full-blown Chinese invasion.
But the logical conclusion of that argument is surely that we should encourage law-abiding citizens to keep machine guns and rocket-launchers in the closet ... not ban AK-47s, with or without pistol grips & bayonet lugs. The victim disarmament extremists (those who would disarm law-abiding rape victims, but not their assailants, who ignore all such laws) ridicule this as a homicidal macho fantasy claiming that no modern nation has ever thrown out a tyrant by the simple expedient of the common folk rising up with their personal rifles, nor does any civilized nation today allow its citizens to keep machine guns at home. Wrong and wrong! Try placing a long-distance call to the American military governor of Vietnam, or the Soviet military governor of Afghanistan, to ask them how easy it was to suppress a nation of armed peasants.


The Swiss Connection
As to the advisability of "allowing" citizen militias to keep modern military arms with them at home, turn to Virginia attorney and Second Amendment expert Stephen P. Halbrook, author of the new book, "Target Switzerland: Swiss Armed Neutrality in World War II", from Sarpeidon Press. Writing in the January 1998 edition of the magazine "Chronicles," Mr. Halbrook points out that "Since the origins of the Swiss Confederation in 1291, it has been the duty of every male Swiss citizen to be armed and to serve in the militia. Today, that arm is an 'assault rifle,' which is issued to every Swiss male and which must be kept in the home. During Germany's Third Reich (1933-1945), that arm was a bolt-action repeating rifle, which was highly effective in the hands of Switzerland's many sharpshooters."
"Americans of the wartime generation were familiar with the fact that brave and armed little Switzerland stood up to Hitler and made him blink.
As a map of Europe in 1942 shows, the Nazis had swallowed up most of
everything on the continent but this tiny speck that Hitler called 'a pimple on the face of Europe.' The Fuhrer boasted that he would be 'the butcher of the Swiss,' but the Wehrmacht was dissuaded by a fully armed populace in the Alpine terrain."
"The Swiss federal shooting festival, which remains the largest rifle competition in the world, was held in Luzern in June 1939. Hitler's takeover of Austria and Czechoslovakia was complete, both countries had been surrendered by tiny political elites who guaranteed that there would be no resistance. Swiss President Philipp Etter spoke at the festival, stressing that something far more serious than sport was the purpose of their activity. His comments demonstrated the connection between national defense and the armed citizen: "'There is probably no other country that, like Switzerland, gives the soldier his weapon to keep in the home. The Swiss always has his rifle at hand. It belongs to the
furnishings of his home...That corresponds to ancient Swiss tradition. As the citizen with his sword steps into the ring in the cantons, which have the Landsgemeinde (government by public meeting), so the Swiss soldier lives in constant companionship with his rifle. He knows what that means. With this rifle, he is liable every hour, if the country calls, to defend his hearth, his home, his family, his birthplace. The weapon is to him a pledge and sign of honor and freedom. The Swiss does not part with his rifle.'"
Mr. Halbrook continues: "On September 1, 1939, Hitler launched World War II by attacking Poland. Within a day or two, Switzerland had about half a million militiamen mobilized out of a population of just over four million. General Henri Cuisan, commander in chief of the Swiss militia, responded with Operations Order No. 2: "'At the border and between the border and army position, the border troops and advance guard persistently delay the advance of the enemy. The garrisons at the border and between the border and the works and positions making up the defensive front continue resistance up to the last cartridge, even if they find themselves completely alone.'"
This astonishing order was the opposite of the policies of the other European countries, which either surrendered to Hitler without a fight or surrendered after a brief resistance. For example, in April 1940, Denmark's king surrendered the country after a meeting with the Nazis and instructed his forces not to resist. Norway resisted, although 'unlike Switzerland' it had no armed populace and was ill prepared for combat.
In response to the invasions of small neutral countries, Switzerland issued its 'directions concerning the conduct of the soldiers not under arms in event of attack.' Intended as a warning to Germany, it was pasted on walls all over the country. It prescribed the reaction against surprise attack and against the fifth column as follows: "'All soldiers and those with them are to attack with ruthlessness parachutists, airborne infantry and saboteurs. Where no officers and noncommissioned officers are present, each soldier acts under exertion of all powers of his own initiative.'"
This command for the individual to act on his own initiative was an ancient Swiss tradition that reflected the political and military leadership's staunch confidence in the ordinary man. This command was possible, of course, only in a society where every man had his rifle at home. "'Under no condition,' the order continued, 'would any surrender be forthcoming, and any pretense of a surrender must be ignored: If by radio, leaflets or other media any information is transmitted doubting the will of the Federal Council or of the Army High Command to resist an attacker. This information must be regarded as the lies of enemy propaganda. Our country will resist aggression with all means in its power and to the death.'"
France collapsed in June, 1940 after only a few weeks of fighting. Paris was taken without a shot being fired. The Nazis promptly proclaimed the death penalty for possession of firearms in France and other occupied countries. In contrast, Cuisan recalled the high duty of the soldier to resist: "'Everywhere, where the order is to hold, it is the duty of conscience of each fighter, even if he depends on himself alone, to fight at his assigned position. The riflemen, if overtaken or surrounded, fight in their position until no more ammunition exists. Then cold steel is next... The machine gunners, the cannoneers of heavy weapons, the artillerymen, if in the bunker or on the field, do not abandon or destroy their weapons, or allow the enemy to seize them. Then the crews fight
further like riflemen. As long as a man has another cartridge or hand weapons to use, he does not yield...'"
Even old men and children were issued armbands, identifying them as Ortswehren (local defense) so they could not be shot as partisans under international law, when the time came for them to shoot any invader they saw. Hitler never invaded Switzerland. Would you have? Nor has any dictator -- military or otherwise -- ever attempted to rule the Swiss cantons by "executive
order" ... like the one Bill Clinton haughtily signed to outlaw the import of AK-47 variants which his own ATF had found to be in full compliance with current law.
"There was no holocaust on Swiss soil," Mr. Halbrook concludes. "Swiss Jews served in the militia side by side with their fellow citizens, and kept rifles in their homes just like everyone else. It is hard to believe that there could have been a holocaust had the Jews of Germany, Poland, and France had the same
right."
So what is the solution to protecting individual freedom in post-9/11 America? Simple. Join a constitutional citizen's volunteer militia and buy yourself a military type assault rifle. When free and law-abiding people combine under arms for the purpose of self-defense, they constitute a force far more considerable than any select body of professional soldiers. This is the essence of the Second Amendment: to maintain a state of freedom.


"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution Proposed By the Late Convention (1787).

[CFD Ambos]

Soooooo true ! Great, great post !

Can someone imagine this picture happening in France ? In Norway ?
What about New York ? (There I got strange stares just because I was asking the clerc in a shop for a double-cutting-edge-knife....)

[Icarus1]

The best thing I ever saw was a 15 year old girl on a skateboard which was on the way to the "Jungschützenkurs" (Youth Shooting Course... or so) with a SIG550 on the back (which was almost as tall as she was). Sadly I couldn't take a photo.

Switzerland owns very much fine marksmen, because the 300m shooting is tradition and practiced often. Also I think swiss people have a very realistic view of weapons because we have everybody, who trained on the weapon and learned the safety rules, with a gun at home. Of course a few idiots with two left hands get their gun at home too. But I think the number uf gun-violence and especially violence with the issued assault rifle at home speaks for itself.

Switzerland has in fact one of the most liberate gun-laws worldwide. You can buy weapons from private people with a simple from the internet printed formula. Before 1999 it was so easy, that you could go into a shop and buy Assault Rifles, Silencers, Pistols, special Ammo (like Safety Slug, Hollowpoint, Subsonic etc etc) by only showing your swiss ID. But we nearly didn't have any gun accidents. To explain this is hard. Starting points are maybe the very cool temper of the swiss (the "neutrality" of the land projects on the people, maybe), our tradition of gun carrying (and not using them, like in the wild west) and our respect of the weapons gained in the recruit School.

My point of view. I like the system of the personal weapon. Other opinions?

[nognig]

Switzerland has in fact one of the most liberate gun-laws worldwide. You can buy weapons from private people with a simple from the internet printed formula. Before 1999 it was so easy, that you could go into a shop and buy Assault Rifles, Silencers, Pistols, special Ammo (like Safety Slug, Hollowpoint, Subsonic etc etc) by only showing your swiss ID.

What changed in 1999?

NN