Laos forgotten war in pictures

[mustamato]

From "The Hmong, the secret war in Laos continues" on Historiska Museet
in Sweden, (yes that same one that had that "anti-semitic" piece of art).
All photos taken by Philip Blenkinsop. This poor people are considered as
"terrorists" by the government in Laos, and to my knowledge also by US.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_1.jpg
Hmong-squad that met Philip, and took him on to a journey
to the mountains.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_12.jpg
Thao Ut, the only man in the squad smoking

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_24.jpg
Thao Ut and the squads commander crossing a river. Dangerous
because they are so exposed while doing it. Governemt forces
has ambushed them several times in positions like this one

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_32.jpg
We were the first white men they had seen in 22 years since
the americans left. They believed that we came to save them.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_53.jpg
No one smiled.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_11.jpg
Most of the people had some kind of damage. Mines are usual.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_50.jpg
Father with his children. Philip never asked where their mother was,
because she was probably dead. Usually he never takes photos of
children because "it´s not for real", but here the children seemed to
be so "old".

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_60.jpg
Shrapnel wounds.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_66.jpg
Hong Pao Yang, 71. He had fought with french, and with the CIA in
the 60´s he said. The children are waiting for him to die so that they
can take his weapon.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_69.jpg
In the camp you see fathers carrying their children all the time, in
case something would happen.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_70.jpg
Li Fong, 25. We gave him some first aid equipment. He had never
seen anything like that before. His wound never healed so he had
constant pains. He got his rifle from his dead father.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong.jpg
Tchor Neung Yah, 16. Communist forces that came in helicopter
did this to him.

[Roger Rabbit]

Have you got any more info on this secret war? When were the pictures taken?

I wasn't even aware that Laos still existed :|

[mustamato]

Have you got any more info on this secret war? When were the pictures taken?

I wasn't even aware that Laos still existed :|

The pictures were taken in January 2003 and is a part of the exhibition
"Making differences" that had that funny piece of art that we all probably
remember.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/70/53/snovitpuff.jpg

But I personally don´t know **** about Laos or that war. But good old
CIA knows everything as usual:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/maps/la-map.gif
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/la.html

[Armour recon]

Fantastic topic!

[Marmot1]

Well Hmongs were US allies during Vietnam war and most of equipment and training was delivered by US but when US withdrawn and lost interest in indochina they were left on their own... they live in mountains and for last 22 years they fight with Laothan comunist govrment... most of euipment and ammo is left over from vietnam war or captured on enemy they are almost exterminated from around 20000 in 1979 only around 1500 are alive becouse Laothan army regularly "clear" the area wher they live with napalm etc. some of them were evacuated to US when americans withdrawn but nobody takes care of remaining...

Hmongs are ethnic chinese but they live in indochina for AFAIK more than 200 years.

mustamao - it is interesting if they are considered as terrorists, since they were trained and equiped by the US and for last 30 years they fight for the same cause - against comunism, so if US consider them as terrorist that means US betrayed them...

BTW most of them (70% or more) have some sort of wounds mines napalm shrapnel gunwounds those photos are from the bigger serie of photos

You would probably ask why thy do not surrender??? well they simply do not trust laotan goverment becouse those who surrendered never had a chane to tell to the remaining how they live...you know why. They are begging US for last 20 years to take them away they do not want to fight more they just want to survive... since they are hunted like animals.

There is big Hmong minority in US c.a 200000 also there is a lot of hmongs in othere countries in the region but in Laos they are exterminated...


The secret War (Laos)
http://www.cvmuseum.com/Hmong3.html

interesting site Laothan ppl on exile in USA
http://www.laonationalistreformparty.com/
nice slideshow about hmong history and culture
http://www.gvhc.org/cultural/Presentations/CC%20Hmong%20Health/CC%20Hmong%20Health/sld001.htm

[Truthsayer]

Illicit drugs:
world's third-largest illicit opium producer (estimated cultivation in 2002 - 23,200 hectares, a 5% increase over 2001; estimated potential production in 2002 - 180 metric tons, a 10% decrease from 2001); potential heroin producer; transshipment point for heroin and methamphetamine produced in Burma; illicit producer of cannabis; growing methamphetamine abuse problem

Wasn't there a war on drugs...where is the US? ;)


Yet another country that is suffering under its communist regime...

[mustamato]

mustamao - it is interesting if they are considered as terrorists, since they were trained and equiped by the US and for last 30 years they fight for the same cause - against comunism, so if US consider them as terrorist that means US betrayed them...


Well, maybe they are not usefull anymore.

Thanks for the links by the way.

http://www.gvhc.org/cultural/Presentations/CC%20Hmong%20Health/CC%20Hmong%20Health/img020.GIF

:)

[thatguy96]

Are the Hmong in Laos in any way related to the ethnic Chinese Nung minority in Vietnam? It seems that these ethnic Chinese minorities exist all over South East Asia, and are almost universally discriminated against. They are often refered to as the "******s" of South East Asia (and I of course acknowledge the derogatory nature of this term and it will probably be censored by the forum software anyhow; with no direct translations for such ethnic and racial slurs, one finds the most sutible translations within ones own language)

[Marmot1]

Are the Hmong in Laos in any way related to the ethnic Chinese Nung minority in Vietnam? It seems that these ethnic Chinese minorities exist all over South East Asia, and are almost universally discriminated against. They are often refered to as the "******s" of South East Asia (and I of course acknowledge the derogatory nature of this term and it will probably be censored by the forum software anyhow; with no direct translations for such ethnic and racial slurs, one finds the most sutible translations within ones own language)
Well chinese minorites are all over sout east asia singapore, thailand, kambodia , vietnam, laos, burma ut i dont thin that tey are generally discriminated in some countries like singapour they are quite succesful...

Also there is hindus (hindi?) minority that spread all over the region... usualy traders like chinese but they also do variety of other jobs

Hmongs are discriminated and hunted down becouse they are pro american and goverment is comunist...

[Merik]

Interesting that they use the old M-16A1, I wonder how they keep them in working order if they dont have any cleaning kits. Notice on the picture with them crossing the river the person in the foreground has a M-79 Blooper with a pot load of rounds.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

I had a friend here in the US that was Hmong...he never spoke of the US betraying his people or held bitter feelings. He did however believe that the US should be supporting those people that supported them in their time of need. I completely agree with him.

[HumanShield]

wow, those pictures are a big wake up call...

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Ya those r some great pictures. Its amazing what goes on in this world without ya knowing eh?

Keep up the good work woot

[Skullknight]

A Christian missionary was recently smuggling equipment to the Hmong from Thailand. At least one man cared...

[Herrmannek]

A Christian missionary was recently smuggling equipment to the Hmong from Thailand. At least one man cared...
Do you know his nationality?

[mustamato]

http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/lay/laos/findex.htm


Hmong Resistance in Laos

A small-scale ethnic insurgency began in Laos after the establishment of the Laotian People's Democratic Republic (LPDR) by the Pathet Lao in 1975. This insurgency never seriously threatened the regime, but it proved troublesome because the insurgents committed sabotage, blew up bridges, and threatened transport and communications. The great majority of insurgents were Hmong, led by ex-soldiers from United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) - supported units who fought against Pathet Lao and North Vietnamese troops in the 1960s. Hmong groups, most of them associated with the former Royal Laotian government, drew recruits and support from Hmong refugee camps in Thailand and operated primarily from bases in Thailand with the cooperation of local Thai military officers. The Hmong also gained support from China for their insurgency because of the presence of some 45,000 Vietnamese troops in Laos during this period -- which was vehemently opposed by the Chinese. ( In 1982, an anti-Pathet Lao "Royal Lao Democratic Government," backed by China, was set up in southern Laos.)

In the early 1980s, Hmong insurgents claimed that the Lao People's Army was using lethal chemical agents against them. The Hmong refugees in Thailand often referred to the chemical agents as "poisons from above;" foreign journalists used the term "yellow rain." The LPDR government vehemently denied these charges. The United States Department of State noted in 1992 that "considerable investigative efforts in recent years have revealed no evidence of chemical weapons use" in the post-1983 period.

In 1988, about half of the Vietnamese troops in Laos were withdrawn, and China ceased to support anti-Pathet Lao resistance. From their sanctuaries in Thailand, the Hmong continued their armed resistance efforts against the communists throughout the 1980s and into the 1990s. Many thousands of other Hmong, however, had sided with the Pathet Lao and were living peacefully in Laos, particularly in the northeastern provinces; others went to Thailand and then the United States.

Discussions between Laos and Thailand over guerrilla attacks led first to a suspension in hostilities in 1990 and then to the withdrawal of Thai troops from the border area in 1991. As relations between Thailand and Laos continued to improve in the 1990s, support for this insurgent activity declined. Resistance spokesmen claimed that their principal source of funds for weapons and supplies came from Laotian expatriate communities overseas, including the 180,000 Laotians in the United States.

As a result of decades of warfare, dislocation, and the military campaign mounted against them by Vietnamese and LPDR forces in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Hmong population was reduced to approximately 200,000 in Laos and about the same number in Thailand in the early 1990s. By 1992, cross-border Hmong raids into Laos were reduced to little more than banditry -- a casualty of wavering Thai support and apathy among the Hmong themselves. Continued participation of Hmong in resistance activities posed no threat to the stability of the government of Laos, but it did complicate the repatriation process for the estimated 60,000 Laotian refugees in Thai camps.

[Skullknight]

A Christian missionary was recently smuggling equipment to the Hmong from Thailand. At least one man cared...
Do you know his nationality?An American from Minnesota I believe. Also, Vietnamese missionaries regularly try to help them but it's really a hopeless situation.

[Marmot1]

I had a friend here in the US that was Hmong...he never spoke of the US betraying his people or held bitter feelings. He did however believe that the US should be supporting those people that supported them in their time of need. I completely agree with him.

Those photos were posted in polish newspeper couple a months ago... those and even more ant guy who took those photos had spoken with hmongs theyu said that their ammo and guns comes mainly from vietnam war era caches burried in forest and that they have only ammo for around 45 min of fight so the families can escape to jungle... also to clarify this group of hmongs on picture live in center of laos, far away from border and they are not connected to those groups near thai border... their commander is only one who is able to read and write and he is without one hand... around 80% of childerens are orphans as far as I remember... sorry i have seen a lot of bodies and wounds since I specialize in criminal medicine but when i had seen all those ppl and I read their story I started to cry... realy

[mustamato]

Those photos were posted in polish newspeper couple a months ago... those and even more ant guy who took those photos had spoken with hmongs theyu said that their ammo and guns comes mainly from vietnam war era caches burried in forest and that they have only ammo for around 45 min of fight so the families can escape to jungle... also to clarify this group of hmongs on picture live in center of laos, far away from border and they are not connected to those groups near thai border... their commander is only one who is able to read and write and he is without one hand... around 80% of childerens are orphans as far as I remember... sorry i have seen a lot of bodies and wounds since I specialize in criminal medicine but when i had seen all those ppl and I read their story I started to cry... realy

Yeah. It´s pure misery. It´s very sad.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_33.jpg
Bang Yang, 14 years old. The girl in the middle, she never stopped
crying during the time we were there. She was 14 years old and had
a child, and her husband that was 15 had been killed a couple of days
before the birth. She was 14 and a orphanage, a single mother and a
widow. I´m afraid that she might be dead today. In a Amnesty report
a couple of months ago she was listed as missing.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_58.jpg
Ling Fo, 25. He lived in a area two hours away, he came because he´d
hourd that we were there, and he wanted to speak with us.

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_65.jpg
She was 15 years old and a mother. She looked after two orphanages
as well. Her husband was 21 and one of the more influencal in the
movement

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/22/56/05/hmong_73b.jpg
He just fell down in front of us. Nobody there could show any sign
of hope. They had given up.

[perdurabo]

the last pic is prabably the sadest pic i've ever seen :(
they have no hope :( i'm sad.

[DizBukHaPeter]

As a laotion-american i find this situation very moving. Every laotion wishes that someday we may return to our homeland without the rule onf the communist goverment. My father fought against the pathet-lao and then had to flee into a thai refugee camp before comming to america. I especially am effeected by these photos because they represent the pain my fellow people are feeling. Also, the last time i recall, christianity and catholicism is illegal in laos, i'm not too sure, but i heard reports from my church that missionaries in laos were being rounded up and thrown into prison.

[Dennis G]

mustamato

very powerful photos

[mustamato]

With Google I found some more pictures taken by Philip Blenkinsop in Laos.

http://www.norran.se/bild_arkiv/20/00000395320.jpg
Boun Si was injured 1991. 2002 his wife and children was killed by
government soldiers

http://www.makingdifferences.com/site/bilder/event/hmong_04.gif

http://www.makingdifferences.com/site/bilder/event/hmong_01.gif

http://www.makingdifferences.com/site/bilder/event/hmong_03.gif

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/suplementos/imagenes/2003/11/03/1067865146_p.jpg

Here is a good article about the conflict and the genocide on the Hmong:

http://www.nnn.se/n-model/foreign/hmong.htm

Here all the pictures Blenkinsop took in Laos can be seen:

http://www.factfinding.org/Gallery/page24.html

[Marmot1]

the last pic is prabably the sadest pic i've ever seen :(
they have no hope :( i'm sad.
yep...
http://www.factfinding.org/Gallery/img71.jpg


Youa Vue Thao, a Hmong immigrant from Green Bay, Wis., protests across the street from the Laotian Embassy in Washington, Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003. Thao's son is leader of 2,000 internally displaced Hmong in Laos, and the demonstration was to protest the government's war of attrition against Hmong rebels. In recent months, the rebels have been encircled by Laotian troops, prompting Amnesty International to urge Laos not to use starvation as a weapon. (AP Photo/Gerald Herbert)

[usa320]

THank you. This shows how bad communism is, and how far people are willing to go to end it.

Not nice pictures, but something the world needs to see.

[Marmot1]

http://www.factfinding.org/Gallery/page17.html

here on the right bottom is their lider (I mentioned him above he is without hand, the only one who know how to write and read and count...)

he display ammo used by laothan army against them....

[Marmot1]

THank you. This shows how bad communism is, and how far people are willing to go to end it.

Not nice pictures, but something the world needs to see.

That also show how US use ppl and abondon them when they are no more useful...

[mustamato]

THank you. This shows how bad communism is, and how far people are willing to go to end it.

Not nice pictures, but something the world needs to see.

And if you would actually have read anything on this thread and also on
the links you would quite soon seen that the capitalistic US used them as
long as they thought they were usefull, and then just left them to die.
Them being on the US side back in the days and then just left on their
own when US withdrew is one contributing factor that they are slaughtered
now. I don´t say that it´s the US fault, but poiting out "communism" as
the reason is so lame.

[Kenshin]

Yeah,.. the last pic is very sad.. I pity those people.. Hope the UN is aware of such and help them..

I think these people are only branded as terrorist by the Laost goverment and not by the US. Since the fought the communist at the start, they are being seeked for revenge as they re aligned with the US.

Dont u think its time the US do something on this.. ??

[tony6]

Yeah-I've seen those photos and read that article also.
Very sad...

[Skullknight]

What do you mean the United States left them to die? They airlifted 3,000 of them out of the country during a 2 day cease-fire; that's trying pretty hard to help people. The current state of the Hmong has nothing to do with the United States, and everything to do with the merciless genocide of them by communists from North Vietnam and Laos.

[Marmot1]

What do you mean the United States left them to die? They airlifted 3,000 of them out of the country during a 2 day cease-fire; that's trying pretty hard to help people. The current state of the Hmong has nothing to do with the United States, and everything to do with the merciless genocide of them by communists from North Vietnam and Laos.
Well US recruited them armed thema and suplied them thay duty was just to fight and die and then US left them, of course some were evacuated but thousands were left without support without ammo,and now without hope, how would you feel when you are in combat zone and one day everyone withdraw and you are left alone only with that what you have with you when you count on support... they were tool in US hands when they were needed they were used, when US lost interest in region simply left them... my point is that if you start something finish it and do not run away in the middle of doing it, just becouse you are not interested in it any longer.... that's not a videogame where you can "pause" or "save" that are real ppl they were allies and if you treat allies like this.... I know that it's politic but I just think it's unfair to treat ppl who fight on your side like this...

[mustamato]

Well US recruited them armed thema and suplied them thay duty was just to fight and die and then US left them, of course some were evacuated but thousands were left without support without ammo,and now without hope, how would you feel when you are in combat zone and one day everyone withdraw and you are left alone only with that what you have with you when you count on support... they were tool in US hands when they were needed they were used, when US lost interest in region simply left them... my point is that if you start something finish it and do not run away in the middle of doing it, just becouse you are not interested in it any longer.... that's not a videogame where you can "pause" or "save" that are real ppl they were allies and if you treat allies like this.... I know that it's politic but I just think it's unfair to treat ppl who fight on your side like this...

It´s a warning, that´s what it is.

If I were a Iraqi I would never work with the occupants. The americans,
the brits, the poles, oh and the japanese, and the rest of them are all
a lonoog way from home. They will not stay forever in Iraq. And I
wouldn´t want to be a collaborator when that day comes. The Hmong
and the Iraqis are not really comparable of course. But lets say, small
groups co-operating with the occupants within Iraq might be. As in
example the kurds. If the americans leave like they left Indochina these
groups will not have a fun time ahead when it´s payback time.

[HumanShield]

powerful indeed :|

[Marmot1]

It´s a warning, that´s what it is.

If I were a Iraqi I would never work with the occupants. The americans,
the brits, the poles, oh and the japanese, and the rest of them are all
a lonoog way from home. They will not stay forever in Iraq. And I
wouldn´t want to be a collaborator when that day comes. The Hmong
and the Iraqis are not really comparable of course. But lets say, small
groups co-operating with the occupants within Iraq might be. As in
example the kurds. If the americans leave like they left Indochina these
groups will not have a fun time ahead when it´s payback time.

well actualy there is example in iraq.... remember ****e muslims who were encouraged by US to start uprising against saddam in 1991??? they were slaughtered... and US eved didn't shot down iraqi gunship helicopters that flyed in south NO FLY zone... they started to shot them down after everything was over... and now a lot of mas graves from that uprising are exposed... recently couple of them were exposed in polish ocupation zone in iraq elders womans kids all masacred in 1991.

[arsx]

Indeed these are powerful pics, and I'm glad that they are being shared and brought to the world's attention. What is even more distrubing are the video clips on FactFinding.Org. :petting:

What angers me the most is the use of the label "terrorists". How is defending oneself from extermination considered an act of terrorism? These people are not committing attrocties to innocent people, but rather fighting for their right to live. Terrorism? Pfff...

Being an individual of Hmong descent, having lost many family members during the Vietnam era, being secretly smuggled through the jungle of Laos into Thailand by my parents, having my grandmother murdered along some roadside like some animal by the Communist soldiers, and hearing all the war stories my father told me when he and his men fought the Communist forces...this is a very personal subject to me. I only pray and hope that may they someday be saved.

[OldRecon]

Indeed these are powerful pics, and I'm glad that they are being shared and brought to the world's attention. What is even more distrubing are the video clips on FactFinding.Org. :petting:

What angers me the most is the use of the label "terrorists". How is defending oneself from extermination considered an act of terrorism? These people are not committing attrocties to innocent people, but rather fighting for their right to live. Terrorism? Pfff...

Being an individual of Hmong descent, having lost many family members during the Vietnam era, being secretly smuggled through the jungle of Laos into Thailand by my parents, having my grandmother murdered along some roadside like some animal by the Communist soldiers, and hearing all the war stories my father told me when he and his men fought the Communist forces...this is a very personal subject to me. I only pray and hope that may they someday be saved.

Not that it matters, but I see someone here terms the Hmongs as descendants of the Chinese.
From my knowledge the Hmong are one of several "tribes"/people, along with the Rhade, Meo, Sedang ... etc., fathomed in the West by the term "Montagnards" (guess that is French for "hill people"?) that once sometime long ago migrated from the Indian subcontinent into Laos and the hilly parts of Vietnam bordering Laos.
I guess that when the Hmongs are inadverently labeled here as "Chinese", they are mistaken for the Nungs who where descendants of the Chinese Black Flag pirates that ravaged much of the Northern part of Vietnam during the later half of the 19th century. Amongst others clashing with the French colonial forces at Tuyen Quang.
The Nungs like the various tribes of Montagnards also worked with US Special Forces and the MACV-SOG.
(On another note, another good topic by Mustamato this one :|)