the decision of a meager paycheck....

[ragingbullrm]

I know this topic is not of military cause, but the reason I am posting it, is because I believe this board has some serious gun enthusiasts that know what they are talking about..... anyways......I am interested in purchasing a handgun, but only have 700 or so dollars saved up from my job, now I know that I can get a good pistol for that, and really want to buy one. I have narrowed the search down to a Colt 1911 government model along with their 1991 model, a Beretta 92 or 96, not sure which, or a Browning hi-power. I have researched these models and they seem reliable, but I'm just not sure....I plan on using the weapon for target range shooting, home defense, and just generally the only pistol I plan on owning. If any of you guys could give me a hand, I would appreciate it....I am looking for reliability, since this is the only gun I will be buying, accuracy (not competetion, just good), and durablitly....thanks.. :) any other firearm suggestions are welcomed as well..

[Chops]

I'd personally go with the Hi Power but I'm an old cretin ;)
The HP is certainly reliable, add some decent hi vis sights and away you go. You may need to get older examples throated to ensure feed reliability with hollowpoints or Glasers but more recent production runs should be fine.

Reliable, accurate, big enough mag (with extended mags available) and a bloody good fun pistol to shoot.

My second choice would be a 1911 pattern in .45. No idea how much a decent Kimber, Wilson or Para Ordnance .45 costs in USD but lovely pistols. The Para P14 features an enlarged 14 round mag which may help if you're worried about the limited mag capacity of the .45.

Just my two bobs worth

Rgds

Chops

[kyote]

Hi, Out of the ones you listed I'd get one of the Berettas. They now make them with a built in rail for a light, good for home defence. :|

[Smoothie104]

Glock makes a very reliable pistol, and while its very "fashionable" to own one, that may turn some people off.

You can get a Glock in .45 the cops in my town have them. If you want a reliable polymer, with the addition of a grip safety like the 1911, check out the Springfield XD, it was named handgun of the year for 2003.

do a search on it with google, type in "springfield xd review"

It beats the glock in several areas, as far as safety with the addition of the grip safety, and an improved design, with fully supported chamber.
It has a loaded chamber indicator, and a cocked indicator that are identifiable by feel, and therefore in complete darkness.

You can get it in 9mm .357SIG or .40S&W 3 inch, 4 inch or 5 inch, all have a light rail too. You can get the .40 or the 9mm with a ported barrel.

Plus it comes in all Black, a Silver Bi-tone or OD Green!

The shops around here want $500.00 for them, but you can find them on line for $425 or less, but with shipping and FFL transfer its going to be around $460.00 Im pretty sure the local shops will match it. Comes with a life time warranty. With the money saved, you can buy a ton of ammo, a holster etc. The Gun will take Hi Capacity Baretta Mag's with a slight modification, and the mags can still be used in the original gun. It will take any sights that will fit a SIG too.

www.springfieldarmory.com
www.hs2000talk.com
www.sportshooter.com click on guns.

[gunner]

if you want relieability and low cost get a glock. the 1911 is a design that is 90 years old. newer pistols are more reliable and less complicated. the high power is a good weapon but i prefer a heavier round. a 9mm is actually a .35 caliber. i notice you dont want a .38, so why go for something smaller? i prefer .45 and .40. you can get glocks in both, and there is a version of the beretta in .40,

[ragingbullrm]

thanks guys, I have looked at some of the glocks they offer, and I am quite partial to the 10mm. It seems like the best of both worlds, high speed bullet and a big impact. I might just go ahead and buy one

[FallenAngel]

cool....10mm Glocks is standard issue at the FBI i think. Good choice...

although the Springfield Xtreme Duty pistol seems to be the best out of the choices.

'Course, if it was me, I'd save up a bit more and get me a USP .45 by HK :D

[Mal3]

if you want relieability and low cost get a glock. the 1911 is a design that is 90 years old. newer pistols are more reliable and less complicated. the high power is a good weapon but i prefer a heavier round. a 9mm is actually a .35 caliber. i notice you dont want a .38, so why go for something smaller? i prefer .45 and .40. you can get glocks in both, and there is a version of the beretta in .40,

A 9mm is .355 caliber and a .38 Special (and the .357 Magnum) is .357. Not a whole lot of difference.

I have small hands and have held a HiPower. It fits perfectly in my hand, has an operating system I'd like, is fairly compact, packs enough rounds of enough power. Of course I've only shot a few pistols and none extensively.

The Glock really didn't agree with my hand and I don't like the trigger pull. These are probably very good pistols, but if there's one modern design I'm interested in then it's the SIG P220 series pistols. Superbly reliable, superbly accurate also from what I hear and have an ergonomic layout. I wish I could get my hands on one. If they fit my hand I'd choose them over a HiPower or CZ-75 series if I had to depend on one for defence.

They also come in a range of calibers, but since I've never shot anything larger than a 9mmP except for a .44 Magnum I won't venture as what caliber I'd go for and I really don't worry too much about caliber. Use decent bullets and get proficient with the gun. That matters far more than caliber.

One thing, I think the Beretta is pretty big, but if it fits your hand and you're comfortable with the operating system, then it should fit your bill very well, whether as a 9 or .40. They seem to have an reputation for reliability and if what I hear is correct then they're pretty accurate. Extras for them should be commonplace which should sweeten the deal. No problem getting better sights or flashlights, etc. Is it superstition that the .40 is usually less accurate than the 9mm?

But of course, the HiPower is like made for my hand, is one of THE most important combat pistols of the century, has great history and is so beautiful. Of course, that won't matter none when the chips are down ;)

[Duke]

Ragingbull the way you framed your question appears that you have little shooting/gun experience. The first thing a potential buyer must ask is what will I do with a gun, my needs. As you have said you want a gun for plinking and home defense. Im going to give some real advice on that subject, but I'm sorry many of the posts here skips the main issues in first time buyers and many of the statements are sheer bull****.
Here's my advice
A gun is used to save lives, possibly yours and loved ones. With that said only buy a manufacturer with an incredible reputation or the most expensive gun you can afford. Dont be cheap with ammo either. Dont skimp on your life. Ammo can get expensive so dont fall for inferior rounds at a range. When at a range you can only use bullets bought at the range, buy the best. Inferior rounds burn funny in the barrel and often quality control for poor rounds can be too be a little too small or big for your caliber and damage the barrel. Stick with Federal/winchester/Remington
Two great firearms are: for revolvers Smith and Wesson comes to mind and pistols Sigs. Some manufacturers with past poor quality control are Glocks and Rugers, although both in recent years have improved their reputation. Glocks in the early amd mid nineties had incredible jamming problems. These problems are no longer rampant, but the reputation remains for those who know the gun.
Your first handgun should be one to master handguns. Let me explain this. Going out and getting 45 for a novice is a big no no. The grip is relatively large and kickback nothing to joke about. (Seriously, Ive seen experienced shooters use gloves.) You need training wheels. When learning handguns you must master trigger squeeze and recoil/target acquisition thats difficult with a 45. If your hellbent for a 45, then find a field or range and shoot that mother. Then shoot some more. Watch the slide. Often times due to the grip size a novice shooter will choke the grip. By choking the grip, some people have been deeply cut by the recoil of the slide literally lacerating the area between the index finger and thumb. I would say shoot until blisters form just below your thumb, thats a good indicator of shooting too much--just to understand pistols.
My final piece of advice is buy a 357 Mag, dont get the 357 Sig. Its perfect for a novice. A 357 mag can shoot a 38 special-a perfect round to learn handguns. Then you can graduate to the 357. For home protection, nothing beats a 357 mag. Remember this point, everyone who understands guns will agree. With increasing complexity of mechanics, the chances for breakdown increase. That is a fact, no matter how clean your gun is there's a chance it may not shoot. That's why for home defense so many advocate the revolver. Its less complicated and more durable than a pistol and less of a chance to jam. If the gun jams, pull the trigger again and you got one inthe chamber. For a pistol you got to take in apart or clear the chamber to fire it again. A bad situation in an already bad situation.

[Mal3]

And that pretty much explained to me why revolvers are around.

[Duke]

Mal3 your giving bad gun advice, which is incredibly irresponsible. There's a huge difference between a 9mm/38 special and a 357. A HUGE DIFFERENCE. These bullets of course have close calibers, but you dont point out the LOAD. There's a saying in the gun world, "ITS ALL ABOUT THE LOAD!" Ill explain this in basic terms. Bullets come in difference sizes or calibers, however, within the cartridge or casing the amout of gunpowder and type can vary. When a bullet is a magnum that means theres a whole hellauva lot of gunpowder. The powder is a determining factor in the "force" of a firearm.
Let me frame this so you can understand. For example, a 22 short has 65 joules (amount of energy) when comes out of a barrel. In a case study I learned a police officer was shot six times in the face at point blank range with a 22 short. The bullets were deflect off the teeth and cheekbones of the officer. He lived. A 38 special has the force of 328 joules, which easily at point blank can pentrate the skull. A 357 mag at point blank gives off 791 joules. Thats nearly double when compared to a 9mm parabellum at 476, a 45 ACP at 450 and many of the 308s.
A big difference

[Mal3]

What I was pointing out exactly was that it's not enough to look at bullet sizes. If that was written in a way that's easily misunderstood, then I apologize.

I was writing in responce to gunner who wrote:

a 9mm is actually a .35 caliber. i notice you dont want a .38, so why go for something smaller?

As you yourself pointed out the 9mmP is more powerful than the .38 Special. There were no other conclusions supposed to be drawn from my writing other than the fact that the diameter difference between a .38 and a 9mm is tiny and immaterial.

There is a huge difference in performance, but in diameter, as I pointed out, there is virtually none.

And seriously, I have no interest in starting or participating in a big bore vs. anything other debate.

[Duke]

Understood, mal3. If your hands are small in regards to trigger pull, I know S & W manufacters a short trigger pull, Im sure others do also. They are swept back for smaller hands. That was back in 95 and in 98 I bought my mom a S & W revolver and asked about the short trigger and he told me that many dealers dont carry them. Look around you may find them on Ebay

[Mal3]

Well, getting a permit for a handgun around here is no easy task. I have little interest in airgun shooting and no interest in spending money at it. Not wanting to go the approved path towards handgun ownership I have abandoned shooting as a hobby, since I'm mostly interested in handguns and military rifles.

I do know SIG offered a short trigger but I heard it felt heavier than standard so it would be a mixed blessing. Getting a custom grip works wonders for fixing a medium frame S&W for me. With the old style skinny grips I have a hard time firing it double action, but with good grips it becomes tolerable.

[Smoothie104]

Duke is right about not being cheap, this is your life you dealing with. As far as reliability goes with modern pistol designs, my rule of thumb has always been:

Find some premium ammo that you like. Put 300 rounds of it through the gun, if you can do so with no malfunctions, you have 99.7% reliability.

Not that Im touting Glock as the be all end all, But I have over 1000 rounds through my .40 with no malfunction. There are bad examples in every make, but I am very happy with mine.

I do believe the Glock is now the #1 brand in use by Law Enforcement Agencies, makes me think they've fixed the problems.

The revolver design is tried and true, and Duke is spot on as to why it makes good home defense. I prefer my 99.9+% Glock with 10 rounds, and ease of reload. But then again its what Im used to

Not sure if there are any ranges in your area, they may have rentals you can try.

When I read your post, It never occured to me that this was your 1st gun, I think the .45 is a real handfull for your first gun.


Duke is right, whatever you get, shoot it, shoot it, and then shoot it some more.

[SFontaine]

XD.

Amazing handgun.

[ragingbullrm]

I really don't know if it matters, but I am 220 pounds and have great muscle strength, I own a 30.06 rifle, so I can handle some kick, this is indeed my first pistol, and I always imagined Sig Sauer's to be expensive. I have read that they are incredibly reliable, but don't know if I can afford it. I am hearing mixed reviews of Glocks, I have seen them go through torture tests in their magazine ads, but what would I know. It seems that the perfect gun might be a Beretta 92, because I am most definatly looking for a full size gun that is made out of tough material, and has been proven reliable. Revolvers are nice, but I am also looking for more capacity than 6. I think if I could afford a used one, I would love to shoot one of those Colt Delta Elite 10mm's, only they seem to be going for upward of a thousand dollars. Thanks again guys, you are helping me out a lot.

[FallenAngel]

Ever think about IMI Jericho or Desert Eagle (though 50 AE might be a bit much :D )?

HK's series of USPs are also excellent weapons by all accounts.

Just trying to broaden the ol' horizons.